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#26: "Irreverent, surprisingly fearless, a total delight and a surprise!"


Ansamcw

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  1. 1. What should be the next thread title on the FCA board?

    • I'm considering running for President!
      1
    • Ya' gotta give me somethin', honey!
      40
    • The man's a joy magnet!
      12


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17 year olds!!! I considered sending my daughter to some desert island when she was 17.

The brain's not fully developed at 17.

No adult should be held accountable for his behavior at 17.

So very true. Having two sons eleven months apart in age going through those years so very differently I was gray before forty. I didn't kill either one although Mr. Fear came close to doing it. Both were so unbelievably stubborn. But as adults I couldn't be prouder of them. I had to force them to take on some extracurricular things. So I wouldn't be surprised if Clay wasn't strongly encouraged, at the age of 17, to participate in musicals and plays. It was and is obviously his strong suit. A typical protest, at least by my kids, would be not to cooperate.

I don't mind that statement by Mr. Mann since it shows how much Clay has grown and matured in attitude and experience.

My youngest has ADHD. He could not concentrate enough to take final exams, I had to sit in a private room with him at school so that he could focus enough to complete the tests. It took him 17 years to finish college. He went to five different colleges. He is now in graduate school and is doing fine, so he says. It is a disability which can often not be seen or even detected but can cause quite a bit of disruption in the lives of all the family members. Even now I can almost cry when I see him and his hands are shaking as he discusses yet another job interview that fell through. Sorry. Maybe TMI.

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My youngest has ADHD. He could not concentrate enough to take final exams, I had to sit in a private room with him at school so that he could focus enough to complete the tests. It took him 17 years to finish college. He went to five different colleges. He is now in graduate school and is doing fine, so he says. It is a disability which can often not be seen or even detected but can cause quite a bit of disruption in the lives of all the family members. Even now I can almost cry when I see him and his hands are shaking as he discusses yet another job interview that fell through. Sorry. Maybe TMI.

{{{Fear}}} I know exactly what you are talking about, except mine is just approaching 17 and the job interviews are in his future. He wants to go to college and become an auto mechanic.

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When I was in high school, I remember someone telling my class, "There's no adult alive who wants to be held to a decision they made when they were eighteen." So true. When I think back at who I was back then, and all the things I hadn't learned or experienced yet, I'm grateful that my biggest decision was simply about which college to attend. And even then, I kind of wish I'd had the guts to expand my horizons by going to an out-of-state school rather than one that was only three hours away from home. Ah well...

I can believe that Clay may not have been as focused at seventeen as he may be now. I can also believe that he may have a short attention span, although it may not necessarily be to the level of ADD. I have a cousin who had so much trouble concentrating on his studies (he got so restless and was easily distracted) that his fellow medical students advised him to get tested for ADD. Guess what? He didn't have it, and he was tested at a university facility.

((fear))

There have been times where I've gotten the feeling from some fans that EVERYONE must love Clay. Bugs the crap out of me too. Some people, even with second, third, and fifthteenth chances, just will not get Clay. That's fine with me.

Me too, ldyjocelyn. Many seem to think that if someone does not get Clay, it can only be because they were manipulated by AI/RCA/the media/etc., or because they're jealous. But honestly, there are good and decent people out there with different tastes. Sure, I wish more people saw what we see. However, even if Clay had everything going for him (sold out stadiums, #1 hits, critical acclaim and multi-media success), someone wouldn't like him. Not everyone likes The Beatles or Elvis either.

Personally, I think all we can do is try not to let it bother us too much and let Clay win people over. Trying to change everyone who has different tastes is, IMHO, futile and possibly even counterproductive.

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Goodness, that is one stunning banner! Took my breath away when I logged on!

Looks like we are going to get some more snow here in the Chicago area, I am so ready for winter to be over!

I love Clay's modesty too; I think he is very aware of how talented he is and considering his determination to get on AI, I would say a pretty healthy ego too, but it is refreshing to see someone who is not so in your face about it. I do not understand why some fans want him to change and be someone he is not.

