#15 the Earl of Aikenberry: a man of character and Naughty by Nature

[Bookwhore]

Love the different perspective on the rivet here. Nice view.

I love a man in silhouette.

[Clayzorback]

I don't know about comparing him to Elvis, The Beatles, Sinatra and such. I know I've done it from time to time also, but it just seems to be more complicated than that. I think Clay is more unique in his genre. He's certainly a combination of a few of those greats and yet he's almost nothing like them. His voice is powerful, his range amazing and his timbre mesmerizing. He has an indefinable sex appeal, an allure that many don't understand. And still they fall under his spell without fully recognizing it. He commands a stage like no other these days, and he has a quicksilver wit that is difficult to compete with. His self deprecation is a defense mechanism finely honed from an early age and his talent for speaking or acting on impulse without processing through filters first may be his single greatest flaw. And yet, he is still hovering somewhere above a boxed in AI finalists secondary career with a future in TV and below a music/entertainment Icon of mega superstaH status. How is this happening? Why? To think of Clay as someone who could be major around the world seems a natural progression in thought and reason. International exposure should be easy. And yet he is confined to not just touring the states these days, but predominatly the eastern seaboard. WTH happened?! He was launched! He soared! Then he was shot full of buckshot! Who fired the gun and who provided the ammo? He has said "in reality there are few conspiracies in the world" and I just want to know how he defines it then. I'm admittedly crazy though, because I think he is an Icon already. I believe he will go down in the annals of time as a major force in the industry. It will take some doing but I also believe he will achieve international success and fame with his next CD. Yep, I'm crazy. I just want to "will it" for him and say "#1, make it so"!

I absolutely love this quote. He was on a rocket to the stars and he was shot down. Whether it was a conspiracy or just a series of incridibly stupid decisions on the part of the industry, we'll never know. The only thing I know for sure, is that the man who was driving that rocket ship is even better than he was then. He's more confident, more talented, and more accepting of his supporters. Eventually, the rest of the world will see what we see, and most of its citizens will embrace him. It's just going to take a little longer than we hoped.

Clay had the opportunity to be a mega superstar right out of the gate. I was one who thought he was going to be an icon right up there with Elvis and the Beatles. I couldn't believe I was going to be a part of something so wonderful. I didn't believe he was going to change the musical landscape, all that much, but I believed he had the "It" factor and the tools to become a legend. Charisma, talent, stage presence, multifaceted. I still do. He most certainly had it all going for him. Massive devoted fan base, he was in demand. What happened? I think it is a combination of a lot of things. Bad decisions is definitely chief among them, but by whom? Clay is a big part of team Clay and made many decisions himself. I used to be one who thought Clive Davis wasn't acting in Clay's best interest. He is a dinosaur and probably out of touch. However!!! I do not, for one minute, think there is, or was, a conspiracy put into place to "Shoot Down His Star.".................I will agree their was a plan in place to not let him win AI2. They felt he would not fit in with the current radio trend of top 40. Looks like they were right. However there is no conspiracy to sick haters after Clay, or to ruin his image by putting out the "Mess" stories, or to keep Clay from having a successful career. There is no one sabotaging his cd sales. No one will ever convince me of that. I will accept the idea that Clive and Clay's label may have made some mistakes in assessing direction for Clay and what his fans might want, but!!! I think Clay read his fan boards and made some mistakes in guessing what his fans want also. Sorry to say but I don't think a lot of Clay's fans have their pulse on what will make Clay successful, or get him radio, either. JMHO but perhaps his fans constantly suggesting to hear Clay sing every song ever made does not help. Perhaps that is why Clay and his team felt ATDW would be accepted by the fans. After all the JBT was their favorite tour and it was all about the covers. Now they are all seeing the results of their bad decisions. That is JMHO. Here are some things to consider.

1. It was not RCA/Clive telling Clay to do Hometown Connection shows. Where he is singing covers of "cheesy" love song ballads. Or making him do a demo singing covers of "cheesy" love song ballads and religious music.

