Idol Rewind - season 2

[luckiest1]

I missed Idol Rewind this weekend. It was a choice between go out with my kids for an informal dinner, or stay home and watch. I opted for kids, but I forgot to set the DVR. So I am hoping for a download this week, or else maybe I can catch it next weekend when they replay it.

claytonic, so cool for you to finally get to see the whole thing!

[claytonic]

well I actually kinda belive Corey's story.... but to try to make money off it or to revive his career was kinda sleezy.

Well, I agree, there was too much smoke to not implicate some kind of fire goin' on .... but I can't get over Pawler's stupidity if most of what Corey said was true.

[claytonic]

Watching the REWIND series with Clay doing the commentary, he looks really tired. His eyes look tired, as if he hasn't had any sleep or something. Is it just me?

I wish he'd worn his glasses, I love his rimless eye-glasses. I'd be happy for him to toss his contacts.

[claytonic]

No Vanessa wasn't on the tour.

WAIT - so there were only 9 on tour? I just realized Corey was not included. Why was Vanessa left out?

And Joshua was also missing from the Grand Finale? I didn't see him.

[playbiller]

Vanessa - well, after Vanessa left the show, she was still supposed to be controlled by the show. Aparently, she did not understand that it was only paid jobs that she was not suppoed to take. She posed nude for a PETA ad, and was allowed to appear on the finale, but when it came to the tour, they did not invite her, although they had another vacancy. Now it could be because there would be 6 girls and 4 guys.But most people thought she was treated this way because of the ad.

One day in her home town area, Clauy pulled Vanessa on stgage to sing God Bless the USA - the big finale. She did not want to get on stage, but it was probably agreed on before hand. i.e. K'andre, did you give her the tour video show as well? as for the real tour video - it was the training ofthe clackgoddesses - Jerome climbing over people taking video cards for his used video card business (snark).

Why Josh Gracin was not on the tour. First thetour was announced and Josh was announced to be going. Josh's fan boards were attwitter, someone talked to Josh and he had permission to go on the tour, he was excited and looking forward to the tour. Then 19E announced that Josh was denied a leave to tour with AI. So even though the military said that Josh was a positive symbol of the military when many people were not happy with the new war, they decided that Josh was not allowed to go on a sould out tour across the us. Interestingly enough, he had been speaking out on more than one show, although we have only one show on file (lots of shows are lost) showing that Josh thought that Ruben would win and Clay would not be allowed to win.

[djs111]

I watched the disco episode yesterday - it was funny how Kimberme managed to get right in between KimL and Carmen and clamp on to them so she would be in any shots getting their reaction to neither of them going home.

Also funny how grim-faced Simon always seemed when watching Clay, although I know there was lots of editing done. Watching again, Simon seems a bit cold about Clay. I hate to project and say Simon was pissy because he had lost a bit of control, but that is what it seems like.

[claytonic]

One day in her home town area, Clauy pulled Vanessa on stgage to sing God Bless the USA - the big finale. She did not want to get on stage, but it was probably agreed on before hand. i.e. K'andre, did you give her the tour video show as well? as for the real tour video - it was the training ofthe clackgoddesses - Jerome climbing over people taking video cards for his used video card business (snark).

YES, she DID - she's made sure I have pretty much everything, I think she was sick of me cluttering this forum with such OLD questions ......

Why Josh Gracin was not on the tour. First thetour was announced and Josh was announced to be going. Josh's fan boards were attwitter, someone talked to Josh and he had permission to go on the tour, he was excited and looking forward to the tour. Then 19E announced that Josh was denied a leave to tour with AI. So even though the military said that Josh was a positive symbol of the military when many people were not happy with the new war, they decided that Josh was not allowed to go on a sould out tour across the us. Interestingly enough, he had been speaking out on more than one show, although we have only one show on file (lots of shows are lost) showing that Josh thought that Ruben would win and Clay would not be allowed to win.

Yes, I saw that on YouTube and it certainly did not take long for his words to become fact.

Also funny how grim-faced Simon always seemed when watching Clay, although I know there was lots of editing done. Watching again, Simon seems a bit cold about Clay. I hate to project and say Simon was pissy because he had lost a bit of control, but that is what it seems like.

Funny you should say that.... you know, it has crossed my mind a number of times that if Simon had NOT said (after Clay performed BOTW) that it could win him the competition, Clay might well have won. What Simon said would have - undoubtedly - put Ruben's supporters in a panic mode, and they would have voted far more strenuously as a result. Simon had wanted Ruben to win from the start, that's now obvious to me, having watched the series in full and seeing the judges' comments to ALL the finalists, not just Clay. I want to repeat that I don't mind Ruben winning, but I really feel the judges should not comment on the Final performances because their comments definitely influence the voters. The ONLY reason Jasmine Trias was able to edge out LaToya London in AI#3 was because Simon was so critical of her performance that it caused her to cry, and that caused Hawaii and every person in the USA with some affiliation to Hawaii and/or the Phillipines to vote her into a safe position, putting Fantasia and LaToya into the bottom 2.

