#16 Veins flowing with personality, thighs dripping with character.

[keepingfaith]

One of the things that has stayed with me from the M&G reports this summer is that someone, somewhere, reported that when asked if he planned to write another book, Clay responded, "I didn't write the first one." Does anyone recall that? I suppose that, if true, this comment could be taken a couple of ways -- that he dictated remembrances and opinions into a tape recorder and Allison Glock fashioned the tapes into a book and he takes no credit in the writing thereof, or that in some small way he's beginning to distance himself from parts of the book. Of course, it could just be Clay's general snark!

[Stargazer]

Overwhelming situations: arriving at a radio station, in December, at 4:30 a.m., with the temperature at about 10 degrees, just to watch Clay through a plate glass window for 20 minutes. Even getting there at 4:30 a.m., I wasn't at the front of the line. Heh. Also, front row in Boston, with one of Scarlett's many cameras in hand...when it was almost a 100 degrees! (Extreme temperatures!!! Hee)

ldyjocelyn's been very kind and sympathetic and considerate in not telling you this but.... I haven't rendered and uploaded this one yet -- the entire Boston JBT from the front row by ldyjocelyn. *runs and hides* I'm going to just finish off WPB and Tampa, and then go back for this because it's a crime to have let it drag all these years. (keepingfaith, that's another Motown set for you. Yes, I haven't forgotten Interlochen). Thanks for being so nice, ldyjocelyn. You should have hit me over the head long ago. (or gotten someone else to do it)

Is there a waiting for a spanking emoticon?

How about this one Scarlett?

[Guest Toots]

I went to bed last night (unlike some of you), did RL stuff this morning (like evaluating clack), got dressed then came in here and all I have to say is:

Scarlett....your thinly veiled attempt to hide that vulgar shit food was not thinly veiled enough.

Yuck, Yuck and triple Yuck....blood stew? Oh shit Scarlett pork inards in pork blood stew!

As long as I'm here....watched a portion of GMA this morning with Diane going to congratulate Reg and asshole Kelly on something important to them. Well anyway I thought someone might mention the crap that asshole Kelly spewed on Clay but the only mention was how asshole Kelly tends to rant and no one can stop her. I did notice a bit of coolness on the part of Diane to asshole Kelly, kissing Reg but just giving asshole Kelly her emotionless hand. I'd like to think the rant mention was directly related to the incident with Clay but that's probably giving them far too much credit.

Off to weights class (looks out of the corner of her eye at couchie) before I can finish all the posts knowing there will be another 5 pages of posts when I get back.

Edited September 13, 2007 by Toots

[bottlecap]

PS Why does my homeboard show up and no one else's does? I just answered the My Control questions- I tried to delete it and it won't let me.

One of the Admins might come along and explain it better, but I understand that was set up recently to help in screening out spambots trying to register at the site - it helps ensure you're a "real" person. As a mod, I can see it for everyone, but I think the regular members only see their own.

[YSRN]

{{{Mandler}}} You know I feel ya!

All I got on the fandom thingy is this... I insist on the rights for myself and others to express themselves (of course, in a way that is civil and not repetitive ala fucking "Chinese water torture") without being tarred and feathered. And the only way I can keep that right for myself, is to afford it to others. The ones that consistently only post to drive home their "rightness" or just be angry, miserable wenches... yuck... but I mean, I can accept a.lot. I'm talking about maybe .005% of the peeps. But, like I said, I just scroll over them...because they harsh my mellow, yo. And the minute someone tells me I'm an ass for feeling what I feel or speaks to me or anyone else in a condescending holier than thou tone... they go on my shit list. LOL!

My deal is this... if I can't share my feelings (all of them) about all this with the people I'm sharing the experience with, then there's no reason to be here.

And that's all I really have to say about any of it.

Oh, except that list of "foods" Scarlett posted... omg...puke!

But that is not the only side of it...and I am grateful that we are not losing sight of that.

Ditto.

most embarrassing moment: meeting YSRN's dog...hee

BWAH! Lucky misses you!

Scarlett... is there no way any of us can help you with rendering and stuff??

[leeana]

Yuck, Yuck and triple Yuck....blood stew? Oh shit Scarlett pork inards in pork blood stew!

