#11 I love me some Clay Aiken! He (soft) rocks *g*

[Claygasm]

There is some kind of strange alchemy going on in the music business ... black is white and up is down. Kelly Clarkson sold 15 millions albums, won Grammies, has been the darling of Top 40 radio, gets tons of publicity and her career appears to be in crisis mode right now. Clay, on the other hand, has never had radio, his most recent album didn't go platinum, he hasn't ever been nominated for a Grammy, and yet he seems to be on a trajectory to the stratosphere. I guess industry insider conventional wisdom just ain't what it used to be!!!

I would hardly call Kelly's career in crisis. I think she received some very bad advise (about the tyoe of venues to book for her tour) and there is a lot of controversy surrounding her album. But, she's probably easily going to go at least double platinum and she will tour, probably in the fall, at venues more appropriately sized. She'll be fine.

As for Clay, I haven't seen or heard anything that would indicate he is headed for the stratosphere! He is looking for a producer for his next album. He was in California to meet with someone and he'll be in London to meet with someone. I think its a stretch to think he was in Paris to meet with a producer and in Spain to meet with a producer. He told us about the others, why not those too? Anyway, that is all we know. We know nothing about this album. It probably won't be released until late next year. Other than that, he is about to embark on a symphonic tour and he's not selling out small venues - at least not yet. And he'll be singing at a Christmas ice skating special. Nothing in any of that indicates he is headed to the stratosphere. But he too will be fine.

I truly believe both he and Kelly will have long careers. My gut tells me Clay may never have the kind of commercial success Kelly has had, but that's ok because I have every confidence that with a bit of luck along the way, he will be around for a really long time. I don't need him in the stratosphere. I just need him here, singing to meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee for a long time to come.

[playbiller]

FYI - the price is rising on Clay's shirt - an interloper thought she could sneak inwith a little rise in price. Should be an interesting evening.

Things I have learned about this tour.

1. it is cheaper to be 62 - since I am not, but it is not cheaper

2. AARP and AAA cards really reduce the rate on a hotel room

3. Don't try and book on line, you can't get the special rates then. Find the hotel on line and call them directly.

Edited June 15, 2007 by playbiller

[Claygasm]

FYI - the price is rising on Clay's shirt - an interloper thought she could sneak inwith a little rise in price. Should be an interesting evening.

Things I have learned about this tour.

1. it is chaper to be 62 - since I am not, it is not cheaper

2. AARP and AAA cards really reduce the rate on a hotel room

3. Don't try and book on line, you can't get the special rates then. Find the hotel on line and call them directly.

Play, I have book many AAA rates online for this tour. Most of the hotel websites, as opposed to Expedia etc., have them. Sometimes they hide where to request them, but they're there. They don't make it easy, that's for sure!

[luckiest1]

You know, this says it all for me. I've always seen Clay as that tortoise (yeppers, hard shell connotations and all...) in the race. He's here for the long haul...and although he loves attention and spotlights, etc., I really think he'd prefer to have a type of career that allows him SOME privacy and real life and down time and creative freedom to just....

LIVE and enjoy, you know? Again, I see people like Linda Ronstadt who enjoy long careers, make a living from their talent, but don't live FOR the commercial gain of that talent. I have no idea what Linda does with her time or her money or her 'celebrity', but we know what Clay has told us he wants to do with his. I could imagine him seeking that balance of creating a celebrity for himself that is just enough to ensure that he can both continue to do what he loves---sing with that gifted voice---and be able to make that singing MEAN something greater...

I lurve him. I'll be here, whether he's #1 on five million charts or just hanging around with just a few CDs in the record stores....

This is a great explanation for the way I feel about things, too. :applause:

As for Clay, I haven't seen or heard anything that would indicate he is headed for the stratosphere! He is looking for a producer for his next album. He was in California to meet with someone and he'll be in London to meet with someone. I think its a stretch to think he was in Paris to meet with a producer and in Spain to meet with a producer. He told us about the others, why not those too? Anyway, that is all we know. We know nothing about this album. It probably won't be released until late next year. Other than that, he is about to embark on a symphonic tour and he's not selling out small venues - at least not yet. And he'll be singing at a Christmas ice skating special. Nothing in any of that indicates he is headed to the stratosphere. But he too will be fine.

I guess it all depends your your definition of "stratosphere". I think Clay's done remarkably well and is still very well-placed in the industry 4 years post-Idol. His tours are consistent sellers. Venues want him back. He has a core fan base that he can count on. He is the exclusive musical guest for a Christmas Day NBC special. His last album went gold. He has made some great friends and contacts in the business, and is currently shopping his next album around to producers around the globe. ETA: He appears frequently as a guest on TV talk shows. I bet there are lots of artists who wish they were in his shoes.

