#16 Veins flowing with personality, thighs dripping with character.

[Claygasm]

sigh...you know, I've tried to give her the benefit of the doubt these last few days but....this....dang. I'm just liking her less and less. Clay was so classy in his response and there she goes getting all personal and pissy.

Seriously, if she hadn't heard from him and he wasn't returning her calls for 2 months, at least according to her, how many more clues did she need?

Responding again without cathcing up.....

I may never catch up....

BUT - maybe Clay should have called her before HE responded!! He must have known she had been trying to get in touch with him. Wouldn't you think he could have taken 5 minutes out of his "busy" schedule to call her and say "What the hell is going on Kim?". Then maybe he wouldn't have sounded like such a hard ass in his response.

I think Kim sounded hurt as well as pissed in her statement. I think she had every right to be.

(I know I will be ducking tomatos for saying that.....)

It goes both ways folks. And I personally think it was rude of Clay not to return her calls for 2 months (that of course may be an exaggeration....). What - he didn't have a few moments to call her back???

Clay can really be a jerk sometimes. I love him but he can be a jerk.

He is a man after all....

[wandacleo]

I think that both Clay and Kim could be right and they could both be wrong.

I have no way of knowing.

Sometimes people just hear what they want to hear and misunderstand.

Sometimes messages don't go through (I can attest to that since the messages on my phone didn't work for about 2 months even though people THOUGHT they left me messages, and half the time I don't get the messages my daughter leaves me on my cell phone).

Sometimes people forget to call or think they have called or just forget about calling.

Sometimes assistants who are supposed to take care of things don't.

Sometimes people are afraid to say no because they don't want to hurt someone's feelings.

Sometimes people suggest the answer is yes when it isn't.

Sometimes people send out clues to an answer but the receiver misses the clues.

Sometimes friends get upset with each other.

[canuck2010]

Hmm. I've never known him to be a jerk. Blindsided though.

[Ansamcw]

I think that both Clay and Kim could be right and they could both be wrong.

I have no way of knowing.

Sometimes people just hear what they want to hear and misunderstand.

Sometimes messages don't go through (I can attest to that since the messages on my phone didn't work for about 2 months even though people THOUGHT they left me messages, and half the time I don't get the messages my daughter leaves me on my cell phone).

Sometimes people forget to call or think they have called or just forget about calling.

Sometimes assistants who are supposed to take care of things don't.

Sometimes people are afraid to say no because they don't want to hurt someone's feelings.

Sometimes people suggest the answer is yes when it isn't.

Sometimes people send out clues to an answer but the receiver misses the clues.

Sometimes friends get upset with each other.

Amen to all...and through all this...I do hope this dies a natural death...that hurt feelings will be healed...and the fandom goes back to the boring anticipation of another tour.

[clayrev1956]

And I personally think it was rude of Clay not to return her calls for 2 months (that of course may be an exaggeration....).

I think it very well may be an exaggeration. JMHO And how many times did Kim call him during those two months? Twenty times? Eight times? Twice? Once maybe? And did she call him directly or leave a message with his PA? Did he ever get the message(s)?

[Couch Tomato]

And I personally think it was rude of Clay not to return her calls for 2 months (that of course may be an exaggeration....).

I think it very well may be an exaggeration. JMHO And how many times did Kim call him during those two months? Twenty times? Eight times? Twice? Once maybe? And did she call him directly or leave a message with his PA? Did he ever get the message(s)?

Something none of us will ever know unless they tell us. I for one hope the public part of this is over.

The one thing that interested me is:

In fact, in my last conversation with Clay he suggested that my manager and agents contact his. They did. And they have spoken.

Forget whether he got her message, or didn't call her back.... did these managers and agents actually talk and where did that go. Seems to me it got passed Clay, Ruben and Kim all kinda sitting around talking.

If Clay's people said NO, then she should have known. But I have no way of knowing that and won't assume it at this point. Who knows what tomorrow will bring.

I'm still hoping for a quick death. This was no "foot on armrest" kind of story - not even close - yet.

