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keepingfaith, this is probably old hat to you but I am interested to know if you have read Creature From Jekyll Island, and what you think of G. Edward Griffin, the author. It's about the Federal Reserve, and it is an eye-opener (banking cartel), so many people don't seem to know who controls the Federal Reserve, and therefore controls their life.

An MP3 of the book is available at http://www.spielbauer.com/JekyllDownload.htm. It is presented by G. Edward Griffing himself, a very talented speaker.

It is approx 1 hour and worth your time - to anyone who hasn't read the book. I assure you, it's NOT boring!

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The Clinton campaign was behind the Rev. Wright business. Hillary's been playing toe-sies with Fox lately, and Fox has been pro-Hillary. If the Republicans were holding the Rev. Wright information, why did they release it during primary season and not wait until October? It was only in Hillary's interest that it came out when it did.

Keepingfaith, this absolutely hearsay perpetuated by political bloggers and journalists. I worked closely with our local campaign for Hillary. There were quite a few African American supporters of Hillary including two men from Maryland sent to run the headquarters who spent a month sleeping on the floor eating whatever a volunteer chose to bring in. Never was the Rev. Wright issue brought up. They were quite clear in discussing that their issue with Barack was his lack of experience. There was one volunteer, a black man, who said his community was upset with Michelle Obama, the way she spoke and the way she dressed. It seems she showed her knees with short dresses. I was a little shocked by that as I never knew there was a dress code for first lady candidates, so I assumed it was a religious thing.

I also never thought that Fox was nice to Hillary. My neighbor watches Fox ALL the time and he said they talked about what a liar Hillary is, so he favored Barack.

In phone banking we were never negative, we only spoke of what Hillary would do as president. Barack has been treated with kid gloves by the press. I'm afraid he is in for a rude awakening and I don't look forward to it. JMO

The Hillary supporters I met were wonderful caring people. After the primary it was so sad that the headquarters was disassembled as it was part of a young woman's home that she gave up temporarily. We promised to get together and support some of our other local candidates after the summer.

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keepingfaith, I agree with you on why Hillary is staying in and that it is basically over. However there are other reasons she stays that are not so evil driven. Her constituents want her to fight the good fight until the end. The last polls I saw suggest most Americans want her to stay in. She also has a huge debt to pay back. Each state she wins, affords her more donations to help ease that debt. I agree it's politics and I agree with couchie that politics is a dirty business. However, I think it is naive to think that Obama's hands are clean and not politically driven. Or that if the tables were turned he would drop out. I heard he sent a memo around to his people instructing them to look for something that has been said, that they can use the race card for. They found something in what Bill Clinton said and twisted it around and used the race card. THAT is dirty politics too. To even suggest that Bill or Hillary Clinton are raciists is beyond hitting below the belt. There isn't an ounce of racism between the two of them put together. They have done more for African Americans than almost any other politician. For anyone to buy into the racist stuff makes me very hurt, disappointed, and sad. Obama is a politician just like the rest of them. Make no mistake about it. He wants to be president just as badly as Hillary, McCain or anyone else. While he may not be taking money from lobbyists directly, it is being funneled into his campaign. According to what I skimmed in the article you just posted. I question the validty of Hillary and her campaign breaking the Reverend Wright story, though. Sean Hannity did that but I don't know who his sources were. We haven't even discussed the Ayers relationship here. It might be guilt by association, but the truth of the matter is that people judge you by the company you keep. Barrack, IMHO, has not used good judgment in his pick of friends, for someone who planned to seek political office.

I want change in politics as much as the next person, but it isn't going to happen anytime soon, IMO. A politician is a politician and I bet it won't be 6 months into Barrack's first year that you will hear of something he has done that will help benefit his state of Illinois or himself. He is not above it all. Same with Hillary and McCain.

Speaking of McCain. Why is the left side of his face so swollen? Is that from being beaten while being a pow? Does he have cancer? I didn't know that.........