As for Kelly, I think this series of setbacks will hurt her album sales, but not significantly. I bet she'll sell just fine, and I bet her tour (once it is rescheduled into appropriate sized venues) will do just fine, too. I bet she and Clay have lots to talk about whenever they get together. :eusa_whistle:

Edited June 15, 2007 by luckiest1

[JennaZ]

3. Don't try and book on line, you can't get the special rates then. Find the hotel on line and call them directly.

Very true. In fact, it's usually better to get the local number and call the hotel, rather than a national number (1-800). Personally, I've also found it best not to book through sites like Expedia or Travelocity, because if you want to make changes, it can be a hassle, and they may charge you when the hotel would not. The travel sites are good for getting information and for comparing prices, but I think it's always better to deal with the hotel itself.

To me, it's a bit premature to evaluate the status of Kelly's career. The tour sales are a sign, but they were dealing with very large venues. It would have been different if they were cancelling 3,000-5,000 seat theatres. I'd wait for the first week sales to have a sense of where she is. Her album is #14 on the Amazon.com (third in pre-orders). Last time I checked, I think it was #5 on iTunes. Internet pre-orders don't always mean much, but they do tell me that there is still interest in her music. However, whether this means a 100K or a 500K first week, I couldn't tell you. It would be interesting to know what industry expectations are for this album, and whether she meets them or not.

I'd bet that if she opens at #1 with respectable numbers, a lot of the talk will go away.

[Ansamcw]

3. Don't try and book on line, you can't get the special rates then. Find the hotel on line and call them directly.

Very true. In fact, it's usually better to get the local number and call the hotel, rather than a national number (1-800). Personally, I've also found it best not to book through sites like Expedia or Travelocity, because if you want to make changes, it can be a hassle, and they may charge you when the hotel would not. The travel sites are good for getting information and for comparing prices, but I think it's always better to deal with the hotel itself.

To me, it's a bit premature to evaluate the status of Kelly's career. The tour sales are a sign, but they were dealing with very large venues. It would have been different if they were cancelling 3,000-5,000 seat theatres. I'd wait for the first week sales to have a sense of where she is. Her album is #14 on the Amazon.com (third in pre-orders). Last time I checked, I think it was #5 on iTunes. Internet pre-orders don't always mean much, but they do tell me that there is still interest in her music. However, whether this means a 100K or a 500K first week, I couldn't tell you. It would be interesting to know what industry expectations are for this album, and whether she meets them or not.

I'd bet that if she opens at #1 with respectable numbers, a lot of the talk will go away.

Totally agree Jenna. In light of the cancellation of the tour...now I see the firing of her manager as a birlliant move on Kelly's part. Now she can have apublic reconciliation with RCA...or simply say she didn;t want that to be the focus of the CD...and RCA can now quietly support her songs on radio once again and get a hit or two. I bet she opens in number 1 at around 250 to 300K and she will sell at least double plat and she will tour in the fall with a more realistic venues to sold out crowds. she will be fine.

I also temper my expectations about Clay. I would love him to be on the way to the stratosphere...but its also ok ifi ts a more slow and steady journey. He is also more than ok.

eta: hee keepingfaith...love your scenario....I certainly hope you are right!!!

[keepingfaith]

I think Kelly is in a redefining mode right now ... and I would call it a bit of a crisis when a tour gets cancelled just weeks before the opening date and days before the album release, and you've just fired your manager, and have been in a very public battle with Clive Davis. Doesn't mean she won't come out on top .. just sayin' that things aren't rosy for her right now. I wonder if she's considering Renshaw since he's known as a bit of a rebel in the industry.

No, things aren't nearly as bad right now for Kelly as for poor Taylor. He's had concerts canceled (the smaller venue kind), and they're having trouble giving away free tickets at the radio station here. People were winning radio contests and when told they had won Taylor Hicks tickets were asking, "Ya got anything else?" Finally, the DJ said something like, Okay people we've got some tickets for the Taylor Hicks show and if you want 'em, give us a call.

I don't think I'm overstating Clay's trajectory to the stratosphere. Clay is a phenomenon and I'm not going to downplay him in any way. He's going to have his own TV show, you know. He'll be a star in concert, in the recording studio, on Broadway, on TV, in Vegas, and he'll go international. I think Kelly Clarkson will be plenty successful in her career, but not like her old pal Clay Aiken.

