Clay Chat for summer 2007!

[ldyjocelyn]

Just quickly adding that I totally agree with couchie on the People article! It actually served two purposes -- it DID mention the album, but it talked about the gnats in an indirect way too.

Only 2 minutes left -- want to go on with the next topic?

[Couch Tomato]

This wasn't 2003 where Roger probably just sat by the phone and fielded offers. Clay was no longer it guy. People don't stay it guys forever if their last name isn't Hilton. And really he was in no position to demand anything. I know I would have loved to have seen him everywhere under the sun. But you can't just write it out and say..let it be done. It's not that easy. And PR folks don't just get to submit the articles and have them run as is, not if people feel there is a story they want. Mags like Blender were so desperate to break something they went to the fans.

[Claygasm]

Question 1:

1) ATDW and the PR campaign -- what worked? What didn't? What else could have been done?

Thunderstorm has passed for now!

I have always thought ATDW was a CD meant to be released at a time when most of the discussion would be about the crap so my view may be a bit different.

Other than radio play, I thought he received standard treatment. Big spread in People - he most widely read entertainment magazine. What was it, 3 days on GMA. Appearances with couch time on Leno. He was on LKL. He was on the Insider and ET. He was on Tyra,. Megan Mullally, The VIew, R & K (although that took on a life of its own...). And of course, Jimmy Kimmel complete with a mini-concert. Did I forget anything> That's a lot more than most get!

As for radio, I think radio is resistent to play Clay for for some reason. But IMO I think they HAD to pick a cover for the first single. After all, this was an album of primarily covers. I just think they picked the wrong cover. I think "Broken Wings" would have been great, for example. But I still have my doubts he would get radio play.

[Couch Tomato]

Just quickly adding that I totally agree with couchie on the People article! It actually served two purposes -- it DID mention the album, but it talked about the gnats in an indirect way too.

Only 2 minutes left -- want to go on with the next topic?

maybe five more minutes?

[Ansamcw]

Why is the question...

That's a VERY good question. Honestly, it probably was because of the gnats -- since so much of the publicity was about that instead of the album. Sad, but true.

I agree Ansa that the timing of the album wasn't great, but I don't think it was bad either. It just didn't capitalize on the buzz of AI5. I remember people thinking it was sad that he didn't have any "product" after that appearance -- but ITA that Clay was doing things his way (thanks to Frank Sinatra. *g*) I also suspect that Clay knew that he wasn't going to be capitalizing on that appearance by doing the album on his terms, but it was a choice that he made.

But that's a speculation on my part.

ITA ldyJ I think the reason why clay was very happy during his promo and even after...why we didn;t hear any whining like other artist like sir elton...is because it was his choice to do it this way. He would rather miss out on the opportunity for maximum promo right after AI and make the CD the way he wants to....

I have a feeling there is a plan...and the next CD is part of the bigger picture.

[ldyjocelyn]

I'll give everyone 3 more minutes -- while I clean up the slight flood from my dishwasher. (Good news: tomorrow I get a new dishwasher, which I've wanted for a while!)

[Claygasm]

I have a feeling there is a plan...and the next CD is part of the bigger picture.

ITA with this. I don't think they did ATDW in a vaccuum. I really think it was step one and I think it was because they knew much of the media attention would not be on the CD. This way, the got through all that with a CD they didn't have too much at stake with. Next CD there will nothing to talk about but that CD.

[Couch Tomato]

As for radio, I think radio is resistent to play Clay for for some reason. But IMO I think they HAD to pick a cover for the first single. After all, this was an album of primarily covers. I just think they picked the wrong cover. I think "Broken Wings" would have been great, for example. But I still have my doubts he would get radio play.

