# 10 It isn't so easy to get your knickers off when they're in a knot.

[ldyjocelyn]

I'm on a private board that is chock-full of Clay love - take today for example

We started out this am talking about Paris' house arrest and are now talking about Clay and handcuffs . . .

Private boards can be all kinds of fun ya know

Fur-lined handcuffs, right? RIGHT?

Personally, I've always been intrigued by Clay's neckties and what could be done with those....

luckiest1, that's interesting about Macca (and no, I don't know the story either, sorry). Not even 200,000 sold for Paul McCartney? Wow. Man, the recording business sure has changed. Clay's doing good, IMO.

ETA: According to this answer on allexperts.com, it's just a shortening of McCartney's last name, which is supposedly a common pracitce over in England.

The thing about being called 'positive police', or being given any label, is that it's just that, it's a label. It doesn't define who I really am or how I think. When labels start flying, to me, it means someone disagrees with the way another person thinks and doesn't want to bother to either accept that difference or at least look closer at it. Somebody isn't willing to look at the subject from the other guy's point of view. Easier to slap a label on it like a construction site 'danger' sign so they can walk around it....which I guess is ok if there was really danger involved, but labeling other posters is just sort of silly to me. I can see no danger in reading another person's opinions, other than realizing my way might not be the only way to look at something. Meh.

Very astute observation, and a damn fine paragraph too. I've always tried my best to see all different points of view. Granted, some days I just can't, or just won't. But the only way to learn is to read other viewpoints, and then try your best to see where this person is coming from.

The SSB because he talked later about what a big deal it was to him and how nervous he was, and he nailed it

One of my favorites too -- I was so proud of him that night.

....and Kimmel, because I cut my shins the very same way when I shave my legs too.

BWAH!!!!!

[Clayzorback]

Dear Clay. I love you. I don't think you will ever look hotter or sexier than you do in bangs and stubble. I looked at some mighty fine pictures today. If you consistently looked this hot, and sexy ALL THE TIME, you would get no complaints from me. Your best look evah...........This look sure garners lots of fantasies. Something to think about..... :eusa_whistle: Oh and thank you for the occasional Waldo sightings..........I'm a big fan. Yes I am.......Love Clayzor :F_05BL17blowkiss:

I can only speak for myself, but when I use the terms "Positive Police" or "Fan Police" I am only referring to those OTT fans who don't want to let other fans have an honest opposing opinion. Or post anything that is not all fluff and puff. I'm referring to OTT fans who want to dictate to everyone else what they should think, say, do and how to behave. The ones who want to define anyone who is not all sunshine 24/7, over everything about Clay, as being a bad fan.

I don't mean it as a put down to everybody who just likes to have a general positive happy attitude in their fandom. If I don't happen to like something Clay is wearing or his latest haircut, I should be allowed to respectively say so, without someone trying to tell me I'm a bad fan because I said something, that in their opinion, was negative. Or accuse me of being a negative nellie. That is all. I don't mean it as derogatory to all positive thinking people. Not at all. To me, negative nellies are fans who are not just giving an honest respectful differing opinion and moving on. They are just constant whiners and complainers who will never be satisfied. People who constantly grate on everyone's nerves with their inability to be ever be satisfied. *g*

