#23: Lordy. He is one more hunkalicious dude!

[liney23]

liney? You still around? I hinted that I would have a special present for you guys for Christmas Day...and I do!

ALL IS SWELL (at Clayversity)

Remember my post yesterday where I gave my silly scenario about why Clay was so danged happy there at the end of All Is Well? I decided to build a little story around it and I want to offer it to you for your reading jollies. And those of you who don't like the real down-n-dirty smut? Fear not...although this short story suggests a lot, it doesn't require any major SMUT warnings at all...It's silly more than sexy, I think.

In any case...hope you enjoy!

muski... I enjoyed!!! :F_05BL17blowkiss: I left my comments in that thread. I read it twice as a matter of fact and loved it twicely! HAWT!!!

Something has been bugging me..something I read on a non clay fan board by a fan. I understand they don't mean anything by it but I just shocked it rolls off the tongue so easily that ATDW is a commercial failure along with a variety of excuses FOR him. I think it's sad that people just want to throw it under the bus and forget it exists. :F_05BL17blowkiss: ATDW.

ETA: OK maybe that's not fair. They don't want to throw it under the bus...but maybe it feels that way because of the he did amazing things under the parameters set forth BUT and then 2 paragraphs of buts. I'm sorry but after reading all that I forgot you're supposed to like it. I know I just remembered the buts.

couchie... I have read that exact same thing and wondered WTH???? It went Gold, people. Sure, if you compare almost triple platinum to gold, that is a downswing, but many artists would love gold.

About the fan criticism... I have a theory. I think the mindset of AI zonked many people. They got used to Slimon picking apart almost every performance and just figured Clay would feel more at home in his career if they continued that pattern for him. Think how loving they are being by constantly finding fault with everything he does. And, by copying that critical style, they are being just as cool as Slimon! Isn't that thrilling for them?

By the way, my home computer is getting worse. I could not post this weekend, so I'm going to have to take it to the pc hospital and see what is wrong. I downloaded a new virus software and that didn't fix it. I have 3.5 GB of free space, so I don't think that's it either. So, I may only be around during working hours, dang it! I can read and keep up, just not post/reply.

ETA: Perma... WORD to your whole post! And that picture just joined the cast for my 2008 calendar I am putting together... gorgeous!

jj... I think just going to see Clay once in everything still makes you a fan... I think! LOL

Now, I am an craz...enthusiastic fan and go to multiples every chance I get. I just get SUCH a rush being in his presence, plain and simple!

[Marilyon98]

So there are no tongue lovers here?

Uh, no. Not me. The extensive collection of tongue shots on my hard drive are the results of malicious hacking. I swear. No, really. I didn't painstakenly collect them one by one or anything like that. Seriously, THEY.ARE.NOT.MINE. I think they belong to Fake Baby Mama. Truly...

Y'all believe me, right?

Wichita, you say?

ETA: muskifest => :lies:

Lets just say Winter wonderlaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand is mesmerizing

[jumpingjacks]

nothing to see here....

[jmh123]

I'm really feeling like a heathen about not seeing Clay more than once, movie or theater,....I hope my name isn't added to the bad fan list. :clay:

I don't think anyone is trying to convey that AT ALL. You asked why other people would go to more than one show, and some folks tried to explain to you why they would. That is all. Lord knows I certainly wasn't suggesting that there was anything wrong with your only wanting to see a show once. I don't see a thing in this world wrong with going to only one show, but I also don't see anything wrong with going to more than one.

[jumpingjacks]

I believe the word I used was consecutive shows.

I don't think there's anything wrong with going to multiple shows, as I think I said about 10 times...I'm just a bit surprised at going to consecutive shows.

I truly didn't intend this to be a thing to argue about....it's truly not worth it to me. I don't think anyone has to justify anything to me nor I to them.

If you want to go to every show for the first week or the first month or the first 5 months...have at it. I still won't understand it but it's your money, your time and your decision.

Not understanding it isn't the same as saying you shouldn't do it or that my way is better than yours.

[luckiest1]

luckiest1 what a great Christmas gift! Did you know it was happening or was it a surprise?

