#16 Veins flowing with personality, thighs dripping with character.

[Ansamcw]

sniff

[PuddinsJoy]

It goes both ways folks. And I personally think it was rude of Clay not to return her calls for 2 months (that of course may be an exaggeration....). What - he didn't have a few moments to call her back???

Clay can really be a jerk sometimes. I love him but he can be a jerk.

He is a man after all....

That would be a common courtesy, if the two were still friends. We don't know that something may have transpired in the last four years or four months or four days that broke that line of communication down and gave him good cause for not calling back. We also don't know if Kim was personally calling Clay for two months, or if her people were trying to call his people for two months. We also don't know that she didn't call him 200 times in those 2 months - yikes! I wouldn't call her back either and I'd change my number quick. Get a clue please!

Either way, in no way is Clay a jerk here. The fact that he didn't call her tells me all I need to know, because as a rule, imho, he would be more courteous. When push comes to shove, I will give Clay the benefit of the doubt. Besides, we really don't know enough about how things really happened to lay fault anywhere, imho

and I guess while I'm postulatin', I have to disagree that all men are jerks CG - cause they're not

Edited September 14, 2007 by PuddinsJoy

[Stargazer]

Somebody wanted pictures?

[muskifest]

I have to disagree that all men are jerks CG - cause they're not.

Oh, I gotta come in here, Puddins Joy, just in case you're serious...because I know CG and I know her comment "He's a man after all." (which is different from "all men are jerks", imo) was pure snark and nothing more or less.

I know for a fact that she doesn't believe that all men are jerks because she's met my hubby and Karen Eh's hubby and covets them both. :lmaosmiley-1:

Now...where's that cabernet?

[laljeterfan]

Personally, I don't think we know enough about the situation from either side to make much of a judgment about Clay's or Kim's motives/thoughts/mistakes. All we have is what has been in "print." Yes, his blog had a tone of exasperation/anger to it. I imagine that might come from being deluged with comments/posts from dozens of whiny children calling themselves his fans. And honestly, when I read it, it just seems like he was trying to be very, very clear so that hopefully no one would find "hidden meanings" in his words. I don't get as much of a "pissy" vibe as other people seem to have gotten.

Kim's words, too, have a tone of frustration and anger. Maybe she's pissed at Clay because he didn't want to do the tour, maybe she interpreted his words to mean that she was wrong to have said anything, maybe he told her she was wrong to say anything. None of us knows that. They could have talked. Doesn't mean he or she would be any less upset in their respective comments.

Was the situation seemingly handled in the most mature of ways? Not really. But God help me if every spat I had with a friend was a matter of public consumption and I had hundreds of relatively uninformed onlookers critiquing my every word/action.

I tend to be slightly less that tactful sometimes when I have strong opinions about something, so let me just WORD this entire post- with special added attention to the last paragraph. Perfect!

[lovethatguy]

Can I ask a newbie question and risk pissing off some folks?

Why is it ok to call Clay a jerk?

Is that not disrespectful? Apparently not, so I am having trouble figuring out what the lines are here.

I know several of you came here to avoid what you felt was disrespect to Clay elsewhere so I am really confused.

[woo lovereyes]

I'm gonna go take some more drugs and maybe even live dangerously by combining them with some cabernet...I'm home, not going anywhere and my hubby's home in case something bad happens, right?

But before I go, I think this is a good time to drop off a few goodies...

That one is my favorite from this past tour!!!! Mama...

[jumpingjacks]

My two cents...neither of these episodes affected me so that I think Clay is a jerk or Kim is to blame....it was a screw up and, had the fans kept their damned noses out of it, it probably would have disappeared as quickly as it appeared.

It seems immature to me but, they are both at least 20 years younger than I am...yeah, they probably are a little immature.

I think they both reacted out of maybe shock...a bit of anger...and, truthfully, I thought Clay's second blog was directed toward the fans. That's what I thought he was pissy about.