Don't even get me started on a certain private board. How many x's are in that name anyway? Anybody have a final count? Gee I get so confused when I try to type it out. My eyes just start blurring and crossing. Does that happen to anybody else. Why did, you know that I got my own private roasting over there. That's right! I'm a celebrity. Not to mention a viral marketeer for RCA. Yep roasted along with a certain mod. Bless her heart. I don't think there is an animal left in the kingdom that hasn't had her face photoshopped on it. I lost count of how many members, from another board, that the members there don't like got roasted. Yes sireeee. They had their own little Hall Of Shame wall. Be forewarned that if you have ever said that you would support Clay, even if he was gay, you are asking for it. They will seek you out. They fancy themselves as Crusaders for Clay. Bad fans are first investigated. They make it their life's mission to find out the real names and address of the bad fans. Where they work, along with pictures of them, their phone numbers and they can even zero in on their house with satellite. Lawd Jesus the wonders of technology today. Then they like to turn over all of this stuff to Clay's attorney's. I kid you not? Crazy isn't it? But they don't stop there. They spend hours cruising the internet for bloggers who diss Clay and they particularly love to keep engaging Perez Hilton and John Paulass until they get revenge and Clay is the one who suffers. Then they like to spend hours over at Ruben and Kelly boards engaging their fans in arguments. I sometimes think they are under some delusion that Clay appreciates their efforts and that he thanks them for being good little fans. ONLY NOT!!!!

I told you not to get me started. Hee Mods can delete this part if you want, but it seems some fans need a PSA about some private boards. I don't respect people who join this kind of private board and participate and support in this type of behavior.

[keepingfaith]

And he gets to be #1, too. Most other weeks of the year last year, ATDW would have been also. I just bet A Thousand and ONE Different Ways (as I like to call it in my evil moments) will come out the same week as Britney comes back, too.

eta, clueless question I've wondered about for ages. Macca? WTF??

Hee, I like your evil ways. Macca? Just a nickname, I guess. No idea where it started. Maybe one of our other resident Beatle fans knows?

I've always heard it was from the Liverpool days with nicknames derived from last names and that George was called Hazza and John called Lenny. Not sure just how correct that is. But I've also heard that Macca is a British nickname for anyone whose last name begins with Mc or Mac. So Paul is the Big Macca!

[keepingfaith]

FYI: The OFC Message Board has been shut down until further notice.

[laughn]

from the public side of the OFC

06/07/07 : Important Information Regarding OFC Message Board

By Team Clay

Due to reports of extensive unrest and disrespect amongst members that has been carrying on for several weeks, the Official Fan Club Message Board will be shut down until further notice. Please note that should tensions continue on other areas of the fan club, severe consequences may occur. If you try to log in to the board you should see a message reading, "Sorry, the board is unavailable at the moment. We will be back soon..."

We appreciate your understanding in this matter.

*sigh*

clayzorback wrote:

I don't mean it as a put down to everybody who just likes to have a general positive happy attitude in their fandom. If I don't happen to like something Clay is wearing or his latest haircut, I should be allowed to respectively say so, without someone trying to tell me I'm a bad fan because I said something, that in their opinion, was negative. Or accuse me of being a negative nellie. That is all.

Yep...totally agree

ldyjocelyn wrote:

Personally, I've always been intrigued by Clay's neckties and what could be done with those....

...anything other than camouflage and I'm with ya.

[Ansamcw]

Kind of O/T but also really puts things in perspective for me. This is the HDD article (found on CV) about Paul McCartney's projected first week sales, after leaving EMI and going with the Starbucks label.

MACCA MANS THE BISTROS

Starbucks Sales Help Push New Album to #1, with 180k in First-Week Sales

June 6, 2007

A new paradigm has arrived for the record industry, and it all took place in the local coffee shop.

Thanks to its presence in more than 9,000 Starbucks in the U.S. alone and a worldwide marketing campaign and set-up by Hear Music and Concord Music Group, Paul McCartney’s Memory Almost Full looks like it will debut at #1 on next week’s chart, with a total of 180k in first-week sales.

Now, granted, for him it is almost double what he sold in his first week for his last album, so I bet he's celebrating. But Macca, who to many is a God, only sells 180,000 in his first week, with the media campaign that he has had? Just reinforces, to me, how well ATDW did. JMO obviously.

YUP...perspective is a goood thing...