Complete surprise! That's what was so neat about it. It was funny, I had said a day or two before we left that one of these days, I wanted to paint the room blue. Sent them all into a tizzy, apparently, wondering if they should go buy a different paint than the brown they'd already purchased. But I'm easy....blue, brown....anything but the old green was a welcome change.

I didn't feel like there was anything in the show that a non-MP person wouldn't get...I haven't seen a lot of Monty Python stuff and I still laughed myself sick.

I think that if a non MP fan is going to see the show once and only once, it would be beneficial to watch the Holy Grail movie before hand, other wise it might just be too much to take in all at once, trying to figure out the story line and watch Clay at the same time. Just MHO, as both a Monty Python fan and a Clay lover.

If I were a huge Monty Python fan (which I'm not) I can see going to the show more than once, but from what I've heard, the part of Sir Robin isn't a big enough role to induce me to see it multiple times, just because it's Clay.

You know, I've read this a few times, but really, there isn't a bigger part in the show, other than I guess the King or the Lady of the Lake. Clay will be in probably 75% of the scenes (an estimate, to be sure, but he is usually on stage)....and if the part is true to form, he will not only play Sir Robin, but also a guard, the guy pulling the cart in the "bring out your dead" scene, and Brother Maynard. I have posted some more detailed descriptions of the scenes that we can expect to see him in in the Spamalot thread.

Right now, I have tickets to one showing of Spamalot, in March. I would dearly love to be able to attend a second show, but am not sure yet if it is going to be possible.

cindilu2, Permaswooned & JennaZ.......just a big, fat WORD to your posts. And wandacleo - :F_05BL17blowkiss: .

[Couch Tomato]

People celebrate clay in their own way. I don't want anyone to feel around here they can't post what they want without being labeled a bad fan. Jumping Jacks, I think you are labeling yourself here and nobody has called you out, just answered your question. And it's not one you should feel bad about asking. Heee I tend to think mnost of us has been asked that once or twice. It's ok to see Clay once, or not at all, or to to like a show or not at all. Doesn't make you a good fan or a bad fan as everybody has different taste. I would never fly across the country to see Clay sing one song. But when I do fly to see Clay I stack in as much of Clay as I can get. I'll gladly admit to being loopy over the boy but it makes me happy. Nothing wrong with that..nor is it the "correct" way to be. For me, it just is.

Consecutive shows...that's an easy explanation. It probably has to do with time. Clay is in one place. People may be going for a weekend and that's their only time to see him so they'll see him twice. I'm going for a week and who knows..I may see him one night and then go to a matinee the next day. I don't have any tickets yet. But there will be no I'll see him early in the run and late in the run for me. I'm goign once. In a way, In a show like CITH where the "script" is pretty much the same every night I saw him four straight nights. Only the last show stands out as different because of the entended intros and the change up of MGUCL yet I wouldn't give up a single one.

[playbiller]

I truly didn't intend this to be a thing to argue about....it's truly not worth it to me. I don't think anyone has to justify anything to me nor I to them.

I din't think we were arguing, I thought we were discussing, You gave us a topic and off we went.

I understand why people flying across the country go to consectutive show, but as I said, I am not sure how many I will attend, just more than 2.

I do go to consectutive concerts because they are here and then they are not. Catch them while you can sort of thing.

I try and think why I do go to so many shows, and I think it is more than just the vox and the humor and the gahness. I think there is a welcomeness, a familiness to the shows. When I go to a show, I feel welcome, like I belong there. There are some shows were I feel no one belongs (any performance of the opera "Billy Budd" - worst opera ever!). Maybe I should say deserves the punishment of attending.

[cindilu2]

JJ, I'm not reading anybody criticizing you for 'only' seeing something once. I see people explaining why they like to is all.

I'm one of those also. In fact, I've been known to sit in a movie theatre twice in a row and watch a movie when I really enjoyed it and didn't feel like I took it all in the first time. I may never get back to NYC again, so yeah, I'm going to see Spam twice while I'm there.

Permaswooned - word to your whole post.