[Ansamcw]

sigh...you know, I've tried to give her the benefit of the doubt these last few days but....this....dang. I'm just liking her less and less. Clay was so classy in his response and there she goes getting all personal and pissy.

Seriously, if she hadn't heard from him and he wasn't returning her calls for 2 months, at least according to her, how many more clues did she need?

Responding again without cathcing up.....

I may never catch up....

BUT - maybe Clay should have called her before HE responded!! He must have known she had been trying to get in touch with him. Wouldn't you think he could have taken 5 minutes out of his "busy" schedule to call her and say "What the hell is going on Kim?". Then maybe he wouldn't have sounded like such a hard ass in his response.

I think Kim sounded hurt as well as pissed in her statement. I think she had every right to be.

(I know I will be ducking tomatos for saying that.....)

It goes both ways folks. And I personally think it was rude of Clay not to return her calls for 2 months (that of course may be an exaggeration....). What - he didn't have a few moments to call her back???

Clay can really be a jerk sometimes. I love him but he can be a jerk.

He is a man after all....

I half agree with you...but what keeps me from calling him a jerk is the situation he found himself in being virtually attacked by his own fans. I agree...I think he should've waited a bit to know the full situation before blogging again. The time lapse from both blogs was so short that I wonder if Clay actually knew how the news got to the fans. BUT I can understand why he wanted to respond right away and why he sounded pissed. But I don;t think he acted that way just to lay the blame on Kim.

Now not returning her calls...again...I really hesitate to judge. This is just how she characterizes it. Her little jumping of the gun kinda chipped her credibility with me so I am not prepared to take her word on that.

[muskifest]

Know what I think? (muski smiles innocently under the delusion that anybody really does )....

We don't KNOW what went down between those two....never will. (Although the ironic thing is that before I even started my perusal of today's events in that arena, for the first time in a long time I re-read the first chapter of NBBT...heh. Now THAT's the kind of thing that should be going down.... )...

I'm not gonna get into the speculating game about who called whom, when and how often; who didn't return whose calls or practice avoidance; why someone said this or that with those words or these...

In fact, I'm starting to feel very uncomfortable about this whole thing---like I'm a voyeur into their emails or something and well....

They're both 'public' people now, so they have to live with whatever they make public. They DON'T have to let me in to whatever they do privately (demmit).

Whatever. I just want my face to stop hurting (shutup).

Edited September 14, 2007 by muskifest

[Claygasm]

I am getting off this board for awhile.

I am feel a great disconnect for the first time in a long time.

And right now, I am disappointed in Clay. When I read his blog on the subject I thought he sounded a tad testy and wondered if he had even bothered to call Kim and ask her what was going on.

IMO, he was a jerk for not doing that.

Was she without fault? No. But either was he.

I don't know the ins and outs of their personal relationship but he could have returned that call.

He was a jerk when he didn't call his sister back.

He was a jerk for not calling Kim back.

He is obviously into avoidance. He's too old for that.

For all of Clay's wonderful qualities I think we lose sight from time to time that he is just a 28 year old man - which means he is immature still in many ways.

This is just one example.

Both he and Kim should have discussed everything and hashed it out in private - not on the internet. Then after they calmed down, they could have both crafted a statement that didn't sound like a cat fight - on both their parts.

But I am sure I am one of the very few in this fandom that will call Clay on his jerkiness.

Just one more example of the disconnect I feel.

I love so many people at this board, but lately I have felt myself struggling to feel part of it. I am sure its just something inside me that I will have to work through.

I hope I can.

In the meantime, carry on with the fun and the smut and the intelligent conversation. Its still the best board in Clay land.

See you later gators! :F_05BL17blowkiss:

[Bookwhore]

Is it ok to come in here and say I feel sorry for Kim? I know it's not the prevailing sentiment right now, but I do feel kind of sorry for her. She made a mistake. Big deal. I agree, it was wrong to release that information as though it were a done deal, approved by all parties. She was probably hopeful and excited. And the reason it became a big deal was because of the reaction of Clay's fans. Ii cannot begin to imagine what it must have been like for her being on the receiving end of the wrath of ClayNation. We** can be, and often are, unnecessarily brutal in our responses.