The thing about being called 'positive police', or being given any label, is that it's just that, it's a label. It doesn't define who I really am or how I think. When labels start flying, to me, it means someone disagrees with the way another person thinks and doesn't want to bother to either accept that difference or at least look closer at it. Somebody isn't willing to look at the subject from the other guy's point of view. Easier to slap a label on it like a construction site 'danger' sign so they can walk around it....which I guess is ok if there was really danger involved, but labeling other posters is just sort of silly to me. I can see no danger in reading another person's opinions, other than realizing my way might not be the only way to look at something. Meh.

That is a very astute way of thinking about it. I think labeling is something people naturally do to make it easy to organize a lot of information. In our minds we always label everything and everyone we know...from family, friend, co worker, enemy. I think it is natural that as people get to know one another on the boards we realize that certain people are more similar than others. Labels become a shorthand for people that share similar characteristics.

Of course the problem with labels is stereotyping. And it does prevent people from getting to know others that have labels that they may not agree with..as if that single label would define an individual. That is the danger of having labels but I do believe that in a social group such as Clay fandom...it is natural that groupings, factions and ergo labels will develop.

Positive Police...I know a lot of people may lump me with that group and with people like Couchie...I never thought it was a bad thing at all. While I do believe everyone is entitled to their opinion and should be able to respectfully critique Clay...I do think that there is a point when it could be detrimental to the overall Clay fan community when it starts to dominate the boards and when people just can't move on from the negative thoughts. So if my wish that people can move on to having fun and celebrating Clay after mourning the current hair/clothes/song choice/or controversy du jour get me labeled a positive police, I gladly accept that.

[muskifest]

06/07/07 : Important Information Regarding OFC Message Board

By Team Clay

Due to reports of extensive unrest and disrespect amongst members that has been carrying on for several weeks, the Official Fan Club Message Board will be shut down until further notice. Please note that should tensions continue on other areas of the fan club, severe consequences may occur. If you try to log in to the board you should see a message reading, "Sorry, the board is unavailable at the moment. We will be back soon..."

How fucking embarrassing.

[playbiller]

I certainly believe that people can dislikethings - I dislikethings, I just don't talk about it extensively.

Interesting note about the fan clubs. I wonder if people are going to be watching the blogs? That is where, I believe, a lot of the unrest in this fandom was deliberately fermented.

I really have to get to work - I have to finishe before DJS catches on that I have not completed the chart!

Edited June 7, 2007 by playbiller

[rcknrllmom]

FYI: The OFC Message Board has been shut down until further notice.

well isnt that interesting.....

[Clayzorback]

FYI: The OFC Message Board has been shut down until further notice.

OMG....................I'm sorry but I'm doing a happy dance here....... I hope they get rid of a certain group of people over there.

[rcknrllmom]

06/07/07 : Important Information Regarding OFC Message Board

By Team Clay

Due to reports of extensive unrest and disrespect amongst members that has been carrying on for several weeks, the Official Fan Club Message Board will be shut down until further notice. Please note that should tensions continue on other areas of the fan club, severe consequences may occur. If you try to log in to the board you should see a message reading, "Sorry, the board is unavailable at the moment. We will be back soon..."

How fucking embarrassing.

Actually, I like how you said it much better!!

[keepingfaith]

If I don't happen to like something Clay is wearing or his latest haircut, I should be allowed to respectively say so, without someone trying to tell me I'm a bad fan because I said something, that in their opinion, was negative. Or accuse me of being a negative nellie. That is all. I don't mean it as derogatory to all positive thinking people. Not at all. To me, negative nellies are fans who are not just giving an honest respectful differing opinion and moving on. They are just constant whiners and complainers who will never be satisfied. People who constantly grate on everyone's nerves with their inability to be ever be satisfied.

I think you are so right about this ... it's not the critiques that are the problem, but the attitude with which they are delivered. There are some posters who never miss an opportunity to add that extra spoonful of vinegar to their critical opinions ... and end up just leaving a bad taste in my mouth and giving me the shivers. Too much of that and I need some counteracting positive sweetness!

