# 10 It isn't so easy to get your knickers off when they're in a knot.

[cha cha trusty]

You guys are killing me........ I'm still pages behind

AND I FEEL LIKE I'LL NEVER CATCH UP!!!

It's Saturday and I slept in - I had a horrible dream involving Clay and I had to rush here to make sure everything was all right!!

HE BLOGGED! I LOVE HIM! (I almost got to love him in my dream... I recall being somewhat naked!!)

THE MESSAGE BOARD IS SHUT DOWN????

I have a very low post count there too, 2-3, maybe 5 at the most!

I have been busy with the kids, last night we went to see Pirates of the Carribean. My oldest daughter and her hubby arrived here dressed in pirate gear, so we all had to scramble to find some head scarves and big earrings! Interestingly enough, the theatre was close to be full! The 6 of us had to split up and the kids all sat in teh 3rd row. Did I mention I love Johnny Depp too?? :medium-smiley-070:

Also - Paul McCartney's album was relesed 3 days ago and I d/l'd it from itunes yesterday. That led me to looking him up on youtube, which led me to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sc-cZES0WqM and this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GgGQS7wcXE --- if you have time to watch them, they are two of my favorite peeps in the world, Paul McCartney and Johnny Carson together on the Tonight Show.

THE UNCANNY PART IS THEY BOTH REMINDED ME OF CLAY! In the first part Paul comes in and the audience reacts exactly like Clay fans do. And in the second part, another guest comes on, and the focus is still on Paul (mostly) and then he picks up the guitar that lying there, and does an impromptu song, sort of like the valentine candy song. It just seemed like Paul was Clay at an earlier time, or Clay is Paul at a later time or something.... I sure wish Clay would play the piano at least once on the summer tour!!!

:F_05BL17blowkiss: :Tour3: :F_05BL17blowkiss:

HELP! I think I hit F12 or something and I have no borders or IE heading or anything! How do I get out out it!! I don't have a refresh button!!! Or an X!!!!!!! It's OK now, I hit the Windows button and right-clicked on the bottom to close the page........

Edited June 9, 2007 by cha cha trusty

[keepingfaith]

I am just waiting to hear HYCA sung to me this summer, then I can die happy. :TourExcite:

It is my dream that he sings HYCA as his opening song...."looking better than a body has a right to"

And for me, in my daydreams, I envision him opening with Right Here Waiting ... but truth be told, he could open with If You're Happy and You Know It and I'd be ecstatic!

[Couch Tomato]

Cha Cha...did you find your tool bar? You can hit view, toolbars and click on your missing ones..or close out and come back in. That usually works

[LovesClaysVoice]

And for me, in my daydreams, I envision him opening with Right Here Waiting ... but truth be told, he could open with If You're Happy and You Know It and I'd be ecstatic!

Oh keepingfaith, RHW would be a great opening too! :Tour3:

[bottlecap]

So I hear the fanclub mess will now be tabloid fodder. "We" only have ourselves to blame. But that won't stop us from not taking responsibility and it being the other fan's fault.

You're shittin' me, right? Oh good Lord. And people wonder why we've been painted with the "crazy Claymate" label.

A lot of mistakes were made with the message board. While I'm not totally convinced that posting the original story was either bad or good, and the modding there leaves a lot to be desired from what I hear, it all seems to me to boil down to an issue of respect, and knowing when to say "enough, I'm out." There were too many tenacious bulldogs on both sides of the fight who just kept gnawing and gnawing and gnawing. And, IMO, this was something that was a long time coming, it just needed a "spark," and that article was it.

In the meantime, I'm back to being pissed off at a fandom who can't look themselves in the mirror and see what the f*** is going on.

This pisses me off to no end. The Sharks' and the Jets' [tm somebody I can't remember] agendas were apparently more important than the well-being of the fandom and even Clay. IMO, the participants in that debacle owe Clay and the fanclub members an enormous public apology for the damage they caused. I hope the enforced break will give some of them time to reflect a bit on their actions and feel a little remorse, but I suppose it's doubtful that will happen.