Yes, her retaliatory response to Clay's blog was hasty and immature. Clay fans know all about immature, don't we? All we have to do is read back over the last three days at our own posts...our posts to each other, to Clay, to Kim and Ruben. Epitome of immaturity, yet I'll bet a weeks pay that most of us are a whole lot older and wiser that Kim. No doubt she responded in kind to what she'd been receiving. Doesn't make it right, but it does make it understandable (IMO). Champion posted something yesterday about stepping back and doing a bit of self-reflection in the way we reacted to the news, and why. I imagine Kim will probably be doing the same thing at some point.

So, I'm going to cut Kim a whole lot of slack right now and will only tighten the grip if she decides, as Couchie mentioned, to spill a bunch of personal information about Clay to some tabloid. Then, Katie bar the door...I'll go after her with my bare hands!

**collective 'we'. This post is in no way directed at any one particular poster, post, board, forum, webiste, or any other entity. In other words, it's not personal.

Edited September 14, 2007 by Bookwhore

[muskifest]

CG, I have a feeling that your disconnect is from more than Clayland...but take care of yourself. :F_05BL17blowkiss:

Both he and Kim should have discussed everything and hashed it out in private - not on the internet. Then after they calmed down, they could have both crafted a statement that didn't sound like a cat fight - on both their parts.

I happen to desperately agree with this part of your post. What you're suggesting is the adult way to have handled this whole bullshit, imo....whether he called her before posting, I don't know...but if he had, his blog is oddly and 'unfortunately' crafted, in tone at least. If he hadn't called (which is my guess), then I think that was a mistake. Then the second blog seems to be him reacting in a kneejerk way, the same way Kim did in her message to the world.

Again, it all seems a bit junior high to me...reminds me of the stuff I hear Carrie talking about with friends on the phone. She's 12. All the he said/she saids and not just calm (and private) discussion and resolution between the two parties involved.

Hah...just occurred to me that if these two had been members of a certain board and had done this kind of communication on the main thread, they'd both be eating fish for dinner! :lmaosmiley-1:

[woo lovereyes]

Like I said when I found myself a few pages back on top"I know nuttin" Will probably never speak to Clay or Kim about this. Soooo no need to speculate.

How about some sexy pics?

[FromClaygary]

I am soooooo behind, as I want to read every . single . word of what went on here over the last couple of days....VERY interesting and thought provoking posts, and thanks so much for the great responses to my questions!

Crap, I hope I'm not screwing up these quotes...if I've misquoted you accidentally because I pressed so many buttons, forgive me!

with regards to talking about the bords on the boards...ITA with couchie..I think there is a point where things need to be hashed out or else wounds are allowed to fester. I do respect other boards rules, but I think its the height of hypocrisy to edit people for being judgemental of other posters yet post after post disrespecting Clay and his friends are allowed to stand. I think the line between criticism and outright bashing or disrespect towards Clay has become more and more blurred.

I definitely agree with both of the above points...really, really agree with the bolded. Nahh....really agree with it ALL.

It's too far gone now to go back and clarify my 'EW blurb' post, but I did want to add that, yes, I think that was a catalyst, but it was the reaction, especially by some of the most venerated (right or wrong) online fans that fanned the flames. They not only validated the anti-covers sentiment (which inevitably became anti-ATDW sentiment), they encouraged it, albeit at first mostly through PM and back channels. There are some I will never forgive for it. This is of course, only my opinion.

Nope...it definitely is not only your opinion. There is still one of the "venerated" fans who probably will run over me in an alley if she ever meets me, for telling her the exact same thing at that time. In no uncertain terms. I do not enjoy hurting people's feelings, but sometimes you have to just tell it like it is. Consequently, I get "modded" at that board continually, for stuff the next poster posts without comment or interference.