I agree...unfortunately I'm quite pessimistic about radio. Well unfortunately for Clay cuz I do think he wants it and his fans cuz I know must of them do. I just don't care cuz I think it's crap. I would dread DJ comments more than enjoy the fact that he was actually played. HOWEVER, I tend to make this applicable to top 40 radio where most of the asshats are. I think he'd do fine on AC .... that's where he belongs for now..maybe some hot ac depending on the which type it is. The only thing about those stations is that they don't play your songs every hour on the hour...or maybe that's a good thing.

[YSRN]

I really do agree with Dudley's assessment that the original concept of Clives was a much more basic...quick and classic treatment of some love songs. But Clay wanted more. I think Clay took Clives idea and built it up in his own image...in the end the marketing concept and the product didn't quite fit.

Me too. I think Clay had way more leeway to do the album he wanted WITHIN the parameters of a large list of songs. He wanted upbeat (emotionally, not tempo), and that's why I believe HE left LAA off the album (I believe he said so in fact). I also believe he was given four slots for originals and he chose them. I believe he chose all the songs in fact. I don't believe he is embarrassed with the CD; quite the opposite.

As for promotion, I believe they did everything they planned +/- 10%ish. Everything listed on that "ebay list" was potential, but not guaranteed. Just like every other artist's promotional plan. I think Clay had a LOT of say in the way it played out. Low key now... more later.

I think Clay IS perceived as a celebrity and not a musician... by more than RCA. I think he does his share to foster that perception. Partly because I don't think he's 1000 percent sure he IS (only) a musician. I say that because I think he wants to be more than a singer, but he's not sure what, so he tries to leave too many opportunities open. I think that hurts him career-wise, but not personally. I know I'm projecting a little there because I did/do the same thing. I prefer to have more options than make it any further up the corporate ladder in one area. It's a personal nature sort of thing. I admire that Clay is so perceptive about himself. And I could be talking out of my ass, but it's the way I view him.

I'm so totally off topic. Ha! This is hard. Heh, but it's good to try to force me to stay on one topic per 20 minutes... Me likey. I suck at it so far, but I like it. Hee.

Edited June 2, 2007 by YSRN

[ldyjocelyn]

Next CD there will nothing to talk about but that CD.

BINGO!

Question 2:

2) RCA/Clive/Roger -- what do you think is the relationship between them and Clay?

[Ansamcw]

I also think that maybe the tabloid problem added to the build up and timing issue. I always said that the print features I bet were less because they wanted to focus on the rumors. For other artist..they are cool wiht that...they would love to use that as part of the hook. But i bet Clay didn't..

I also think that Clive may be pushing for more originals from Clay...just a feeling I have.

[Kareneh]

Ooops! I was doing something else and you're probably onto another topic by now. ATDW promotion or lack thereof......I think RCA went for as much free promtion as they could get thinking that this one wasn't going to do all that well despite the fan base. Gerbil wheel of no promo - what should they expect but I think they pay people big bucks to figure out the likely return on advertising dollars spent.The AI5 hype was missed and three years out of the Idol hoopla is a long time. I think the gnat thing last year was a huge distraction. It HAD to be. And isn't that all they wanted to talk about for many of the promo appearances. I find the fact that Clay seemingly stopped promoting it himself a little telling. I'm not saying he doesn't like the album or it isn't him. I have no way of knowing that but it's like he's moved on with everything and his focus is forward now. Could be that he realized ATDW wasn't going too far without better backng from it's label and so he let it go, too.

I agree with ansamcw that the next CD is part of the bigger picture, too.

[Couch Tomato]

ITA ldyJ I think the reason why clay was very happy during his promo and even after.

I wanted to comment on this. When I saw Clay at Kimmel the day of the numbers came out on his first week sales it gave me peace. The man to me exuded peace and happiness. If it's all an act he fooled me. But I'm not going to think that deeply about it. I can only react to how I felt that day...

[YSRN]

2) RCA/Clive/Roger -- what do you think is the relationship between them and Clay?

I think their relationship is fine. I think they have a guarded respect for each other -- guarded in that they realize it's business, not family or friendships. I don't use the word "trust" in regards to any business. So to say I don't "trust" them to not take care of Clay seems out of place for me. What I trust is that everyone is looking out for their best interests and that the parties in question are all fully capable of holding their own and nobody is "out to get" anyone else.