2. It was not RCA/Clive telling Clay to hold prayer circles before each show on AI2. Or making religion a big part of his biography. Not slamming his religion at all. I love that he is a man of beliefs, morals, and faith. I'm just making the point that Clay defined the demographics he would attract, himself. His label can not be blamed for that, or for who Clay is. They didn't tell him to claim the moral high ground for being a role model, either. His demographics are considered by many, in the industry and mainstream, to be old blue haired ladies, a bit OTT, and also right wing conservatists. IMHO That is not the target market that is looked upon to be desirable. Not bashing just stating what I believe to be facts.

3. It was not RCA/Clive that asked that the most sexiest video we will ever get from Clay be scrapped. It was them, though, that graciously allowed Clay to do it. That was a million dollar video people that his label let him scrap. Seems to me if they were out to "show him a thing or two" they could of went ahead and showed the video. *g*

4. It was not RCA/Clive that made Clay refuse to sing Touch on his MOAM cd, because he didn't like the version that They put on there. He thought it too racey? (MOAM was very uptempo pop, not ballad cheese & was chosen by RCA/Clive for Clay. Didn't sound like a cd where they were trying to box him into cheesy ballad boy here. Seems to me they could of also "highly insisted" he sing Touch, if it is believed that they can force him to do everything they want. *g*

5. It was not RCA/Clive that forced Clay to put blatant religious songs into his concert, complete with floating Bibles & crosses.

6. It was not RCA/Clive who insists on doing Christmas shows every year instead of working on maybe writing his own songs, for a new cd. Finding his artistic vision that seems so important to some fans. Which you will notice he didn't do for his demos either. He just sang covers. Clay seems to have no problem singing cover songs instead of writing his own. I don't think Clive/RCA is keeping him from tapping into that creative side of himself.

7.. It was not RCA/Clive that made Clay take the word damn out of a song and refuse to sing it.

8. It was not RCA/Clive that forced Clay to do a tour of nothing but cover songs from 1950 on. In fact as he stated, "They didn't ask" RCA/Clive.

9. It WAS however, RCA/Clive that let Clay pick his own producer for ATDW and go out and find the songs they wanted to put on his cd. Seems to me if he was a victim of a conspiracy he would of been told what to sing right from the start. Not given a chance to pick his own songs.

These are just some examples of what I see as Clay's own choices. I think he has learned a lot this past year, from them. I doubt Clay will change much, as far as what he will record. I expect him to always stay in his lane. After all, he did say they do slooooow songs because that is what he is good at. He mocked the idea of him being edgy or rocker in this last concert, by doing the medley. I do expect more up tempo and more edgier lyrics, though. I have seen evidence this past year of him keeping a low profile while the mess cleared, to work on an image change. Trying to shed his saintly, virginal, goody two shoe image is a good decision, IMHO. Now like I said I do believe his label and Clive have made their own miserable bad choices for him also, but I think his demographics have played a big influence in the decisions that have been made by all of team Clay, and that includes Clay himself.

[Meesa]

Duh, I keep coming here to post something and I keep forgetting.

Fair markets itself to a younger set

The fair's MySpace visitors also can see the concert lineup, play games and listen to the fair's humorous radio spots.

If they'd rather watch the fair's television spots, fair friends can also log on to YouTube.com and search for Kansas State Fair.

While there, Stoecklein notes with delight, they'll also find several other fair-related videos posted by users -- including a clip of hypnotist Ron Diamond in action and snippets of Clay Aiken and Carrie Underwood performing at past fairs.

OK, so who is going to the Kansas State Fair to bring this report of what they are showing? Is it clack being showed without permission or video they took - NEW CLACK!!!

I'm going to the fair. It starts next Friday.

[Guest Toots]

I think we are all entitled to our opinions, and hope that mine will be taken as just that, my opinion.

texwriter, first I love your avi. So cute.

Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one! This board is very respectful of opinions and everyone is careful not to sling arrows. Of course sometimes this place moves like a freight train and your opinion just gets ignored. Maybe that's why there are not arrows slung? Hmmmmm, food for thought!