I know some are bothered by the whole "we" and "us" thing he does and honestly, I have no idea why...doesn't bother me at all, most times I don't even notice it. If he were to start saying "I" all them time he would probably get skewered in the press for being big headed and some of those same fans would be the first ones complaining about it.

Kim

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I realize this probably should be posted in the Spamalot ticket selling thread but there seems to be no action there at all, so...

I have a ticket for sale for this Sat. Feb. 9 2:00 p.m. matinee. Mezzanine Row A Seat 112. My cost is $126 but will sell for $100. Need to meet you there since the ticket is being held at the box office.

PM me.

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workmanlike dancing (and yes, I know Scarlett and others insist that he's gotten better - but it's better at the same dance routine he's doing 7 times a week - he is definitely not a Timberlake or Michael Jackson or Gregory Hines or even one of the everyday hoofers on Broadway. Y'all know the boy could not have made the Soul Train line. He's not going to be cast in the next You got Served or Nutcracker either.) It does say something to me that Terrence remembered anything about a kid who had a bit part in a production from more than a decade ago.

It's not that at all! He now makes his part of the "Find Your Grail" dance rather sensual actually. I don't know how to put it any better. Totally different from watching Gregory Hines whom I wouldn't do multiples of, btw. If Clay danced like Gregory Hines or Michael Jackson, I wouldn't feel compelled to see him this many times. How often do you fly to another state to see these "great dancers"?

So no, he hasn't turned into MJ or Timberlake, thank goodness. He turned the Grail dance into the latest Clay Aiken move, and if you're really not planning to see this until April, well, *sigh*....

Oh, and to those who are planning NYC weekends of "oh, let's see. I'll go to Spamalot once and then then next day I'll go do this/that" -- people I talked to last weekend who went to another show on Sunday ended up wanting to leave thier show at intermission to run back to catch the Russian dance.

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It's not that at all! He now makes his part of the "Find Your Grail" dance rather sensual actually. Totally different from watching Gregory Hines whom I wouldn't do multiples of, btw. If Clay danced like Gregory Hines or Michael Jackson, I wouldn't feel compelled to see him this many times. How often do you fly to another state to see these "great dancers"?

So no, he hasn't turned into MJ or Timberlake, thank goodness. He turned the Grail dance into the latest Clay Aiken move, and if you're really not planning to see this until April, well, *sigh*....

Nah, but I will watch "White Nights" repeatedly to watch Hines and Baryshikov kick total ass. I have anything by the Nicholas Brothers saved on You Tube to watch over and over. And Michael Jackson? Yes, back in the day, if I could have afforded it, I would have. And Michael had lots and lots of crazy fans who did just that. And, looks around furtively, I never went to repeated Clay concerts for his "moves", as entertaining as they were. Heh. They were just a dollop of icing on great singing, wonderful banter, glorious eye-fucking.

I admit, I am picky about dancing, especially what I would call good/great dancing...because really great dancing moves me like great lyrics move others. I loved Rize. Went to go see You Got Served. Looking forward to How She Move. Took my child to see the Nutcracker every year until he rebelled and found another small child to go. I like what movement Clay does. Really, I do. But it will take a little more than sensuality to say, "ooo! The man can dance...." I look forward to seeing how well he does....

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Dragging over from Rainlover of the CH last night:

Don't think this has been posted yet - Article from 2/21/07 on Terrence Mann.

http://www.smokymountainnews.com/issues/02...t_broadway.html

Mann's career has given him the insight to know that even Broadway has its share of people who are fully committed while others really ought to find another job. You never know who might show up in a production - some with amazing abilities or others just along for the ride.

While directing a production of "1776" about 16 years ago, Mann found himself frustrated trying to position an actor on stage who didn't seem to be interested in his role. The actor turned out to be none other than American Idol sensation Clay Aiken.

Not all of acting comes down to talent, Mann readily admits.

"Sometimes it's better to be lucky than to be good," Mann said.