Just needed to mention....love broccoli, cauliflower and brussel sprouts...even without the cheese. Don't really care for chocolate. And I clap off-beat too.

I'm the same way love all the vitK veggies and can live without chocolate, but give me some candy corn or good and plentys and I'm happy. To add one more disgusting thing about food, we used to fight over the chicken heart, stomach and liver when my mother cooked chicke. Cooked of course.

:F_05BL17blowkiss: Oh, DEAR GAWD!! I think we were separated at birth! Although....the good and plentys....I dunno...

That know-it-all expert fan is seductive, though. It frustrates and embarrasses me now, but there was a time in this fandom when I was "so gullible" and bought into some BS artist's bill of goods. I guess maybe I was more "Pollyanna" than I realized at the beginning of the fandom, and it didn't immediately occur to me that not everyone loved Clay in the fun way I did. It was beyond my comprehension that someone would go to such lengths and use other people to get what they perceived as "closer" to Clay. I think those sorts of people can sense the vulnerabilities of others. And, unfortunately, my vulnerabilities were exploited. Lesson learned and no permanent (I hope) harm done, but it drives me crazy to see the same thing happen to other people.

Me too...in a slightly different fashion. At at time when I was struggling trying to support my kids on my own, it just about put me out for the count. Consequently, I have NO tolerance when I see it happening to others today. None. Zero.

PS Why does my homeboard show up and no one else's does? I just answered the My Control questions- I tried to delete it and it won't let me.

One of the Admins might come along and explain it better, but I understand that was set up recently to help in screening out spambots trying to register at the site - it helps ensure you're a "real" person. As a mod, I can see it for everyone, but I think the regular members only see their own.

Thanks for asking and answering that! I wondered the same thing....and once again, I MUST head off to bed to be able to get up tomorrow and get to work. Thanks for the good time!

[Couch Tomato]

I think the thing to remember is that this isn't some life and death thing. We are all fans here of Clay -- doesn't mean we're gonna agree and your opinion doesn't have to be defended into the ground. heee..I'll take that advice myself.. Frankly I think it takes two to tango. It's how relationships work and sometimes one or all fuck up. I think this one boils down to a miscommunication.

I can understand Clay being upset. But I also wondered if he saw just the blog comments or understood the depth of the rabid attack on Kim. I got a hurt vibe from her little pissy note. Like he spanked her in public after she was the one being raw meat for the last two days. But like Muski says, too much speculation without more than surface knowledge.

Ssd sad situation indeed. I certainly hope they patch it up. Pretty pictures anyone?

Claygasm :F_05BL17blowkiss:

[Thankful4Clay]

You know I don't blame Kim for being pissed and I think she replied nicer than a lot of people would.

I disagree big time. I haven't had a chance to catch up reading all the posts, but I just want to say that I think what Kim and her publicist(s) did was extremely unprofessional and very unfair to Clay and Ruben. The interview with Billboard was filled with too many details for this to be a simple misunderstanding. And don't you think that before putting news of a professional commitment in a press release, one should have confirmed that the other party was firmly committed? I thought her blog was childish and petty. Talk about burning bridges! Why not just simply say, "It was a big misunderstanding. I jumped the gun." and be done with it.

I know that "speculating" is what we do! BUT! I don't think it's fair to speculate on how much encouragement Clay gave Kim other than what he stated in his blog. We have no clue that he did anything else.

I, me, personally, think she layed a big, fat egg and got it all over herself and is pissed that Clay didn't call her up and say "yeah sure, why not?".

As far as speculating, I would bet that if he called her to ask for a retraction, he wasn't terribly gentle about it.

I wouldn't have been.

But then, he's a southern gentleman and I'm a northern bitch!

I was so glad to read the above posts. Claygasm says she is feeling a disconnect. Until I read these posts, I was beginning to think that I don't belong on this board. Everyone is feeling sorry for Kim. Gimme a break.

Kim was delusional. Clay has a new CD (hopefully) coming out in 2008. He and Ruben actually have careers. Why would either one of them want to tour with her? The only one to profit from that type of tour would be Kim.