[YSRN]

Since my post this morning seems to have set off a lot of discussion, and at least one rant (waves to Claygasm), I feel the need to defend it just a little. Yes, the rocket ship was fueled by AI, but I haven't noticed any other AI winner (or almost winner) come off the show with anywhere near the same degree of popularity. His record tying Christmas sales came a full year and a half after AI ended. It wasn't until January 2006 and the subsequent "mandated" album that the rocket seemed to run dangerously low on fuel. I, in no way, want to be responsible for rants or heated debate. As I said, when I joined last week, I am in this fandom for the FUN. However, I do enjoy intelligent discussion regarding this crazy ride we've all been on for the last few years. I saw a lot of intelligent discussion yesterday and this morning, and have enjoyed reading all of it. I think we are all entitled to our opinions, and hope that mine will be taken as just that, my opinion.

Regardless of the factors that have brought Clay to this place in time, or the potential factors that will lead him down the road not taken, I'll be following right along behind him. I'm having the time of my life and I'm appreciating the opportunity to post imy reflections here. :F_05BL17blowkiss:

Most absolutely... You're not only entitled, it's appreciated because it fuels these kinds of conversations. I don't see heated debate as much as just an opportunity to explore my own thoughts on the matter -- and then you all have to suffer reading them. Haha! I definitely enjoy hanging around yukking it up with people who want to play, but I also enjoy a good, friendly discussion of our differences.

Re: other AI winners and popularity, I guess I can put Kelly in the place you're describing. She did have a HUGE amount of well-earned popularity and success and I'm happy for that cuz I lurve her. And she put out the album that was not mandated and had it "fail". One could say that RCA holds all the cards as to failure or success on album sales and even the mindset of the consumers, but... still, low fuel is simply low fuel. There are filling stations around. The engine is nowhere near worn out - it's just time for a pit stop. I cannot wait to see what's in store for the next leg of the journey.

Every one of us deals with life's ups and downs. What's been good for me so far is observing (and admiring) how Clay maneuvers his. How he presents himself. How he deals. His attitude about life and all it encompasses. If he was walking around being a bitter, brooding artist type complaining about how unfair it all was and gnashing about... I would definitely not enjoy him as much. It's part of his "allure" for me. I do idolize him a little because those are traits I personally find admirable in a human being. He's a good egg, that guy.

[texwriter]

Every one of us deals with life's ups and downs. What's been good for me so far is observing (and admiring) how Clay maneuvers his. How he presents himself. How he deals. His attitude about life and all it encompasses. If he was walking around being a bitter, brooding artist type complaining about how unfair it all was and gnashing about... I would definitely not enjoy him as much. It's part of his "allure" for me. I do idolize him a little because those are traits I personally find admirable in a human being. He's a good egg, that guy.

Absolutely! I've never known anyone who takes lemons and makes lemonade better than he does. And it seems to be something he's been doing for most of his life.

[jmh123]

Good morning! My sister and "our" guests have left for the day. I'm a single woman again! Weeee!!

More on the Japanese fan site. Awhile back they did the cutest "ABCs of Clay Aiken" on the blog. The alphabet words are all in English, and each is represented by a photo. Good stuff. Here are the links:

All I get are question marks.... wah! I need fonts or something... any ideas?

I dunno. You should be able to see the English words, I would think. If you use IE, you could try View > Encoding > and change that setting. Mine is set to Western European (ISO). Another possibility: under Internet Options > General there is a "languages" option. Mine is set only to English, but you can add other languages too. I remember in the old days I used to have to add Chinese and Japanese to my system special-like with my OS disk, but not anymore. None of this should affect the ability to see the English words in that blog though.

I might have to cheat on you sometimes with Canucky tho...

I sometimes wonder if I want Superstardom for Clay because he deserves it or because I would then feel validated when many of my snootier friends would have to agree with me that he's awesome. I think, actually, that the second reason has a lot to do with it.

I've wondered about this as well. Those who are teased or tormented by friends and family may have a harder time of it than those of us who aren't (much), and may be looking for some vindication???