[YSRN]

Let me know when YSRN hears about this. I'll put some Kevlar armor on then.

Thanks for making me laugh! I need it. I'm so fucking pissed AGAIN!!! Why do "we" have to be so fucking embarrassing!?! And ignorant to our own stupidity. And when I say we and our, I mean THEM! Yeah, I'm pointing fingers. Because, hello, the fans escalated this. Nobody else.

This pisses me off to no end. The Sharks' and the Jets' [tm somebody I can't remember] agendas were apparently more important than the well-being of the fandom and even Clay. IMO, the participants in that debacle owe Clay and the fanclub members an enormous public apology for the damage they caused. I hope the enforced break will give some of them time to reflect a bit on their actions and feel a little remorse, but I suppose it's doubtful that will happen.

Word, word, word. Especially the apology part. I could not be any more embarrassed.

I'm lettin' ya know, muski. When do you wanna start? I'm partially kidding. Partially. I never get involved in this kind of crap, but dammit... make.it.stop!

I think we need new shirts.... "I didn't do it"...

Edited June 9, 2007 by YSRN

[Couch Tomato]

I think we need new shirts.... "I didn't do it"...

Sad to say but my 7 year old nephew has one of those.heee

Bet the Sun is getting lots of hate mail and now they'll have enough material for a month. And I think real soon we'll get an idea of what a real tabloid is all about.

[laughn]

I don't see the 'fans' *gag* who caused this embarrassment to be any better about accepting responsibility for their actions than 'ol Paris H. Assholes.

editing because I need to not sound like such a sanctimonious bitch.

Truth is, I've played the mother role at times myself. But I know it's wrong. The man sure as hell doesn't need me to 'protect' him. He needs me as a fan to buy his music and tickets to his shows. Anymore of this kind of 'help' from his fans and Clay doesn't need to worry about his enemies.

Edited June 9, 2007 by laughn

[lightmyfire]

The OFC is my home board. I find the need to state my piece/peace in respect to the Page Six article and the aftermath. I am proud of every single post that I ever submitted to that board. I have always given great consideration to my thoughts prior to hitting submit. I entered the Press Forum which is usually my first stop when I log onto the board...I am a hard news junky. I entered the thread and viewed the article, read it several times. My assessment was that it read as a sexual orientation dig at Clay and also a diva dig. I stated that opinion and issued exactly two posts in that thread.

In fact, I wish I had posted a third stating that if the article was being treated as a '"sighting"..then the moderators should have moved the thread to the appropriate Sightings Forum..a forum that I don't enter and have no desire to read.

Yes, it was clear that as time went on that opposed factions infused their on going battle and positions to the discussion.

I, personally, refuse to take blame for the aftermath. When I make a mistake..I own up to it. But in this specific case, I have no regrets to the posts that I submitted. I stand by my position today as I did the day I submitted the posts.

[playbiller]

I am so pissed, so royally opissed, the not unexpected took place -= looks carefully around for children

F'ing idiots!

I am waiting for someone to say - "no it was not only so and so who caused the problem, I posted in the thread and it was me and I am sorry."

But no one issorry, it was always someone else fautl - "the mods should have stopped it yadda yadda yadda" - what are we a bunch of babies? We need to be watched at all times? There is no persoanal responsibility? There were no teenagers in that thread. Truthfully, when I went over the other day, I was not going to post anything, but I was so horrified at one of the posts, I really had to, but that is OK, everyone ignored me anyway - nothing new.. As to the mods ignoring the thread, I don't think they wanted to keep it open, I think admin may have asked them to step back to see how it devovled - devovled being my choice of words because there was little intelligence in that thread and a lot of animal instinct.

Well, I won't be good company, so I will take my leave until I can find something funny to post. A good long dog walk seems to be needed to work off a little anger.