[Ansamcw]

I think this edit of mine would get lost with all the additional post and new controversy...

so I make a new post...

Clayzor...I kinda figured that was what you meant...I think another label for that is fan police and I certainly agree that those kind of behaviors are very frustrating to me too. Cos I don't think the fan police would like me very much...

OFCMB closed down...its about time I should say. I do hope they figure out how to best moderate that place. I am really shocked that certain threads are allowed to go on for so long....

[oldnaiken]

FYI: The OFC Message Board has been shut down until further notice.

I guess I jumped ship just in time!!

As for McCartney being called Macca, Loads of people called Mc or Mac get called Macca. I was born in Liverpool and am an expert in such things - honest, I am.

[keepingfaith]

FYI: The OFC Message Board has been shut down until further notice.

I guess I jumped ship just in time!!

As for McCartney being called Macca, Loads of people called Mc or Mac get called Macca. I was born in Liverpool and am an expert in such things - honest, I am.

Thanks! So then he really is "The Big Macca!"

Looks like you swam to shore just in time! What other parts of the fan club is Team Clay warning about? I guess the blogs and chat are still open -- but the only OFC blogs I've ever read have been Clay's and the one Jaymes wrote last summer! Does this mean new OFC Mods?

[jerrijan]

FYI: The OFC Message Board has been shut down until further notice.

OMG....................I'm sorry but I'm doing a happy dance here....... I hope they get rid of a certain group of people over there.

Now Clayzor you know they won't. Once you have roaches it's impossible to get rid of them.

My first post so glad that's over with lol

[YSRN]

FYI: The OFC Message Board has been shut down until further notice.

OMG....................I'm sorry but I'm doing a happy dance here....... I hope they get rid of a certain group of people over there.

I'm not. I'm fucking pissed.

Way fucking pissed. And mortified that adults can act like such complete judgemental assholes.

Embarrassing doesn't begin to cover it. I am totally ashamed of this fandom today. I hate this shit.

[Ansamcw]

FYI: The OFC Message Board has been shut down until further notice.

I guess I jumped ship just in time!!

As for McCartney being called Macca, Loads of people called Mc or Mac get called Macca. I was born in Liverpool and am an expert in such things - honest, I am.

I am sure you are :F_05BL17blowkiss: ...we have a Mc in our name too...but I guess that is not a Canadian thing.

Clayzor...whew what a rant. But I agree...some people just go too far in the name of protecting Clau and may be getting into cyber stalking or cyber bullying...pretty scary stuff.

so the blogs can get shut down too??? yikes...I agree this is really embarrassing. I am really embarrassed to think that Clay actually had to be told his fans are acting like children that have to go time out.

sheesh.

[Clayzorback]

I agree Ansamcw and I think we are seeing just how detrimental it got at OFC. It is embarrassing isn't it, muski, that Clay has to do this, but I think he really needs to do some houskeeping over there. I am just so glad that I stopped posting there and came here. I didn't want my name associated with that mess any longer.

Positive Police...I know a lot of people may lump me with that group and with people like Couchie...I never thought it was a bad thing at all. While I do believe everyone is entitled to their opinion and should be able to respectfully critique Clay...I do think that there is a point when it could be detrimental to the overall Clay fan community when it starts to dominate the boards and when people just can't move on from the negative thoughts. So if my wish that people can move on to having fun and celebrating Clay after mourning the current hair/clothes/song choice/or controversy du jour get me labeled a positive police, I gladly accept that.

YSRN I hear you. But I think the damage over there is so bad this was the only way they could get the attention of these grown adults, who don't know when to STFU. I'm pissed and embarrassed for Clay for new members to log on and see that shit. Something had to be done.

OMG jerrijan is here...................... :F_05BL17blowkiss: I love you babe. Welcome to the board.

ETA:

Does this mean new OFC Mods?

I don't know but, I sent in my recommendations a while back and I can recommend a few more if they need it.