I freely admit I will never understand why people want to point out Clay's 'misses'. I have come to believe that there are some folks who just like to hear their own voice. Being a 'fangirl' has come to be an insult in this fandom, and frankly that boggles my mind. They can etch that on my tombstone if they like. Here lies cindilu2. She thought Clay Aiken was perfect. *shrug*

What really bugs my ass though are the same posts by the same people with the same complaints after each and every new endeavour (as Permaswooned mentioned). I wouldn't care if there just weren't so many sheep in the board-doms who take these people's opinions as fact, and allow it to structure their own.

If you take the Conan and Scumbag-style slams out of the equation, I've yet to read a critique about him that is harsher than many of the things I read right here on these fan-boards.

[jumpingjacks]

Ok.

I don't have the financial means to follow Clay like some can. You are all very lucky to be able to do that. I'm still not sure I would if I had the money and the time....it is what it is.

I am so excited to be able to go to NYC at all...it isn't something that would ever work out if it hadn't been for winter break....so I guess I will cherish my time and enjoy my shows and know that I got to do something not everyone will get to do.

If I offended anyone with anything I said, my apologies...that was not my intent.

I'm off to do some real life things.

Peace.

[Gibby]

So there are no tongue lovers here?

Uh, no. Not me. The extensive collection of tongue shots on my hard drive are the results of malicious hacking. I swear. No, really. I didn't painstakenly collect them one by one or anything like that. Seriously, THEY.ARE.NOT.MINE. I think they belong to Fake Baby Mama. Truly...

Y'all believe me, right?

Wichita, you say?

ETA: muskifest => :lies:

Lets just say Winter wonderlaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand is mesmerizing

Heeeee - regarding my Wichita Jazzy Medley partial clip - it was the first concert of CITH, so fans had not yet heard the medley arrangements. I didn't know he was going to sing 'Winter Wonderlaaaaaaaaaaand' at that moment, but somehow decided that it would be good to stay zoomed in at that moment. Wow, am I glad I did! Tongue, indeed!

Anyway, Marilyon, I'm glad you like it! And bottle, too, even if you don't admit it.

[laljeterfan]

Man, it's HARD to be at work all day, illegally following along with the conversations here on my work computer, and not being able to chime in, when I have seen so many things I wanted to respond to. (and that is unusual for me, as you can see by my post count.) So, since I just got home and logged on and it is one of the first things I read, may I also PERMASWOONED's post!

It's impossible to cut it up into segments, cuz it all rings so true to me!

I've been on the boards since the end of AI2, and have participated (sparingly) on most of the BIGGER boards, and many of the smaller ones. Count me as one with the rose-colored glasses, cause I really don't feel any urge to publically criticize Clay for anything he says, does, sings, yada yada yada. At this time, I really only read religiously on one board other than this one, and I was bummed to see that the spirit of love and good will so evident in all of the Christmas postings yesterday pretty much went south after midnight. All it seems to take is one person weighing in with their grievances, and it opens the floodgates for everyone else to pile on and add to the laundry list of offenses. It got so bad that I'm seriously considering paring my board reading down even more- to just THIS board.

Yes, I certainly understand preferences and opinions, and I have mine just like anyone else. I just don't feel the need, when one of Clay's performances is less than perfect, to point it out, and trumpet my disappointment to the world, and to then offer my less-than-professional opinion on what he's doing wrong and what he needs to change. I am also not a big fan of the constant criticisms of Clay's physical appearance- especially when it pertains to the weight issue. As a "person of size"- I grew up being constantly bombarded by the idea that if you are "fat", you are somehow less valuable as a person- less attractive, less interesting, just....less. It bothers me to hear that mindset applied to Clay, because to me, he is beautiful- from the inside out. Extra weight, puffy face, less than perfect hair- so what??? He's still beautiful!

As for seeing Clay more than once in Spamalot- HELL, YES!!!! We'll be seeing him 3 times in early March. I'd see him every night if I could- that's how much I enjoy seeing him. But then, I can watch the same movie 50 times, and still laugh and cry at all the same parts each time. Guess I'm very predictible!