A delicacy, Yumm if you do not know the contents. Bwahaha, like sheperd pie or goulash or the Polish doughnut where everything and the kitchen sink are added to the mix. But they are delicacies.

and delicious.

[keldanker]

Interesting discussion today. Since I came late to the internet/message board part of my Clay fandom, my experience with LTS, YWT, etc. were far different. The very first time I saw Clay live was at the NAT. His performance of YWT started that little flutter in my heart. Later that year, I read LTS. The little flutter became a pounding. Sometime around Christmas, I saw a video of WDC from the IT (which I never knew about at all) and the flutter was then a full scale gallop. I was in love with that man! Because I had not been part of the online fans, I knew nothing about any controversy. I just loved him. Sometimes I have to wonder if that was not better than knowing every little thing that goes on and hearing everyone else's concerns, dire predictions, insider (perceived) knowledge, demands, media insults, endless message board gerbil wheels, etc. It was so much more simple when it was only about love.

[laughn]

That know-it-all expert fan is seductive, though. It frustrates and embarrasses me now, but there was a time in this fandom when I was "so gullible" and bought into some BS artist's bill of goods. I guess maybe I was more "Pollyanna" than I realized at the beginning of the fandom, and it didn't immediately occur to me that not everyone loved Clay in the fun way I did. It was beyond my comprehension that someone would go to such lengths and use other people to get what they perceived as "closer" to Clay. I think those sorts of people can sense the vulnerabilities of others. And, unfortunately, my vulnerabilities were exploited. Lesson learned and no permanent (I hope) harm done, but it drives me crazy to see the same thing happen to other people.

It's called being older, but wiser. You learned. What bugs the heck out of me is that some people never learn, or I should say, want to learn. I think they want to be taken in by the BS artist because that way they can still believe the fantasy.

As far as when things took a turn for the worse, I can, of course, only speak for myself. The first time I saw what I thought was a really ugly side of the fandom was when the TITN video hit the boards. I just remember all this "policing" going on - people not "allowed" to even speak of it, let alone watch it. And post after post after post sounded like someone speaking "on behalf of Clay" - stuff along the lines of "well, this is what HE would want." And I remember thinking - How in the hell do you know? Sadly, I've had that thought too many times to count since then. That, like other incidents, was one of those that challenged a lot of people's ideas of who Clay is. I've been lucky enough to be a part of boards/groups that tend to take things in stride and not get ruffled feathers, but seeing it elsewhere has always been an experience.

I must say, the Pixel Detectives after boobgate were scary, amusing, and, in a slightly twisted way, impressive all at the same time, lol.

That part I bolded...so true...and I just liked the name Pixel Detectives...made me

My husband ate balut...it's a wonder I ever kiss that man. (no offense to anyone who likes balut. I grew up on charnina. I can not talk)

[luckiest1]

It was so much more simple when it was only about love.

This statement just resonated with me. Thread title?

I have to admit that I have become much less gullible and much more jaded since the beginning of this journey. I have also learned that it can sometimes be just as bad to continually retaliate and argue with the so-called experts or those who dwell in negativity....because it just eggs them on. So here I sit, enjoying my fandom a whole lot more than a few months ago. Thanks couchie and ansa. :F_05BL17blowkiss:

[wandacleo]

Such interesting posts this morning. I would like to comment on the YWT brouhaha (since I brought it up). I had no problem with the people who didn't like the song or felt uncomfortable with it or even didn't want to go to the concert because of it. What I had a problem with was the repeated ranting and raving about how inappropriate it was and how it would ruin his career and how they would walk out (AND the return bashing about people being religious nuts, etc.)

If people feel so strongly about this or anything, they can always stay home. No problem there. I find it offensive when people decide that their personal preference gives them the right to dictate to Clay (and the rest of the fandom by default.) I personally (although you would have to look hard to find a bigger heathen) loved YWT so much I bought a songbook so I could play it on the piano. I'd never heard of SCC, and now I'm a big fan. I like Gregorian chants too--but I'm not a Catholic. I love music for the sake of music, so I guess I don't think you have to be religious to appreciate religious music. Others feel differently, and that's ok.