That's as simply as I can put it.

Edited June 2, 2007 by YSRN

[KAndre]

Hey y'all!

I'm more with Claygasm's view...I think it got fairly average promotion, and I think that the original timing was designed to take advantage of the AI5 appearance...and for whatever reason, didn't drop in time. But one reason I think it got average promotion because a) Clay really isn't a superstar, crazy fandom notwithstanding, and that stat artquest posted on the CH from her reading of Dirty Little Secrets of the Record Business:

In 2005, there were over 60,000 albums released, including reissues with new bar codes, etc. Of these, only 32 sold over a million copies. Thirty-two. Another 103 went gold. For me, that puts a lot of the sales of Idols, both past and present, in perspective.

I would have to compare Clay's PR with the others that went gold and platinum and his status as a recording artist.

As for question #2, I'm with YSRN and Claygasm - first and foremost, it's a business relationship. On Clay's part as well.

[Claygasm]

Next CD there will nothing to talk about but that CD.

BINGO!

Question 2:

2) RCA/Clive/Roger -- what do you think is the relationship between them and Clay?

I think it is a business relationship - pure and simple. I always got the feeling Clive liked Clay, but just like your boss may like you doesn't mean you get to do anything and everything you want!

I think its the same with Roger. Roger has a job to do. He takes orders from someone. Clay is not the only person he works with. He does his job. I don't know if he likes Clay, hates Clay or couldn't care less one way or the other and it doesn't matter. No matter how he personally feels about Clay, if he didn't do his job he wouldn't have one!

I also think Clay likes Clive - even admires him, certainly respects him. Love him or hate him, Clive is a legend in the music industry. That also doesn't mean he agrees with everything Clive does! Again, you may really like your boss and respect him and recognize that he is really good at his job but still disagree with him or her.

The three of them are in a business relationship. No more, no less. And I certainly do not think Clive and/or Roger are out to destroy Clay's career! That makes no sense whatsoever to me and never will.

[ldyjocelyn]

RCA -- they are businessmen, pure and simple. Trying to get the best return for their dollar. So, where does the artist fit in there? Sometimes, it doesn't. I actually think Clay and RCA did a good job of some sort of compromise.

Clive -- again, a businessman. And IMO, a successful one -- in a previous era in time. He may be a bit out of touch now, but that doesn't make him DUMB either (and that's the feeling I get from so many fans). Also, I really resent that because he LOOKS old, and is considered OLD in physical years by some, that they think he's stupid. That attitude burns my butt.

Need to think about the Roger thing....back later.

[Couch Tomato]

I think Clay IS perceived as a celebrity and not a musician... by more than RCA. I think he does his share to foster that perception. Partly because I don't think he's 1000 percent sure he IS (only) a musician. I say that because I think he wants to be more than a singer, but he's not sure what, so he tries to leave too many opportunities open. I think that hurts him career-wise, but not personally. I know I'm projecting a little there because I did/do the same thing. I prefer to have more options than make it any further up the corporate ladder in one area. It's a personal nature sort of thing. I admire that Clay is so perceptive about himself. And I could be talking out of my ass, but it's the way I view him.

hee YSRN>.type faster!! and bring this up during the musical direction.heee

Next topic...

I think Clay is just like any other commodity to Clive. He wants him to bring a return on his investment. I'm sure he thought if no singing rod stewart could make a killing singing old crap then Clay who could sing circles around him could do even better. I can't think of a thing that Clay could do to put him on such an exalted pedestal that Clive felt it his duty to bring him down. He's just an old ghoul who wanted to make some money who doesn't have a complete bead on what to do with this exceptional talent...and probably misread part of his fanbase. Not all of it because clearly ballad Clay appeals to a whole lot of folks...that is how he was presented to us after all in the beginning.

