#5 (plus #6 & #7) - "Well....the weather outside is frightful...but the man is so delightful..."

[rcknrllmom]

Happy Birthday bottlecap! :00003653:

[bottlecap]

[Divayenta]

That whole YWT debate was a fantastic experience for me. I learned so much from others (some of y'all) and was able to heal some deep and long-standing wounds during that time. Today I'm able to enjoy his Christian music much more as a result, but that song will always be the one I have the most trouble with. For me it's the lyrics and the theological standpoint that made that song different. As a melody it was quite lovely, and a virtuoso performance of the sort he cherishes (as do I).

I knew from the moment I heard the demos that he is most truly alive when he's singing Christian songs, and that I would have to and was willing to deal with that as part of the package--that I wanted to learn how to deal with it, because Christianity has been an issue for me for a long time. There's a long and varied history that I think anyone regardless of affiliations and beliefs would find at least parts of sympathetic, but I don't want to go there. Oddly, even after more unpleasantries in RL post YWT I'm still in a better place. It really used to be such a weight for me, still is, but much, much less. It's my karma to work this out, for real, so YAY for YWT.

But I wanna talk about the handbasket instead. Clay reminds me of the saints and shamans who have a sexual relationship with the divine--just look at the guy in the Clackhouse banner--just look!!! It isn't just that he's hot--it's fascinating to me as a student of religious phenomena to witness and be touched by the experience he's having when he sings to his god even if I don't go to exactly the same place with it. It's fascinating to watch myself be captivated by this experience which for me has a religious component. It's a Gopi/Krishna thing--along with other women I share this experience of a kind of sexual communion with a someone who is, in a sense, an incarnation of divinity. Course he's just the vessel, but hey--what a vessel.

Clay's faith can fascinate me even if I don't share in the particulars--its strength and simplicity is admirable, its intensity when he sings is captivating, and I find it inspiring. I'm curious about his faith, about whether there are times he says, "Why me?" when all the crap keeps happening to him. Perhaps he has a bit of a martyr complex and chalks it up to suffering for the Greater Good. So I can find his religion interesting and attractive without sharing his religious affiliation.

Wow jmh, I'm in agreement with muski, here on your post. Brilliant. You have captured exactly my thoughts over the years about our Clay. I wish all of us could sit around in person and explore with faces and body language the nuances of this fascinating topic. I, too, believe that the sexual and the sacred walk side by side and if there ever was a personification of that , wow, it's Clay. I sometimes wonder if the man is a little bodhisattva walking among us! When he sings Emmanuel, Good News, All is Well, and yeah, even YWT, I allow the glory and the power of his voice and the gorgeous music to wash over me. And I'm with y'all on "The Blood"- it has popped on my shuffle deck at the "oddest " times- just when I needed the "essence" of that song. Clay has truly brought me many gifts with his being who he is.

Kandre, I hope I didn't offend you with my comments. You sounded really angry , I'm sorry if I did. I was just giving some context as to why some people might have felt "off" initially during YWT. That song's words and philosophy are very different from anything else he has sung and they were to say in the least unexpected. Like jmh, I listen with interest now, and frankly, it's one of my favorite songs because the beauty and the intensity with which he sings it is not to be denied. Do I think Christians are evil? Of course not!! Many of us have our own unique relationships with the Christ- but that's not today's topic. I really hope I didn't offend you.

Edited February 19, 2007 by Divayenta

[Couch Tomato]

Happy Birthday Bottle! Thanks for hanging out with us and bringing the funny on a daily basis. I hope you have a great day.

[KAndre]

Oh, not so much angry as annoyed (you can tell when I'm angry on the board - all caps and exclamation points; like Clay, subtle ain't in me) and not offended either - Diva I definitely wasn't thinking you or really anyone here but in other places there was (and is) the notion that Christian/religious/bad/stupid/narrow-minded/must forcibly convert - I'm definitely a shades of grey person and I think too many people try shove others into neat boxes because a single aspect - and negative stereotypes seem so much stronger than positive. This hasn't happened in this conversation, but occasionally I feel like jumping up and down and screaming "There is no monolithic body of Christians! African-Americans! Clayfans! Republicans! Sikhs! Libertarians! Women! Teenagers! Bisexuals! Americans! Pakistanis! None! None! None!" - but frankly the people I would scream at would simply stuff me in the box labelled "Naive psycho" and not listen.