[luckiest1]

Interrupting the conversation for a PSA - holy Clackapalooza! I just went over to check if any new CITH clack had been uploaded today, and I have queued up about 100 new files - and that's just since yesterday!!!!

Carry on.

[bottlecap]

And bottle, too, even if you don't admit it.

It undulates and vibrates in the most compelling sort of way... :mockery-046:

Or it least that's what I might have noticed when I briefly glanced at the ending of the video. Just to be polite and all. It's not like I really, really, really need a slo-mo gif of it or anything...

[aikim]

Hi All,

Thought this day would never end!

Interesting conversations...agree with most everything that has been said.

This tour was really interesting for me since the only show I was going to was the last one and I have to say it was difficult reading the not so wonderful fan reviews for three weeks before I even saw it...it did start to get me down...and I know I could have just not read the boards, but that is not really an option, so I scrolled a lot and walked away when it got to be too much.

My rule of thumb has always been...If I wouldn't say it to his face, I won't say it on the boards, especially not on the OFC.

Kim

[djs111]

I feel like people are stunned to think that someone on a Clay Aiken board would choose to go to ONE show. I'm feeling like people can't believe that someone would call themselves a fan and not go to a movie multiple times.

Oh, I didn't get that impression, that people are stunned, just that some people go to multiples of anything they really like. And they are explaining why they do so, they don't sound nutty!

I didn't see anything about being less of a Clay fan, just that no one particularly had the same outlook.

Hell, I could not afford the time or money to see Clay this time around, and I assume I am still a Good Fan. But I was thrilled to see him in Tampa, then Palm Beach, then Orlando last summer!

For a Broadway-type show, there is so much going on that I feel two or three viewings - if it is feasible - are really needed if I loved something so much I want to see it all. Plus who knows when any one of us will get to go again!

Shoot, when Mash the movie opened, we went three times in two days just to catch all the comments.

I will watch Gladiator, The Wedding Planner, and Legally Blonde anytime I am flipping through and catch them - not great movies by a long shot, but for some reason I just like them. I have seen Phantom and Cats a few times, it is just an enjoyable way to spend an evening.

On the other hand, I find it strange that people watch TV every single night and plan their evenings around it, I am kinda alone there, I think.

And then there are the puffy/fat comments.

Heeee....baby steps....there was a time when people would decide he was not eating right, blame that on his mother, and then compile a list of dietary instructions AND a list of reasons why he was delusional about loving his mom, and actually seriously try and get it to him. Becoss once he realised that they knew what he should eat, how he should feel about, say, religion and his own family, and how and when he should practice (conveniently ignoring that he may have had a cold or something) he would be forever grateful and they would get ACCESS.

Over the weekend I saw a CNN blurb that said "Queen to wish Christmas greetings on Youtube" - and the first thing I thought was Cool! Freddy lives! And then the sensible me said no, nitwit, that means Elizabeth. Sheesh.

[Couch Tomato]

Permaswooned..I loved your post and I totally agree. I think many of the so called authoritarians would be suprirsed to find out how many people scroll right past their posts, probably more than hang on to their every word.

It's tough being in this fandom sometimes JJ cuz Clay IS always busy and doing things..and things that cost money. I had tickets for Tyra but couldn't afford one more trip. I've traveled quite a bit to see Clay. I've also missed some things because I just couldn't swing it, (2006 joyful noise). ANd other times I've gone and done it on the cheap. I had a great time on this last trip yet I couldn't afford to buy the scarf and thank god we piled into a room to share expenses. I'm sure some of my roomies may have wanted more space and room. For me, it was a blessing in many ways. That's just life on this side of the tracks. That's why I love the boards and Clack because I get so much out of other's experiences. I'm thrilled when my friends can go and report back. I'm going to see Spamalot in April because I need time to save up for it since I try not to use credit cards after the overkill of 2004 LOL.

As for boards, I'm middle of the road. I'm all about how you say things. I believe the boards are for the fans but I always want to remember who the object of our affection is supposed to be. And I've seen boards where thought is controlled tightly and it is not in any way fun IMO. At least not for me. I like smart funny people who are different from me. And I'm more than willing to listen to any point of view as long as given respectfully. If I have to check the top of the page to remember if I'm at a fan board or at TWoP...then we have a problem. And when I find myself posting in the passive agressive style of TWoP on a fan board, there's a problem.