[cindilu2]

I think Kelly is in a redefining mode right now ... and I would call it a bit of a crisis when a tour gets cancelled just weeks before the opening date and days before the album release, and you've just fired your manager, and have been in a very public battle with Clive Davis. Doesn't mean she won't come out on top .. just sayin' that things aren't rosy for her right now. I wonder if she's considering Renshaw since he's known as a bit of a rebel in the industry.

No, things aren't nearly as bad right now for Kelly as for poor Taylor. He's had concerts canceled (the smaller venue kind), and they're having trouble giving away free tickets at the radio station here. People were winning radio contests and when told they had won Taylor Hicks tickets were asking, "Ya got anything else?" Finally, the DJ said something like, Okay people we've got some tickets for the Taylor Hicks show and if you want 'em, give us a call.

I don't think I'm overstating Clay's trajectory to the stratosphere. Clay is a phenomenon and I'm not going to downplay him in any way. He's going to have his own TV show, you know. He'll be a star in concert, in the recording studio, on Broadway, on TV, in Vegas, and he'll go international. I think Kelly Clarkson will be plenty successful in her career, but not like her old pal Clay Aiken.

Girl, I like the way you think!

As for all the Kelly stuff, mehhh, except for the actual fact of the cancelled tour - the rest of it just smacks of... manipulation. Every single thing I read just makes my eyes scrunch up and my mouth twist just a little more.

[muskifest]

No, things aren't nearly as bad right now for Kelly as for poor Taylor. He's had concerts canceled (the smaller venue kind), and they're having trouble giving away free tickets at the radio station here. People were winning radio contests and when told they had won Taylor Hicks tickets were asking, "Ya got anything else?" Finally, the DJ said something like, Okay people we've got some tickets for the Taylor Hicks show and if you want 'em, give us a call.

Holy Shit! Can you imagine if this happened with Clay Aiken tickets? Can you imagine the calls that dj would get if he said, "Okay people we've got some tickets for the Clay Aiken show and if you want 'em, give us a call."???????????

And I ain't just talking about people calling to get tickets! There would be some people going Clay Aiken fan on that dj's ass for sounding dismissive or disrespectful, etc.

God. That's awful.

[luckiest1]

Hey, do we have a thread for Vegas planning yet?

I'm kind of thinking seriously about attending.

[Claygasm]

No, things aren't nearly as bad right now for Kelly as for poor Taylor. He's had concerts canceled (the smaller venue kind), and they're having trouble giving away free tickets at the radio station here. People were winning radio contests and when told they had won Taylor Hicks tickets were asking, "Ya got anything else?" Finally, the DJ said something like, Okay people we've got some tickets for the Taylor Hicks show and if you want 'em, give us a call.

You're kidding! OMG, I shouldn't laugh because that's kind of sad, but since I never liked him its kind of making me giggle. I bet somewhere Simon Cowell is thrilled.

I don't think I'm overstating Clay's trajectory to the stratosphere. Clay is a phenomenon and I'm not going to downplay him in any way. He's going to have his own TV show, you know. He'll be a star in concert, in the recording studio, on Broadway, on TV, in Vegas, and he'll go international. I think Kelly Clarkson will be plenty successful in her career, but not like her old pal Clay Aiken.

You could be right, but I am always one who always felt that Clay was never as big as some in this fandom made him out to be - even at his height. He was all over the media but when you think of it, as well as MOAM sold, it wasn't the phenomenon it seemed at the time. In 4 years it has yet to sell 3 million, and about 20% of what it did sell were sold in the first week. It fell rather quickly, if I remember correctly. Most non-fans I know wonder what happened to him. Actually, most non-fan I know who never watched AI have no clue who he is at all! If you aren't a fan, you probably don't know about the tours and unless you stumble upon Kimmel or Leno on nights he is on you probably don't know about those either. He just isn't that big in the real world.

I am not saying he hasn't done well. He has. But outside of a relatively small, albeit crazy enthusiastic fanbase, he isn't more than a recognizable name from the past, if that. Unfortunately, he is probably better known for all the rumors and speculations than his singing.

At least as of now.

I do think if he wants it and all the stars align just right he could be a mega-star of the concert stage, or the recording industry, on Broadway or TV or Vegas. He could even become an international superstar. But he is right now, IMO, nowhere close and doesn't to my uninformed eye seem to be on any path to all that. Doesn't mean he isn't talented enough, because he is. Doesn't mean all that isn't part of his master plan, because it may be. But I don't see it. Not yet.

To me, if he is any kind of phenomenon he is more of a cultural phenomenon than an artistic one. He, or at least his name and his "image" have sort of become part of pop culture. But that is a long way from having a long and successful career.