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keepingfaith, I agree with you on why Hillary is staying in and that it is basically over. However there are other reasons she stays that are not so evil driven. Her constituents want her to fight the good fight until the end. The last polls I saw suggest most Americans want her to stay in. She also has a huge debt to pay back. Each state she wins, affords her more donations to help ease that debt. I agree it's politics and I agree with couchie that politics is a dirty business. However, I think it is naive to think that Obama's hands are clean and not politically driven. Or that if the tables were turned he would drop out. I heard he sent a memo around to his people instructing them to look for something that has been said, that they can use the race card for. They found something in what Bill Clinton said and twisted it around and used the race card. THAT is dirty politics too. To even suggest that Bill or Hillary Clinton are raciists is beyond hitting below the belt. There isn't an ounce of racism between the two of them put together. They have done more for African Americans than almost any other politician. For anyone to buy into the racist stuff makes me very hurt, disappointed, and sad. Obama is a politician just like the rest of them. Make no mistake about it. He wants to be president just as badly as Hillary, McCain or anyone else. While he may not be taking money from lobbyists directly, it is being funneled into his campaign. According to what I skimmed in the article you just posted. I question the validty of Hillary and her campaign breaking the Reverend Wright story, though. Sean Hannity did that but I don't know who his sources were. We haven't even discussed the Ayers relationship here. It might be guilt by association, but the truth of the matter is that people judge you by the company you keep. Barrack, IMHO, has not used good judgment in his pick of friends, for someone who planned to seek political office.

I want change in politics as much as the next person, but it isn't going to happen anytime soon, IMO. A politician is a politician and I bet it won't be 6 months into Barrack's first year that you will hear of something he has done that will help benefit his state of Illinois or himself. He is not above it all. Same with Hillary and McCain.

Speaking of McCain. Why is the left side of his face so swollen? Is that from being beaten while being a pow? Does he have cancer? I didn't know that.........

From my observations, I thoroughly agree ... the Clintons aren't perfect but they are not racists.

What I find very interesting is that Oprah supports Obama and Maya Angelou (Oprah's beloved mentor) supports Hillary. Perhaps Bill Clinton choosing Maya to recite her poem at his inauguration might have something to do with it. Equally interesting is that prominent members of the Kennedy clan are split, some supporting Obama, some supporting Hillary.

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I dont' think the Clintons are racists. They'll just do anything to win, as I'm sure would Oama. Like I said, I hold all politicians with the same regard. And as I said that's not really something that has ever bugged me before.

Black folks love Bill Clinton. I'm not sure I'd say that love ever translated to Hillary. Not speaking for all African Americans, just what I've seen in my own circles since he first ran for president. As Chris Rock said, Bill was the first black president. But still, we don't vote 100% anything. I'm sure even McCain will get some black votes.

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What I find very interesting is that Oprah supports Obama and Maya Angelou (Oprah's beloved mentor) supports Hillary. Perhaps Bill Clinton choosing Maya to recite her poem at inauguration might have something to do with it. Equally interesting is that prominent members of the Kennedy clan are split, some supporting Obama, some supporting Hillary.

Why is that interesting? Oprah likes to pick things for people - book, presidents, whatever. I don't look to a talk show tycoon for literature or presidential picks, money doesn't mean she is right.

Are you implying that Maya Angelou is only endorsing Hillary because of her poem? I find that kind of distastefully dismissive of Maya Angelou.

Kennedy endorsements? Just being related to JFK does not mean anything to me. And if Teddy had endorsed Hillary, Chappaquiddick would be all over the place - then there is murder and rape from other Kennedys.

And I believe that some of the endorsements are just jostling for a place at what looks to be the new table.

Nothing speaks more clearly to me than the closeness of the popular vote. I have not cared about endorsements for years.

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[Compares Hillary to the Black Knight in Monty Python

I don't know if you have to register but it's the Washington Post.

Off to the SIL's farm.

I was able to access it... I hope no one takes offense by this excerpt from that article. Somehow it made me chuckle to be reading it as a result of being a member of a Clay board:

Oregon on Sunday, Obama packed in more than 70,000 people for a rally. In the gym in Maysville, there are 400. The demographics reflect Clinton's base in this race: mostly white, mostly women, mostly old.

(Please people, have a sense of humor!)

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(Please people, have a sense of humor!)

Oh, it has been a long time since I thought any of this bullshit was funny. I do find it very interesting that Obama fans feel the need to repeat this stuff and then say Oh have a sense of humor. I had the option of clicking on the link, or not, when Fear posted the link. Tacky cheap shots at best. Enjoy. This stuff just cements my dislike for a person who I did not care for in the first place.

