#41: Clay Aiken Makes His Triumphant Return!

[djs111]

And then people have the nerve to say well he lied and focus on that. Don't see they bigger picture here. This guy has just done something so momentous that things could very well change peoples very thoughts and actions. I read somewhere that he is the first celebrity gay man, with a child, to ever come out! No cover, no beard just I am a father and I'm gay. He normalizes this. Even in his own home state he wouldn't be allowed to adopt that child. As he said there really was no option for him. Talk about courage!

That bears repeating.

A close friend of mine is gay, well, she says she is "whatever", it is the person she is attracted to, not the gender - and when she became pregnant from a short-lived relationship and had the baby, her own mother was outraged that a LESBIAN was raising that child, and actually tried to take the little girl from her. And worse, she called social services and implied the baby was being molested, because that is what lesbians do, ya know.

This is Florida, she thought she had a shot.

And then, trying to get what legal means there are available to protect her child (and the money she had inherited when her dad died) away from her mother, my friend hired some lesbian lawyers who were soliciting at a gay pride parade in Ft. Lauderdale. They wrote themselves into the will, they put themselves in the line of people who would get custody, with a nice chunk of change, if something happened. And got nasty when confronted and the will was invalidated.

Lesson learned for my friend - she honestly thought gay people would not take advantage of other gay people.

Heh, and THEN she was approached by a couple she knew who said they would be happy to adopt the child "temporarily" - to keep her out of the grandmother's clutches.

And THEN there was some law firm here in Florida that is trying to make a point about gay adoptions and really wanted for my friend's mother to try and adopt the child so they could make a big splash in court, fighting it. My friend was supposed to be the sacrificial poster girl, and it didn't matter much to them if she actually lost her child.

That is not a decision that should be made for another person.

This is not the plot of a Lifetime movie, it is happening all around us.

What Clay did was astoundingly matter-of-fact, and brave - because to the people who get ugly, a baby is not a diversion, it is a red flag. And from what I saw, he was saying I am a gay man, I have a child, I am happy. End of discussion.

None of Diane's business if he is dating. :-)

Or maybe she already knows and is being very un-reporterly.

rattboi was funny at times, but IMO was totally focused on Clay coming out so Clay could be a poster boy, which (again, IMO) was wishing to take Clay's choices about his own life away from him for others' use.

I have read here or elsewhere that Clay "self-identified" as soon as he knew he was gay.

Nope. Self-identify means that you get to choose how you identify yourself to others.

What sticker is on your shirt, in a world obsessed with the stickers.

Your choice. To others. It is a huge decision, and can result in abandonment and even some people wanting to kill you - why would anyone think they have a right to determine that for someone else? It changes a whole life.

Hell, I got pissy last night (no! Really! :-O) because my son and grandson put most of my desktop icons in a folder and changed my start-up file and my wallpaper. Without asking me or even telling me. Because they like to play World of Warcraft on it sometimes, and my stuff was annoying them. No, they don't want to use the separate accounts I set up, they feel they need admin capability.

I hatesssss anyone affecting my life in any way without asking first. And then, even if asked, I would likely ask them just who the fuck they thought they were.

Hmmmm....Anderson Cooper is cute and all, but his manner when reporting on John Edwards was so surprisingly like, say, Ryan Seacrest, that he really put me off.

Also don't think encouraging or allowing gay speculation on the boards would have changed the attitudes of the outraged people one little bit. Anyway, there are certainly boards that did encourage the speculation, I never understood the wish to change a board to suit one's self. Anyway, from what I have been reading, there are relatively few aghast people at OFC and like was said by the Raleigh Observer, most of Clay Nation just blinked and said oh, okay.

I'll be in a better mood later....I shouldn't read elsewhere before posting.

Heee....I keep hitting preview post, just to see that gorgeous banner pop up again. Not fair that Jaymes looks so young and radiant.

ETA that I was not trying to tell others what to think, but trying to explain what I think. If people think that expressing an opposing opinion is telling them they are wrong, then they need to go to Internet Boards 101.

[luckiest1]

rattboi was funny at times, but IMO was totally focused on Clay coming out so Clay could be a poster boy, which (again, IMO) was wishing to take Clay's choices about his own life away from him for others' use.

