#23: Lordy. He is one more hunkalicious dude!

[KAndre]

I occasionally waffle on providing feedback, because I tend to be brutally honest with how something strikes me - and not all artistes take that well - of course some wallow in it and make me a consultant. I like that. grins at Muski. "Phonetic" spelling or attempting to write in dialect has pissed me off since "Gone With The Wind" - to me, unless it adds in a substantial way to the story, it's just a way of saying, "Ha ha! Look here! They can't even speak King's English! How quaint/charming/any other faintly condescending term you want to use!" I feel about it the way merrieeee feels about Dick Van Dyke's "Cockney" accent in Mary Poppins. Though it's amusing to watch her grit her teeth when you mention it. If you do it, I won't even pretend to read it, because to me it says something about their attitude, wrong or right. It's like someone sticking bell peppers in macaroni and cheese - no, I won't even try it. I haven't eaten my oldest sister's mac 'n cheese twenty years. I can see the green flecks from here.

Some of my favorite skits totally mocked the fandom - me included. I cheerfully acknowledge I am totally mockable. Shut up, Solo! You too, PerusingOne! Oh, like I don't see Scarlett and KF, snickering in the corner! Though I admit, they actually mock me to my face. Clay is mockable too - but the fandom is way mockable. Couchie and her lotion/shampoo! The various ways people would try and pass as twenty-somethings to get into Total Request Live...the running battles with DJs....various board wars...that weird little Clay debit card...the fact I actually have my Clay Aiken Fan Club card in my wallet...

I don't think Kimmel picked up on our felonious Claymate.

Thank you kindly for the comments on my story-telling - though I admit I don't see it as "art". I like doing it in person better than writing it, because I think it's funny. And I know perfectly well that I am a terrible technical writer. Grammar, spelling, periods, white space all tend to be optional for me.

[cindilu2]

WE HAVE PROOF(s)

No, not of intelligent life in the universe, but of the Spam pins. Check it out! Couchie will be putting up an order form in the next day or two. Stay tuned!!!

[soulsista4clay]

How can I deleate a thread I started? I wanna deleate my skit cause i want to.

[cindilu2]

I think it takes amazing courage to put yourself out there - whether it's a skit, a montage, a graphic, a blog.. anything. I sincerely did not mean my comment this morning to offend anybody who has done so. I too wrote a story once upon a time, and I know how difficult hitting that 'submit reply' button was at times. As for feedback, I really do try to leave a comment if I read something - because I also remember the feeling of watching the 'views' go up and up without comment. Makes a gal insecure! In the end though, I decided that I was writing it for my own pleasure and satisfaction, and that was enough. I feel that way now about my graphics - but I do appreciate a comment. I'm human!!

For me, my perception of 'funny' when it comes to Clay has changed over the past couple years. I admit it. I allow my feelings (perceived or otherwise) about the author (or artist) to come into play. Like it or not, we don't post in a vacuum, and when somebody has been consistently bitter and sarcastic about Clay in other circumstances, and then a bitter and sarcastic (and sometimes, dumb) Clay appears in a skit? Well, I'm sorry - it's impossible for me to see the 'funny'. Intellectually, sure. Emotionally. Nope.

And what exactly is the difference between 'skits' and 'fan-fiction'? The amount of sex involved?

[KAndre]

thinks about it...

Yes.

[JennaZ]

I do think it takes some courage to create something and put it out for the world to judge. And the more of yourself you put into it, the tougher it can be to hear criticism.

In an ideal world, all artists could completely satisfy their own creative impulses and make a decent living at it, at the same time. However, it seems that very few can actually do that. Art that fulfills the artist may not necessarily have enough broad appeal to be commercial. For many, if they only did what they wanted, they'd starve. However, there are those who take the commercial jobs and, within job parameters, are able to infuse it with enough of their creativity and soul to please themselves as well as their employers. I have a cousin who graduated from the Art Institute of Chicago. He now works on videos and commercials. Is it high art? Probably not. But he makes a living and enjoys what he does.

To some extent, I think that happens with many musical acts as well. A cover album may have been RCA's choice, but I do believe that Clay brought a lot of himself into the project, enough for him to be happy with it. (And I do believe he liked the product, more than many of his fans.)

I'd bet that most working artists, of any type, have to find that balance between pleasing themselves and pleasing those who make it possible to pay their bills. It's not about "selling out." It's about finding a compromise that allows you to express yourself creatively, and still survive.