What all this has done is make me feel that I won't vote for McCain, but I just cannot imagine voting for Obama. It would be like joining a club after the members jeer at you. Not going to happen, for a lot of people.

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What I find very interesting is that Oprah supports Obama and Maya Angelou (Oprah's beloved mentor) supports Hillary. Perhaps Bill Clinton choosing Maya to recite her poem at inauguration might have something to do with it. Equally interesting is that prominent members of the Kennedy clan are split, some supporting Obama, some supporting Hillary.

Why is that interesting? Oprah likes to pick things for people - book, presidents, whatever. I don't look to a talk show tycoon for literature or presidential picks, money doesn't mean she is right.

Are you implying that Maya Angelou is only endorsing Hillary because of her poem? I find that kind of distastefully dismissive of Maya Angelou.

Kennedy endorsements? Just being related to JFK does not mean anything to me. And if Teddy had endorsed Hillary, Chappaquiddick would be all over the place - then there is murder and rape from other Kennedys.

And I believe that some of the endorsements are just jostling for a place at what looks to be the new table.

Nothing speaks more clearly to me than the closeness of the popular vote. I have not cared about endorsements for years.

As a rule, Oprah doesn't get involved in politics. This is the first time I've seen her firmly endorse a politician. I love and admire Oprah, not because of her money or power but because of her philosophy and honesty. Despite being, arguably, the most powerful media person in the world, she is incredibly grounded and incredibly human.

With regards to Maya Angelou, my bad. I didn't mean to imply that Maya is endorsing a Clinton because they picked her for Bill's inauguration. Rather, that perhaps she has a close relationship to the Clintons... and that resulted choosing her to recited her poem.

I don't live in the USA so my perceptions could be flawed, but it's my perception based on what i read and hear from the other end of the world and most especially from the internet.

One thing though, I do have an admiration for Hillary as well, I know way more about her than I know about Obama, for obvious reasons. I am just glad I don't need to vote. (In my country, voting is compulsory for anyone 18 and over.)

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I was able to access it... I hope no one takes offense by this excerpt from that article. Somehow it made me chuckle to be reading it as a result of being a member of a Clay board:
Oregon on Sunday, Obama packed in more than 70,000 people for a rally. In the gym in Maysville, there are 400. The demographics reflect Clinton's base in this race: mostly white, mostly women, mostly old.

(Please people, have a sense of humor!)

Not even going into what is says and/or who it says it about, I too find some humor in that part, Claytonic. Actually, I find some humor in the whole Python comparison as a result of being a Clay fan over the past few months. It truly is a small world.

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Perhaps Bill Clinton choosing Maya to recite her poem at inauguration might have something to do with it.

There really is no other way to read that sentence.

I don't think of a person who jokes about not knowing how to pump gas, or that she throws out pantyhose after wearing them once as grounded. I think Oprah thinks she is entitled to pick a president. Shrug. I also think her money made Obama a viable candidate.

I think it is time for me to just skip this thread, because there is no debate left, really.

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Claytonic, so what do you mean it's compulsary. That's fascinating. Can you tell us more?

Oprah's not that powerful. While I'm not passionate about either candidate I don't think one side has a lock on anything as far as supporters go. Obama seems not to be given much credit for what he's done... oprah, media, etc.

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Perhaps I'm being misunderstood here. I had a hard time picking a candidate this year because there were several of them that I could have supported whole-heartedly in any given year, and this year they were running against each other. Each had strengths and weaknesses -- there is no perfect candidate and never will be.

But most of these arguments are so specious. If experience is such a big thing, why didn't Joe Biden get one delegate?

Politics is a dirty business and always will be. It was so at the time of the founding of this country and it remains so. The Clintons claim to fame was that they could give as good as they got. I don't think of it as evil-driven, I think of it like this: Every four years somebody's trying to overthrow the government. We have a legal coup d'etat everytime one party takes over for another. We don't shoot our leaders (well, most of the time we don't), but a war is fought for the power and instead of guns we use ballots, or touch screens. It's rougher than hell whether we like it or not, it doesn't matter whether we approve or disappove. It is what it is.