Every one of us deals with life's ups and downs. What's been good for me so far is observing (and admiring) how Clay maneuvers his. How he presents himself. How he deals. His attitude about life and all it encompasses. If he was walking around being a bitter, brooding artist type complaining about how unfair it all was and gnashing about... I would definitely not enjoy him as much. It's part of his "allure" for me. I do idolize him a little because those are traits I personally find admirable in a human being. He's a good egg, that guy.

Agreed. Kind of weird having a role model mmmm years younger, but whatevah! He's pretty amazing.

Great post Clayzorback!!!!

Edited September 2, 2007 by jmh123

[beenthinking]

Claygasm

I just have a feeling he won't be following any expected path.

That is what has kept me interested and being a fan. I have posted before that I find Clay Aiken to be a complicated and fascinating person.

I bet dollars to donuts that he was not an easy kid to raise. Just recently he told his 5th grade teacher not to lie about how he was. I wonder if his mama had to put her hands over her ears because he talked so much. I bet there a some tales that have not been told about Clay the kid, teenager and college student. That is ok, because I sure I wouldn't want any tales told about me when I was growing up except those I relate myself..LOL

Just a few thoughts, he has a mind of his own, but likes input from people (like Jesse and him arguing about the music for this tour) from people that he respects. Does he respect Clive Davis, who knows?? I bet Jerome finds him a handful being his bodyguard. Does he go into the audience without Jerome's first hand approval? Who knows?

There are few people who have long standing careers. Those that were popular in my day, my kids wouldn't even begin to know. Elvis, Beatles, Bing Crosby, yes.... but, The Platters, Fats Domino, Chuck Berry, Connie Francis all gone and most forgotten, they wouldn't know.

Time itself takes care of careers. That is why I think enjoying Clay, the singer, entertainer, comedian is important and that is what I intend to do. Kicking the angst to the curbside is not a bad idea. Clay is madly talented and it is up to him what he chooses to do with that talent. As long as he is around and I hope that will be a very long time, I will remain a fan.

Clayzorback.... Excellent post!

Edited September 2, 2007 by beenthinking

[aikim]

Bottom line for me is that this fandom is supposed to be fun, not a job...I have enough to worry about in real life without worrying about Clay and how his tour sold or how the next one will sell and why is Kelly getting this and not Clay or why Clay isn't on this show or that...yada, yada, yada...I am not a worrier by nature so I always have a hard time dealing with the angst and I am not big on whining either. If it is something out of my control, than it is not worth my time obsessing over.

Clay is a smart man and has smart people working for him and I just want to enjoy watching his career unfold and see where it takes him.

Kim

[wandacleo]

I think of Clay's career like a toy glider. If you throw it straight up into the air as far as you can, it may go up high, but it immediately crashes back onto the ground. However, if you wait until the wind is right and throw it at just the right angle, it soars.

I think Clay is just about to soar.

[Couch Tomato]

Take a nap for 3 hours and I come back to more great posts. Texwriter - don't be afraid - this is just more convo to us. It's spirited but hey there are some spirited people here. We've had this conversation a lot over the last year. Here's the thing you should probably know... It's a passionate topic to us because many of us are here because the conspiracy theories and outright lies being propagated in the fandom almost drove us insane and away from the online fandom. I don't agree with every single word I've read this morning but I do think the common theme that Clay is not this beacon of light waif being batted around helpless by the industry evildoers. </YSRN help! I'm started to think and talk like GH's Spinelli>

[beenthinking]

I think of Clay's career like a toy glider. If you throw it straight up into the air as far as you can, it may go up high, but it immediately crashes back onto the ground. However, if you wait until the wind is right and throw it at just the right angle, it soars.

I think Clay is just about to soar.

...

[YSRN]

but I do think the common theme that Clay is not this beacon of light waif being batted around helpless by the industry evildoers. </YSRN help! I'm started to think and talk like GH's Spinelli>

BWAH!!

I love Spinelli... LMAO! Hee. I keep cracking up! I think I'll catch up on a few eppys today. The innocent one was just abducted by the evildoers and I gotta see if Fair Samantha had anything to do with it. LOL!

I like that glider metaphor too, wandacleo. If ya get too anxious and throw a glider too hard, it just crashes. Oh, I like that metaphor a lot.

