#28: The man's a joy magnet!

[aikim]

From linlas at CB

QUOTE

They're playing Invisible in the Shubert Lobby right now!!!

susandavis just called again, she said there is no hint of why no stage door, other than they said he wasn't feeling well...

....but she does have a cute story to tell....

they ate at Angus McIndoe's and the waiter asked what they had seen, they replied "Spamalot"...........and he said, "How was Clay?"

and then went on to say.......

"I'll tell you a cute story about Clay.....

He said he was walking to work one day and ran into Clay in Shubert Alley....going back and forth, back and forth, finally Clay stopped him and said, "can you tell me where ........the STAGE DooR is????" He said it was his first day and he couldn't find the stage door.....or what a difference a few months makes!!!!!

[aikim]

Picture of Playbill Ad at CV...scroll down:

http://www.clayversity.net/forums/index.ph...486&st=4470

[laughn]

aikim, when I first read that I thought what a cute story, but I didn't know if I believed it. I mean, I figured what with all the rehearsals he had before his run started he would have already seen the stage door. Then I remembered that he was rehearsing at a different place, so then I thought, 'yeah, maybe.'

Either way, pretty neat story. Being too sick for the stage door, not so cute.

[annabear]

Very cool!!!

[Claygasm]

YWT was the mother of preachy.

How so? The lyrics of the song say nothing about how someone else should behave.

what defines CCM is when the lyrics are referring to living your life according the Christianity, referring to scripture, preaching the gospel at you, trying to convince you that only Christians are moral and worthy of love - that kind of thing.

Actually isn't that what defines it for YOU? CCM is popular music that is lyrically focused on matters concerned with the Christian faith. It is an accepted genre in the music business with it's own Billboard charts. There are all sorts of songs that ARE considered CCM that don't fall into your definition. They are released as CCM, and played exclusively to CCM stations. They are CCM.

Jamar, if you had quoted the whole line I posted about what defines CCM you would have seen the first 2 words of the sentence:

To me, what defines CCM is when the lyrics are referring to living your life according the Christianity, referring to scripture, preaching the gospel at you, trying to convince you that only Christians are moral and worthy of love - that kind of thing.

I specifically put that in there to make clear that this was just MY opinion - but it seems it was overlooked anyway. Why did I bother?

As to YWT - no, it wasn't telling me how to live my life, but that was only part of my definition. It WAS preaching scripture IMO. The lyrics coupled with those in-your-face images of crosses and bibles made it TO ME over the top preachy and bordering on inconsiderate to some of the fans if not down right offensive. Subtle it was not. JMO.

Maybe you had to be in my shoes, but the whole YWT experience was one of the most horrible times in this fandom TO ME. From threads dedicated to hating on me because I didn't like it (a very un-Christian like thing to do) to being made to feel incredibly uncomfortable at his concerts to my simple dislike of the song and my feeling - that is MY feeling - that Clay was holding me captive at a pop concert and trying to convert me, made it a very bad time for me. I loved him enough and had enough faith in him to stick it out, but trust me when I tell you I came very close to walking away (which I am sure some of you wish I had done! ).

Why is there so little tolerance for those who are uncomfortable with too much religion in Clay's music? It isn't like I am telling him what to do. But whenever anyone says they don't like him singing things that are too religious (outside of Christmas music), people get upset. I just don't get it. Is it a rule that we all must love Clay singing religious stuff?

[jamar1700]

CG I did see the TO ME part in your post.... which was a big part of my point. As an accepted genre of music it is much more than your definition. There are many many songs that ARE really and truly considered CCM songs that aren't anything at all like what you described. They can't just be dismissed as NOT part of CCM. They are CCM and people will refer to them as such. Clay HAS used writers for this CD (if the track list is correct) and in the past that ARE considered CCM artists/writers. That isn't up for someone else to define.

I'm not intolerant of your belief system. But it seems you use the term Christian when describing certain fundamentalist activities. Most Christians that I know are not fundamentalist. I don't appreciate being painted with that broad brush anymore than you appreciate the intolerance your saying is directed at you.

I consider YWT a praise song. Clay said he sang it for himself and for God and that it wasn't an altar call.