As someone said, that might just be why Clay doesn't mention this a lot. It seems to me that Clay is one of those people you either love to deal with (he's a charming bastard) or you can't stand (the charm doesn't work on you)

I've been rather perplexed by the discussion on the Terrence Mann article. I saw no Clay diss whatsoever. I thought it was a huge compliment that Mann even remembered Clay and I thought it was purely a "I remember them from when" type of mention and that Mann was proud that he was a part of Clay's formation as a performer (even though the process of teaching Clay may have had its trying moments), proud enough to mention him all these years later. Someone, either Mann or the writer used the expression "American Idol sensation"; that, to me, was an indication of respect, not an attempt to disparage. I even posted at Clayversity that I thought Mann might see Clay as a protégé and linked some YouTubes of Mann, as follows:

Cats

From his current job with a university and his linked stint with the Broadway Theater Project mentoring newbies, I have a hard time thinking that Mann was making a negative comment about Clay.

As far as this quote;

"Sometimes it's better to be lucky than to be good," Mann said
I thought Mann was talking about himself! My default position is that most interviewees are talking about themselves and not about someone they knew briefly over a dozen years ago. I also think many would agree that luck sometimes has more relevance than talent when it comes to success.
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I admit, I am picky about dancing, especially what I would call good/great dancing...because really great dancing moves me like great lyrics move others. I loved Rize. Went to go see You Got Served. Looking forward to How She Move. Took my child to see the Nutcracker every year until he rebelled and found another small child to go. I like what movement Clay does. Really, I do. But it will take a little more than sensuality to say, "ooo! The man can dance...." I look forward to seeing how well he does....

So let's not call it dancing. It's utterly fascinating to watch Clay Aiken move these days. Just like his singing which isn't easy to put into a box, there's something about whatever he's doing that draws people. He's "moving" right next to Patsy who's a marvelous dancer (and I :heart: Patsy btw) but I don't think that many people are transfixed at what Patsy's doing.

Like most things about Clay, this is a get it or don't get it thing. I know I'm not the only one but if you have a set idea of what "dancing" should be like, it's not an easy thing to recognize. Remember what it was like to hear him singing and to just listen to him without thinking of musical genres or careers or stuff? And the funny thing is, it seems to hit the NJU's more than "us". Maybe because we're so used to talking about how it's "all about the voice". One marker: the more the audience reacts to the "Fanny Brice" part the more enthusiastic the response to his "way of moving".

During the nights when the Clay Nation effect is more limited, it's a joy to see such enthusiasm for him still -- Clay's fans will clap at anything he does but the NJU's? What did Clay do that was so wonderful? He doesn't sing all that much.

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Yeah, I can see where you're coming from...because I do have a set idea of what "dancing" is - it will incorporate everything from ballet to jazz to hip hop to to just shakin' it on the dance floor but there is a minimum that has to be met for me to say, "Good dance". Clay has occasional hot dancelike movement. Livin' La Vida Loca springs to mind. Though for me, that thigh shake in Yeah doesn't. It was hot, it was anticipatory, but it wasn't dance.

Eeek! I've achieved normalcy in a segment of my Clay fandom! Unless he's really done something magically different, I will agree with Clay and say he's not a dancer. Oh wait, I have a con nec tion! Clay and I agree! Normalcy is overrated.

I'll admit, there are very few others who's dancelike moves I will watch with any interest at all. Wesley Snipes in the "Blade" series. Denzel Washington doing his power walk in just about any movie he's in. Clay commands my attention, but it's generally not with movement - it tends to be his expression. The most intense concert experiences I've had he's just stood there and sang. And I couldn't take my eyes off him.

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Jazzgirl...ITA that the Mann article can be taken as positive or neutral...depends on how we interpret that last line.

Kandre and scarlett....fascinating conversation...I wish I can see him dancing live too. I think what a lot of people may see as a natural about Clay is that he definitely can move his body...he is not stiff...I think what keeps him from being a better dancer is simply being self-conscious. I also think that one of the things that would separate Clay from the JT and MJ of this world is simply experience. These dancers that make it seem effortless actually had hours and hours of practice to make it look as good as that. Even the untrained kids that go on So you Think You Can Dance have a lot of dancing time under their belts...they just didn't do it formally. The fact that Clay can do a credible job besides these professional Broadway actors...is amazing considering he only had a few weeks practice and practically zero training and minimal experience. if he didn't have natural abilities...I think his inexperience will stand out so much more. I do think it helps that the choreography for the principal parts are not very complicated. I don;t know if DHP has had any dance training or experience but he didn't move like a dancer either...rather more like an actor.