[muskifest]

Just because I feel pissy this morning and can safely take it out on Kimberme...When I watched AIRewind's disco episode, I was feeling close to hurling when everyone was sitting on the red couch after all the performances and Ryan asked them why they thought Simon seemed to be in such a foul mood. (This was the episode where Simon told Clay that everything about his performance was HORRIBLE...)....People seemed a bit uncomfortable and then Clay spoke up---saying that it was confusing since Paula and Randy seemed to have similar assessments of peoples' performances but that Simon disagreed. That the judges' opinions were so polar opposites that it has to confuse the contestants, etc.

Then Ryan turned around and asked for other comments and Kim Caldwell said some ass-kissing thing like, "Well, I like to keep my comments to myself..." and then went on to basically wipe her nose in the judges' and America's butt cracks with some pageant-type answer about world peace or whatever.

Made me want to gag and I had a good time watching the faces of the others sitting there listening to her, trying not to laugh or throw up.

She just SCREAMS 'fake' to me...I knew a lot of girls like her in high school, you know?

[annabear]

Muski, I just love your description of Kimberme! And, yeah, I knew a lot of girls like her in high school, too.

This week's show - - - Wow... I didn't remember Kimberme singing butchering EID. After ATDW, that's another one that belongs to Clay in my book. Carmen singing butchering Blondie. Wasn't crazy about Josh or Ricky either. It amazes me what my ears hear and what comes out of the judge's mouths.

Clay was so freaking CUTE! Orange, but CUTE!

[treenuts]

I have just finished watching AI2 Rewind and I need to find a place to vent. Geez-us what the hell were those people smokin'?! Ruuuu-ben is definilty a sweetie but goddamn I just do not hear what any of them are hearin'. Nadda!! Maybe I just don't know good singing when I hear it? Nahhh

All I see is a lot of ass-kissing. What a snow job. And when Simon said "you could release that song tomorrow and it would be a hit" I was dumbfounded. I nearly muted him while he was performing. WTF

Kim Caldwell was really god aweful that night! Yikes!!

But Clay's "At This Moment" was perfection....baybay!

* I'm not sure I can take another week of them pimping Ruben so overtly * in honor of the Clorange

[playbiller]

Heh, You are lucky you are not watching Entertainment Tonight, the official voice of AI that year. I will never forget the week before finale - where they had 6 days of talking about how loved Ruben was by his family and friends or his neighbors or how he loves music so much......

And they had one show about Clay and how he forgot the words.

[treenuts]

play, you're joking, right? You mean the manipulation went that deep and that far back?! Since I only became a fan shortly after the AI5 Finale I wasn't aware of all of this shit stuff then. Probably a good thing too!

Good lord, Clay has been putting up with this far longer than I originally thought

[playbiller]

The manipulation was outside the show as well. It had a lot to do with the talking points on entertainment shows. Riht now Extra is the the main idolplace, ET has pretty much slowed down, but most entertainment shows said what they wanted to have access to the idols, etc. The last week was a killer though,that is burnt into my brain. I have no video of it though,I didn't have a lot os space on y hard drive. I am always amazed when old stuff pops up. My one claim to fame was saving the video of Clay being interviewed by WRAL before Hollywood week and finding it changing hard drives 2 years ago. I really don't know why no one else saved it. Ah to have access to all that old vault stuff - we used to have vaults go up and down like yoyos. Unfortunately one of the best old vaults owner seems not to be a fan anymore, she had all the ET shows, etc. I tried for the longest time to contact her, to no avail. I really believe the bitchiness and infighteiing gets rid of the most fans.

[claytonic]

play, you're joking, right? You mean the manipulation went that deep and that far back?! Since I only became a fan shortly after the AI5 Finale I wasn't aware of all of this shit stuff then. Probably a good thing too!

Good lord, Clay has been putting up with this far longer than I originally thought

Treenuts

Watch Josh Gracin's prediction in an interview with Matt Lauer shortly after he was eliminated in 4th position.

His prediction is eerie....

I honestly feel that if Simon had not told Clay (after BOTW) that it could win him the competition, Clay might well have won. But it no longer matters, it's not how you start your career, it's how you finish.... And anyway, I wish only the very best for Ruben too, I certainly understand why he was so popular too.

[luckiest1]

I mentioned this on main, but I guess this is the better place to discuss AI Rewind.