I always thought of Clay as very much embodying that Apollonian and Dionysian dichotomy and as such he so very polarizing and charismatic (I'm not familiar enough with eastern philosophy - I need to change that). I think Clay so very reflects in us what we like about ourselves (and dislike as well); he has provided an opportunity for me to really see the interfaces I have with someone who in normal everyday life I would have probably never spoken to - across the country, around the world.

And I do agree that Clay probably regrets hurting anyone.

Y'all try to remember that I'm bad at birthdays - so I wish everyone HAPPY BIRTHDAY on MY birthday - 'cause I can remember that.

[Ansamcw]

YAY Bottlcap!!!! Happy Birthday!!!!

:bday2:

[playbiller]

Oh, Bot tle cap

Ok, no lying, the spins are going down - this will only cause me to request more - what surprises me is the hsotility of fans, remember those people that used to vote on TRL - who will not support this song and seem thra-rilled for it to fall. You don't haveto look at rosie all the time, but a little effort on the fans would do a lot. It was like trying to stop people from ordering the album on Amazon all the first day when it did not show in the charts, but to spread it out, so it could stay up there for a little while, and others could see it. It is like a little organization is now looked down upon, well because, well shouldn't Clay have produced the bestest album evah? Well he would have if we didn't have someone else to blame. By blaming someone, we seem to be excused from the fan work we did before.

[Couch Tomato]

I feel ya KAndre. I grew up in church and I have my own issues but the people sitting beside me were not and still aren't influencing any kind of power in Washington. I can't even relate to Christianity in a negative sense at all. It's just not my experience and I was knee deep in it my entire life.

Why don't I want to get up and go to work. Am I the only one that has to work today? Sigh. I know Georgis has to work. Hospitals never close!!

Just finished catching up...enjoying reading everyone's perspective.

[Divayenta]

I always thought of Clay as very much embodying that Apollonian and Dionysian dichotomy and as such he so very polarizing and charismatic (I'm not familiar enough with eastern philosophy - I need to change that). I think Clay so very reflects in us what we like about ourselves (and dislike as well); he has provided an opportunity for me to really see the interfaces I have with someone who in normal everyday life I would have probably never spoken to - across the country, around the world.(bolding mine)

Yes!! Yes!! K! I totally agree with the Apollonian/Dionysian model you describe. He is definitely an archetype of that order - and Jesus and Dionysus have lots in common in their stories.

As an old Jungian I also see him as a positive animus figure , a friend to women as well. Those very qualities that draw us to him, are IMO the same ones that threaten others (certain media and internet types) based on their projections . I don't know if this makes sense.

Someone the other day at the CH quoted Ayn Rand and I paraphrase cos I'm too tired to look it up but it was something about "decency offends others by implication". Can someone find that one? It was brilliant.

Smooches :F_05BL17blowkiss: The part of your quote I bolded is so incredibly powerful and beautiful.

[Claygasm]

KAndre, please know I do not think all Christians are evil, or trying to push their beliefs on others or politically conservative etc. All you have to do is look at Clay to know that's not true! But, IMO, there is a very wealthy and politically powerful and vocal minority who are like that. I once saw a bumper ticket I thought was perfect. It said "The Christian Right is neither". Their actions are neither Christian nor are they right (IMO). These are the the "Christians" that offend me (and people like this exist within every religious group).

It was people like that I was hurt the most by during the YWT controversy. I made a post about why I felt it was an inappropriate song choice, especially considering the way it was staged with the images on the jumbotrons. These so-called "Christians" proceeded to all but burn me at the stake. The names I was called - ranging from the anti-Christ to the devil to something as simple as I had no right to call myself a Clay fan if I thought like that and that Clay would be ashamed to have me as a fan - demonstrated some of the most un-Christian like behavior I have ever personally witnessed.