[JennaZ]

Lastly, even though the last two days were a huge disappointment to me, I will not forget the wonderful side of this fandom. It is what keeps me on the boards. There is a tremendous amount of love and generosity in the online fandom. I hear of examples every day. And that brings a warmth to my heart.

Glad to see you posting here, lovethatguy!

I look back at my last few posts and realize that I have been on a rant about the fandom. But you do make a point that shouldn't be overlooked.

For all its faults, the fandom can also be extraordinarily giving. I've seen so many people hand out expensive tickets without asking a penny in return. Any fan who can't afford a CD, a membership, or a concert will find many willing to help them out, with no expectation of payback. And people will go out of their way to provide transportation to fellow fans, even for complete strangers. Yes, I'm looking at you, lovethatguy.

There really are the friendships. I am happy to say I've met many of you on this board, and have enjoyed you in person even more than I enjoy you online. It really is amazing how Clay can bring people together of different ages, backgrounds, and experiences. You can meet a Clay fan for the first time, and in an instant, you're chatting together as if you'd known each other forever.

And I gotta say, I love that there are so many intelligent, articulate people in the fandom, especially here. I may not always agree with everyone, but it is, to me, extremely satisfying to discuss subjects with people who like to use punctuation and grammar. Seriously, it's nice to have real conversations with people who actually put a little thought into what they post.

Kare-kare (oxtail stew) -- my absolute favorite Filipino food. But if I could only eat one thing for the rest of my life, it would be sushi. I'm absolutely addicted.

Grits -- just can't get into them, though I have tried. My husband's from Louisiana, so I made some a few weeks ago. We put cheese and butter on it, and maybe I just didn't make them well, but sorry, I just can't get excited about them.

Edited September 13, 2007 by JennaZ

[Mandler]

Right back atcha, YSRN.

That know-it-all expert fan is seductive, though. It frustrates and embarrasses me now, but there was a time in this fandom when I was "so gullible" and bought into some BS artist's bill of goods. I guess maybe I was more "Pollyanna" than I realized at the beginning of the fandom, and it didn't immediately occur to me that not everyone loved Clay in the fun way I did. It was beyond my comprehension that someone would go to such lengths and use other people to get what they perceived as "closer" to Clay. I think those sorts of people can sense the vulnerabilities of others. And, unfortunately, my vulnerabilities were exploited. Lesson learned and no permanent (I hope) harm done, but it drives me crazy to see the same thing happen to other people.

It's called being older, but wiser. You learned. What bugs the heck out of me is that some people never learn, or I should say, want to learn. I think they want to be taken in by the BS artist because that way they can still believe the fantasy.

Not to get all lit-geeky, but a few days ago, I came across a line in the Wharton novel I'm reading that really reminded me of, well, humanity in general, but it applies to some of the current fandom conversation, I think. "For weeks it had hung on the edge of consciousness, but he had turned from it with the heart's instinctive clinging to the unrealities by which it lives." (The Custom of the Country) I guess I think that truth is sometimes painful, and in some ways, I empathize with the people who cling to fantasies. At some point - when the fantasy supersedes reality or becomes destructive - it has to stop, however. And when some person with ulterior motives is feeding the destruction, that's just despicable. [/personal rant]

Edited September 13, 2007 by Mandler

[sheiladownunder]

Kim Locke responded and the wheels on the bus go round and round.

[YSRN]

http://kimberleylockeweb.com/index.php?opt...9&Itemid=37

And here is her response:

Clarification

Written by Kimberley Locke

Thursday, 13 September 2007

I just wanted to clarify that recently during an interview regarding my "Christmas" album will Billboard, I was asked about any fellow Idols that I may speak with. I mentioned that I had spoken with only Clay and Ruben because I do try my best to keep in touch with them. I went on to say in that interview that I had spoken with them about a reunion concert tour idea and that Ruben and Clay were game for it because they told me they were. In fact, in my last conversation with Clay he suggested that my manager and agents contact his. They did. And they have spoken. And in telling Billboard we were "in talks" and "Now it's up to our agents and managers to book it," I was being truthful in the information that I had received. I told Billboard I was "hopeful" that the tour would come together. (That didn't get printed.) In no way did I imply that we were all committed to this tour idea. So contrary to Clay feeling "unfortunate," that the story "found it's way to the press unauthorized," it was not "unauthorized." It was put out there my me, who conceived the touring idea and called my friends for their involvement. If Clay had chosen to return my phone calls over the last two months, he would perhaps not feel as "unfortunate," and he would have been made aware that I mentioned it to Billboard. I want to thank the fans of Clay and Ruben and my own who were positive and supportive of this idea, which again, was just an idea. It will now be put to rest.