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Ha ha! Now I disagree with Ansa too! I'm on a roll!

Now I won't deny that MJ and JT and Usher put in a lot of hours of practice - but there is still a raw talent that is just as rare in the population as Clay's natural singing ability. All the practice in the world won't make a great ballerina - and it's no different in any style of dancing. There is simply a physical element to it just as there is a physical element to the beauty of Clay's voice. I do see Clay as stiff and I see an endearing awkwardness in almost all of his movements - the gracefulness of his hands just scream a counterpoint to the awkwardness of the rest of his body - though a lack of stiffness still doesn't mean one can dance. The hyper-flexibility of his joints probably are the main source of what I see as the lack of innate ability - I think it puts an upper limit on the amount of precision Clay is capable of. Watching Clay from AI through now, with his missing of simplest of choreography (and I'm sorry, the little shoulder shake it took him a couple of months to get down wasn't exactly complicated) and the sincere pride he takes when he does get it...

I guess I'm saying yeah, everyone can be a dancer - in the same everyone can be a singer. Being a singer or dancer as something you are as opposed to something you do...that's different.

DHP ain't a dancer either.

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raises hands and wavesthem

Why yes, I did buy tickets to see gregory Hines more than once in the same play, and I got seats up front so close he sweated on me (ewww). He was young and very very talented, he was worth watching more than once.

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00lsee - I make my widescreen wallpapers 1440x900 as that is the size of my monitor. I hope this is correct cuz no one has ever told me different!!

Here's one (wide screen) I made a week or so ago and didn't get around to sharing it yet!

rockstarclay2.jpg

And here is the regular-sized version which is 1024x768:

rockstarclay1.jpg

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Just as an aside...... has anyone considered the possibility that those lyrics might go:

When I'm up here on the stage

I'll be the IDLE of my age...

just an IDLE thought.....

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hee... this is fun... but saying he is a natural at dancing is very far from saying that he is a great dancer. I agree with your point. There are a lot of people that can sing easily...but its not everyday you find someone that is as great as Clay's voice. In the same way there are a lot of people that can dance to the beat and can really move well but that does not make them an MJ and JT. But you can still say that they can dance. I really don't think anyone has said he is a great dancer so that he can be compared to MJ and JT. I do think that a lot of the awkwardness in his movements is because he is not used to dancing and has drilled it into his head that he can't dance...but when he lets himself forget that he can;t dance and is simply in the performance, I find that he can .

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JennaZ

When I was in high school, I remember someone telling my class, "There's no adult alive who wants to be held to a decision they made when they were eighteen."

Bwah. I got married at 18....and yeah, there have been times...heh

Dancing? I suspect Clay's quite naturally skilled at dancing. And he moves around a stage pretty well, too.

Waltz.gif

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Oh BTW...lots of Clay on Idol tonight...its at atlanta so they said they had found three superstars in atlanta...clay, jennifer and fantasia...that sold millions of records.

Then of course another slight diss from Simon...didn;t really get what he said, this guys would sing with a weird expression so they made him sing with his back to them then when he started dancing...Simon said something about like Clay Aiken and Randy and paula were both going...nooo...stop...so not sure what that is about.

then they showed the start of clays audition looking all dorky and said something like not looking like a pop start but he had the voice...then they went on to say that the same patter was happening...then they showed all these dorky looking people...but one difference...they didn't have the voice. So I say...was ok.

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hee... this is fun... but saying he is a natural at dancing is very far from saying that he is a great dancer. I agree with your point. There are a lot of people that can sing easily...but its not everyday you find someone that is as great as Clay's voice. In the same way there are a lot of people that can dance to the beat and can really move well but that does not make them an MJ and JT. But you can still say that they can dance. I really don't think anyone has said he is a great dancer so that he can be compared to MJ and JT. I do think that a lot of the awkwardness in his movements is because he is not used to dancing and has drilled it into his head that he can't dance...but when he lets himself forget that he can;t dance and is simply in the performance, I find that he can .