[Bookwhore]

My two cents...neither of these episodes affected me so that I think Clay is a jerk or Kim is to blame....it was a screw up and, had the fans kept their damned noses out of it, it probably would have disappeared as quickly as it appeared.

It seems immature to me but, they are both at least 20 years younger than I am...yeah, they probably are a little immature.

I think they both reacted out of maybe shock...a bit of anger...and, truthfully, I thought Clay's second blog was directed toward the fans. That's what I thought he was pissy about.

Wow, word.for.word I agree with your post. It's exactly what I've been thinking for two days. Well, except for that "20 years younger than I am" part. I wish I was only 20 years older than they.

Edited September 14, 2007 by Bookwhore

[liney23]

OMG, Stargazer... those are simply gorgeous!

Back to something just terribly important.... jello!

My kids just loved a desert I made from jello, so I'm going to share it... scroll at will.

I used parfait glasses, but you can use any kind of tall glasses.

Make a color of jello (I did red/whitish/blue for July) Green/red... whatever.

Fill one-fourth of glass with one color, tip the glass sideways in the fridge and let harden.

Fill next one-fourth, tip, let harden.

Etc.

Top with whipped cream to the top and above.

Fun, delicious (it doesn't wiggle if it's contained in a glass, people who hate wiggling anything).

Now, for something even more important...

And, not to ignore his other side...

And, for Muski, in her misery... (awwwww)

I barely Survived this one...

One of my faves... tho bleary, dang it!

With that, I have to go do what I have to go do for this evening... By the time I get back, there will probably be 10 pages to read before I can post again...

[laughn]

I wanted to send out a :F_05BL17blowkiss: to all the thoughtful posts here. I happen to believe as others have stated that we aren't privy to all the facts, so all we can toss around are our best guesses as to what really happened....basically, we don't know jack, which is ok, because I spend a lot of my time in real life that way also.

...now, I just O-fficialy posted my DCAT recommendations for HYCA in the tour thread. Labor of love I tell ya'!

...eta...it's a curse blessing!

...son of eta....Lordy, he's a beautiful man!

Edited September 14, 2007 by laughn

[Bookwhore]

OOoooooo...are we trading jello recipes?

2 pkgs cherry jello

2 c. boiling water

1 can cherry pie filling (undrained)

Mix the above until dissolved, put in pretty clear-glass bowl and let set. Top with a thick layer of whipped cream. This is affectionately called "Cherry Jello Stuff" in my family. Seriously. In 25 years no one has come up with a better name for it, but it's on the request list for every family holiday dinner.

[JennaZ]

There is a lot we don't know. We don't know the state of their relationship. We weren't there when the idea of the tour came up. We don't know why Kim seemed to believe Clay agreed to the tour or why he seemed to think otherwise.

Kim says Clay hadn't returned her calls in two months. That's her side of the story. Clay said neither he nor his management ever committed to the project. That's his side of the story. Who do you believe?

Personally, I'm trying to give both the benefit of the doubt. However, if I have to choose a side, I'm sorry, but I'm choosing Clay's.

I do suspect Clay blogged before calling Kim because he may have been so taken aback by the harsh, angry statements appearing in response to his first blog. People were so wrong, and so unfair, that is it any wonder that his first impulse would be to set the record straight?

And then fans grabbed those words and threw them in Kim's face, probably with accusations that she was a liar. So maybe her first impulse was to defend herself, using words she probably shouldn't have.

I hope that both have talked, and resolved whatever misunderstandings may have occurred. I hope that fans, regardless of their position, can get over this.

And I hope this whole issue dies a quick and quiet death.

[Bookwhore]

Anyone up for a little 'triple threat'?

[wandacleo]

Jello pie recipe

1 sm package of any kind of jello

1/2 cup boiling water or other liquid

Dissolve jello

Using a potato masher, quickly mash in 2 cups of slightly softened (but not melted) ice cream.

Pour into pie crust or over fruit or wherever.

OK, strawberry jello/ice cream poured over sliced strawberries in a graham cracker crust is PRIMO!