If you need to think that your candidate is all goodness and light and doesn't stoop to twisting the truth, or using fear as a tactic, believe what you need to. It's all a matter of seeing the speck in your brother's eye and missing the beam in yours if you think there's a candidate that doesn't resort to tricks and spins and set-ups and all manner of manipulations. I don't think the Clintons are racist in any way whatsoever. Will they use racism to their advantage? Hell, yeah. Hillary didn't say that she was getting the support of "hard working Americans, white Americans" because she's racist ... she's playing on the fears that a black man can't win white votes. The Republicans have been doing this sort of thing quite successfully since 1964, it's not some new tactic. Is she a racist? Most definitely no. Does she want the votes of racists? You betcha she does. And if that bothers you, that's your value system. If it doesn't bother you, that's your value system.

I started supporting Obama when it became crystal clear to me that he will be the Democratic nominee this year and that he will face John McCain in November. That makes him my guy. And, frankly, he played a better game. He's pretty much wrapped up the nomination and has a fortune in the bank and hasn't had to shake up his staff. He's been a cool customer. And inasmuch as John McCain is a well-known hothead, I think that's a real positive for Obama in this campaign.

Do I mourn for Hillary's loss. I did for a while, but I'm over it and I don't believe for a minute that she got a dirty deal, or wasn't treated right, or any of that scapegoat stuff. In the long run,, she played it too safe for too long. I could write a paper on the failings of her campaign staff. But she's ultimately responsible for her staff, and if these are the people who would have gone into the White House next year in a Clinton administration, we didn't miss a thing except power struggles and back-stabbing.

Barack Obama wasn't on my radar until the late stages. I do remember watching his speech at the 2004 convention, the first time I'd ever heard of him, and my sister called and said, "he's going to be the President of the United States one day." I agreed. I just didn't think it would be this soon. I thought this was Hillary's year and that after eight years of Hillary it would probably be Obama. Things happened faster than I imagined.

If I could turn back time, I would go to New Orleans and forceably prevent John Edwards from withdrawing from the race when he did. Not that he'd be the one to win in the end, but it would have been healthier for the party with what's going on.

I will say this straight up. Any Democrat who doesn't go to the polls in November and vote for the nominee of the party this year, of ALL years, with the condition of this country and the whole world being what it is, if you let cult of personality, or campaign grudges and disappointments keep you at home, that is unforgiveable. I don't care if Biden, Dodd, Kucinich, or Mike Gravel is the nominee, they'd all be better than John McCain. They could dig up Harold Stassen and he'd be better than McCain.

I guess I'm the designated defender of Barack Obama on here. I'll be that, because he's gonna be the nominee and it's time to close ranks. Prolonging the contest is playing right into the hands of the Republicans. Hillary seems willing to do that. Seriously, something else is going on besides Hillary wanting to make sure the Puerto Ricans get to vote in their primary, when they don't even get to vote in the November elections. There's something else going on ... and I don't like it.

When the Democrats didn't settle the nomination before the convention in 1968 and 1972 -- they lost.

When the Republicans had a fight all the way to the convention in 1976 -- they lost.

When the Democrats didn't settle things before the convention in 1980 -- they lost.

The way I see it, our entire democracy, the Constitution of the United States of America and The Bill of Rights is at stake. The Supreme Court is at stake. And this ain't no hyperbole.

Very sad news about Ted Kennedy.

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Claytonic, so what do you mean it's compulsary. That's fascinating. Can you tell us more?

Couchie, basically it has been a civic duty for over 80 years now for legal adults to register for voting at elections. Voting is by secret ballot so there is always a percentage of people who deliberately mess up their voting form for a variety of reasons. Those who do not vote are fined, but the fine may be waived for extenuating circumstances, such as illness, etc.

Just to confuse you, :cryingwlaughter: if you are a "liberal" supporter in Oz, you'd need to be clear on whether you mean "Liberal" or "liberal".

Liberal (proper noun). The Liberal Party is the conservative one, i.e. on par with the Republicans.

liberal (adjective). The Labor Party, and on par with the Democrats.

John Howard was the Liberal Prime Minister, and was very tight with GW Bush, hence we went to Iraq because there was no way Mr Howard would have said no to Mr Bush. That blind loyalty was the major contributor in his humiliation at the Federal Elections earlier this year. We now have a Labor Prime Minister.