I still think Clay made a mistake singing that song in a concert like the NAT. I especially think he made a mistake staging it like he did. He should have realized his audience was very diverse - from Christians to Jews to aethists etc. He should have taken into consideration that the choice of that song and its staging may have offended some and made others feels very uncomfortable. If I wanted to go see Clay I was forced to listen to him in my mind preach to me and that was not fair. Granted, in theory I could have left, but depending where you are sitting it isn't always possible. By the time you work your way through the crowd and out you would miss most of Rosanna and half of TITN! So sat I did. And I remember at the last concert in Raleigh I was so happy I would never have to hear that song again. When it ended, I felt such relief. I hope I never have to feel like I did during YWT again at a Clay concert.

I believe Clay, who was brought up in a very insular enviroment when it came to religion, made that mistake out of naivity. No harm, no foul. I know Clay never thought it might hurt someone, or offend them or even make them feel uncomfortable. I am sure in his naivity he never even thought those reactions were possible. I hope he is no longer that naive. In retrospect, I think it was the hurt inflicted on me by some fans that made that song harder for me than even the images on the jumbotron.

I always thought of Clay as very much embodying that Apollonian and Dionysian dichotomy and as such he so very polarizing and charismatic (I'm not familiar enough with eastern philosophy - I need to change that). I think Clay so very reflects in us what we like about ourselves (and dislike as well); he has provided an opportunity for me to really see the interfaces I have with someone who in normal everyday life I would have probably never spoken to - across the country, around the world.

This KAndre, is brilliant. Just brilliant. I have often felt this, but had never put it into words.

jmh - your post was fascinating. I wish I had more time now to take it all in. Another brilliant post.

I, like others, wish we could have a FCA pow-wow to discuss things like this. It is so interesting to hear so many perspectives from so many intelligent women.

Now, before I get back to work, I must wish Bottle a wonderfully happy birthday! May all your birthday wishes come true (and I doubt any of them involve chickens!)

:bday2:

[roseviolet]

Good Morning! Just a little reminder that today on Rose Radio at 12 noon (Pacific Time), I will be playing the new tracks that I am adding to the playlist this week. This includes tracks by Barbra Streisand, Borne, Clay Aiken, Eva Cassidy, Franz Ferdinand, George Huff, Gnarls Barkley, Harry Chapin, Keith Urban, Kelly Clarkson, Linda Eder, Nikki McKibbin, Rolling Stones, Ryan Starr, Taylor Hicks and The Mavericks. On Tuesday you can read more about this week's selections on the Rose Radio blog.

[Ansamcw]

he's just the vessel, but hey--what a vessel.

Man, it's too bad we just changed thread titles, because this would be really, really good.

psst... Ms Administrator....you know you can create a thread to put in all the cool possible thread titles if you want to... :F_05BL17blowkiss:

Wow great sunday round table discussion....

This fandom really has opened my eyes and changed my attitude to a lot of things...

Growing up in the Philippines where most people are Catholic, I think I was in a similar situation as Clay...I wasn't personally exposed to a lot of different religions and attitudes about spirituality. Although I am aware of them since I am well read and like to explore other culutres and POV, I never got into any deep philosphical discussion or debate about belief systems until I moved to Canada...and to a deeper level until the YWT incident.

I think my first reaction was WTF??? Why would this be seen as offensive???WHy is the cross, a holy symbol for a lot of culture be seen as offensive??? That discussion truly opened my eyes and helped me understand a lot of different POV. One of the things I learned that for a lot of people ...they reacted because it was connected to their politics...to some it reminded them of traumatic experiences in indoctrination and intolerance....for others it felt like they wee being excluded in this experience. The reactionsw ere diverse and illuminating for me. What a truly diverse fandom this is and if people just allow civilized discussion on these controversial issues...we end up learning so much from each other and growing. Clay sure has made a difference in my life and attitudes, not just by his direct actions but through the different reactions of his fans.

Hee I never really get the hand in the basket idea. I guess I never thought that sexuality should be seperated from spirituality. Yeah he is sexy when he is totally into a song specially with GN and YWT...nothing wrong with that in my view...I know strange coming from a Catholic girl...But I remember when Jesus Christ Superstar first came out and people were shokced because Jesus seem to be this sexual person and Mary MAgdalene's song song, I Don;t Know How to Love Him...suggests a romantic interest. I thought it was a very interesting insight myself and I think if I would have a crush on Jesus as well. :medium-smiley-070:

Play..I can feel your frustration. My attitude usually is to leave people with their view of Clay and his career alone...as long as it really has no effect on Clay. BUT the poddies are affecting the general mood of the fandom...they are sucking all the joy and hope in people that usually manifests itself in ethusiasm and energy that the industry cannot ignore. The thing is, where would it hurt Clay if we continue to request the song and stream the video. even if they are right and Clay considers the project dead, it will still go a long way in letting the rasio stations know that there is enthusiasm for Clay. If the fans just give up on this...it just perpetuates the idea that Clay is a flash in the pan.