[Gibby]

Some purdy closeups:

[Couch Tomato]

Re: other AI winners and popularity, I guess I can put Kelly in the place you're describing. She did have a HUGE amount of well-earned popularity and success and I'm happy for that cuz I lurve her. And she put out the album that was not mandated and had it "fail". One could say that RCA holds all the cards as to failure or success on album sales and even the mindset of the consumers, but... still, low fuel is simply low fuel. There are filling stations around. The engine is nowhere near worn out - it's just time for a pit stop. I cannot wait to see what's in store for the next leg of the journey.

Every one of us deals with life's ups and downs. What's been good for me so far is observing (and admiring) how Clay maneuvers his. How he presents himself. How he deals. His attitude about life and all it encompasses. If he was walking around being a bitter, brooding artist type complaining about how unfair it all was and gnashing about... I would definitely not enjoy him as much. It's part of his "allure" for me. I do idolize him a little because those are traits I personally find admirable in a human being. He's a good egg, that guy.

The word I think of when I watch Clay maneuver through his life is grace. I wish I handled my own life, where at least my issues are not public knowledge, as well as he does. He constantly amazes me and makes me proud... oh crap there's that mama thing again.

Carrie is having an amazing career and I happy about that. I think some even questioned her "win" but she just keeps on keeping on. I have her first album and I like it..and country is not usually my thang. And I thought she was just a boring stick on idol heh.

Canuck - not many admit to what you said. That they need a bit of validation for being such a big supporter of Clay. I'm a lucky person in that in my personal life eveyrone around me just enjoys the fact that I'm happy Most like Clay, and no one throws him in my face or anything they've heard. When there's something going on ..like me planning the cross board JNT05 pre party - my family pitches in and helps by doing whatever I need. I often read of people having unpleasant encounters with family, friends, coworkers and I don't know how I'd deal wiht it. I'd probably have one less friend, coworker. Family? I'd kick their ass. heh. But on a larger front I can certainly understand wanting to see validations of awards, more projects etc. I think those things will come. But that will come from the music he puts out. I think he knows that and is working towards that end. Anyway, thanks for the food for thought..

Time itself takes care of careers. That is why I think enjoying Clay, the singer, entertainer, comedian is important and that is what I intend to do. Kicking the angst to the curbside is not a bad idea. Clay is madly talented and it is up to him what he chooses to do with that talent. As long as he is around and I hope that will be a very long time, I will remain a fan

.

beenthinking

I agree whole heartedly with this sentiment. I said as much to Muskifest the other night at dinner. I am fascinated by the man and have enjoyed the journey as much as anything else. I don't want to miss a thang. I'll worry over the next album when it comes out, if then. But I want to enjoy the moment, right now. THirty years from now when I'm pumping my fist to BFM in the home, heh, I hope to have a mind alert enough to be able to account for his career every step of the damn way.

I love Spinelli... LMAO! Hee. I keep cracking up! I think I'll catch up on a few eppys today. The innocent one was just abducted by the evildoers and I gotta see if Fair Samantha had anything to do with it. LOL!

heee we need a soap thread. heh. Spinelli had a "dramatic" day yesterday..as in they gave him some meat and not just comic relief. That's all I'll say. heee. I love him too.

GULP>.thanks GIbby.

[Claygasm]

Take a nap for 3 hours and I come back to more great posts. Texwriter - don't be afraid - this is just more convo to us. It's spirited but hey there are some spirited people here. We've had this conversation a lot over the last year. Here's the thing you should probably know... It's a passionate topic to us because many of us are here because the conspiracy theories and outright lies being propagated in the fandom almost drove us insane and away from the online fandom. I don't agree with every single word I've read this morning but I do think the common theme that Clay is not this beacon of light waif being batted around helpless by the industry evildoers. </YSRN help! I'm started to think and talk like GH's Spinelli>

There certainly are spirited people here - and that's one thing that makes this such a great place! Texwriter, I didn't mean to jump on you and you most certainly are enititled to your opinion AND entitled to post it. But as couchie said, this is a passionate topic for many of us - sort of a hot button issue.