Further, LOL, 'Labor' is only ever supposed spelt this way if it is a proper noun, i.e. referring to the Labor Party. Otherwise, it is "labour", as in "work".

Clear as mud?

Oprah's not that powerful. While I'm not passionate about either candidate I don't think one side has a lock on anything as far as supporters go. Obama seems not to be given much credit for what he's done... oprah, media, etc.

I am surprised you say she is not that powerful. I’ve even talked to Saudi housewives who absolutely adore her. She is a phenomenon in the most extraordinary sense of the word. At worst, she is the most powerful woman in the world, although her recent passion for A New Earth has earned her some serious disapproval from religious fundamentalists who now refuse to watch The Oprah Show. (This is where I admire Clay, he may not personally agree with it but he would never sit in judgement of another’s right to explore new concepts in spiritual philosophy as part of their life’s journey).

I truly hope his detractors will finally acknowledge the difference he has made, and put Chappaquiddick to rest. I know it was a terrible tragedy, but he too suffered immense losses so early in life, and the responsibilities placed on his young shoulders as the senior male in his family must have been an unbearable burden at times. I have read a great deal about his family - Eunice Shriver is probably the Kennedy I most admire.
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I don't believe I ever said that Hillary doesn't or wouldn't resort to tricks or lies. That is part of what makes a great politician great, isn't it? Knowing how to play the game? :cryingwlaughter: No body knows politics better than the Clintons. They are brilliant at it. What I believe I have stated, a couple of times, is that a politician is a politician. They are all alike and will do what is necessary to win. I said that includes Hillary, McCain and Obama as well. I said Obama's hands are not clean either, not that Hillary's wasn't dirty. None of them are going to walk into the white house and reach across the aisles and make everything nicey nice and better, overnight or even in the next 4 years. It's going to take more than just having a democrat win this election, to make changes. IMHO As for why Biden didn't get any delegates, I would assume it is because he dropped out very early in the game. Like you said, timing is everything, and this wasn't his time and he realized that. My gripe is about fairness and a level playing field. I already was going to support Hillary, but when I really embraced her was when Obama's people started right off with Ferraro. Twisting her words around and using the race card. They did it again with both Bill and Hillary. The DNC never stood up for Hillary. One of their own party nominees. Then you had the Liberal media choosing Obama (because he is the most liberal democrat out there) as their winner and then set about to serve the kool aid to the public, who eagerly drank it. Manipulation, spin, subliminal messaging. Until they had all of America thinking he is the 2nd coming. They have never even vetted him. Where as Hillary has had to produce her personal tax records. Why? They haven't been in office for years. Even every victory and huge win she gets has been downplayed and ignored. The liberal media and Obama's team have been running around acting like they are the winners from the start practically. Totally ignoring that Hillary is still in the running. It is unbecoming and insulting to the millions of supporters of Hillary Clinton. Of which Obama is going to need this fall. The last poll I remember showed 35 per cent of her supporters would vote for McCain and 16 percent would stay home. If she isn't the nominee or his VP running mate, because she wants to be, I will be in that 16 per cent staying home and people can think what they want of me.

Hillary has made changes in her staff. If I remember correctly Obama got rid of someone too. Some guy making deals with somebody he shouldn't have. Yes Hillary is responsible for how her campaign is run and so is Barack. So is McCain. It's politics. It happens every election.

Yes Hillary is hoping to sway the superdelegates into choosing her. Last I heard Obama was having several meetings of his own trying to sway the delegates. Neither one of them could of won without the super delegates. So why not let the race go on? They won't back Hillary, though. IMHO the reason they won't is they are afraid of losing Obamas supporters from the party and worried about them rioting or some such nonsense. Well, they better worry about all those voters in Florida and Michigan being lost to our party and voting for MCain in the Fall. I am not the rseident expert but I have eyes and ears too. Everything is subjective but I strongly disagree with you that she has been treated fairly. Politics and religion is too divisive and that is why I usually never discuss it with anyone except like minded people. You could lose friends that way, and that is never a good thing. :F_05BL17blowkiss: I'm glad you are passionate about Obama just as much as I am Hillary. I think this being the historical event of a lifetime warrants Hillary staying in so that all 50 states can participate and vote for their candidate and be a part of this history making. Why people begrudge her her right I will never know. She is not hurting our party one bit by staying in. Not a bit. However if Obama loses against MCCain in the Fall she will get the blame. Mark my words.