Yes, it is not easy being a Clay fan, but it not because of anything outsidethe fandom. I wish the front page of the fan club said Get a clue, people!, but only for the people posting in that thread. Well, I guess that would include me even though I just suggested people self edit.

FYI - NJ and drunken driving

1. First offense - you are arrested and someone has to go to jail and bail you out (finding cash at 2 am is not easy, had to do it for family and friend!). 6 month suspension of lisense - you can drive to work

2. Second offense (after suspension is served!) 6 months in jail 2 year of suspension of license, no driving at all

3. Third offense (after suspension served) 2 years jail and never drive again.

Now there are get out of jail for free cards, like the drunk kid who hit our station wagon at a stop sign and pushed the car back 40 feet and up onto a curb. destroyed the first 1/4 of the car, we never found the front tire, my knees went through the dashboard and there are days when I have trouble walking now, my husbands glasses flew off and shattered the front window! But the person who hit us was the sum of a Newark cop and did not get a ticket. The cop said he would have only ticketed him if I went through the windshield (I have always worn a seat belt since they first put them in cars and this was 20 years ago).

Paris not only was arrested driving drunk, she was found violating the suspension twice and had been drinking both those times. It should have been treated as a third DUI and that has mandatory jail. She had her suspension agreement in her glove compartment, and she blamed her assitant for not informing her she could not drive???? I guess literacy is not important if you are rich.

Edited June 9, 2007 by playbiller

[YSRN]

The OFC is my home board. I find the need to state my piece/peace in respect to the Page Six article and the aftermath. I am proud of every single post that I ever submitted to that board. I have always given great consideration to my thoughts prior to hitting submit. I entered the Press Forum which is usually my first stop when I log onto the board...I am a hard news junky. I entered the thread and viewed the article, read it several times. My assessment was that it read as a sexual orientation dig at Clay and also a diva dig. I stated that opinion and issued exactly two posts in that thread.

In fact, I wish I had posted a third stating that if the article was being treated as a '"sighting"..then the moderators should have moved the thread to the appropriate Sightings Forum..a forum that I don't enter and have no desire to read.

Yes, it was clear that as time went on that opposed factions infused their on going battle and positions to the discussion.

I, personally, refuse to take blame for the aftermath. When I make a mistake..I own up to it. But in this specific case, I have no regrets to the posts that I submitted. I stand by my position today as I did the day I submitted the posts.

{{LMF}} You didn't write to The Sun. You didn't run to another board boasting about a mutiny. You didn't see an opportunity to take down a board and run with it. You didn't come from a place of control or hate. You didn't take any potshots at other fans. You saw what you saw and stated it. You didn't disrespect any mod decision. You didn't jump down anyone's throat. You didn't accuse, blame, carry on like an effing child.

I'm sorry you feel the need to defend yourself, especially if it's because of me. I feel bad that people took it upon themselves to take your home board away because they can't act like adults.

I hate this shit because it disrespected the people that DO act like adults and do think of the OFC as home, and it disrespected Clay -- the very person they are bending over backwards trying to protect. It backfired, people. As usual. Let the grown man take care of himself!

[Couch Tomato]

You know... there has been a fight for the control of the OFC since day one. I saw even back then and wanted no part of it. For insiders and outsiders I'm sure the perceptions are different. I wonder how Clay looks on it though, as an innie or an outie. I'm going to honestly state that had a mod on any other board said "I've decided it's ok to post it" there would not be such anarchy or questioning or hostility. Not saying people would have liked it but they wouldn't not have been so bold as to carry on like that all through the night. I just don't get where the idea that the board should be majority rule comes from. I know there aren't effective ways to complain but there has got to be a better way. I'm speaking in general terms. I don't think everybody in the thread had motives. But this turning into a national story is a shame and I just can't blame it all on the simple fact that silly little story was posted in the first place. I get google alerts every day of the week that aren't like first stories...but follow ups and comments becuase Clay Nation swarned them with mail. I worked for a newspaper. They aren't used to getting loads and loads of mail about something. And I'm frankly shocked that in 4 years we have yet to learn how to handle the press.