Lime jello dissolved in creme de menthe with mint ice cream--to die for--in chocolate crust.

And, here's exactly how I feel about all the fuss of the last few days.

Edited September 14, 2007 by wandacleo

[bottlecap]

Can I ask a newbie question and risk pissing off some folks?

Why is it ok to call Clay a jerk?

Is that not disrespectful? Apparently not, so I am having trouble figuring out what the lines are here.

I know several of you came here to avoid what you felt was disrespect to Clay elsewhere so I am really confused.

I'm the farthest thing from a newbie here, and I have to admit I'm a little flummoxed by that myself.

[wandacleo]

Can I ask a newbie question and risk pissing off some folks?

Why is it ok to call Clay a jerk?

Is that not disrespectful? Apparently not, so I am having trouble figuring out what the lines are here.

I know several of you came here to avoid what you felt was disrespect to Clay elsewhere so I am really confused.

I'm the farthest thing from a newbie here, and I have to admit I'm a little flummoxed by that myself.

I think I'd reserve words like jerk for PH or his ilk.

[Ansamcw]

Can I ask a newbie question and risk pissing off some folks?

Why is it ok to call Clay a jerk?

Is that not disrespectful? Apparently not, so I am having trouble figuring out what the lines are here.

I know several of you came here to avoid what you felt was disrespect to Clay elsewhere so I am really confused.

yup you are really keeping us real here...but its ok...

I have to admit that I was going back and forth about this even before you asked this question. I know CG's words were pretty blunt...but from what I understand she is being specific to his behavior in this instance..which could be seen as being a jerk when seen on its own. I know that CG thinks highly of Clay...loves him but at this instance she is not too impressed with his behavior...and she is simply expressing that. I tend to agree that Clay is not perfect...there will be times that he will act like a jerk...it happens.

this is not an official stand...Couchie will be posting about that and she may disagree with me. But this is my personal reaction and the reason why I let her post stand as is.

[Ansamcw]

Can I ask a newbie question and risk pissing off some folks?

Why is it ok to call Clay a jerk?

Is that not disrespectful? Apparently not, so I am having trouble figuring out what the lines are here.

I know several of you came here to avoid what you felt was disrespect to Clay elsewhere so I am really confused.

I'm the farthest thing from a newbie here, and I have to admit I'm a little flummoxed by that myself.

I think I'd reserve words like jerk for PH or his ilk.

Personally ...jerk is too mild a term for him. I guess that may be the difference...i don;t have a very strong reaction to the word.

[aikim]

I guess I am at a loss as to what Clay did that would be considered jerk behavior? Is it because he didn't return a phone call for two months and how do we know that is true? Two sides two every story and I always prefer to give Clay the benefit of the doubt.

Kim

[spikesmom]

Lots and lots of really great posts... too many to quote so I'll just WORD y'all for all kinds of reasons... I try not to be too deep a thinker in my fandom - I read contracts for a living - that's deep enough for me and thinking deep often makes my head hurt... Shallow should be my middle name...

Like I mentioned, I'm here for the fun and I try really hard to stay away from and out of the shit (my toes hate that squishy feeling!)... it's not that I'm oblivious to it, I'm at least aware of most of it if not intimate with it and I could angst away with the best of them if I wanted, but being shallow and all, I try hard as hell to ignore it and just cling to the smut... besides, thanks to Mrs. Ode, my 7th/8th grade English teacher who made me hate grammar and sentence structure with the heat of a zillion burning suns (tm someone somewhere I'm sure), I don't put my thoughts into words as well as so many others... that causes me to avoid putting any deep thinking I do into words on paper...

So on to one of my other favorite subjects which it appears we ARE still discussing...

OOoooooo...are we trading jello recipes?

2 pkgs cherry jello

2 c. boiling water

1 can cherry pie filling (undrained)

Mix the above until dissolved, put in pretty clear-glass bowl and let set. Top with a thick layer of whipped cream. This is affectionately called "Cherry Jello Stuff" in my family. Seriously. In 25 years no one has come up with a better name for it, but it's on the request list for every family holiday dinner.