Thanks for that explanation Claytonic. I think the Kennedys I admired the most were John and Jacquelyn. I loved her as much as John. Very classy lady.

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I'll just WORD Clayzorback. And really, as an older white woman, I have read quite a LOT about how my vote really can be dismissed because I am just one of those older white women, so okay, then.

Here is a link someone sent me that illustrates why I am now just disgusted. It is from the Washington Post, and is a compendium of some of the more egregiously shitty things said in the media about Hillary.

Misogyny I Won't Miss

I would just as soon not have to read it again, that is why I am not quoting it. I have no sense of humor about this shit, it is dehumanizing, and is meant to be dehumanizing. None of the people quoted will get any kind of support from me whatsoever. Not that they care, I know.

Teddy Kennedy - terrible about the brain tumor. When I brought up Chappaquiddick, it was because Monica Lewinsky pales next to what happened there, but people use Monica as a test of character for Bill, and as a goad to poke at Hillary, but somehow Teddy has been canonized. A girl died. But somehow just having the name erases all, it depends on political expediency.

However if Obama loses against MCCain in the Fall she will get the blame. Mark my words.

Yup. Pitiful and untrue, but Yup. I would feel differently if there was any sort of big lead in the popular vote, but at this late date, almost as many people prefer Hillary. Yes, I understand that only racists and old white women and uneducated blue collar workers (new label for not having attended college and working for a living) vote for Hillary, but damn! There sure are a lot of them - to think one can win, perhaps that should have been taken into consideration. I am not in the least bit angry at this point, just almost bemused.

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Then you had the Liberal media choosing Obama (because he is the most liberal democrat out there) as their winner and then set about to serve the kool aid to the public, who eagerly drank it.

Where did you find this "liberal media?" I keep hearing about and I've searched for at least 30-40 years now. I must find this grail liberal media.

Are you saying that people support Obama because the "liberal media" told them to? This sounds vaguely familiar, like from the mouth of Rush Limbaugh. Come on girl, please tell me you're NOT listening to Rush now, because those are his words.

BTW, John Edwards, Dennis Kucinich .. both way to the left of Obama. The "liberal media" didn't like the two most liberal candidates?

they are afraid of losing Obamas supporters from the party and worried about them rioting or some such nonsense.

Clayzor, where are you getting this unadulterated shit? What I'm hearing you say is that you only like the Clintons ... and that if they can't win, you're willing to contribute to four more years of what we've got. You and your family will have to live in it too, you know. And you're good with that? And the war will go on. And the Supreme Court will kill every individual liberty we enjoy. The Constitution will be, and I quote George W. Bush ... "just another piece of paper" and women's rights will be in the toilet. But you'll be satisfied with that, huh? Say it ain't so, Joe. Say it ain't so. :cry4:

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I have to agree about the liberal media. That's always been a label that's been thrown around. The media has always been able to be charmed or hoodwinked...liberal or conservative has nothing to do with it.

And DJS where the heck do you read. Why are you taking the most horrible stereotypes and acting like that's the norm from the press.

I don't even watch the news much yet I have never heard Hillary's supporters described as such or denigrated - only from you because you've repeated it a few times now. hee see I always say you have to hear something 10 times for it to sink in. Maybe that will make you happy..that us folk out here that don't follow this mess so closely just aren't hearing that. But it's funny that you are feeling as marginalized about your vote as I've always felt about mine.

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But it's funny that you are feeling as marginalized about your vote as I've always felt about mine.

I think you are quite right there! A Floridian AND an older white woman! Heeeee!

Crap in the media - CNN is my home page. Hillary's headline blurbs are always demeaning. I used to get Huffington Post. Any day you care to go there, there is shit about Hillary. On the home page. I guess we just look at different stuff. That link I gave upthread was to the Washington Post, not some obscure media outlet. And late-night TV is full of Hillary slams.

Political threads in other boards - blue collar workers did not go to college, so they are deemed "uneducated" and there is the stated opinion that this is why they like Hillary. I admit I am prolly much too sensitive to that stuff, and I am not even a blue-collar worker.