I agree with Play that now the most important thing to people is to assign blame. That does no good now. We need to look ahead and say...WHAT IF

What will I do IF the same mods return?

What will I do when I know I am being attacked by someone with hostile intentions.

What will I do when I see plotting on boards to shut down a thread.

What will I do when I see mods being equated with JP and other gnats that have been purposely set forth to ruin Clay.

What will I do when fans try to determine who is a good fan and a bad fan.

Time to move on from "is it a tablod? IMO

Time to move on from it's HER fault? Again IMO.

The only person being hurt by all of this is CLAY. The rest of us get to remain nameless and faceless.

And yep, hugs to light my fire, roseviolet, and others who post there on a more regular basis. This effects you more than it does me.

[Ansamcw]

lightmyfire... honestly...if I was a regular at OFC I probably would've posted too. I'm sure no one really saw that this would evolve into this big mess (oh except those that wanted this to happen) I just hope that I would be able to leave it at two posts the way that you did. I don't think having a opinion and posting it respectfully is the problem. I think its when people just don't know when to say enough is enough and let go of the argument. I see there are a lot of people in other boards that are continuing the argument...sigh

[lightmyfire]

The OFC is my home board. I find the need to state my piece/peace in respect to the Page Six article and the aftermath. I am proud of every single post that I ever submitted to that board. I have always given great consideration to my thoughts prior to hitting submit. I entered the Press Forum which is usually my first stop when I log onto the board...I am a hard news junky. I entered the thread and viewed the article, read it several times. My assessment was that it read as a sexual orientation dig at Clay and also a diva dig. I stated that opinion and issued exactly two posts in that thread.

In fact, I wish I had posted a third stating that if the article was being treated as a '"sighting"..then the moderators should have moved the thread to the appropriate Sightings Forum..a forum that I don't enter and have no desire to read.

Yes, it was clear that as time went on that opposed factions infused their on going battle and positions to the discussion.

I, personally, refuse to take blame for the aftermath. When I make a mistake..I own up to it. But in this specific case, I have no regrets to the posts that I submitted. I stand by my position today as I did the day I submitted the posts.

{{LMF}} You didn't write to The Sun. You didn't run to another board boasting about a mutiny. You didn't see an opportunity to take down a board and run with it. You didn't come from a place of control or hate. You didn't take any potshots at other fans. You saw what you saw and stated it. You didn't disrespect any mod decision. You didn't jump down anyone's throat. You didn't accuse, blame, carry on like an effing child.

I'm sorry you feel the need to defend yourself, especially if it's because of me. I feel bad that people took it upon themselves to take your home board away because they can't act like adults.

I hate this shit because it disrespected the people that DO act like adults and do think of the OFC as home, and it disrespected Clay -- the very person they are bending over backwards trying to protect. It backfired, people. As usual. Let the grown man take care of himself!

YSRN You KNOW I heart and you don't need to apologize. I just had the desire to express my feelings on the subject and my participation in that specific thread. I sincerely feel bad for the young fans.

[LovesClaysVoice]

The OFC is my home board. I find the need to state my piece/peace in respect to the Page Six article and the aftermath. I am proud of every single post that I ever submitted to that board. I have always given great consideration to my thoughts prior to hitting submit. I entered the Press Forum which is usually my first stop when I log onto the board...I am a hard news junky. I entered the thread and viewed the article, read it several times. My assessment was that it read as a sexual orientation dig at Clay and also a diva dig. I stated that opinion and issued exactly two posts in that thread.

In fact, I wish I had posted a third stating that if the article was being treated as a '"sighting"..then the moderators should have moved the thread to the appropriate Sightings Forum..a forum that I don't enter and have no desire to read.

Yes, it was clear that as time went on that opposed factions infused their on going battle and positions to the discussion.