I personally like being pro active and supporting rather athan sitting back and kvetching over what we don;t have and declaring something dead when something can be done about it.

[KAndre]

It was people like that I was hurt the most by during the YWT controversy. I made a post about why I felt it was an inappropriate song choice, especially considering the way it was staged with the images on the jumbotrons. These so-called "Christians" proceeded to all but burn me at the stake. The names I was called - ranging from the anti-Christ to the devil to something as simple as I had no right to call myself a Clay fan if I thought like that and that Clay would be ashamed to have me as a fan - demonstrated some of the most un-Christian like behavior I have ever personally witnessed.

Bolding mine, of course.

Some people can call themselves what they want. Doesn't make it true. And those were just bad people whatever they call themselves, whether "true" Clay fans or the Inquisition.

And Claygasm, I do see your point - I guess I'm just the kind of person that doesn't necessarily have to leave physically - I am quite capable of simply tuning out parts I don't like. Hell, I've done that during actual altar calls in churches I was dragged too (then argued with some member there, but that's another story). I think he does recognize the diversity of his audience but I do have a problem with determining how much he should cater to that diversity, because he also needs to be able to express who he is. I see Clay not so much as a salad bar, where you can chose the spinach and eggs and bacon bits and treat the olives like the spawn of satan that they are, but as a shared bowl of signature hollandaise sauce by some chef that you are eating en famile, some don't want to use real butter because it's not healthy for you but if you don't, you'll have someting tasty but it ain't hollandaise. And some really want the whole shebang. Can y'all tell I'm waiting on the stupid furniture guys and I'm hungry?

I like working for a bank.

[muskifest]

Wow...doesn't it seem that a lot of FCAers have birthdays around the same time? In any case...

:bday2: to bottlecap!!!!! I shall keep the cluck cluck to myself and spare you the poultry...

Ah, yes...an FCA blahblah fest---gets my heart thumping just thinking of it... :medium-smiley-070:

I was on that board with Claygasm when the whole YWT thing exploded and I saw what happened to her...unreal. I got into a PM back and forth with one of the 'leaders' of the witch hunt and although the private discussion started out in a calm, intellectual debate-type tone, I asked to end it when she began trying to save my damned-to-hell-for-eternity soul and telling me that I "couldn't have it both ways" or something. Whatever.

So...ATDW. I click on that Yahoo stream from time to time. I paid for and downloaded the album (with LAA) and I always go anywhere online that Clay and his music goes. I guess that's my modest online support for this CD.

I don't call radio stations---The one station around here I listen to when I DO listen to radio would NEVER have a Clay Aiken song on it (It's an alternative rock station) I DID call and email an AC station when "Without You" was released as a single, but I remember feeling weird about doing that since I don't even listen to the station! I have a strange relationship with radio, actually. Usually, it's in the car and I find myself pushing one preset button after another trying to find ANY song instead of advertisements and inane djs trying to be funny or interesting.

Here's a question: What WOULD the fandom consider 'success' for this CD?

It's sold more than half a million copies and still sells each week. Clay has been on television and/or performing on stage ever since the album dropped and when doing so has either been wildly applauded or has been a media darling/demon for his scandalous (and ratings boosting) behavior. His video (which still makes me giggle and cringe at the same time--(Lordy, all those purposeful eyefucks! ) is on Yahoo. I'm not giving up on the CD, but I'm not getting any carpel tunnel symptoms from clicking all over the internet, either.

When I talk with people who aren't part of this online fandom, and Clay just HAPPENS to enter the conversation, I talk about the CD (and AIW) and encourage them---if they seem open to it---to get a copy and hear this man's beautiful voice. When I talk to people who seem more open to other...assets...of the man, I offer to share different kinds of CLACK (if you get my drift )...as well as fan-captured concert stuff.