To me, there's more to dancing in an ensemble as opposed to dancing individually. I will be interested to see whether he is in sync with the other dancers on the stage...does he turn at the same time, do his arm movements, head movements, feet movements "snap" with the others. IMO, the very best thing about watching people dancing on stage is when they are all in step, turning together, snapping their heads together, etc. For me it shows a real concentration on everyone's part.

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Oh BTW...lots of Clay on Idol tonight...its at atlanta so they said they had found three superstars in atlanta...clay, jennifer and fantasia...that sold millions of records.

Then of course another slight diss from Simon...didn;t really get what he said, this guys would sing with a weird expression so they made him sing with his back to them then when he started dancing...Simon said something about like Clay Aiken and Randy and paula were both going...nooo...stop...so not sure what that is about.

then they showed the start of clays audition looking all dorky and said something like not looking like a pop star but he had the voice...then they went on to say that the same pattern was happening...then they showed all these dorky looking people...but one difference...they didn't have the voice. So I say...was ok.

Sounds positive to me, especially the last part--almost like it deserves vaulting!!

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Thanks for the banner...it is mesmerizing!!!
Yes! It is compelling. Love it!

Perhaps I'm alone in this, but I actually love his modesty. I know others would prefer that he promote his accomplishments more forcefully, but I find his self-effacement charming and not at all detrimental to his image or career.

I sometimes tire of folks complaining about this facet of Clay. I wrote last week at CV that expecting Clay to stop the self-deprecation is a bit like trying to hold smoke in your hand.

It is part of who he is.

And I do think it is part armor and part Southern training.

I mean, it is driven home that braggin' is for fools and politicians. At least in middle and lower class Southern families, young people are chastised strenuously against bragging. At least in my experience. I'm not sure about "upper crust", Charleston society folks, but certainly in the common folk.

And as much as he was made fun of, at least according to him, bragging would just have opened the door to ridicule, so, again, pointing out his own faults before someone else has a chance to puts that protective armor on.

My 2¢. :)

About his short attention span and thinking of students I've had in my classes . . .

1) He's typically male.

They are generally less 'calm' and 'more trouble' if you expect them to sit still, listen to instructions, be patient and "nice, polite, perfect" students. Most teachers (broad generalization here) have more trouble with boys, esp. in elementary. I can't tell you how many workshops touched on this unattainable expectation boys meet in the classroom.

2) He's very quick and bright.

Those are the students who get into trouble because they get bored.

They picked it up the first time you told them and have a hard time waiting around for everyone else to 'get it'.

And -

3) he's a comedian, so he has a hard time not releasing the funny that arises in his complicated mind while the teacher (or other authoritarian) drones on repeating the lesson for those less quick.

I think it's much more the above 3 things than ADD.

My son was a similar test for his teachers. I'm sure if he'd gotten a part and was working for TM, he would have had a similar evaluation! :cryingwlaughter:

The above all comes with a disclaimer.

I do not know Clay and didn't teach him. I'm just extrapolating!!!

Just to be clear!

:sickyet:

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Ha ha! Now I disagree with Ansa too! I'm on a roll!

Now I won't deny that MJ and JT and Usher put in a lot of hours of practice - but there is still a raw talent that is just as rare in the population as Clay's natural singing ability. All the practice in the world won't make a great ballerina - and it's no different in any style of dancing. There is simply a physical element to it just as there is a physical element to the beauty of Clay's voice. I do see Clay as stiff and I see an endearing awkwardness in almost all of his movements - the gracefulness of his hands just scream a counterpoint to the awkwardness of the rest of his body - though a lack of stiffness still doesn't mean one can dance. The hyper-flexibility of his joints probably are the main source of what I see as the lack of innate ability - I think it puts an upper limit on the amount of precision Clay is capable of. Watching Clay from AI through now, with his missing of simplest of choreography (and I'm sorry, the little shoulder shake it took him a couple of months to get down wasn't exactly complicated) and the sincere pride he takes when he does get it...