[Clayzorback]

Geez, I guess I will be collecting Playbills for people again. I just caught up with the colored playbills.

:PickMe-1: :pickme: :AddEmoticons0426:

I'm not too proud to beg. Somebody please get me an autographed Playbill. I know Playbill is trying, but there are a lot of regular members here who have or will be going to multiple shows. Show some pity on me...........

[playbiller]

Oddly enough, I suffered through a board that did nothing but hate that song and complain it was a personal insult to his fans. Some people left the fandom hating Clay over it - IMO a bit much. I laugh though when I realized one person who left became a huge Constantine follower who has meany concerts in Greek orthadox churches singing Greek Orthodox songs, but she has no problem with that. Hypocrit much? I think fans are tougher on Clay than fans are on most people. All people are complex and in YWT, I think, Clay was showing a part of himself to us.

Now you may be near an atheist, but I have been one for a very long time, yet I post on boards where people are always asking for prayers that I can't offer. I have a personal experience when I was young that has embittered me toward prayers, but it is my issue. Yet I don't hate the people who ask for them, just accept it is part of who they are and hope they don't hate me back for not praying for them, I usually don't say anything, not knowing what to offer in it's place.

I know Clay has lost fans for doing WDC on concerts, some people took it as an affront on morality. Now there are supposed to be some who took offense at Spamalot and left and are angry at Clay for being in such a disgusting show.

I doubt that there is anything Clay can do that will not offend anyone, but only each person can decide if it is their burnt puppy. I cannot feel what others feel, so I have to acknowledge that what they feel is real.

Here is the question though, are fans askimg more of Clay than they have a right to ask? Is Clay being held to an impossible standard that does not allow him to fully express himself as he really is?

[aikim]

Speaking only for myself; I had and still do have a hard time understanding the very extreme reactions to the song...intolerance can go both ways and when I read posts denouncing the song; I find I get very offended because to me it is intolerence of the Christian faith. Clay said in LTS that he sang the song for himself only; to thank his God, not to try and convert people and I believe him.

Would it have been better if he had made announcement before each show that this song was included so those who were not interested could take a bathroom break or go to the merchandise stand? I don't think so.

I am Catholic and if Clay were Jewish and decided to sing a song in the middle of a concert with jumbotrons showing the Star of David and the Torah, I would not be offended. But maybe that is because I was brought up in a religious environment.

CG I don't know you and I don't know your background or why you have such strong feelings about religion, so maybe that is why I have a hard time understanding.

Kim

[atinal]

Why is there so little tolerance for those who are uncomfortable with too much religion in Clay's music? It isn't like I am telling him what to do. But whenever anyone says they don't like him singing things that are too religious (outside of Christmas music), people get upset. I just don't get it. Is it a rule that we all must love Clay singing religious stuff?

I also never thought that the words of YWT were too preachy or that I was having religion "shoved down my throat" when he sang one song with a religious theme in a pop concert. Who gets to decide what is "too much religion" or what songs are "too religious."

I don't believe I have ever gotten involved in the religion conversation that followed YWT before, but I can tell you that I was pretty offended by some the things people were saying about Clay at the time. Posts calling him Elmer Gantry and the like. I don't even consider myself a religious person but there were some pretty intolerant views expressed on both sides of this issue. So I guess I feel that tolerance goes both ways.

[playbiller]

For people who want a controversey break - I was looking for the videowhere Clay was defending Paula and found one video I had not downloaded here's a 4shared file of Clay in his first year in choir.

[KAndre]

CG, some of the reaction you get is due to some of the modifiers you use, occasionally painting with a broad brush, a tendency to use strong declarative statements and your last question was the equivalent of "When did you stop beating your wife?". You do make it clear that this your opinion (your very strong opinion - but the declarative nature of the comments that tend to follow your IMO don't tend to sound like opinions, that tend to sound like your stating them like facts) - you tend to get really strong opinions back - though a lot of what's coming back is very much on the defensive side (which I think would be a good thing to back up a little on all of this, because at this point I don't think anyone is going to change anyone's mind).