Just ran into the kitchen, all the ingredients, check! Fired up some boiling water and now have Cherry Jello Stuff setting in my fridge! My son is a cherry fiend and saw it on the counter as the water was getting to boiling and immediately asked what was up. I suspect Cherry Jello Stuff will be his breakfast tomorrow! Thanks! Yeah, we're all about healthy eating and shi.. stuff like that...

[wandacleo]

Can I ask a newbie question and risk pissing off some folks?

Why is it ok to call Clay a jerk?

Is that not disrespectful? Apparently not, so I am having trouble figuring out what the lines are here.

I know several of you came here to avoid what you felt was disrespect to Clay elsewhere so I am really confused.

I'm the farthest thing from a newbie here, and I have to admit I'm a little flummoxed by that myself.

I think I'd reserve words like jerk for PH or his ilk.

Personally ...jerk is too mild a term for him. I guess that may be the difference...i don;t have a very strong reaction to the word.

I don't know. Jerk seems pretty insulting to me.

[Couch Tomato]

Lovethatguy -

I'm not going to spend my day monitoring every single word spoken to edit people into oblivion. Unless someone carries a constant, oppresive tone to their posts, and that is definitely not Claygasm, then I think we as adults can handle the term jerk - which she ascribed to behavior, not the man's general personality. And I would never ever call JP or PH jerks. I have words for them with real bite to them. I don't know a single person in this world, including people closest to me that I'm not disappointed in now and then and that's what she expressed. That opinion can stand without bringing the entire board to a halt. Trollish, hateful posts won't be tolerated. The line is not scientific and maybe everyone won't agree - and guess what, you have the right to tell me that. I hope that is enough of an explanation to move the conversation forward. If anyone has more issues, PM me.

Bottle, Ansa, KAndre, YSRN, LdyJ - you follow your own conscience. You have the power.

[Ansamcw]

I guess I am at a loss as to what Clay did that would be considered jerk behavior? Is it because he didn't return a phone call for two months and how do we know that is true? Two sides two every story and I always prefer to give Clay the benefit of the doubt.

Kim

If you disagree...thats fine. But everyone has a different threshold. I was surprised when Kim said Clay hasn't returned her call for two months....as I said...I don;t know the situation, I don't know if she is telling the truth. but taken at face value, I would consider a person not returning a friends call for two months pretty rude if there is no reasonable explanation.

Now my gut feel is to be like you. I do tend to give Clay the benefit of the doubt here. But to be fair I have to say that it is possible that Clay is in the wrong. We just don;t know at this point. To me...the situation is not dire enough to make me angry with Clay or disappointed even cos I do not expect him to be perfect. I also do not feel its enough to crucify Kim either. I still choose to believe this is all just some misunderstanding and miscommunication and a situation that became bad because of fans over reaction.

[keepingfaith]

I just skipped ahead about four pages to ask if it is written in some fan handbook that I should have a strong opinion about this "he said / she said" because I just don't. Could.not.care.less. I'm not mad at anybody. I'm not disappointed in anybody. I'm not curious about it. I haven't gone to Kim's website or looked anywhere. I haven't been tempted to read all about it at OFC or on any other board other than this one. Because for some reason this whole thing is not that interesting to me, and I'm not even interested in analyzing why. However, I can get all cooked up for other things -- pictures like this for instance

and I do heat up with this kind of stuff ...

not to mention this which does all kinds of things ...

I hope I'm not misunderstood by those who do have strong feelings. I have all kinds of respect for that, but I don't have a lot to say myself because I'm just not there. So, put me in the not.an.issue camp and I'll just amuse myself with pictures of Clay .... and awaiting the release of more clack from Scarlett. The mention of the Interlochen Motown and thinking about more from West Palm Beach is doing me right and pointing the way forward.

I keep thinking about that lunch he had with Tyra -- the second time for them at Jean Georges (and she said he paid).

worth a look ....

Over and out.