Just know this - All opinons are welcomed and respected - as long as they are presented with respect. We aren't all lemmings here. Even though I think a lot of us came here to escape the constant conspiracy theories and lies and RCA/Clive hate etc., we don't all agree on everything about that subject - or any subject except one. We love Clay, And we're girls who just want to have fun, fun, fun loving Clay!<posted by a not-a-mod>

[Ansamcw]

Since my post this morning seems to have set off a lot of discussion, and at least one rant (waves to Claygasm), I feel the need to defend it just a little. Yes, the rocket ship was fueled by AI, but I haven't noticed any other AI winner (or almost winner) come off the show with anywhere near the same degree of popularity. His record tying Christmas sales came a full year and a half after AI ended. It wasn't until January 2006 and the subsequent "mandated" album that the rocket seemed to run dangerously low on fuel. I, in no way, want to be responsible for rants or heated debate. As I said, when I joined last week, I am in this fandom for the FUN. However, I do enjoy intelligent discussion regarding this crazy ride we've all been on for the last few years. I saw a lot of intelligent discussion yesterday and this morning, and have enjoyed reading all of it. I think we are all entitled to our opinions, and hope that mine will be taken as just that, my opinion.

Regardless of the factors that have brought Clay to this place in time, or the potential factors that will lead him down the road not taken, I'll be following right along behind him. I'm having the time of my life and I'm appreciating the opportunity to post my reflections here. :F_05BL17blowkiss:

ETA: I guess I had no idea that using the word "conspiracy" would be categorized as beating a dead horse. I will certainly make note of that and remove it from my vocabulary. :medium-smiley-070:

oh don't worry about starting a discussion or debate. We like that here because we are not a hive mind. We all have opinions and its great to get the mind going. Couchie did mention that opinions may be heavily skewed to one side because of the history of most posters here from other boards. BUT we welcome all opinions.

I think we are all entitled to our opinions, and hope that mine will be taken as just that, my opinion.

texwriter, first I love your avi. So cute.

Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one! This board is very respectful of opinions and everyone is careful not to sling arrows. Of course sometimes this place moves like a freight train and your opinion just gets ignored. Maybe that's why there are not arrows slung? Hmmmmm, food for thought!

hee yup...you sure got the spirit of this board right away!!! No arrows slinging...just ideas.

I think of Clay's career like a toy glider. If you throw it straight up into the air as far as you can, it may go up high, but it immediately crashes back onto the ground. However, if you wait until the wind is right and throw it at just the right angle, it soars.

I think Clay is just about to soar.

I love this. Yup sometimes its a matter of timing.

OK...I had this long post brewing in my head this morning...But now you guys are spared cos CG, YSRN and Clayzor pretty much made my post...WORD.

Bottom line for me...once Clay made the choice of being a different type of pop start and not follow the formula of singing sexy songs...he chose the much more difficult path IMO. I do think he has IT, start quality and talent that COULD make him a superstar...but other things are needed to make this happen...such as timing. Kelly and Daughtry have it easier cos their music fit the current trend. If Clay came out in the 90's maybe he would have an easier time of it too. But right now...its not as easy for him to remain himself and make a big splash in the music industry. The fact that Clay has this IT...star quality..is what is giving him this amount of success to keep up his level of celebrity. Now all he needs is that project that will put him in the next level of success. If this project does not happen...then he has a very good and stable career that will keep him financially independent enough to be the master of hos own fate.

[Gibby]

Hey, Claygasm! One of your photoshopped B&W pics is being used as the background at Ideal Idol. Someone over at CV was asking whether the original had ever been posted, because she wants it (you can find the post in the focus thread if you want to answer her). Congrats on having people recognize your great picture!

I can't remember - did someone post about the 'hot pants' montage already? Oh, well, even if it's been posted - here's a link - it's hawt!

[YSRN]

<posted by a not-a-mod>

Uh-oh... be careful with that shit, cuz next thing you know...!