That's my support of this CD. I bought my multiple copies in the beginning and shared them and now I hope others discover it. Yes, they're going to have to find their way to it on the shelves without fanfare but as long as each week shows SOME new sales, that seems positive to me.

So I ask again: What WOULD the fandom consider 'success' for this CD? And here's another question: Who IS this fandom of which I speak?

Which leads me to another question: If we weren't part of the online community but were fans of Clay and his music, would WE think this CD was successful? Would WE consider Clay successful--based only on his professional profile OFF the internet? Based on his appearances and the references to him on talk shows, entertainment shows, in newspapers, etc.? If we heard that an artist had a gold-selling album, would we think he/she was NOT successful?

Just wondering out loud.

[georgiaclay]

Happy, Happy birthday Bottle. May you have many many more and stay warm girl. Hope you can get out and celebrate. What are the temp's like today up there. Still cold for our standards down this far south. Can't wait until spring and bring on those hot summers. I can't stand the cold. Not a cold weather person here.

So again, Happy Birthday Bottle!!!!

and just for you,

:00003653: :04: :2164: :3:

and yes, I do have to work tonight. It is sad, but hospitals never close.

[Ansamcw]

hee...your food analogy reminded me of the party analgoy I used in this discussion way back when.

I guess I agree that I wouldn't want him to stop expressing a very important part of him through his art...his spritituality. BUT I do believe that he won't be able to help but be more aware of the possible affect his actions will be on his audience. I don't think this will necessarily hinder him...but just challenge him to be more creative and yes subtle...heh. Just like GN...This happend after YWT...it is a very spiritual song and was presented in a very dramatic fashion. He was able to express his spirituality in a very overt way that seem to be less controversial. I know that for you Claygasm the fact that it was on a Christmas show it became more acceptable...but I wouldn't be surprised if he does something similar in a pop show. I think the fans just has to expect that now. I think he will find a way to be true to himself while being mindful of fans like you. Maybe it won't have such obvious staging and symbolism but it will still be dramatic and he probably will be more conscious of the lyrics of the song he chooses so it won't be seen as exclusionary. But I truly would hate to think that he would shut off that side of him during a pop concert. I think the fans would lose out in the long run if he keeps censoring himself according to what the fans want and don't want cos that is when he stunts his artistic growth...and growth is always a good thing. (I smutted for you muski...heh)

oooo Muski...lots of interesting questions...I will have to answer fully later on..

But to me the most basic support we can give Clay and this CD is not to think its dead that we hardly talk it up to people or act all horrified by the thought that it could be revived. I think that does send a message to non fans or casual fans that this CD sucks and it doesn't. So as far as I'm concerned you are being very supportive by what you do and your attitude.

ok gotta run for now...later.

[KAndre]

looks around carefully for couchie...

And if I never hear GN again, I won't miss it. I don't hate it, it's just a big bucket o' meh for me - I can't even remember the lyrics.

Hell, as for ATDW being dead, why should ATDW be any deader than the Beatles' White Album? Because people still talk about the latter - and since I only like 2 of the 30 songs on that, I find ATDW livlier.

[Claygasm]

So I ask again: What WOULD the fandom consider 'success' for this CD? And here's another question: Who IS this fandom of which I speak?

Which leads me to another question: If we weren't part of the online community but were fans of Clay and his music, would WE think this CD was successful? Would WE consider Clay successful--based only on his professional profile OFF the internet? Based on his appearances and the references to him on talk shows, entertainment shows, in newspapers, etc.? If we heard that an artist had a gold-selling album, would we think he/she was NOT successful?

Just wondering out loud.

Interesting musings.

I think Clay may have hit the nail on the head when it comes to the question of what this fandom - the internet fandom primarily - considers success for this CD. I remember him saying something along the line of since MOAM sold so well the first week, would anything short of those figures be considered a failure. I think this internet fandom held MOAM up as the minimum standard of success for ATDW. Not just its first week sales, but its overall sales. Maybe they saw how much more Kelly's 2nd album sold than her first. Or maybe they just felt Clay's secnd should be able to sell at least as many as MOAM.