Hmmmm, I don't really remember him being that way, but it's been a few years, and my memory is not what it used to be. I think he was obviously pro-gay, but he respected people's right to self-identify. I think it would be interesting to go back and read those old CH threads now.

I have read here or elsewhere that Clay "self-identified" as soon as he knew he was gay.

Nope. Self-identify means that you get to choose how you identify yourself to others.

What sticker is on your shirt, in a world obsessed with the stickers.

Your choice. To others. It is a huge decision, and can result in abandonment and even some people wanting to kill you - why would anyone think they have a right to determine that for someone else? It changes a whole life.

Yep, people self-identify to others, at least that is what the term means to me, and how I use it. I think most closeted gay people are aware of their sexuality from an early age, they just don't choose to share it with others, or even live it. I knew at 16, and I told a few friends who tried to understand but really didn't. At that time, and in my little sheltered corner of the world, where I'd never met another gay person, I decided the only way I was going to have kids (and I desperately wanted to have them) was to get married, like everyone else did. Maybe I made the wrong choice, maybe my life would have been a whole hell of a lot different if I'd had the guts to say, you know what? I'm gay and proud and I'm gonna have kids in an unconventional way, damn it! But hey, that was the 70s, and even now, I don't know if I'd have the guts to do what Clay did. So I made the choice to stay in the closet (although my husband knew, I wasn't that dishonest, he just thought he could change me.) Whatever, it is what it is, people have to do what's comfortable or easy or right for them. We are all different, we all get by in our own way. But I will always believe that everyone should have the right to self-identify however they choose, for whatever reasons they choose. I am just glad that my life hasn't been put under the intense public media spotlight that Clay's has.

[lilyshine]

Anybody else out there really like our thread title in light of the more recent developments?

I know it was originally choosen to honor Spamalot, but .....

[djs111]

Hmmmm, I don't really remember him being that way, but it's been a few years, and my memory is not what it used to be. I think he was obviously pro-gay, but he respected people's right to self-identify. I think it would be interesting to go back and read those old CH threads now.

Wasn't in the threads, it was PMs and such. Sorry, I forgot that.

[muskifest]

Thank you, luckiest, for sharing this:

Yep, people self-identify to others, at least that is what the term means to me, and how I use it. I think most closeted gay people are aware of their sexuality from an early age, they just don't choose to share it with others, or even live it. I knew at 16, and I told a few friends who tried to understand but really didn't. At that time, and in my little sheltered corner of the world, where I'd never met another gay person, I decided the only way I was going to have kids (and I desperately wanted to have them) was to get married, like everyone else did. Maybe I made the wrong choice, maybe my life would have been a whole hell of a lot different if I'd had the guts to say, you know what? I'm gay and proud and I'm gonna have kids in an unconventional way, damn it! But hey, that was the 70s, and even now, I don't know if I'd have the guts to do what Clay did. So I made the choice to stay in the closet (although my husband knew, I wasn't that dishonest, he just thought he could change me.) Whatever, it is what it is, people have to do what's comfortable or easy or right for them. We are all different, we all get by in our own way [and I would add, "in our own time" to this!]. But I will always believe that everyone should have the right to self-identify however they choose, for whatever reasons they choose. I am just glad that my life hasn't been put under the intense public media spotlight that Clay's has.

Especially the parts I bolded.

I'm done with my own processing and so am---at least for myself----moving on. My own life is challenging enough, so that I really have no business (double meaning implied on purpose!) further dissecting and 'grading' Clay's decisions. As luckiest said above, "Whatever, it is what it is, people have to do what's comfortable or easy or right for them", and although the context of that statement was in reference to something else, it fits for my context here.

Clay has shown over and over and over just how very capable---and desirous---he is of taking care of himself. Yes, he has struggled, been sad and lonely, faced unfair odds, been both victimized and ignored, felt afraid of losing people and things dear to him and actually suffered those kinds of losses, succumbed to and triumphed over tragedies, and known what it is to succeed and to fail. He has, in short, been living his life.

Just as we have and must do. The man I've chosen to love and support is---well, still the man I chose to love and support five years ago. All his choices continue to confirm that for me, so really I have no worries about him. He is a lucky man--someone who can feel financially secure in a time where that's no small thing, a man who has both a close circle of family and friends who continue to prove that they're not going anywhere--that they will love and protect him by either their silence or their words, and an extended throng of strangers who are inexorably connected and included in that circle simply because...well, we love him.