Now as for the album that Clay submitted to Clive? Well I haven't heard it so I'm not going to say it was the best thing ever recorded. I hear just You, Back for More, Tears Run Dry and 1000 Days. I loved TRD beyond all reason. I liked Back for More and 1000 Days because I love Clay's voice and he can make me love anything. Just you was meh. Is this the makings of a masterpeice? Until I hear it I can't say Clive took a masterpeice and threw it away. The man didn't get where he is by being stupid....would I have preferred to have this rather than covers no matter how good it was...YES most definitely. That's because I love Clay.

[KAndre]

Man, I gotta type faster too!

[playbiller]

Roger is just a hired hand - I don't understand why people think they should be beswt friends - I think of him much as I do the salesman I used to work through - they loved me whne the clients loved me and were willing to sell me down the river when there was a problem.

It is just a job.

[Couch Tomato]

2) RCA/Clive/Roger -- what do you think is the relationship between them and Clay?

I think their relationship is fine. I think they have a guarded respect for each other -- guarded in that they realize it's business, not family or friendships. I don't use the word "trust" in regards to any business. So to say I don't "trust" them to not take care of Clay seems out of place for me. What I trust is that everyone is looking out for their best interests and that the parties in question are all fully capable of holding their own and nobody is "out to get" anyone else.

That's as simply as I can put it.

sums it up for me when it comes to Roger. If you throw your artists under the bus no one will hire you. Your reputation is primo in a town like that.

[YSRN]

hee YSRN>.type faster!! and bring this up during the musical direction.heee

Now as for the album that Clay submitted to Clive? Well I haven’t heard it so I’m not going to say it was the best thing ever recorded. I hear just You, Back for More, Tears Run Dry and 1000 Days. I loved TRD beyond all reason. I liked Back for More and 1000 Days because I love Clay’s voice and he can make me love anything. Until I hear it I can't say Clive took a masterpeice and threw it away.

Psst. You too! I did better on the second question. Hee.

ETA: I agree it's very rude to diss Clive and his age... Don't "we" hate that done to "us"? If the guy's an ass, fine... but what does his age have to do with it.

Edited June 2, 2007 by YSRN

[playbiller]

I want to add - when the field is loaded with people with all sorts of bagage (drugs, alchol, emotional problems) Clay must look like a godsend.

[Ansamcw]

Ok so Clive....

I think when Clive saw Clay and the reaction to him he saw dollar signs. I do believe that even if clay ended third...Clive would've signed him up. BUT he can only see in terms of formula's. He tried to push Clay into the rocker mold...Clay fought that....so he put Clay into the teen idol mold...but that didn;t work too good either.

So here comes a very succesful Christmas CD...then a christmas special that got high ratings but for older demographic...the concerts with audiences that are skewed older...then finally, JBT. He took those classics and delivered them better than the originals...

Frankly...if I was Clive, I would think a covers album would be a no brainer...a cheap no brainer.

I think the other box Clive can put clay in...the artist songwriter. I have a feeling clay ahs been feeling the pressure to write his own songs. I think its possiblt Clive wanted more Clay originals. I think he saw the songs clay and Jaymes put together and thought it would be just a Nick Lachey album..and where did his album go...nowhere. so unless clay can come up with some cool originals and go for the demographic of mayer and Blunt...then he might as well go for the older demo ang go for the nostalgia ...COVERS.

I am very excited when Clay said the next one wold be more creative. I think now that the cover experiment happened...Clive may give Clay more leeway .

[Couch Tomato]

Roger is just a hired hand - I don't understand why people think they should be beswt friends - I think of him much as I do the salesman I used to work through - they loved me whne the clients loved me and were willing to sell me down the river when there was a problem.

It is just a job.

heee agreed.

Clay has had a real education. He knows all the facts. He has high priced lawyers and advisors. He’ll get out when he can if he is being thrown under the bus. Until then he’ll compromise, and bargain, and do the things we all have to do in life to be successful.