Off topic.... as always YAY..I benefit from what other people get. My bro in law gets brand new super duper TV so I'll replace one of my older TVs with a less older, much larger TV. heee ...works for me.

ETA: I really hate the good fan/bad fan labels. Luckiest1 came over with her 100 new downloads PSA... I LOL... I doubt very seriously anyone would call me a bad fan because I've seen 3 Gibby videos from opening night. We all just celebrate Clay differently. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that..espeically when family, finances, work and ohter obligations also factor into what we each do.

[jumpingjacks]

Couchie, I've missed more things than I've seen of Clay...and I've also gone places that I had no business going just because I thought it was the thing to do. Buffalo JBT, for example. It was great fun and I loved the concert but the idea of flying somewhere for no more than a couple of days really makes no sense to me now.

I don't travel with people....I tried that twice and both times were complete nightmares....complete. I am traveling with my friend from Texas but I've spent time at her house with her hubby and I know she and I are kindred spirits. I stayed with another friend in Cary last summer. It was the first time meeting her and we had a great time but, quite honestly, the cost was not something I should have incurred.

So, if I go some place I usually go by myself. That is what it is, too. I have not invested time into many people on the boards mainly because no one lives around me. Texas is the closest....well...except for the two crazies from Lincoln and I'm not going anywhere with either of them.

Dividing the cost makes it workable....paying full price sucks.

[Claygasm]

That's why I think Clay will fit like a glove

jj, I've always assumed this to be true as well....

cindilu, ANOTHER pair of rose-colored glasses? I'll be danged! I hadn't noticed that your old ones were scratched! ...just teasing you...variety is the spice of life, fo' sho'....I'll continue with my own approach to seeing or hearing Clay and you'll continue with yours and Bob's your uncle!

I lurve me some Clay Aiken. I lurve me some Clay Aiken voice---IMO, there's really no other like it today. And like Couchie explained so well about some people's mindset when watching Clay, I DO sometimes have an unrealistic expectation of perfection in terms of the tone and pitch of that VOX. I mean, DAYUM! It's so OFTEN just plain perfect (to my ears) that I can't help but register those times when he shows his human side and misses this or that. I NOTICE, mind you, but I don't criticize him for it. Can't help but notice---but I DO have control over what I do with the information, you know?

So I can say that while watching and listening to the skating special I was shocked at how very puffy he seemed, especially since during the CITH those marvelous cheekbones (waves to merrieee!) and angular facial structure were front and center again (yes, I'm aware of other things that became front and center, too...heh). I'd simply forgotten how recently that change had occurred! I can even go further and say that he looks so much healthier and handsomer now than he did then, and that's my opinion.

I can also say that after hearing him nail those Christmas songs LIVE! night after night during CITH, I noticed a number of times in the skating show where he didn't. But I also think that the 'normal' people who didn't get to a CITH show or hadn't watched mucho CLACK clips of mucho shows wouldn't notice those times. They'd hear an amazing voice singing beautiful songs while some pretty impressive skating was going on. And that's a good thing.

Spamalot? Right now I've got tickets for me and hubby for one show in March. A certain friend is nudging me to hang around NYC a little longer and go to another show with her and I will in a heartbeat if the $$$$ is available. I'll go to enjoy the show and laugh and send positive energy to Clay in this newest feather he's collecting for his cap. Don't need to see any 'clack'---of Clay or the show beforehand. I've never seen any of any other theater show beforehand---why start now? I was never too familiar with Monty Python except for casually (but I ADORE Fawlty Towers and the Ministry of Silly Walks! :lmaosmiley-1: ), but I'm sure I'll have fun.

Basically, I calls 'em as I sees 'em---whether it's Clay or any other artist who goes on stage to entertain. If I notice that Clay hit some clunkers or seemed to miss some dance steps or flubbed some lines, well....that means I noticed! Doesn't mean I intend to vilify him for those 'less-than-perfect' things. Also doesn't mean that I'm going to pretend they didn't happen just because it's Clay.