Again, I think he is talented enough to achieve everything he wants to achieve. But a lot of things other than talent go into having that kind of success. Besides, I have never been convinced Clay wants to be shot into the stratosphere. I think he just wants to be successful enough to do the things he loves to do and wants to do.

I don't need him to be the biggest star on the planet. If that's what he wants then I hope it happens. I'm selfish. As long as he is successful enough to keep entertaining me (because its really all about me.... ), and as long as he is happy with his career (because I am not completely selfish!), then I'm happy.

[ldyjocelyn]

I was going to quote lots of people here, but then I got stuck at the reference desk, and there's no time to do a full response, but I did want to say something about Clay's career and "stratosphere"." (Hey, that rhymes!) To me, I think a LOT of this all comes down to "wants" vs. "needs." Do I want his career to have a stratospheric trajectory? Of course I do...if of course, that's what HE wants. But I truly do want the best for him. Do I NEED to have him have that trajectory? Nope. He seems to be doing pretty darn well at the moment, and right now I am content with watching his career unfold at the pace I think he's set. I get the feeling though that more than a few fans NEED him to be at that upper echelon of stardom, because IMO it justifies their feelings toward him (which they can't explain to others).

Also, another quick point: there's a timetable to consider. Again, I feel some fans think that he should be at superstar level RIGHT FUCKING NOW! And there's no placating them otherwise. Meanwhile, I'm really like muski in that I feel things happen in their time, and maybe Clay is really planning on a slow and steady career. I've used the "slow and steady wins the race" thing more often than not on Clay Aiken fan boards. I want Clay around for a long time, rather than burn out in a few years. I think Clay realizes that as well.

CG, I agree with you that Kelly's career isn't in "crisis" mode over this tour thing -- but gosh, reading the headlines in the online media sources, you would think so. I think I've actually seen "crisis" used a few times. (Right now, no time to look for them though....) That's where I can see cindilu's point as being manipulation. I'm not all the way convinced that everything is a publicity stunt....but there's definitely some spin going on, IMO. I truly think she'll be fine, sell at least a million copies of the new album, have a reasonably successful tour this summer/fall, and have a great career.

[keepingfaith]

There would be some people going Clay Aiken fan on that dj's ass for sounding dismissive or disrespectful, etc.

God. That's awful.

And the DJ was the God-awful Sam Malone. I absolutely cannot listen to that man, so the info came to me from a friend who's been hearing this go on re Taylor Hicks.

[Ansamcw]

WORD Claygasm. That is why I didn't have a hard time believing that what happened to ATDW was simply de-prioritizing of the project with RCA. Of course in the fans eyes Clay's 2nd CD should and is more important than JT or Xtina's projects. But realistically...he is not quite in their league yet. I do believe it will happen...someday. But I am not that invested on being right. I just want him to have respect and a good long career.

[playbiller]

While I agree that all I need is Clay to keep singing for me. I specifically recall that MOAM fell off the charts the same time that all the clear channel stations stopped playing it on the radio. Until then it was chugging along just fine.

I see (in the future) Clay as a long time respected performer and eventually, as a human being. I just remember that some of the most respected performers never sold well. I am not talking about a Wayne Newton kind of career, more of a Tony Bennett career, except that Clay's other talents are more openly entertaining and less static than Tony's (painting). I never see him dating anyone younger than his granddaughter though, perhaps that is a bit of a prejudice on my part. I see Clay more as actor, humorist, as well as singing.

YMMV

[Ansamcw]

I see (in the future) Clay as a long time respected performer and eventually, as a human being. I just remember that some of the most respected performers never sold well. I am not talking about a Wayne Newton kind of career, more of a Tony Bennett career, except that Clay's other talents are more openly entertaining and less static than Tony's (painting). I never see him dating anyone younger than his granddaughter though, perhaps that is a bit of a prejudice on my part. I see Clay more as actor, humorist, as well as singing.

YMMV

I see that too Play...I know that some fans get frustrated cos Clay seem to focus on more than just his music...but he is a much more well rounded performer than just a singer. I am looking forward to seeing all his assets fully evolved.

[cindilu2]

WORD Claygasm. That is why I didn't have a hard time believing that what happened to ATDW was simply de-prioritizing of the project with RCA. Of course in the fans eyes Clay's 2nd CD should and is more important than JT or Xtina's projects. But realistically...he is not quite in their league yet. I do believe it will happen...someday. But I am not that invested on being right. I just want him to have respect and a good long career.