I never thought it would because I always felt the album's phenomenal first week sales were an aberration. They were fueled IMO primarily by two things: The AI buzz machine and the perceived competition between Clay and Ruben with Clay's fans determined to show that Clay should have won. If you think about it, he sold almost 1/4 of his TOTAL sales to date in that first week and much of that was fueled by people who bought multiple albums - sometimes as many as 20 or more! I bet at least half of MOAM's sales happened in the first month. When you look at it that way, that album wasn't exactly a blockbuster.

When I look at what I consider successful albums I look at ones like "Breakaway" for Kelly which may not have had record breaking first week sales but continued to sell and sell and sell for a couple of years. I look at Carrie Underwood and here about 1-1/2 years after her album was released she's still on the charts. That consistent selling to me is far more impressive than huge first week sales.

At the time, Clay had the most successful debut album by anyone off of AI. But when you look at his total figures and compare them to artists generally considered superstars, they pale in comparison. Now, I don't mean to take anything away from MOAM's success, but I think many in this fandom may have had an inflated view of how successful it was. I always thought AI and the initial success of MOAM made Clay a superstar in the celebrity world more than a musical superstar. I never put him in the same superstar category that I would put Justin Timberlake for example (who many tried to compare him to). If people thought he could compete with JT in sales with any album - covers or originals - I think they were delusional.

In my mind, MOAM was a successful first album. It was not a hugely successful album. It was not a blockbuster. But it was successful. Unless ATDW at the very least equaled MOAM's numbers I think many in this internet fandom consider it a failure.

I don't consider it a failure because I think they wouldn't have a Gold certification of selling 500,000 copies if that figure was considered a failure. They don't normally give recognition to failures! And many, many artists would give their right arm for a gold record.

I also think several other things need to be considered. It is a covers album. I think by nature they are a tougher sell, especially since so many of the songs on the album are relatively recent and still getting radio play. I am not sure all the promotion in the world could have made this album successful in the realm of MOAM. I think the fact Clay hadn't had an album out in so long hurt. I think many of the casual fans who liked him on AI had long since moved on. He hasn't ever really had a presence on the radio. "Invisible" did ok for a few months but vanished. And "The Way" and "Solitaire" never did make much of an impression on radio. So except for Christmas, he seemed to virtually disappear between albums. I also think you need to remember he no longer had the AI buzz and the AI machine behind him and love it or hate it, that is a force to be reckoned with. And then there is the fact that overall, album sales have plunged industry wide.

Now, if I were not a member of the internet fandom and just heard Clay's album had gone gold, I would consider it a huge success. I suppose if I read an article that mentioned MOAM was triple platinum (did it ever actually get certified triple platinim?) but ATDW "only" went gold, I might not think of it as a huge success, but I would never think of it as a failure. It seems to me back in the day the standard of success for an album was selling gold. So I think most people if told it was a gold selling album would think it a success.

While so many in this fandom deem ATDW a failure, maybe they should ask Ruben what he thinks? Not to pick on him, but compare his album to ATDW in sales figures. For that matter, ask Fantasia's fans. Hers isn't selling that well and wasn't she considered Clive's darling?

I don't know if Clay considers ATDW successful or not sales-wise. I suspect he had far more realistic expectations than many of the fans did. I hope he considers it a success artistically and growth-wise. But no matter what Clay thinks of ATDW it boggles my mind that some do not want to support it any longer - by requesting ATD if appropriate, or streaming the videos on yahoo or whatever - because they think Clay is done with it. Even if that were true, do they really think Clay would be mad if ATD moved up the charts or if the Yahoo video remains in their top 20 or whatever? I imagine he would be THRILLED if that happened. It may not help the sales of ATDW, but it does keep him in the public conscience AS A SINGER, which could play a huge role in the success of the next album, whenever that may be. It will help radio programmers feel as if there still is an interest in Clay's music. IMO, it is vitally important for what is to come, if not for ATDW.

[playbiller]

high fives Kandre for the GN snoozing

In declaring ATDW dead - I find that there is some life left in this fandom, but I really want to know what people are expecting if another album does not come out for another year or two - what exactly will they be supporting Clay in? I don't see why some people feel it is a waste of time to support Clay, even if you don't believe in his album because more success only is more guarentee that he will be making more appearances.

Maybe the album is just dead to them, I am still listening to it, so it is alive to me. I see it in local stores, so it is not dead to them yet.