I guess I'm saying yeah, everyone can be a dancer - in the same everyone can be a singer. Being a singer or dancer as something you are as opposed to something you do...that's different.

DHP ain't a dancer either.

Perfectly put, KAndre! My observation is that Clay is capable of learning how to place his feet in choreographed positions, and maybe even shake his booty in just the right way at the right time, but I think none of those things come to him naturally...I htink he has to practice and learn them. I don't see any innate dance ability in him whatsoever. All those spontaneous 'moves' we've witnessed during concerts over the years, well it wouldn't surprise me to learn that he actually practiced those over and over again in front of a mirror. That's not to say that he doesn't do his dancing well in Spamalot...he's learned the steps well and seldom screws up, but a 'dancer' he's not. :cryingwlaughter:

I lurve him, and I'd still do him six ways from Sunday, dancin' or no.

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Heh heh...this is fun.

But what I was saying is that there are also a lot of people in choirs, singing in their shower, ahem, auditioning for American Idol - technically, they can sing, but nobody is gonna pay to listen.

Clay - I love Clay. But I dance better than Clay. With no training at all. Right now. (Though I admit he is at least capable of doing the bottle dance - once I got on my knees, I would be there for the rest of the night). But at 30, I woulda kicked Clay's ass dancing. And I know I'm not a natural dancer, but I can dance. There are plenty of uninhibited people flailing about on the dance floor - they can't dance either. The innate, natural dancing isn't something that can be inhibited any more that losing perfect pitch. As much as I hated that movie "Happy Feet", it did put dancing on the same level as singing - there is an innate level of talent. And some just ain't got it. Just like even people with absolutely no native talent in singing can be taught technique - it doesn't make them natural singers - it makes them workman like singers. I see Clay as the most charming workman like dancer on Broadway. Charismatic? Yep. Eye-catching? No doubt. Natural dancer? Nope. Sorry. Natural dancer can be seen from the get go. They will improve - but it's there from the beginning. I sincerely believe that Clay is much, much better now. I trust in Scarlett's observation. I believe he has relaxed into the role, I believe muscle memory is probably seriously starting to kick in, I believe increased confidence is reflected in his performance and the audience can see it - just the 5 years up to this point tells me Clay is not a "natural" dancer. It's not something you become, it's something you are.

Ha! I was laughing at AI because there was a 16 year old boy with 16 year old boy attitude - just like we discussed!

Aha! high fives Bookwhore! Exactamundo! See, I speak Spanish just like Clay in concert/blogs (which is also on the level of his dancing).

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To me, there's more to dancing in an ensemble as opposed to dancing individually. I will be interested to see whether he is in sync with the other dancers on the stage...does he turn at the same time, do his arm movements, head movements, feet movements "snap" with the others.

Clay does very well when dancing with the other actors. In the middle of his big number he literally does a Groucho Marx walk of the stage with another actor and I remember thinking how in step they both were. It was so well done that it really stuck in my mind how easy he made it look. It was very professional!

In a lot of the ensemble pieces he is definately in step with the others. He may not be as smooth but if you can get your eyes off of just him the whole cast blends very well and he becomes one of them. I made a point to watch the thing as a whole when I was sitting in the back of the mezzanine and I came away thinking that his movements fit in perfectly with the others. He may not be defined as a dancer by some, including himself, but he does well enough to be in sync with the others! He certainly did not stick out like a sore thumb*g*

That boy man picks up stuff like a sponge and the one thing he has in his favour is that he is willing to learn! And work at it until he "gets" it.

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Heee...bows at KANdre...and BW

yup I give up...hee...specially since

yeah I can see you dancing better than Clay...can't argue with that.

So for those interested at what Simon said...after he made the guy turn around and sing...he said that he should've asked Clay to do that....aww...Simon really thinks of clay a lot doesn't he...

oh and yeah I loved that kid that really out dissed Simon...hee. That was cool.

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