I think we've said it before: Strong statements will get strong reactions. Don't expect anything different.

The YWT brouhaha was an ugly episode for many people on both sides - it changed my opinion of a lot of people that I thought were open-minded or at least would make the attempt to be. People got beat down in all directions...and a lot of projections were put on Clay.

[aikim]

Playbiller I do believe there is a faction of the fandom who expect Clay to live up to their own moral code; some because they practice the same faith and some because I think they desperately want Clay to be who they want him to be. And partly, I think too, because the image he portrayed on AI, this sweet, southern boy who loves his Mama and his God. There are some who refuse to take Clay down off that pedestal and allow him to be a human being, flaws and all. I think Clay is partly to blame too, because I think he was new to everything and was so afraid of offending the fans, his family and especially his Mama, that I think he kind of boxed himself in with the family-friendly talk. Clay may have been 24 when we first met him, but I think emotionally he was a lot younger and had a lot of growing up to do and there are still a lot of fans who just do not want to see that growth and want him to remain that kid we saw in Atlanta.

Kim

[KAndre]

See, I never really saw Clay as being afraid to offend anyone from the get go - and a LOT more emotionally mature than many of his fans - I think he was and still is fairly serious about the "family-friendly" thing - the thing about the boards is that he could say someone ONCE and it will be repeated ad infinitum around the various boards in a constant way. Boxed himself in? No more than any other person of any age. There are probably lots of things he will and will not do - some of these things happen to get picked in an interview. But everyone has things they will and will not do. They just aren't interviewed about it.

He struck me as very mature for a 24 year old and seems to have progressed normally (at least, for the situation he's in) to a man of almost 30 - because the basic Clay dude still seems very much the same.

[playbiller]

I always interpreted the "family friendly" as something he thought teacher's should be and/or things he found lacking in caring for children (like family friendly radio).

[Clayzorback]

Avalon You Were There Lyrics

I wonder how it must have felt

When David stood to face Goliath on a hill

I imagine that he shook with all his might

Until You took his hand, and held on tight

'Cause You were there, You were there

In the midst of danger's snare

You were there, You were there always

You were there when the hardest fight

Seemed so out of reach

Oh, You were there, You were always there

You were always there

So there he stood upon that hill

Abraham with knife in hand was poised to kill

But God in all his sovereignty had bigger plans

And just in time, You brought a lamb

'Cause You were there,

You were there

In the midst of the unclear

You were there, you were there always

You were there when obedience

Seemed to not make sense

You were there, You were always there

You were always there

So haven't I learned that my ways

Aren't as high as Yours are

And You alone keep the universe

From crumbling into dust

You are God and though we would

Not have understood You

There You were

Hanging blameless on a cross

You would rather die than leave us in the dark

Every moment, every planned coincidence

Just all makes sense

With Your last breath

You were there, You were there

During history’s darkest hour

You were there, You were there always

You were the Victor and the King

You were the power in David's swing

You were the calm in Abraham

You are the God who understands

You are the strength when we have none

You are the living, Holy one

You were, You are and You will always be

the Risen Lamb of God

You were, You are and You will always be

The Risen Lamb of God

Lyrics > Avalon Lyrics > Avalon You Were There Lyrics

Sure sounds like a very religous song to me. I wasn't personally offended by Clay singing it. I was shocked, though, that he would sing it at a pop concert. Whether it was one religious song or five. It was not the proper place to do that, unless your concert is advertised as a CCM concert. Save that for church is my opinion. I'm glad Clay got the message, loud and clear, to not do that again. Religion and politics is very divisive and any celebrity who chooses to engage in either, has to take a risk of losing half his fans. It doesn't sit well with a lot of mainstream fans. They don't go to pop concerts to hear and see religious material. Whether Clay is singing it for his God or trying to convert. I don't consider a lot of Clay's fans, left online, to be mainstream, but rather more religious, like he is. Some are way OTT religious. So, IMHO it's hard for them to be objective to a lot of the decisions he makes in his career. It seems they don't want anybody else to be objective either. JMO you understand? I own it.

[playbiller]

Waves to Steven Rosenhaus

This blog totally cracked me up.