I have to disagree, because I loved most of Ruben's performances on Idol, and thought he was super talented. The only thing I used to complain about was his breath control, which seemed to get worse as the season progressed. His rendition of Kiss And Say Goodbye was one of my favourites, and I remember just how much I liked it Saturday when I saw Rewind. I also really liked Trenyce's performance, even though Simon trashed it. The rest of them were meh, including Kim (who I usually like) and Josh always got on my nerves because I always heard him as slightly off key, and I couldn't stand the faces he made while singing.

I honestly don't remember that things were that skewed towards Ruben on the entertainment shows. It seemed pretty even to me, but I sure haven't gone back and rewatched so maybe it's just my rose coloured glasses talking as usual. I wanted Clay to win enough to drive 3 hours to Buffalo and vote on a friend's landline, so don't get me wrong, but I still loved Ruben. Nothing he has done since Idol has compared, IMO.

[playbiller]

Oh, I so remember clearly how the entertainment shows were skewed until the finale - then they were all over Clay talking to him and ignoring Ruben half the time. I used to tape them because Clack was not assured and I had dial up and could not see them real time. I also worked foolish hours and was not home to see them. I sort of think that they were just trying to make the show close.

A lot of people loved Ruben on the show, he did well, but he did get ill towards the end of the show. A few years ago, he commented that he only saw the show's doctor who kept telling him he could keep going and giving him stuff to keep on going, but after 6 months, he went to a different doctor on his own because he could barely walk or get out of bed (he laid down between every take on the Christmas special) and found he had walking pnuemonia for a long time. He also gained 70 pounds on his stint on the show.

I am not saying he is untalented or undeserving, but I have heard enough stories to believe that there were not enough lines and that Clay was very popular (a few letters for others, mail bags for Clay, site after site with 2 hour voting pledges for Clay [and Josh - until he is rumored to have told them to stop doing that after Ruben was in the bottom 2] none for Ruben, etc). Now the on-line community was split on this - some loved Ruben, some loved Clay - no one else reallly factored into it - but how much was because of hype and how much because of performance? There is the newsweek strory wher Simon flat out said he did not want Kim in the finale and the judges giving Ruben advice on how to perform in the final 3 (try wearing a hat, take the hat off, move more, change up the song). I am so lazy, I don't want to have to pull the magazine out.

[ldyjocelyn]

I have the Newsweek article in electronic format (a perk of being a librarian). If anyone needs it, PM me with your email address and I'll send it to you.

[KAndre]

waves madly at Claytonic...

It's hard for me to see about the pimping and who it was really focused on...the only board I was on at the time was TWoP, and it could be that different people paid attention to different things...I never really saw the Ruben pimping but man, oh man! The one that worried me was Josh because it seemed everywhere I looked they were flogging the patriotic crap into the ground and it seemed no matter how badly he did, people said they would vote for him anyway 'cause he was a marine...but then again, I rarely watched the entertainment shows. My memories (faulty though they may be) say it was always Ruben/Clay or Clay/Ruben, like they were some sort of Siamese twins.

[treenuts]

play, you're joking, right? You mean the manipulation went that deep and that far back?! Since I only became a fan shortly after the AI5 Finale I wasn't aware of all of this shit stuff then. Probably a good thing too!

Good lord, Clay has been putting up with this far longer than I originally thought

Treenuts

Watch Josh Gracin's prediction in an interview with Matt Lauer shortly after he was eliminated in 4th position.

His prediction is eerie....

I honestly feel that if Simon had not told Clay (after BOTW) that it could win him the competition, Clay might well have won. But it no longer matters, it's not how you start your career, it's how you finish.... And anyway, I wish only the very best for Ruben too, I certainly understand why he was so popular too.

Thanks, claytonic! I do remember seeing this on youtube before and thinking "Wow, that sounds incredible"....Yea, I was naive!

But now that I have been watching the actual show, or what parts they chose to show, it is glaringly obvious to me. And of course that is JMDAO but man-o-man I don't get it at all. WHY? What was the point of it?

And this -

I certainly understand why he was so popular too.

I DON'T. See, that's what makes this so hard for me. I simply am not liking his voice, his casual performances (blah) and I find nothing charismatic (aside from his dimples) about him whatsoevah! I know I'm in the minority here and that's fine, just don't attack me for sayin'.....k?

I need a drink

[KAndre]

Chick, of course you're not in the minority - the majority just ain't posting in here.

You and Ruben are like me and Green Day/Daughtry/Dave Matthews Band - dear lord, I personally don't see what ANYONE sees in them.

[Couch Tomato]

heee .yep..I was surrounded by Ruben fans in real life...SURROUNDED. He does have a very good voice. R&B is what i normally gravitate to and he seems like a nice guy.

Yep fo rme early on it was Josh... talk about pimping..we were a country at war and they used the fact that he was in the military every chance they got. For half the show I thought he would win. A vote against Josh was a vote against the US of A.