Thanks for the tips, jmh. I use firefox, but I bet there are some settings there I need to check. It could be my system cuz I get email from Chinese clients and it's all question marks too. If I can't fix the browser issue I'll probably just wait until my brand-spanking new computer shows up in a few weeks. I'm very excited. My new 24" wide-screen monitor comes next week! Wee!

I used to be one who thought Clive Davis wasn't acting in Clay's best interest. He is a dinosaur and probably out of touch. However!!! I do not, for one minute, think there is, or was, a conspiracy put into place to "Shoot Down His Star.".

I never expected Clive Davis to have Clay's best interests at heart. It's not his role at all. Of course, you'd like to think it's not all business and there is some mentoring and nurturing, but c'mon... it's just business. He just wants to make money off the guy. Use him and spit him out. Like Bill Gates wants to do with his finest engineers. It's just how life works. I have no illusions about that. It's why artists hire managers and lawyers and personal publicists. And hang out with mentors outside of their contractual relationships. RCA wants what they want. If Clay doesn't do what he's "hired" to do, he breaks his contractual agreement and they get to seek remuneration. That's the only "force" they have. Well, except the music "mofia"... lol... but they probably won't have to bring out the big guns - heeee. I highly doubt Clay's walking around RCA being a big dick. Having a big dick doesn't count.

eta... does anyone know what to do with a bucketload of concord grapes? I don't want them to go to waste and I can't bear to leave them out there for the birds.

[woo lovereyes]

I do not believe in the that whole conspiracy theory.

I'm saddened me that things have slowed down as much as they have for Clay but he has oodles of fans and the boy makes a fine living.

beginning of rant...

The one thing that galls me is the constant lack of respect for him and his fans. I don't expect to hear him on the radio right now but I absolutely resent the fowl remarks/snickering the radio "personalities", print/TV/cyber media dish out thinking they are oh so funny and cool. This has nothing to do with AI stigma, just look at Daughtry he's deemed cool and humble...whatever...

Don't even get me started about the eyerolls and stupid remarks I have gotten when buying Clay's music.(have turned a couple of those idiots in)

end of rant....

otherwise

[JennaZ]

Wow! So many great points! I'd pass the WORD's around more specifically, but I'm reading the board on my Blackberry, which makes formatting difficult.

I do agree that, for better or worse, Clay has not been a passive participant in his career. While he may not have had total control of every aspect, especially early on, I think that he bears some responsibility for where he is now-which IMHO-is NOT a bad place. He may not be all over the radio, selling out arenas, but he's still touring, still getting TV bookings, and perhaps most importantly, he's still sane and apparently happy. If he had focused on his music more than his philanthropic endeavors, if he had sung songs that got radio play but that he didn't enjoy singing, if he had made decisions solely to make himself rich and popular, he might have been on the top of the charts, but he might also be sitting in rehab somewhere.

Clay may not be a superstar, but I think he's in a decent position with a lot of potential to go further.

[Ansamcw]

I never expected Clive Davis to have Clay's best interests at heart. It's not his role at all. Of course, you'd like to think it's not all business and there is some mentoring and nurturing, but c'mon... it's just business. He just wants to make money off the guy. Use him and spit him out. Like Bill Gates wants to do with his finest engineers. It's just how life works. I have no illusions about that. It's why artists hire managers and lawyers and personal publicists. And hang out with mentors outside of their contractual relationships. RCA wants what they want. If Clay doesn't do what he's "hired" to do, he breaks his contractual agreement and they get to seek remuneration. That's the only "force" they have. Well, except the music "mofia"... lol... but they probably won't have to bring out the big guns - heeee. I highly doubt Clay's walking around RCA being a big dick. Having a big dick doesn't count.

I remember saying as much during the great conspiracy debates. When people were saying that Clive must have something personal against Clay cos no label would treat a muti-platinum artist that way its not good business. I said that the label is not run by Clay fans. They will only have a Clay's best interest at heart when it coincides with their goal of a healthy bottom line. If an artist artistic goals are deemed not commercial enough..they will play hardball. They want quick money out of Clay...the quickest way to do that is go for a cover album. I think the one thing the label read wrong is Clay's fanbase.

eta... does anyone know what to do with a bucketload of concord grapes? I don't want them to go to waste and I can't bear to leave them out there for the birds.