I think this is my longest post ever on this board. You may all now label me a bitch. That's okay.

I don't feel the least bit sorry for her.

Edited September 14, 2007 by Thankful4Clay

[Couch Tomato]

I think this is my longest post ever on this board. You may all now label me a bitch. That's okay.

I don't feel the least bit sorry for her.

Why would anybody label you a bitch for having an opinion. Have we really come to expect that in Clay Nation. Must everyone agree or they can't communicate at all. I have no issue with what anybody wrote here today- I think expecting to be attacked for an opinion tells me we have some work to do. I expect YOUR opinion to stand and Claygasms and everybody elses here without getting attacked or labeled. Loaded language is what makes folks defensive.

[Mandler]

Personally, I don't think we know enough about the situation from either side to make much of a judgment about Clay's or Kim's motives/thoughts/mistakes. All we have is what has been in "print." Yes, his blog had a tone of exasperation/anger to it. I imagine that might come from being deluged with comments/posts from dozens of whiny children calling themselves his fans. And honestly, when I read it, it just seems like he was trying to be very, very clear so that hopefully no one would find "hidden meanings" in his words. I don't get as much of a "pissy" vibe as other people seem to have gotten.

Kim's words, too, have a tone of frustration and anger. Maybe she's pissed at Clay because he didn't want to do the tour, maybe she interpreted his words to mean that she was wrong to have said anything, maybe he told her she was wrong to say anything. None of us knows that. They could have talked. Doesn't mean he or she would be any less upset in their respective comments.

Was the situation seemingly handled in the most mature of ways? Not really. But God help me if every spat I had with a friend was a matter of public consumption and I had hundreds of relatively uninformed onlookers critiquing my every word/action.

[luckiest1]

I'm not gonna get into the speculating game about who called whom, when and how often; who didn't return whose calls or practice avoidance; why someone said this or that with those words or these...

In fact, I'm starting to feel very uncomfortable about this whole thing---like I'm a voyeur into their emails or something and well....

They're both 'public' people now, so they have to live with whatever they make public. They DON'T have to let me in to whatever they do privately (demmit).

Thanks for saying that so well. It makes me uncomfortable, too. I don't see why anyone should be required to take sides....it's like when you know a couple who have been dating or married and then they split up....it's ridiculous to think that you know who was in the right and who was in the wrong because you weren't a part of the relationship, just overheard a few arguments....you don't know all that went down. Anyways, it's usually somewhere in the middle....like couchie says, it takes two to tango.

I sure hope that the fans can just let this go. I do not see anything remotely funny about the situation, in fact it is quite sad. It is unfortunate that it had to happen right before the AI Rewind show started, because now I forsee a ton of bitchy comments each week about Kim. Blech, I wanna enjoy it.

[merrieeee]

Who called whom, who didn't call, what was said, implicated, denied, was it wishful thinking, was it a form of blackmail. I will NEVER know! I don't care to know. It is none of my business! I don't even know if they were still friends who haven't spoken in months!

So all I have is two blogs written in haste(?). anger(?) malice(?), spitefulness(?). Again I will NEVER know.

From my perpective, only thing I can say is Clay gave her an out and she chose not to take it. Who know why? Just make it go away.

Clay give us another blog about your CD...Xmas tour..anything the natives are restless!

[jazzgirl]

<snip>

BUT - maybe Clay should have called her before HE responded!! He must have known she had been trying to get in touch with him. Wouldn't you think he could have taken 5 minutes out of his "busy" schedule to call her and say "What the hell is going on Kim?". Then maybe he wouldn't have sounded like such a hard ass in his response.

No one else remembers the Rolling Stone quote of:

There's nothing so wrong that it can't be easily fixed or easily ignored. I just let things roll off.

besides me? I agree with the view expressed that Clay may have avoidance issues. I know that quote always stuck with me as one of those Oprah-ish times of when someone is telling you who they are, listen!