But honestly -- I think most of the rest of the world probably has no CLUE about this. And for those that have seen it -- I'm sure that some will find it funny; some will find some way to twist it into hater material; and some will shrug it off. And, IMO...I just can't care about that anymore. There's always going to be something with these kinds of things, and while I don't want things made bigger by some "well meaning" fans, unfortunately, it just happens

Very true, ldyjocelyn. If I hadn't been on the Clay boards, I never would have even heard of this. You have to look very hard, and recognize that particular shirt, to even know that it's him on it. I am often amazed at how many fans fail to realize that Clay is not the center of the known universe. Britney's trip to the hospital and Lindsay's fall of the wagon are far juicier news to the entertainment media.

I happen to think it's funny that the woman is wearing the t-shirt. If Kimmel decides to comment, no big deal. I don't think it will hurt Clay in the least.

[djs111]

cindilu2 said:

And what exactly is the difference between 'skits' and 'fan-fiction'? The amount of sex involved?

I think, for me, it is not so much the sex part as much as it is squicky to me to read sexual stuff about Clay and another real person that is in his circle. I don't complain about it, I just don't read it, that's all.

For me, my perception of 'funny' when it comes to Clay has changed over the past couple years. I admit it. I allow my feelings (perceived or otherwise) about the author (or artist) to come into play. Like it or not, we don't post in a vacuum, and when somebody has been consistently bitter and sarcastic about Clay in other circumstances, and then a bitter and sarcastic (and sometimes, dumb) Clay appears in a skit? Well, I'm sorry - it's impossible for me to see the 'funny'. Intellectually, sure. Emotionally. Nope.

yep. From personal experience. My skits used to be more about fans. As things got darker and as things started pissing me off, my skits got so pointy and barbed that I felt I could not share them.

[annabear]

WE HAVE PROOF(s)

No, not of intelligent life in the universe, but of the Spam pins. Check it out! Couchie will be putting up an order form in the next day or two. Stay tuned!!!

They look Grrreat!

{{{{luckiest1 & sons}}}}

[soulsista4clay]

I wanna deleate it cause i have real life and stuff and will not be able to update it. Man i so wish I still had that job.

[luckiest1]

I think the first part of your paragraph is true, that there are fans who are itching for this story to travel further than it seems to have. But honestly -- I think most of the rest of the world probably has no CLUE about this. And for those that have seen it -- I'm sure that some will find it funny; some will find some way to twist it into hater material; and some will shrug it off. And, IMO...I just can't care about that anymore. There's always going to be something with these kinds of things, and while I don't want things made bigger by some "well meaning" fans, unfortunately, it just happens. luckiest1, maybe I'm reading more into this than you originally meant, but it's how I feel.

All I meant was that it's funny to us, or to someone else who perhaps follows Clay enough to realize that that was a CA t-shirt, and knows how expensive our little obsession hobby can be. But I always get my back up when fans try to inject themselves into things, in order to get them noticed on a wider scale. Because I think it is hard for "us" to see something from the standpoint of someone who doesn't follow Clay, and think he is the greatest thing since sliced bread (as my grandma used to say). I say just leave well enough alone. It was good for a laugh. End of story.

Skits, photoshops, blogs, fanfic, montages......I like most of them, love some of them, and avoid others like the plague. I see nothing wrong with scrolling, it's my perogative to read things I like and skip things I don't. I wouldn't leave a negative comment on a story or blog that I didn't appreciate, but I quite often will leave a comment on something that tickles my fancy or that makes me schmoopie.

Wheeeeee! I officially booked 4 days off in March for my Spamalot trip this morning. We have some mandatory training sessions coming up, and they were originally scheduled for the week of Jan 14th. Now they've been pushed back to the end of February. I didn't want to find out that they'd been pushed even further back into March, and not be able to book my holidays, so I took matters into my own hands this morning. EEEEE, I can't wait!

[laughn]

And what exactly is the difference between 'skits' and 'fan-fiction'? The amount of sex involved?

Joke noted...lol...but actually skits are, for the most part, or at least the ones on the boards, a form of humor. Fanfic is not exclusively written for humor...or at least not meant to be. There are actually some pretty talented writers out there playing about on the boards. Some fanfic is just plain good reading, whether the leading character is Clay or not. Thing is...none of the characters are really Clay, just the writer's perception. Same as with the skits. So skit or a fanfic, it really says nothing about Clay and all about the writer.

btw, I really like that top pin...the Python-esque one.

[bottlecap]

WE HAVE PROOF(s)

No, not of intelligent life in the universe, but of the Spam pins. Check it out! Couchie will be putting up an order form in the next day or two. Stay tuned!!!

They're, dare I say, SPAMTASTIC!

[wandacleo]

I think I'm sharing your lousy weather, Couchie. I live 2 blocks from a fire station and the sirens have been going off almost constantly since 3 AM. I know this because Rosie, my dog, howls like a werewolf in heat every time there's a siren. Oh, oh, lights are flicking again. Better type fast.