Will that 'ruin' the show for me? Will I tell others that he was yucky and embarrassing? Will I decide that he obviously has ruined his career? Will I recommend that people save their money and NOT go to see him?

HELL, NO!

So I'm in agreement with those of you who hope people don't go spewing nastiness about Clay or the show or start creating all kinds of consipiracy theories if Clay's Broadway premiere is less than perfect. I certainly won't be one of them. But I'll most likely share my honest opinion of what I see and hear, and that might include things like "Goofball tripped over his big ole' feet in the dance number! CMSU!"

Word, my friend!

I guess it comes as no surprise to anyone here that I tend to express my honest opinions.

And I prefer my glasses clear so I can see things as they really are - warts and all.

Sometimes it seems that some equate being honest - if that honesty may involve something slightly critical of Clay - with bashing or always being negative. I have certainly been accused of that when being honest with my opinion. Someone else may see the same thing and come away with a completely different honest opinion.

And that's ok.

The only people I have issue with are those who weren't at a concert, taping, play etc. but either listened to the cellcert or read recaps and then pronounce their opinion as fact and that those who were there are wrong. And those people have been known to make those pronouncements both negatively and positively.

Multiples and consecutives? You bet. I flew to California this summer and saw all four shows. I saw the last 3 in a row in Florida. I drove all the way to Albany for the CITH and also went to Poughkeepsie. If I can afford it and if I have the time I will see as many as I can. With Spamalot, I will be there for his opening night and will see it at least twice more, but not consecutively. I am lucky that for me NY is just a train ride away so I can do a weekend matinee and not even have to worry about staying the night.

But I have to say, pre-Clay, I would NEVER imagine doing such a thing! I had NEVER seen the same concert more than once. I never pay to see a movie more than once, but I do get the DVDs of some favorites. So I totally get someone not understanding someone wanting to do multiples.

In so many ways, Clay has made me throw my sanity to the wind.

I cannot wait for Spamalot. I think it so fits his sense of humor. I think he will be great, although I suspect his opening night may be rough around the edges. If he is reviewed, I think most regular theater critics will give him a fair shot. But in the end, reviews are VERY subjective, so I would expect a mixed bag of reviews. Or not. But as long as they give him a fair shot, then I am ok with whatever they say, as long as they review his performance, and not whatever they may think of him personally.

Now, a belated :00003653: to Jamar!

And huge YAY!!!! for couchie's sweet mom!

I hate having to work today and I hate that I am still here!

[laughn]

Hummm, I guess, after some deliberation, I figured I'd jump in with my opinion and be done with it.

I figure we're all allowed our thoughts, and depending what day it it, I'm sure what irked me yesterday might not even show up on my radar today. I figure that's how we humans are. I would hope that the people I post with daily would understand my moods. That said...

I have more trouble understanding the people who have trouble understanding the 'negative.' To tell you where I'm coming from, I work with very young children. It's been documented that most people who beat their children in public do so because they perceive that the child has done something to cause them embarrassment. They then beat their child for that perceived embarrassment. They don't understand that the beating they are inflicting is far more detrimental to both the child's well being and the perception others have of them...far more than the actual negative act the child did in the first place.

I know this sounds like I'm going off the deep end, but I hope you can follow the dots in my brain. LOL.

It seems to me like some fans are embarrassed by negative statements. They don't want some un-named others to see those comments. They don't want Clay to see the negative. They don't want to see those comments themselves. However, I think that if a person has something they are not happy with, or something they are worried about, if they could just make their statement without others complaining about the complaint, then the whole business would be done. Their point would be duly noted, and we move on. Once others jump in to argue why they thought the complaint was wrong or explain how their thoughts are different, to me it's like beating the child.

Just because someone has a different opinion than you still doesn't make either one of you right...or wrong. (as I'm sure a whole bunch of folks who are rollin' their eyes at this post right now will attest to)

I don't believe Clay would be embarrassed, or bothered in any way, by negative comments. If he were that thin skinned he would have quit performing when his choir teacher gave him the boot years ago.