I also agree that Clay may not be 100% blameless, but I do leave the major brunt of this "unfortunate event" on Kim's lap for literally announcing the wedding when she hadn't heard from the guy for months. I do sympathize with the view that she may have wanted this badly and from what I have observed of her, she is a hard-working girl and has aggressively worked on keeping her name out there, even if it meant taking some strange gigs like the Celebrity Fit Club. As for Kim mouthing off, she did do that with Simon, didn't she, on national TV, no less! I don't think mouthing out there helped her image either.

As for Clay not getting in touch with Kim before his second blog, he virtually had the Huns storming at his gate in terms of rather strongly worded responses to his blog, the likes of which he had never before seen. I think he made a conscious decision of putting his fans before his friendship with Kim. I think, in this case, given these circumstances, it was the right choice. Rome was burning and he couldn't afford to fiddle.

I can think of one time where Clay did put a friend above his fans and that was with Gregory Ellis and his illness. I think what he did in protecting Gregory's medical issue and his privacy was the right thing there too.

Sometimes people just hear what they want to hear and misunderstand.

And people believe what they want to believe even if you have stated many times the opposite of what they believe (Clay's promo appearances for ATDW on GMA and Larry King come to mind).

Thanks for all the welcomes! It's only my second day here. I like posting fools (gentle snark on Jesse Vargas calling Clay a "singing fool"). Really, there is a lot of action here!

[jamar1700]

Personally, I don't think we know enough about the situation from either side to make much of a judgment about Clay's or Kim's motives/thoughts/mistakes.

Well I know that I don't. But that's all I know.

---

CG :F_05BL17blowkiss:

[muskifest]

I'm gonna go take some more drugs and maybe even live dangerously by combining them with some cabernet...I'm home, not going anywhere and my hubby's home in case something bad happens, right?

But before I go, I think this is a good time to drop off a few goodies...

[Thankful4Clay]

I think this is my longest post ever on this board. You may all now label me a bitch. That's okay.

I don't feel the least bit sorry for her.

Why would anybody label you a bitch for having an opinion. Have we really come to expect that in Clay Nation. Must everyone agree or they can't communicate at all. I have no issue with what anybody wrote here today- I think expecting to be attacked for an opinion tells me we have some work to do. I expect YOUR opinion to stand and Claygasms and everybody elses here without getting attacked or labeled. Loaded language is what makes folks defensive.

Thanks for your response.

I was feeling like I had to agree with the majority here. It felt like the reverse of what was happening at some of the other boards.

It's not easy to come out with an opposing opinion, even if you know you won't get attacked for it.

I do appreciate the lack of colorful ink and smelly fish over here.

[Ansamcw]

I think this is my longest post ever on this board. You may all now label me a bitch. That's okay.

I don't feel the least bit sorry for her.

Why would anybody label you a bitch for having an opinion. Have we really come to expect that in Clay Nation. Must everyone agree or they can't communicate at all. I have no issue with what anybody wrote here today- I think expecting to be attacked for an opinion tells me we have some work to do. I expect YOUR opinion to stand and Claygasms and everybody elses here without getting attacked or labeled. Loaded language is what makes folks defensive.

WORD...I will reiterate...we are allowed to have differing opinion here. its ok to disagree...Whats funny is...soon enough, a new controversy will come up and we will see that people that disagree before may agree or that people that always agree won't. We are all unique individuals and we want the differences respected.

[ldyjocelyn]

Blah, blah, blah....sitting in a meeting with a bunch of other librarians...blah, blah, blah....pull out PDA with wireless capabilities...blah, blah, blah....read email from a friend with KLo's response.

Crap.

My first immediate reaction was "Kim, you blew it." My second thought was, "how much do Clay's fans have to do with this?" My third reaction was "and the rollercoaster goes back down again...."

But so many have said so many good things here today, I can't quote them all.

well you're not alone. There are plenty that believe she was unprofessional. I think just because the discussion is calm doesn't mean people are giving her a free pass. I actually have loved the thoughtful reaction here.