I, personally, refuse to take blame for the aftermath. When I make a mistake..I own up to it. But in this specific case, I have no regrets to the posts that I submitted. I stand by my position today as I did the day I submitted the posts.

lightmyfire, I feel the same way you do. If I felt I was at fault with my posts I would own up to it. I have no regrets about my posts in that thread either. I left the thread for good as soon as it started to be a bloodbath.

I respect Clay immensely therefore I stood up for him on his OFC. I can't apologize for that and I won't. And in the words of the sexysingerman...."and I would do it again'.

[Couch Tomato]

Well to be honest I find more disrespect for Clay every day of the week by the fans of that board than I did in that throwaway article that nobody else paid attention to but the Clay fans. ANd therein lies my problem with this whole damn mess. There's a reason so many people don't want to go near the place and it didn't start with that thread. It always felt like 2 or 3 or 4 sides and the majority stuck in the middle.

[keepingfaith]

{{{YSRN}}} I love your point of view, and how well you deliver it. And, Couchie, your meet and greet story is priceless. Makes me wonder how the OFC will handle M&G's for this tour ... or if there will be any to handle! My friend, lightmyfire, you know how I feel about you!

I admit to having a tour-centric brain right now. The OFC troubles can't be undone by me, but as far as I'm concerned, the tour is mine! I checked the Houston/Jones Hall site this morning and the best available for 1 ticket was in Row Z, and for 2 tickets in the Balcony -- I think this show may well sell out. And I loved what the Houston Symphony has about Clay in their blurb:

http://www.houstonsymphony.org/ticket/prod...=1624&src=t

Now as far as jmh's set list I have only one questions ...... what happened to Why Don't We Do It In The Road? He mentioned upbeat "diddies" and songs he's never sung before .... :medium-smiley-070:

Edited June 9, 2007 by keepingfaith

[cha cha trusty]

Cha Cha...did you find your tool bar? You can hit view, toolbars and click on your missing ones..or close out and come back in. That usually works

Skipping out the door - but couchie - there WAS no View menu!! All the headings were gone!!!

Try it - hit F11 or F12 and see what happens!!

Later!! Going to see MIL and Uncle Hermann!! TTFN!

[Claygasm]

I don't think this is about driving with a suspended license. It's not that simple and really I'm not surprised Fox news painted it that way. Paris Hilton is a drunk driver. While she didn't this time, she could have killed someone driving while impaired. She got a slap on the wrist originally. Her license was suspended. Now had that been me I'd be on the damn bus. And had that been me with her money I'd have a cute boy driving me around. She chose to drive on that suspended license. She got caught. Again, they sent her on her way. And she once more got caught driving without a license. Court TV junkie right here.She almost may have ignored other parts of her sentence like community service but not quite sure. And instead of taking her punishment like a woman, she's trying to cry her way out of it. However, I do not believe that her being released is her fault and she should not be penalized further for it. She should just do her little 20 days and be done with it. (and I do think her 43 day sentence was probably high because of the intense focus - she's taking the fall for OJ, Robert Blake and every other celebrity that had money buy them out of a jam) But being sent home cuz you're depessed... well aren't all prisoners depressed and stressed, especially first timers? Let's see how far that strategy takes them.

Not to dredge up Paris Hilton again (and I did try to change the subject with purdy pictures....), but the part I bolded is why I am annoyed. I think while her original sentence was harsher than usual for someone who had done EXACTLY what she did and I do believe from day one the judge was using her as an example of how being a celebrity doesn't get you off in LA (mainly because the court system there is constantly under fire for allowing celebs to get off easy), once she was sentenced she should have just served it. Which she started to do. She didn't break out of prison. She was let out and it wasn't her fault - whatever the reason. She should NOT be punished any harsher than the original sentence stipulated because of the actions of others. That is what makes me feel sorry for her.

Hey CG..... . call me heartless... and while I agree the system is fucked up... it's really hard for me to feel for her.

Yeah...call me heartless too.

And I certainly don't think anyone would get 4 years for what she did. I was implying that I thought the hystryonics, attempts at manipulating the judicial system and/or calling in of political favors was seriously OTT for 45 days of punishment. This will be a blip in her life. Really.