The critics didn't have any problem pitting him against JT when the CD dropped though. I'm sure I read more than one article citing them as being in competition. *shrug* Not really something I want to debate anyway. He's *my* sexyback. Always will be! I've always said Clay will have exactly the career he wants to have, and I've never been convinced that involved being a superstar. I've seen nothing that alters that belief for me.

eta: Ansa wrote

Yes they are in competition but not in the same level...YET. I think for RCA...he needs another multi-platinum project to be given the same priority.

And to get that multi-platinum project, he needs support, and to get support he needs another multi.... Kinda makes you want to run screaming into the night, huh?

Have I ever mentioned that this is my all-time favorite smiley?

Edited June 15, 2007 by cindilu2

[Ansamcw]

Yes they are in competition but not in the same level...YET. I think for RCA...he needs another multi-platinum project to be given the same priority.

yup he is my sexyback too.

[playbiller]

OK, serious bidding going on for that shirt now

Nancy and Diana are fighting for it, it is up to 4K

Don't see anything else being bid up, though.

[cindilu2]

WOOHOO -- new thread for discussion of the globe-trotting Clay Aiken ... or what Bottlecap said!

While Clay has been celebrating his teacher's retirement, chilling, and flying to London in search of a producer, I received a link from a musician friend of an amazing performance on "Britain's Got Talent":

. (There are several versions, and the number of views, comments, etc., is unreal.)

Here is another: Six-Year-Old Makes Them Cry. (This video ends with Eva Cassidy softly singing the same song.)

Have a great day, all! :F_05BL17blowkiss:

Caro

Awww, these are even sweeter the second time you watch. The sincerity of the opera fellow, and his expression as he finishes singing is just priceless. And that little girl could melt rocks with that smile! What a sweetheart, and she sings... like a six year old girl/angel. Very, very sweet.

You know, you'd think after the years as an on-line Clay fan that I wouldn't be surprised at anything I read on the web. But some of the vile comments on that sweet young girls youtube are... I can't even come up with a word. I hate knowing that there really are such cowardly, hate-filled individuals in the world, so twisted that they would take the time to spew their bile at the expense of a six-year old child.

Sigh.

[JennaZ]

CG, I agree with you that Kelly's career isn't in "crisis" mode over this tour thing -- but gosh, reading the headlines in the online media sources, you would think so. I think I've actually seen "crisis" used a few times.

I know what you mean. This news is everywhere, and the headlines are pretty negative, even if the articles aren't that bad. That's why I don't believe this is a publicity ploy.

I know some believe that her fall in radio play is largely due to lack of label support, but I do wonder whether a song as dark and angry as "Never Again" connects with audiences in the summer. I mean, I know Pink's "U + Your Hand" is pretty angry, but that's been out awhile. One song I heard on SYTYCD that I loved was "Girlfriend," which I was a bit surprised came from Avril Lavigne. It is SO pop. In fact, I've read reviews calling it "cheerleader pop." (Anyone know why Avril went so pop?) Yes, it's fluffy and a little adolescent, but you know what? It's a fun, catchy song. I'm not saying that Kelly has to go that route. I just wonder if that's more of what young, female listeners want these days.

Still, "Never Again" is still in the Top 20 in Singles and Downloads, which makes me think that there are people who will buy her music. And maybe she'd rather perform the kind of music that she loves than stay a superstar. She has plenty of money. She's won Grammys. She may not mind being an artist who only goes plantinum rather than multiplatinum.

[bluebunny]

he sure can pack lots

from ldyjocelyn

and

Blow-out Pre-Doing Clay who is Rock Hard party

from Claygasm

Ah.....I love good smut in the morning.

my first concert to see clay so i will see what the fuss is all about!

[keepingfaith]

I see Clay as having a Clay Aiken career ... not a Tony Bennett, Linda Ronstandt, Barry Manilow, or anybody else career. He's unique. There's never been anyone like him before, and there won't be another one coming along. And as far as name identification goes, believe me there are people, music-lovers, who don't have a clue who Josh Groban or Michael Buble or Andrea Bocelli are.

I think Clay's career is being carefully nurtured and plotted. And I believe everything is going according to plan. Will everybody everywhere love him? No, of course not. But, so what? -- There were plenty of people who never liked Elvis Presley and wouldn't have walked across the street to see him for free ... me, for instance -- but I didn't stand in his way!

[muskifest]

I am always one who always felt that Clay was never as big as some in this fandom made him out to be - even at his height.

HUH?

THIS? From CLAYGASM?

HUH? I mean, I'm pretty sure she was the one trying to convince me that the Rhode Island YGAF video does NOT lie....(well, maybe there were others who also thought the evidence was obvious...)

So I repeat...

HUH?

[YSRN]

Hey, nobody said there was a new thread in the old thread and I've been refreshing for hours wondering WTF?

*goes back to read*