Linked with...Clay Aiken?

It's curious how things happen. Not that long ago MBW and I went to see Spamalot. We both enjoyed it very much and a few days later I posted my thoughts about it, including some comments (necessarily brief) about the actors. One such comment was this:

Clay Aiken: Yeah, the guy from American Idol, playing Sir Robin, Guard 1, and Brother Maynard. Surprisingly good.

"Not a big deal," one would think, and normally one would be correct. So imagine my surprise (and a little amusement) when in my once-a-month web search to see if anyone has reviewed my music I came across the message board for a Clay Aiken fan club, if not the Clay Aiken fan club. The first mention, by "loveOMC," is matter of fact:

"Just a tiny mention in a blog - but the kind of mention I like to see as it falls right into what Clay was hoping to achieve with Spamalot."

Fair enough. A few posts later "J4Clay" chimed in with this (edited for brevity):

"WOW! I didn't know who Steve Rosenhaus was, so I did some looking. This man isn't just any ol' little blogger. If Clay can impress this man, well, WOW!!! Read a little about this man who said..."

She (her icon is a picture of her hugging Aiken) then posted my bio page (with an old picture of me) from the Sigma Alpha Iota web site.

Thanks, Clay Aiken fans, for that vote of confidence. And Clay, if you come across this, keep up the good work.

Get with the program, Steve, we search and research - half the fans are librarians or teachers, the other half have a large percentage of IT people and a fair mixture of other professions!

[Claygasm]

EEEEEEEEEEE!!!

I just Clay on my teevee as Sir Robin!!!

It was on the NY station WABC as part of the Broadway Spring Preview in their Comings and Goings. They said something like "Clay Aiken continues to boost the sales for Spamalot" and they showed him singing the Idol of my age bit!

He is so damn CUTE!!!!

[jamar1700]

Sure sounds like a very religous song to me.

It sure is. I don't think anyone is saying that it isn't. I know I wasn't.

---

okay okay...

help....I'm in html hell....

[aikim]

Sure sounds like a very religous song to me.

It sure is. I don't think anyone is saying that it isn't. I know I wasn't.

I wasn't either.

Kim

[liney23]

Hey, we're on page 79... we gonna get a Thread Title vote thingy??? I'm ok if we don't, just sayin'

I had little problem with the song YWT, just the visuals. At that time, Clay wanted to do that song that way. Except for Christmas, he hasn't done it since. I know he said once he wanted to stay secular, so I figure this sorta thing will be few and far between. Everyone has their own line to be crossed as to what is acceptable and what is not. On his demos he sang that Blood song that I always skip... except when I fast forward thru to the ending, which I absolutely love. His voice on that ending is GAH!!!

That ad is double-A awesome and in every blessed Playbill on Broadway for a month! Clay... money well spent!!!

[Claygasm]

Question on the Playbill ad. Is it in already because its still March and I told muski about when I talked with her earlier and she didn't see it in hers and if its not already in the Playbill, how did the person who scanned it get it and how can I get it tomorrow since I won't be back until April 27th and don't want to miss it?

And is the above the longest run-on sentence ever??

[Cotton]

Watching AIR and I have to say, seeing Clay's "current" interviews, I'm really missing the blond hair!

I know some people say the blond hair washes him out. To me, it's just the opposite. I think the dark hair washes him out! I think back to pictures of him with Just By Chance, and his long blond bangs, and I think his hair color today really is much more natural with his Scottish fair skin and green eyes!

He looks so pale to me in the AIR interviews.

Oh, and I thought he looked GREAT in the BMUB suit - his hair, everything. I thought he looked quite handsome strapping!! heh

[KAndre]

Sure sounds like a very religous song to me. I wasn't personally offended by Clay singing it. I was shocked, though, that he would sing it at a pop concert. Whether it was one religious song or five. It was not the proper place to do that, unless your concert is advertised as a CCM concert. Save that for church is my opinion. I'm glad Clay got the message, loud and clear, to not do that again. Religion and politics is very divisive and any celebrity who chooses to engage in either, has to take a risk of losing half his fans. It doesn't sit well with a lot of mainstream fans. They don't go to pop concerts to hear and see religious material. Whether Clay is singing it for his God or trying to convert. I don't consider a lot of Clay's fans, left online, to be mainstream, but rather more religious, like he is. Some are way OTT religious. So, IMHO it's hard for them to be objective to a lot of the decisions he makes in his career. It seems they don't want anybody else to be objective either. JMO you understand? I own it.