...

One Love,

KL

[KAndre]

Oooooo.

Well, now everybody's pissy!

And I'll give her credit for owning up to what went out - I have to dink her for going forward when she hadn't heard from Clay in TWO MONTHS. Girl, there's a book, "He's Just Not That Into You".

Ah well. Still think the sound would have been pretty.

[YSRN]

Girl, there's a book, "He's Just Not That Into You".

Hee.

[merrieeee]

Kim don't you know by now the brush off in the Biz is "Have your agent call mine"?

[wandacleo]

Re: Kim. Wishful thinking can be a powerful convincer.

I'm ready to move on since I never saw the big deal in the first place. LOL.

I'll let Kim and Clay hash this out.

[neverlipsync]

sigh...you know, I've tried to give her the benefit of the doubt these last few days but....this....dang. I'm just liking her less and less. Clay was so classy in his response and there she goes getting all personal and pissy.

Seriously, if she hadn't heard from him and he wasn't returning her calls for 2 months, at least according to her, how many more clues did she need?

[Bookwhore]

I don't do this whole fan thing for Clay. I do it for me...I am having a ball, I don't want it to stop. I am not buying a piece of Clay! He fascinates me. I love watching him forge a career in his own distinctive way. If he hands over his career, his decisions, to a committee of internet fans, then I'm not seeing Clay, I'm seeing them.

I need more time to savor all the great posts here...

I don't have time to catch up right now...damn work! But I saw your post champion and it could have been written by me. Glad ot know I'm not the only selfish person in the fandom . This is all about how much fun can I have. I don't buy CD's from a particular store because they report to soundscan or wherever, if I find the CD early, I buy it because I want to hear it. I don't worry about if it counts towards first week sales. I don't think first week sales are as important as long-term sales, anyway. I go to concerts because I want to see and hear Clay (and hang with my friends), not because I'm hoping some suit will notice how full the venue is and think "Oh, Clay is really a popular fella!" When I'm not having fun anymore, I will go away. For now I'm having probably the best time I've ever had in my life. I can't imagine that changing, but who knows what the future will bring?

Ah shit. My boss is 'dropping' by this afternoon.

[KAndre]

Though I bet a lot of the pissiness stems from the beating she was taking from some in ClayNation - However, now she's playing into it. No way she can win this.

Oh well. Still don't really care. Still am willing to eat Jello with canned fruit in it.

[Bookwhore]

Oooooo.

Well, now everybody's pissy!

And I'll give her credit for owning up to what went out - I have to dink her for going forward when she hadn't heard from Clay in TWO MONTHS. Girl, there's a book, "He's Just Not That Into You".

Ah well. Still think the sound would have been pretty.

:lmaosmiley-1: You owe me a new keyboard!

Re: Kim. Wishful thinking can be a powerful convincer.

I'm ready to move on since I never saw the big deal in the first place. LOL.

I'll let Kim and Clay hash this out.

Excellent EXCELLENT EXCELLENT advice! Can we make it a law?

Edited September 13, 2007 by Bookwhore

[jmh123]

I don't know. I think after having been raked over the coals by Clay's fans for a couple of days and experiencing the wrath of the Aiken, I'd be pissy too. I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt and let it go.

ETA: Or what KAndre said. And jello with canned fruit cocktail was a special treat for us growing up. Especially on the rare occasions that it came with whipped cream sprayed from an aerosole can. Just one dollop allowed, of course.

Edited September 13, 2007 by jmh123

[merrieeee]

experiencing the wrath of the Aiken,

Now why does that sound Hawt?

[bottlecap]

Pops a couple of Advil and looks for a dark room and a chaise dramatically swoon onto...

Whatever. Do you think Ruben is somewhere shaking his head over this and chuckling?