Knowing more, I don't know why she held on to the belief that it was going to happen but perhaps she just wanted it badly. I think she knows Clay well enough to know he wasn't going to be blackmailed into anything - life doesn't work that way especially when you don't even really own yourself professionally. But waxing poetic about something she would have liked to seen - whatever, it's still not a big deal to me. The Curb release is more prolematic but eh, I can say she takes some blame their as well. But she's just not a person I will be writing off and putting on my CLay enemy list.

I do think that ripping off that response was not in her best interest and like Jamar says, she should have posted and then hit back space. But I still believe the worst part in all of this is the way Clay Nation did react, continued to react after Clay's blog and will probably react forever at this point. I just have a feeling that part of her reaction was based in part on the crap she took. But like I said earlier, she now has given them even more ammunition and that is squarely on her.

I hope they work it out.

Total WORD on all this.

I think that both Clay and Kim could be right and they could both be wrong.

I have no way of knowing.

Sometimes people just hear what they want to hear and misunderstand.

Sometimes messages don't go through (I can attest to that since the messages on my phone didn't work for about 2 months even though people THOUGHT they left me messages, and half the time I don't get the messages my daughter leaves me on my cell phone).

Sometimes people forget to call or think they have called or just forget about calling.

Sometimes assistants who are supposed to take care of things don't.

Sometimes people are afraid to say no because they don't want to hurt someone's feelings.

Sometimes people suggest the answer is yes when it isn't.

Sometimes people send out clues to an answer but the receiver misses the clues.

Sometimes friends get upset with each other.

I think this should be required reading for every fan.

Personally, I don't think we know enough about the situation from either side to make much of a judgment about Clay's or Kim's motives/thoughts/mistakes. All we have is what has been in "print." Yes, his blog had a tone of exasperation/anger to it. I imagine that might come from being deluged with comments/posts from dozens of whiny children calling themselves his fans. And honestly, when I read it, it just seems like he was trying to be very, very clear so that hopefully no one would find "hidden meanings" in his words. I don't get as much of a "pissy" vibe as other people seem to have gotten.

Kim's words, too, have a tone of frustration and anger. Maybe she's pissed at Clay because he didn't want to do the tour, maybe she interpreted his words to mean that she was wrong to have said anything, maybe he told her she was wrong to say anything. None of us knows that. They could have talked. Doesn't mean he or she would be any less upset in their respective comments.

Was the situation seemingly handled in the most mature of ways? Not really. But God help me if every spat I had with a friend was a matter of public consumption and I had hundreds of relatively uninformed onlookers critiquing my every word/action.

I'm not gonna get into the speculating game about who called whom, when and how often; who didn't return whose calls or practice avoidance; why someone said this or that with those words or these...

In fact, I'm starting to feel very uncomfortable about this whole thing---like I'm a voyeur into their emails or something and well....

They're both 'public' people now, so they have to live with whatever they make public. They DON'T have to let me in to whatever they do privately (demmit).

Thanks for saying that so well. It makes me uncomfortable, too. I don't see why anyone should be required to take sides....it's like when you know a couple who have been dating or married and then they split up....it's ridiculous to think that you know who was in the right and who was in the wrong because you weren't a part of the relationship, just overheard a few arguments....you don't know all that went down. Anyways, it's usually somewhere in the middle....like couchie says, it takes two to tango.

I sure hope that the fans can just let this go. I do not see anything remotely funny about the situation, in fact it is quite sad. It is unfortunate that it had to happen right before the AI Rewind show started, because now I forsee a ton of bitchy comments each week about Kim. Blech, I wanna enjoy it.

All of these quotes are wise as well.

I'd say more, but I'm tired, I've got to call my husband, and I've got to start my meetings again tomorrow morning at oh-dark-thirty.

:F_05BL17blowkiss: CG. And Thankful -- :F_05BL17blowkiss: to you too. Differing opinions are what make the world go around. And IMO, they help us learn more about ourselves -- as long as they are done with respect.

Oh...and jello should be a desert, not a salad. My Mom totally disagrees. I do remember fondly lime jello with cottage cheese though....