Skits and fan fics: I just can't read them. They seem intrusive and kind of creep me out, but since I have NO problem at all studying staring at, drooling over admiring looking at Clay's crotch, I don't think I have any moral high ground here.

Just not my thing.

[ldyjocelyn]

Thing is...none of the characters are really Clay, just the writer's perception. Same as with the skits. So skit or a fanfic, it really says nothing about Clay and all about the writer.

I think I'd even take it one step further, and say it's also all about the READER. There has been some skits and fanfiction that I simply loved, because it fit MY perception of Clay. The author and reader were in sync regarding the way we could see "character" Clay being. Doesn't mean we're right, IMO, it just means that's the way I tend to see Clay in my mind. I think most of us has a picture of Clay in our mind, simply by being fans of his. One of the things I've loved about being in the fandom over the past few years has been the times when he's blown a perception I've had of him (or other fans have had of him) totally out of the water. Another one of those "growth" periods for me, and I think that's healthy.

btw, I really like that top pin...the Python-esque one.

I love both of them, but I agree that the Python-esque one is especially brilliant. Can't wait to order.

[muskifest]

So before I go off to do my 'home-work'---which unfortunately consists of getting soaking wet while snaking our patio drain with a 50-ft metal snake in order to unglog the damned thing so that the little pond that has accumulated with this downpour stops running into the garage and threatens to soak every freaking thing piled in there! ...crap! I wish I had a raincoat now! Good thing I don't have to worry about my hair at least. It's permed and shitty looking anyway so the rain can't hurt it. But I'm putting on some old jeans, some old sneakers and a windbreaker with a flimsy hood and

I'm GOING OUT THERE!

But before I do....

I KNOW what it is to 'put yourself out there' with a creative effort. And like KAndre said, I do welcome people's feedback and not just the wonderful things. Contrary to popular belief, I do NOT actually know it all so it's good to get info from others. heh. I love to know that characters I've created or storylines that I've twisted around have people feeling or thinking. Some of the best compliments have been things like, "Damn it, Muski! I cannot STAND Olivia and she won't leave my brain! I can't believe she'd do what she did in Ch. __. Why the hell did you let Clay just stand there and take it?" etc. That's so flattering because it tells me I was effective in painting a real person that evoked real emotions. Never mind that she hates the character. That to me is NOT a criticism of my creative 'talent'; it is a reflection of the reader's own character, personality. I LOVE that! AND I love to hear from readers when they have a 'minority' view---if someone actually thinks Olivia is a brave woman, I want to hear it.

I agree that Clay is a creative person. He likes to brand whatever he does---make it his own,e tc. And I think he also does that with a "whatever" attitude. As in "I like it THIS way, but I know not everybody will but whatever..." And I like THAT about him, too.

Let's see....

Yeah, I know. I'm stalling....The wind is whistling and the fat oranges on the neigbor's tree are threatening to get blown off their limbs and onto my head if I go out there and try to clear that freaking drain...maybe I'll just pick them off first, huh?

la-de-dah-de-dah.....let's see...I really should put in a load of dirty clothes to wash first.....

[cindilu2]

And what exactly is the difference between 'skits' and 'fan-fiction'? The amount of sex involved?

Joke noted...lol...but actually skits are, for the most part, or at least the ones on the boards, a form of humor. Fanfic is not exclusively written for humor...or at least not meant to be. There are actually some pretty talented writers out there playing about on the boards. Some fanfic is just plain good reading, whether the leading character is Clay or not. Thing is...none of the characters are really Clay, just the writer's perception. Same as with the skits. So skit or a fanfic, it really says nothing about Clay and all about the writer.

btw, I really like that top pin...the Python-esque one.

Thank you! both for the pin and the response. I hope it's clear that I am a fan of fan-fic AND of the comedy sketches, and I do appreciate the enormous amount of talent to be found within this fandom. I guess I always just got kind of touchy at the distinction between skits and fan-fic, when the latter is regarded with a fair amount of derision and the former, 'brilliant'. I guess like 'famewhore', it's all a matter of perception.

They're, dare I say, SPAMTASTIC!

Did you really say that? BWAH!! yes you did. Thanks!

[Couch Tomato]

Thank you kindly for the comments on my story-telling - though I admit I don't see it as "art". I like doing it in person better than writing it, because I think it's funny. And I know perfectly well that I am a terrible technical writer. Grammar, spelling, periods, white space all tend to be optional for me.

I don't agree with this. You paint a very vivid picture and I kinda follow along hearing you tell it to me. I'm not a grammar queen myself.... when I was in school or working at the paper I figured that's what editors are for.