My XSIL was severly head injured in a drunk driving accident when she was 17, she's in her 30's now and still living a dependant life with no chance of that ever changing.

I am sorry about your XSIL, and in no way am I condoning drunk driving, but that is not the point. First off, you don't anyone was calling in poiitical favors or manipulating anyone. Those are serious charges and there is no proof of that. Just rumor and speculation. I wouldn't be surprised if that were true, but regardless, whatever may or may not have gone on behind the scenes on her bahalf is not her doing and she should not be punished for the actions of others. If they want to punish someone, punish those involved.

As for just being a blip in her life? Well, she may not be at Riker's but she is not in a country club prison either. I think this will be far harder on her than you think. I bet you or I if we were there would hardly label 45 days in a county jail in what amounts to solitary just a blip in our lives.

Again, it is not about the original sentence she was given that has me feeling sorry for her. It is about the fact she seems to have had that sentence increased, in essence she is being further punished, for something she did NOT do. She is being used as a scapegoat because she is rich and famous. All she did was go to prison when she had to and leave when she was told she could. And I do not believe anyone should be punished for the actions of others.

And that is my last word on the subject.

So I hear the fanclub mess will now be tabloid fodder. "We" only have ourselves to blame. But that won't stop us from not taking responsibility and it being the other fan's fault.

You're shittin' me, right? Oh good Lord. And people wonder why we've been painted with the "crazy Claymate" label.

A lot of mistakes were made with the message board. While I'm not totally convinced that posting the original story was either bad or good, and the modding there leaves a lot to be desired from what I hear, it all seems to me to boil down to an issue of respect, and knowing when to say "enough, I'm out." There were too many tenacious bulldogs on both sides of the fight who just kept gnawing and gnawing and gnawing. And, IMO, this was something that was a long time coming, it just needed a "spark," and that article was it.

In the meantime, I'm back to being pissed off at a fandom who can't look themselves in the mirror and see what the f*** is going on.

This pisses me off to no end. The Sharks' and the Jets' [tm somebody I can't remember] agendas were apparently more important than the well-being of the fandom and even Clay. IMO, the participants in that debacle owe Clay and the fanclub members an enormous public apology for the damage they caused. I hope the enforced break will give some of them time to reflect a bit on their actions and feel a little remorse, but I suppose it's doubtful that will happen.

This fanclub crap has hit the tabloids? This is getting absurd! My first thought is wht would anyone care? I don't even care that much except its embarrassing and I am in the damn fanclub? Why would any tabloid reader give two shoots in hell about Clay's fanclub?

The OFC is my home board. I find the need to state my piece/peace in respect to the Page Six article and the aftermath. I am proud of every single post that I ever submitted to that board. I have always given great consideration to my thoughts prior to hitting submit. I entered the Press Forum which is usually my first stop when I log onto the board...I am a hard news junky. I entered the thread and viewed the article, read it several times. My assessment was that it read as a sexual orientation dig at Clay and also a diva dig. I stated that opinion and issued exactly two posts in that thread.

LMF, I am sorry for you about everything that happened on the OFC message board. But I have to ask. How did you get out of that page 6 piece any dig at Clay's sexual orientation? I get the diva part (but that never bothers me because in some ways Clay does act like a diva from time to time. I kind of think its cute!). But where was the sexual orientation dig? With all do respect, IMO, to see that you have to be really looking for it. And I think that is part of the problem. I mean this in general about the fandom not about LMF or anyone is particular, but I think there is a tendency to try and see the dig in every piece about Clay. There is rampant paranoia in this fandom and the need to find how this writer or that writer did him wrong is so strong it seems as if we find digs where there are none.

I said it at that time and still have the same reaction, but I thought that page 6 piece was hysterical. I thought it was meant to be snark, meant to be funny. I thought they took a REAL situation and reported it in a snarky funny way. Were they laughing at Clay? Probably. But I bet in retrospect Clay would have laughed at himself. JMO and all that.