How about some home made wine. Thats pretty big around here. Most do it from kits but I;m sure there is a way to do it from real grapes. Is that from your vines? they looked lovely in your garden...

[ldyjocelyn]

Now like I said I do believe his label and Clive have made their own miserable bad choices for him also, but I think his demographics have played a big influence in the decisions that have been made by all of team Clay, and that includes Clay himself.

Wow. Thank you for stating that in a clear and concise manner.

{{{{texwriter}}}} Don't worry about it. Sure, we're a fun board....but we can also have fairly deep conversations around here, and you can never tell what will be the spark to start one. Also, we can have these deep conversations....and then someone posts a pretty picture and coherent thought goes out the window!!!

Every one of us deals with life's ups and downs. What's been good for me so far is observing (and admiring) how Clay maneuvers his. How he presents himself. How he deals. His attitude about life and all it encompasses. If he was walking around being a bitter, brooding artist type complaining about how unfair it all was and gnashing about... I would definitely not enjoy him as much. It's part of his "allure" for me. I do idolize him a little because those are traits I personally find admirable in a human being. He's a good egg, that guy.

Absolutely! I've never known anyone who takes lemons and makes lemonade better than he does. And it seems to be something he's been doing for most of his life.

Can I get a "hallelujah" for both you ladies?!?!?!

Time itself takes care of careers. That is why I think enjoying Clay, the singer, entertainer, comedian is important and that is what I intend to do. Kicking the angst to the curbside is not a bad idea. Clay is madly talented and it is up to him what he chooses to do with that talent. As long as he is around and I hope that will be a very long time, I will remain a fan.

Amen, Sister beenthinking!

The one thing that galls me is the constant lack of respect for him and his fans. I don't expect to hear him on the radio right now but I absolutely resent the fowl remarks/snickering the radio "personalities", print/TV/cyber media dish out thinking they are oh so funny and cool. This has nothing to do with AI stigma, just look at Daughtry he's deemed cool and humble...whatever...

Don't even get me started about the eyerolls and stupid remarks I have gotten when buying Clay's music.(have turned a couple of those idiots in)

end of rant....

otherwise

I hear ya....and yet, I know all about that...just because of being a Star Trek "geek" for a LONG time. The show and the fans did NOT get respect in the media in the span of its lifetime. Just didn't happen. It was "that strange geek show." Star Wars got more respect -- but that was a movie. And I was an anomaly as a Star Trek fan in that I was a girl, and didn't live in my parent's basement either. But today....science fiction geekdom is getting TONS of respect in the media.

My point is that this may all take time too for us Clay fans. It may be twenty years before Clay and Claymates/Clay Nation get the respect they deserve. In the meantime, I'm going to be proud to be a soon-to-be 45 year old woman who loves Clay Aiken. Screw the "cool" demographics. Matter of fact, just screw the "cool." (To me, that was the whole POINT of the Classics Medley....and I loved his banter at Newark when he talked about not being cool, and then just saying...."screw it." Made my week....)

Gee, I thought I clicked the Quote button for other posts too. Guess I didn't. I'll just say that couchie is my hero, with JennaZ and Ansa as close seconds.

[Guest Toots]

eta... does anyone know what to do with a bucketload of concord grapes? I don't want them to go to waste and I can't bear to leave them out there for the birds.

You could invite your friends to come over and stomp on them after which you can make some good wine.

Edited September 2, 2007 by Toots

[jamar1700]

Omigosh you guys

Between the yard work and house cleaning and watching the World Track & Field Championships* and narrowing my TOA list to 5, I haven't had time to read the thread completely until now! Wow. Once again you've all said so much I'd say. Especially the twin viewpoints of CG and YSRN ! My goodness. I'm just nodding and nodding and nodding. I'll try to post some thoughts later and I also owe Kandre some typing I promised her earlier in the week.

So in the meantime ... anyone one squeee about Bernard Lagat* with me? No? Alrighty then.

Edited September 2, 2007 by jamar1700