How can I deleate a thread I started? I wanna deleate my skit cause i want to.

You can't delete a thread you started but me or one of the admins will take a look. Oh I see you are too busy too work on it ...but that's ok..we can just archive it and when you find time you can update.

I'm the master of not completing things..just ask Lucky and Ansa.

For me, my perception of 'funny' when it comes to Clay has changed over the past couple years. I admit it. I allow my feelings (perceived or otherwise) about the author (or artist) to come into play. Like it or not, we don't post in a vacuum, and when somebody has been consistently bitter and sarcastic about Clay in other circumstances, and then a bitter and sarcastic (and sometimes, dumb) Clay appears in a skit? Well, I'm sorry - it's impossible for me to see the 'funny'. Intellectually, sure. Emotionally. Nope.

heee this is where that short term memory thing comes in that I like to talk about.

But I think the fandom as a whole is less tolerant of stuff for many reasons. For some of the reasons I think a healing can happen over time but unfortunately we'll be facing liars, and scammers, and other assorted scumbag forever so I think a sensitivity may always exist.

To some extent, I think that happens with many musical acts as well. A cover album may have been RCA's choice, but I do believe that Clay brought a lot of himself into the project, enough for him to be happy with it. (And I do believe he liked the product, more than many of his fans.)

I'd bet that most working artists, of any type, have to find that balance between pleasing themselves and pleasing those who make it possible to pay their bills. It's not about "selling out." It's about finding a compromise that allows you to express yourself creatively, and still survive.

good points Jenna

As for fan fiction, I don't mind real people fan fic - it's still all fiction to me. Love the Clangela, and the Clyra. Unfortunately there's two little of both of those matches.

yep. From personal experience. My skits used to be more about fans. As things got darker and as things started pissing me off, my skits got so pointy and barbed that I felt I could not share them.

well then it's good that you realize that I think. During the nadir of 2006 I didn't post or read much elsewhere andaside from the fact that real life was depressing enough because of my mom's practically moving into the emergency room, but I also knew myself and I didn't spend all those years honing those passive agressive skills at TWoP for nothing. I was self aware enough to realize that so it was truly best for everyone

I love how great conversations just spring up like this.

[wandacleo]

Soulsista I hope you're not taking your skit away because I'm blathering on about my tastes because, what do I know? As an act of solidarity with you creative people out there, I'm submitting my OWN skit.

And one and two and KICK and KICK and turn and Turn and ..... STOP STOP

Someone help Clay up.

From the top ...and one and two and KICK....

[cindilu2]

Still grinning over boyfriend's blog yesterday. Do you think this is one of those 'moments' for him. When he looks around and goes 'holy shhhhhhhhhit, look at meeeeeeeee!!!' ? I keep picturing him signing the Rolling Stone's and hearing him say 'how crazy is this?'

Gawd, I love him.

[Couch Tomato]

Soulsistah I hope you're not taking your skit away because I'm blathering on about my tastes because, what do I know? As an act of solidarity with you creative people out there, I'm submitting my OWN skit.

And one and two and KICK and KICK and turn and Turn and ..... STOP STOP

Someone help Clay up.

From the top, and one and two and KICK....

that, my dear, was bloody awful. heee

SoulSistah said she didn't have time to work on it... I definitely resemble that remark.

[wandacleo]

Bloody is right.

[KAndre]

Soulsistah I hope you're not taking your skit away because I'm blathering on about my tastes because, what do I know? As an act of solidarity with you creative people out there, I'm submitting my OWN skit.

And one and two and KICK and KICK and turn and Turn and ..... STOP STOP

Someone help Clay up.

From the top, and one and two and KICK....

that, my dear, was bloody awful. heee

SoulSistah said she didn't have time to work on it... I definitely resemble that remark.

Bloody awful, my butt! It was BRILLIANT, I tell you! BRILLIANT!

I told y'all - I like the funny.

[Couch Tomato]

KAndre... actually you're right..I didn't read it closely enough Poor Clay. hee.

[cindilu2]

Soulsista I hope you're not taking your skit away because I'm blathering on about my tastes because, what do I know? As an act of solidarity with you creative people out there, I'm submitting my OWN skit.

And one and two and KICK and KICK and turn and Turn and ..... STOP STOP

Someone help Clay up.

From the top ...and one and two and KICK....

*snort*

[soulsista4clay]

I am not taking away my skit cause of the disscusion, It's just that i did not have time to update it. heck if some of ya'll did not bring it up i would have forgotten it. I just also want be a movie maker, and if anyone can come up with the name of a pop star to replace clay. It would be nice.

And when some fans/people do become authurs, they usally take thier fanfic of the internet, for reasons that i do not know.