I think of all the damage done two years ago, this sensitivity to anything perceived as 'negative', is one of the worse things visited upon the fandom. I don't think someone with an opposing view should make you feel badly about your own and visa versa.

[djs111]

Claygasm said

And I prefer my glasses clear so I can see things as they really are - warts and all.

Hmmmm....crux of the matter, maybe - what some see as a wart, others regard as a beauty mark.

And when someone says no, that is a beauty mark, not a wart, their glasses are just as clear as yours, they just view things differently.

So "things as they really are" is subjective, as you said, that is all it is. Sadly, expressing differing opinions gets regarded as telling people they are wrong.

[Couch Tomato]

In so many ways, Clay has made me throw my sanity to the wind.

thread title...I know I can relate.

[jumpingjacks]

I just got a call that one of my friends is being tested to see if her kidney is compatible!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am in shock....I had no idea she was even thinking about it.

Talk about a belated Christmas present. (tears of stunned surprise)

[aikim]

Laughn I will admit that I am pretty thin-skinned when it comes to negative comments about Clay and for me, it comes from my own childhood...I was bullied much in the same way Clay was; so I do tend to regress back to that time when I see some of the comments directed at Clay regarding his hair, clothes, etc. Some posters do come across as bullying to me and no different than the kids Clay had to deal with in the schoolyard..bullies who can dish out, but can't take it and immediately run to the admins when someone calls them on their crap. I fully understand this is my problem and I try to be as objective as I can, but it isn't always easy. I have to remind myself that Clay is a grown man and probably doesn't take all this stuff as seriously as I do, but I still feel bad for him.

I do think there is a lot of hypocrisy in the fandom; pissing and moaning over bad reviews from the critics, comments by late night hosts, DJ's, etc., when the fans can be just as brutal.

Kim

JJ Wonderful news! Praying and keeping everything crossed that it is a match!

[laljeterfan]

I figure we're all allowed our thoughts, and depending what day it it, I'm sure what irked me yesterday might not even show up on my radar today. I figure that's how we humans are. I would hope that the people I post with daily would understand my moods. That said...

I have more trouble understanding the people who have trouble understanding the 'negative.'

It seems to me like some fans are embarrassed by negative statements. They don't want some un-named others to see those comments. They don't want Clay to see the negative. They don't want to see those comments themselves. However, I think that if a person has something they are not happy with, or something they are worried about, if they could just make their statement without others complaining about the complaint, then the whole business would be done. Their point would be duly noted, and we move on. Once others jump in to argue why they thought the complaint was wrong or explain how their thoughts are different, to me it's like beating the child.

Just because someone has a different opinion than you still doesn't make either one of you right...or wrong. (as I'm sure a whole bunch of folks who are rollin' their eyes at this post right now will attest to)

I don't believe Clay would be embarrassed, or bothered in any way, by negative comments. If he were that thin skinned he would have quit performing when his choir teacher gave him the boot years ago.

I have no problem with constructive criticisms, and preferences for certain performances. If someone expresses their opinion as just that, "THEIR opinion" then there is no need for argument. However, many of the consistently negative posters in the fandom express their opinions as FACT- they didn't like the JNT 05, or "the work" as some derisively call it, so it is not just that THEY THEMSELVES didn't like it, it becomes an error in judgement on Clay's part. They don't like a certain hair color, style etc, so Clay better get rid of John D/Steeeve/Jamie and get someone who really knows how to cut hair, because for Gawds sake, if he goes out in public looking less than "Rock-Stah" gorgeous, he'll lose fans. The fan stories were a horrendous idea- (said even before any of them had been heard by the fandom) and were a huge mistake- well, at least those stories that were submitted or read by someone other than their friends/boardmates. You get the idea.

And while it is obvious that Clay is certainly aware that some of his fans seem to get their jollies picking him apart strand by strand, I don't think he spends a whole lot of time reading all of the "helpful suggestions" offered to him by his all-knowing fan base. I love the fact that he has said, in effect, "I know that there are those out there who don't like x, y or z that I am doing, but ya know what- I LIKE IT, so I'm gonna keep doing it."