Edited June 7, 2007 by Clayzorback

[jerrijan]

Clayzor!

I have to admit what happened at the OFC is pretty damn embarassing. I was shocked at what was going on and that nothing was done to stop it maybe the mods are just as fed up as many of the members.

The one that owns the board with the x's did post that she wanted it shut down guess she got her wish.

[00lsee]

I know feelings are running high on all sides of the OFC board issue, so here are some ((((HUGS)))) for those who need them.

Those photos of Leno Clay were, like, gah...and stuff.

[rcknrllmom]

Clayzor!

I have to admit what happened at the OFC is pretty damn embarassing. I was shocked at what was going on and that nothing was done to stop it maybe the mods are just as fed up as many of the members.

The one that owns the board with the x's did post that she wanted it shut down guess she got her wish.

HI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :F_05BL17blowkiss: glad to see you here...

[JennaZ]

While it is a bit embarrassing that the OFC board was shut down, it wouldn't be the first time a celebrity has shut down a fan board. I'm rather relieved, in a way. It wasn't a great representation of the fandom, but it was probably the one that many newer or less internet intensive fans came across. I was always irked that one of the least pleasant boards was one officially associated with him.

No doubt, there may be bad blogs, but those are much easier to avoid. Nasty comments to blogs could be monitored, but because of the format, distasteful entries are quickly displaced.

BTW - Welcome, all you former lurkers!

[Carolina Clay]

I've been in CHAT for the past 15 minues -- it's loaded, btw -- and a couple of mods are in there talking about all this. They didn't know the board was going to shut down until a few minutes before the others. :o

I rarely go the message board, so I am unfamiliar with what is being described. Sounds awful, and I know Jaymes/Clay under the Clayandr name have been reading certain threads, according to the reports in the chat room. I'm sad Clay's fan site has been treated this way by members.

ETA: Welcome, Jerrijan! I think you have the OFC solution.

Caro

Edited June 7, 2007 by Carolina Clay

[Couch Tomato]

OMG....................I'm sorry but I'm doing a happy dance here....... I hope they get rid of a certain group of people over there.

I'm happy too....and if I knew who to write I would write to say that it should stay closed permanently. Should I write Clique. Hell I live close enough to them..I can hang a banner at their front door. BURN THAT SUCKER DOWN. I'm sorry to those that the OFC is home but I really hate that place. And I'm sorry for Clay but respect has gone out the window. I know I'm really in no position to judge because I don't post there and gave up on it a long time ago. And there are people on both sides of the fence that I respect. However, the thought that a new fan would stop by OFC first sickens me.

Clayzor - there was nothing wrong with your post. You have been on the receiving end of a good intentions run amuck, if you even want to call it good intentions. I don't think I do.

Well as usual, the conversation has been great today. And in another way rather timely. I recieved a PM asking me to retire a certain No Pod People Allowed emoticon. Honestly on first read, I was not opposed to that and I'm the one that created the emoticon. I talked it over with Ansa and LdyJ to get feedback one of whom said...

it truly was funny for a while, and I think it was needed to allow some "venting" at FCA. It also pretty much stated that most of us felt the pod mentality was not a feeling that most of the members shared. However, lately I've had the idea that we do want the place to be welcoming...

and as part of the board philosphy:

I know we say :pod: but honestly, anyone is welcome as long as they aren't spewing a bunch of nonsense, or, if they are, they are willing to be told that they are spewing a bunch of nonsense.

Our board philosphy remains the same. Your ability to bring up any topic remains the same. The word poddie is not banned. We just want to open our door to anyone and for people to know you don't have to think one way to be welcome here. However, like all boards, you should probably read it for a bit to know if it's a place where you fit. That we don't get into wild conspiracies does not equal all is well and are of one hive mind. Yet, I have so much faith in our members to vigorously defend their position on any issue in a respectful way.

I love all the new members. This past week has been a joy to read and be a part of.

Feedback is welcome.