Still, what happened on that board is certainly not your fault, LMF, anymore than it would have been mine if I had posted what I just did here. The problem goes far deeper than that.

[laughn]

lightmyfire, I know I posted right before you did. I edited my post because, even to me, I sounded like a sanctimonious bitch. I wasn't trying to yell at everyone who calls the OFC home or even everyone who posted in that thread. I'm just ticked at the people with agendas who wanted to win the tug of war with no thought to who might, and in this case I think it was Clay, get drug through the mud in the process.

What will I do IF the same mods return?

What will I do when I know I am being attacked by someone with hostile intentions.

What will I do when I see plotting on boards to shut down a thread.

What will I do when I see mods being equated with JP and other gnats that have been purposely set forth to ruin Clay.

What will I do when fans try to determine who is a good fan and a bad fan

Good questions, and lots to think about.

[ldyjocelyn]

And yep, hugs to light my fire, roseviolet, and others who post there on a more regular basis. This effects you more than it does me.

I hate this shit because it disrespected the people that DO act like adults and do think of the OFC as home, and it disrespected Clay -- the very person they are bending over backwards trying to protect. It backfired, people. As usual. Let the grown man take care of himself!

Amen to both you ladies. I really do feel badly for those people who consider the place their home board and were trying their best to post in a respectful manner...only to have the whole thing de-evolve into bickering like 8 year-olds.

I agree with Play that now the most important thing to people is to assign blame. That does no good now. We need to look ahead and say...WHAT IF

What will I do IF the same mods return?

What will I do when I know I am being attacked by someone with hostile intentions.

What will I do when I see plotting on boards to shut down a thread.

What will I do when I see mods being equated with JP and other gnats that have been purposely set forth to ruin Clay.

What will I do when fans try to determine who is a good fan and a bad fan.

Time to move on from "is it a tablod? IMO

Time to move on from it's HER fault? Again IMO.

couchie, if I were you, I'd post that list on every damn board you can get it to. People need to see it -- it might make them stop and think a bit.

The only person being hurt by all of this is CLAY. The rest of us get to remain nameless and faceless.

Ah yes, the anonymous nature of the internet. What a wonderful thing. *barf*

I think its when people just don't know when to say enough is enough and let go of the argument.

AND

I left the thread for good as soon as it started to be a bloodbath.

This is what I was talking about earlier -- some people were smart enough to realize that it was fruitless and pointless to keep the whole thing going, so once they'd said their piece, they left. Some people, however, HAVE to win. That, to me, turned into the whole gist of the problem.

Right now, I'm very glad for a few things about the FCA board. One, we're still small, although I do love the recent growth spurt in the past week. And two, we're using the linear thread idea, rather than threads for each and every little tidbit of Clay's life. Why? Because the gist of this article was posted last week here. I'm the one who did it, although I just summarized it rather than post it word for word. (I debated that actuallly...but that's neither here nor there at this point). What happened? A few people didn't like the article. Just as many were OK with it. We discussed it, respectfully. And then...we moved on. It got out of out of our system, and the next topic came up.

Again, I'm sorry for those people who are coming out of this thing battered and bruised, but there are just as many that I'm not very happy with at the moment. And who is in the middle? Clay.

The fan wars just have to stop, and that means that someone has to put down that keyboard and walk away, and know when that point is when it becomes detrimental.

:angry22:

[lightmyfire]

Claygasm - I have 150 plus posts on the OFC message board. I never have and never will care about Clay's sexual orientation. It is his life, his private life is his. His sexual orientation is his. I have always attempted to stay FAR away from the subject. I don't perv over Clay. I don't care about his genitalia and what action he takes with it. The Page Six article was clearly a sexual orientation dig and I didn't have to dig to get it. Synchronized swimming is a sport developed by CANADIANS..the readership of the publication and is viewed as a FEMALE sport, the Olympic committee refuses males to participate. So, I didn't dig to find the intent. It was crystal clear to ME....Others didn't view it the way I did...that is fine.