[bottlecap]

Thanks for all the birthday greetings! I just got back from the mall with my niece and nephew, and my hunt for new shoes resulted in my niece getting a really cute pair of skull and crossbone wellies from the Steve Madden store, my nephew getting a D&D book, and me getting NOTHING. Sigh...

georgia, it is 32 degree and sunny here, so it feels fabulous! It's all relative.

Now, before I get back to work, I must wish Bottle a wonderfully happy birthday! May all your birthday wishes come true (and I doubt any of them involve chickens!)

There might be one in the back of my subconscious

==================================================

I don't feel like I have much of value to add to today's conversations except for a couple of observations. For the Poddies to extrapolate Clay's feeling about the status of ATDW from something Jimmy said continues to confound me. It's not like Jimmy gave Clay a chance to disagree or interject anything at that point in the interview. It wouldn't hurt for them to go take a look again at Clay's 1/8/07 blog about

whether or not my misplaced comma was a ''subliminal signal" that I am "considering taking a untimely pause in my album promotion"

and whatnot.

The second thing is is that almost no artists are selling as many CDs as they did previously - even Grammy and Starbucks darling Norah Jones. That's just the nature of the business right now. I suspect whatever Clay sold, it wasn't going to be enough for some people if it was even one CD less than "Breakaway."

[Tesssy]

Just stopping in to say hello. I have been following the discussion. It is an interesting one.

[ldyjocelyn]

I think that if I were not an internet connected fan, but found out that he'd gone gold with this album, I'd be pretty happy. But then, I'm also enough of an entertainment junky to know that his previous album had gone multi-platinum....and to know that there's what they call the "sophomore slump." Would it bug me? Nope.

Most of my other thoughts on this topic mirror what Clagasm has so elegantly stated. I would have quoted you, but then I would have been quoting the entire gosh darn post. *g*

I do think there's one thing though that wasn't mentioned -- radio play. I think in many fans eyes, for this album to have been a success, it would have had to have spawned songs that are being played constantly on the radio. Well, this conceivably could be happening with ATD, but confusingly (to me), that is being downplayed.

And my thoughts on this subject harken back to discussions I've had on my previous board when the video for "The Way" came out. It was almost universally panned by the fans, and many questioned why they should support the video via TRL (RIP 2007) when they personally didn't like it. The answer that more than a few suggested was that it showed interest in Clay, and gave him ANOTHER chance to record, make videos etc. In my mind, I think people expected in 3 years that he wouldn't have to fight the battle to make another album. But you know what? Almost EVERY album made is made with the possible expectation that it will be the last album by that artist. Record companies have no problem dropping artists that don't sell to expectation (hello, Bo Bice). And, if a company does just that, many of the other companies see that as a vote of no confidence, and they aren't quite as willing to stand up and pick up that artist. So that's why I feel the need to keep supporting Clay -- I want him around for a while.

I do my supporting pretty much as muski does -- I go to Yahoo and play the video; I go to the Chicago CC station, and play the video. I've tried to do the request thing, but when you live in podunk, it doesn't really work all that well.

[muskifest]

I just finished watching the "Oh Baby that's a fact" montage from JNT '05 and my face hurts from smiling and my other parts tingle from all the purdy.... The man is just wonderful.

edited to say: WHOA! I'm only a few posts away from 1,000! Do I get something from Clay to mark the momentous occasion? huh? huh? do I? do I?

Edited February 19, 2007 by muskifest

[Claygasm]

edited to say: WHOA! I'm only a few posts away from 1,000! Do I get something from Clay to mark the momentous occasion? huh? huh? do I? do I?

I'm almost embarrassed to say that I seem to have crossed that level already. I didn't even notice before! How the hell did that happen? How did my chatty self suddenly end up with more posts than Muski??? Didn't I just start posting here???

Man, I really need to get a life! (But this is far more fun......)

[bottlecap]

I'm not 'shipping or anything because she seems to be mostly linked with pro athletes, but this post about Gabrielle Union made me giggle.

From terter4aiken at CV:

I'm watching Gabrielle Union on Rachel Ray.

Rachel asked her about guys, etc. and she said she needs to meet the guy first to check out his dental hygiene. Then she mentioned that good teeth were really important to her.

Chicks dig the choppers. :em0100: (And I suppose I should qualify that statement in some way, but it would mess up my alliteration.)