With Ruben, my problem was just not giving him real feedback. And he didn't need it every week..he had lots of great weeks.. but if he sang off key, and he did once or twice, they somehow failed to mention it.

But you know, if I'm a Trenyce fan, I'd think Ruben AND Clay got the pimping and special treatment.

I actually think I'm more influenced by the talk that came later as I thoroughly enjoyed AI2 when it was going on. I thought Clay had a compelling storyline throughout the show and it made for excellent TV. Who knows what would have happened if the little Clay/Simon dynamic was different. It made him the underdog although he was leading the competition the entire way. I dont' think I'd have it any other way.

I think when Clay got a compliment, and he got plenty, it really meant something. And I know it's heresy but some of the stuff he said for him to fix was actually good advice.

[claytonic]

But you know, if I'm a Trenyce fan, I'd think Ruben AND Clay got the pimping and special treatment.

I actually think I'm more influenced by the talk that came later as I thoroughly enjoyed AI2 when it was going on. I thought Clay had a compelling storyline throughout the show and it made for excellent TV. Who knows what would have happened if the little Clay/Simon dynamic was different. It made him the underdog although he was leading the competition the entire way. I dont' think I'd have it any other way.

Regarding your comment about Trenyce, I kinda agree... it think it must have been very hard for the others because it really was the Clay and Ruben Show, and the producers knew it was drawing the audiences.

Re Clay leading the show.... so is the quote below correct? It's from Wikipedia and I am never sure what to believe when I read it from Wikipedia.

From Wikipedia:

"In an interview prior to the start of the fifth season of American Idol, Executive Producer Nigel Lythgoe revealed for the first time that Aiken had led the fan voting every week from the Wild Card week to the finale, when the possibly-random voting result gave Studdard the win"

Is this true?

[muskifest]

I think when Clay got a compliment, and he got plenty, it really meant something. And I know it's heresy but some of the stuff he said for him to fix was actually good advice.

I agree, Couchie---and I also agree that the judges did Ruben a disservice by NOT offering suggestions (at least publicly) for improvement.

I liked both these guys DURING the competition, but even though I wasn't a fanatic (yet) about Clay, I remember thinking that the judges seemed to be disgustingly full of only-praise for Ruben, regardless of his performance. Most of the time he sounded very good, but it didn't really seem to matter since the judges' reactions were always the same. I heard differences in performance quality, pitch, vocal strength, etc.---but they never seemed to. (And watching Ruben made me uncomfortable because HE seemed so uncomfortable--physically, you know? The sweating, the inability to move because of his size, the awkward arm movements. He has a killer grin and seems to be a great guy, but I'd rather listent to a recording of him than watch a live version. AND I have to say that when I have listened to Ruben songs one after the other, I get bored quickly...)

Yet they spared nothing when picking apart anyone else. Clay, yes---but he wasn't the only one that got skewered. Trenyce really did get the short end of the stick, IMO. That woman can SANG. But she never seemed to get props, you know? Well, except, of course, when Paula would gush about how gorgeous she looked.

Josh seemed like a nice guy, but I always rolled my eyes or closed them, along with my ears, when he sang. He never belonged in the top whatever and I think most people thought so, too...but the whole 'Marine' thing at that particular time in our history moved him along every week. To his credit, he always seemed to understand that and even showed shock and dismay when it was Trenyce who got voted off instead of him for the final four. Whatever.

[jamar1700]

Josh seemed like a nice guy, but I always rolled my eyes or closed them, along with my ears, when he sang. He never belonged in the top whatever and I think most people thought so, too...

Uhhh.... I'd have to disagree there. I think Josh was very strong in the competition until the very end when IMO he lost his taste for it and stopped trying. FWIW lots of the young people I know liked him and were voting for him. Not because he was a marine but because they like country music. I thought Josh had some very strong weeks in the top 12. He picked good songs for his voice. A few more strong weeks and I think he would have surpassed KLO. The thing with Josh is he is VERY country and that always came through. I understand not liking country music, or his twang, but IMO Josh really has a nice voice for the genre.

He's done pretty well there.

[Couch Tomato]

He's done pretty well there.

Yes he has. And I definitely didnn't have him in the Carman group...that's why I really thought he could win. And I don't think they were pushing him to win but the storyline was just so good.... I personally thought with the times it would help push him to the top.

Anyway, I'm not so sure Trenyce was on anybody's mind the week she left..it was all about Ruben being in the bottom 2. And Trenyce was pretty much ignored by the media because well Ruben was in the bottom 2. She had bad timing with her kick out. The thing is, Josh probably deserved to go that week... but the next week he came back strong. Oh and his TLS was my favorite Josh song of the competition. It was so different from Clay and it worked on an entirely different level. So TLS was my favorite Josh song and my favorite Clay song.