I didn't go after the moderator's decision ....

I, personally, don't believe any gossip/tabloid material should be submitted on Clay's OFC due to the fact that thirteen year old members would have access to it. Just as I don't believe the term "Waldo" should be submitted on that site/board.

Edited June 9, 2007 by lightmyfire

[Couch Tomato]

LMF, I am sorry for you about everything that happened on the OFC message board. But I have to ask. How did you get out of that page 6 piece any dig at Clay's sexual orientation? I get the diva part (but that never bothers me because in some ways Clay does act like a diva from time to time.

Get back there and get me some chicken! LOL. What happened to us loving Pissy!Diva!Clay! This fandom has changed so much. Has the tabloid garbage taken away our sense of humor. I guess the terrorists have won. And isn't there degrees to a diss? I mean if I have to think too long and hard about something then it's not an effective diss. I can see equating Clay and synchronized swimming as being a wussy diss but why is it a gay diss? And do we ban all less than manly mentions in the press? And do we ban all less than lovely mentions by the posters cuz the place would be a ghost town.

I'm enjoying the discussion. It's a hard subject to delve into and it's an emotional issue...but if we just come at it from a place of trying to understand we'll be fine.

lightmyfire I really appreciate your perspective.

And can somebody pm me...reading around today I feel ike I'm in the dark about some things..instigators and such. Actually you can post it on the board if you want to. I don't really care. Either way. I'm nosy. Is it just the factions at OFC which I take are good fan/bad fan/mod/those that want them gone/trolls/respect/non respsect...did I cover everything?

Hey CG... I like the Paris talk!! For now..I'll be sick of her by the end of that sentence though, and the book deal that will come after, and the reality show, and the interviews. heee.

[lightmyfire]

The banning action has zero value as banned members return.

[Claygasm]

The Page Six article was clearly a sexual orientation dig and I didn't have to dig to get it.

LMF, see to me it wasn't clear and even after you explained it I barely get it. So, I either I am just dense or it wasn't "clearly a sexual orientation dig" to everyone.

LMF, I am sorry for you about everything that happened on the OFC message board. But I have to ask. How did you get out of that page 6 piece any dig at Clay's sexual orientation? I get the diva part (but that never bothers me because in some ways Clay does act like a diva from time to time.

Get back there and get me some chicken! LOL. What happened to us loving Pissy!Diva!Clay! This fandom has changed so much. Has the tabloid garbage taken away our sense of humor. I guess the terrorists have won. And isn't there degrees to a diss? I mean if I have to think too long and hard about something then it's not an effective diss. I can see equating Clay and synchronized swimming as being a wussy diss but why is it a gay diss?

See couchie, I DO love me some Pissy!Diva!Clay! and I think that is why that part of their snark didn't bother me.

And I am glad I am not the only one who didn't get the gay diss...

But, this is just ridiuclous. Now it is being reported that the NE has contacted JP for a comment and he gave one (why there are still fans who insist on following JP and PH et. al. is beyond me!)! And you know what? THE FANS TURNED AN SIMPLE, SNARKY REPORT ON AN ACTUAL HAPPENING INTO TABOID FODDER!!

The fans who contacted the Calgary Sun. The fans who let a war explode over at the OFC. The fans who are following what JP or PH are saying.

This is just one example why Clay's fans are his own worst enemy. How many times are the fans going to shoot themselves - and Clay - in the foot before they realize they aren't doing him any favors?

This should have just been one IMO hysterical mention on a gossip page of a newpaper. But no. The fans had to read things into it that may or may not have been intended and start a war with both the newpaper and anyone who dared disagree with them on Clay's own damn fanclub message board and voila! They handed the tabloids another "scandal"!

Sorry, but the tabloids don't get the blame in my book this time. The fans do. They only have themselves to blame for any consequences Clay has to endure and they only have themselves to be pissed at.

And they owe Clay a big fat apology.

Color me an angry, embarrassed and somewhat sad Clay fan.