But reading how the creative and rilly rilly smart people are turning out in droves for Obama just makes me think where were their asses four years ago, and also makes me feel like I am supposed to think Ooooh - smart creative people love Obama. So I should be like them. Maybe it is just that I am more aware of marketing crapola now, or something.

I do think a lot of the demographic poo that is being flung around is off-putting - I believe everybody likely belongs to so many "demographic groups" that they are becoming useless. And that has not seemed to help either candidate, since the popular vote is still so close. Like the supposed Claymate demographic, that stuff actually just pisses off people. Unless, being uneducated and all, they don't know how to read and don't watch the news on TV :-)

Like I said, I am not especially angry, just entirely put off. And worried that Obama and Hillary still have such close popular vote totals. I would be just as worried if Hillary had already been crowned.

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My hope is that Clinton takes her fight to the convention in August after Saturday's disgraceful R&B committee proceeding. For this party to allocate delegates based on exit polling data is undemocratic and defies its constitution.

Once again this election cycle, the Democratic party will put forth an elite, out of touch, left wing extreme ideologue who will be defined by the GOP as a radical against a national narrative of national security and trust in which the Reagan Democratics will flock to McCain, the flag bearing POW. Gotta love the Democratic party which I have supported my entire adult life....Good luck in November...

Axelrod is slick by implemeting a vile strategy of race-baiting in an effort to purge the Clintons and their constituency from the party. Good luck in November...

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Teddy Kennedy - terrible about the brain tumor. When I brought up Chappaquiddick, it was because Monica Lewinsky pales next to what happened there, but people use Monica as a test of character for Bill, and as a goad to poke at Hillary, but somehow Teddy has been canonized. A girl died. But somehow just having the name erases all, it depends on political expediency.

No doubt he has been canonized by some but for many others, his name is still synonymous with Chappaquiddick. You know, when he was 12, his oldest brother was killed in a plane crash, then JFK was murdered in in 1963, then Robert was murdered in 1968. Throughout all this tragedy, his father was frail, confined to a wheelchair as a result of a stroke a couple of years before JFK's assassination. Chappaquiddick happened in 1969, and his father died later that year. That's ALL the male members of his family gone. Teddy made a terrible, terrible mistake and not for one minute do I excuse him for it. But when you take in the big picture of the tragic circumstances of his life, I cannot help but feel compassion for this man. Then he had to deal with cancer striking 2 of his 3 children. I know there are still people who feel that his jail sentence suspension was due to the fact that he was a Kennedy and that was unfair, but you know, he really paid a higher price than many people who did go to jail. I don't have any illusions about the Kennedys, but to nail Teddy forever for Chappaquiddick would be like dismissing everything about Bill Clinton because of Monica. He got caught and had to suffer the humiliation. JFK died a saint in every way possible and even to this day I understand Caroline refuses to believe her dad cheated on her mom. (This was apparently a huge conflict between herself and JFK Jr)

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but to nail Teddy forever for Chappaquiddick would be like dismissing everything about Bill Clinton because of Monica. He got caught and had to suffer the humiliation.

No one was nailing Teddy publicly anyway, but Bill and Hillary will have Monica used against them forever. A friend of mine who worked for Hillary's campaign said that there were always some people in the front row of any gathering asking Hillary and/or Chelsea about Monica. They were there for that purpose only.

All of the Kennedy money came from bootlegging - I have often wondered if what happened to the Kennedy men was due to some sort of revenge or something. And frail old Pop Kennedy was quite blatant with his own affair with Gloria Swanson, so I guess they did not exactly have a good role model.

All moot now, of course, I look forward to not even thinking about politics again, in any way, shape, or form, for years, now. I'm out!

eta - quick research shows that the keystone of the Kennedy fortune was buying the Merchandise Mart in Chicago for relative peanuts - but that there was also bootlegging here and there, Mafia doings, and sharpish stock dealings. I personally believe there were Mafia ties, and that JFK's assassination was Mafia-caused, and not some Commie plot. I believe that the behind-the-scenes dealings were pretty appalling back then, but of course nothing in comparison to this administration's dealings. Makes Monica-gate look quite benign. A blow-job somehow has gotten worse than death. It is just political expediency.

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