I think everyone agrees that YWT was a religious song - I think the disagreement is over what it meant to Clay, to some fans, to whomever. As for religious songs in pop concerts - I guess it depends on the pop concert. Frankly, if you hit a large number of "pop" concerts - U2, as a classic example, Creed, Switchfoot or probably 7/8 of R&B concerts, hell, half the rap acts, there's a good chance you're gonna get a religious song - and I don't think it would occur to any of them to advertise themselves as "CCM". Hell, one of the arguments I went around with during the YWT thingie was asking why JIL was OK, but YWT was eeeeeeevil, and got comments like, "oh it wasn't staged like a church song (even through it had stained glass windows that just suddenly appeared and and a fully robed gospel choir). I went to a Commodore concert when JIL was in full radio rotation - and THAT was an altar call. And quite specific. If I recall correctly, it showed up in the concert a couple of songs before "Brick House".

There are a lot of concert stylistic changes Clay has made - and we don't know really why. One concert tour he had vaguely Christian (and lord knows they were fairly vague - people couldn't even agree of what the words were or what they meant) images on a Jumbotron, another he entered through the crowd on a triumphal march to the stage; he's had catwalks; he's had risers. The most consistent thing he's done recently is have symphonies - and sing pretty.

As for my preference of dark-haired Clay as opposed to blond Clay - Blond Clay just looks so very beige and white-bread - just Clairol #5 like five millions other generic blond dudes - the hair blends in with the skin and the Father's Knows Best sweater - he just looks like regular store brand vanilla to me instead of the sinfully good Blue Bell Homemade Vanilla that I would sell other people's kidney's for. He looks...OK, but there's nothing edgily hot to me there. Maybe a nice razor cut...I dunno. Maybe if he went platinum blond...I need some contrast to show off my pasty white boyfriend! I love the translucence of his skin with really dark hair, but I love the sheer prettiness of the chestnut (which goes really, REALLY well with that Scots/Irish complexion)...

[laljeterfan]

I was a member of a fairly small, close-knit board at the time of the NAT concerts, of which the main owner of the site was an atheist. She went with some of the other board members to the first concert of that tour, and apparently had a major melt down after the concert in relation to YWT. She made a few cryptic comments about it at the time on the board, but nothing major. I saw the concert several weeks later, and although I am a fairly irreligious person, I LOVED YWT-it was so powerful, and Clay's connection to the song was so evident. Shortly thereafter, the owner of the board posted what I considered to be a very hateful message on the main page of the board denouncing Clay and his decision to sing this song, and inferring that it had been a board decision, not just a personal decision on her part, to close it down.

My cousin and I, who were members, were stunned! Clay's church at the time, Leesville Baptist, had a section on their website about Clay, and one of the links they had in that section was to our site. It really bothered me to think that someone who visited the church website, and clicked on the link to our board, would see the diatribe that was printed there. Even though the board owner eventually apologized for her actions, and the board stayed up for a while, (I believe it has now closed down),it splintered the board apart. Quite a few members left to form a different board, and things were never the same.

The thing that was the hardest for me to understand was the intolerance. If you want your belief system (or lack thereof) to be respected, then you need to show some respect for everyone else's as well, and allow them the freedom to express it as they see fit, as long as they are not encroaching upon anyone's rights or liberties. I think aikim mentioned the analogy of a Jewish person singing Jewish songs, and that was always my thought as well. I have always been a HUGE fan of Barbra Streisand- never been lucky enough to see her perform in person though- but if I did, and she sang a song about her religious beliefs, I wouldn't be offended by that at all, nor would I feel that she had no right to sing them without a disclaimer or notice to anyone who might not be of the same faith. And yes, I even went to see YENTL! Whatever happened to "live and let live"?