He is blessed.

So I feel so very good about Clay--peaceful and excited about what's next, both for him and "us". And while all that's percolating, I have some very important things of my own to do in my own life, for my own family and friends and my job---and most vitally, for myself.

[luckiest1]

Well, I just did go back and reread some stuff from 2004 & 2005. Really interesting discussions back then. I pulled this one of mine out, written after reading some reviewer trash the JBT and use stereotypes to do it.

So, if Clay (hypothetically speaking, of course, becoss while I do take him at his word, I don't care one way or the other who he sleeps with), at some point in the future, came out as gay, would they shut the fuck up? I doubt it. Grrrrr, it pisses me off to no end. If you are straight and percieved as gay, you are ridiculed. If you are openly gay, you are (in present society) not afforded the same rights as straights, and still ridiculed. It is a no win situation. And, as ebird says, what the hell does any of this have to do with his music? It has no place in a concert review.

*takes a deep breath* Sorry, just had to get that out of my system.

Heh. The more things change the more they stay the same. I hope the jokes & the hoopla die down soon. I hear Leno did another one last night.

[ncgran4clay]

I think we definitely need to plan an FCA get together. Maybe lunch somewhere on Saturday before the gala? Or a dinner Friday night? Or a brunch Sunday? Hee, I'm easy.

I'm trying not to get my hopes up about Jaymes & Parker being at the gala, but you know....it's a possibility. Last year EVERYONE was there. Both Faye and Jaymes stopped by our table to chat (and we weren't even in THE dining room, the one where Clay was). This year I have heard there will only be one large dining room. YEAH.

Cam & I will be at the Gala & would love to get together with fans from here. Sunday brunch sounds

awesome. :013085001176249046:

[wandacleo]

JAMAR! You alright honey! Just watching ESPN news. Good Luck tomorrow!

It's interesting what I "see" now. There's a commercial running in California telling us to vote against gay marriage cuz they'll have rights like everybody else if you don't. BEWARE BEWARE. Sadly I will admit I never noticed it before. I'm trying to make myself feel better by saying maybe they just started it. Not sure about that though.

I wish you'd hold your nose and go post this at OFC.

[Claygasm]

Yup, I feel good about Clay too. Not worried about him, his career or even this fandom. This fandom has always had a flair for the dramatic and had its ups and downs and pontificators and religious zealots who have spent the last 5 years spewing their own verison of Christianity. Somehow it always works its way out. Some may leave, but I think there is always a certain amount of attrition in any fandom. This is no different.

I am ready to move on. Not suggesting anyone else do the same. Just me.

So I am curious. Other than a tour - because I think we all want to see that (although I have my doubts about the financial feasibility of it considering no one but us seems to know OMWH exists... ), what would you like to see career-wise for Clay in the coming year(s). I am talking specifics. A dream list because heaven knows we have no say in anything nor any right to tell him what to do! But we can dream!

I'll start.

I would like him to sing the theme song of an immensely popular movie because that is one way to get his glorious voice heard - and maybe even get some radio play. And, when the song is nominated for an Oscar, he would get to perform it in front of millions of people worldwide!

I would like some tie-in with Disney - maybe voicing an animated character. Disney's power should never be underestimated.

I would like to get him back in the studio soon - record another CD which actually gets planned, long-term promotion when its released. Maybe the theme song from the movie would be on it - sort of like "Breakaway" was with Kelly's album. That could really fuel sales - and again get him heard on the radio. And I want him to write another song or two. It may not be fair, but I do believe for him to ever get taken seriously as an artist in this industry, he has to write more of his songs. And if LAA is any example, he is also very, very talented in that regard - no matter what he may think.

My big dream is he gets at least one BIG radio single that is heard forever and I am not sure he will ever get it wthout the power of something like a big theme song or Disney (or both).

And I would like him to return to Broadway in a role where he would sing more (again, so more people can really hear his voice) and where he would originate the role. Of course, he would get great critical acclaim and win a Tony!

That should be enough for the next year or two.

Anyone else?

[FearofH2O]

I can do Sunday brunch if that works out best.

So I feel so very good about Clay--peaceful and excited about what's next, both for him and "us". And while all that's percolating, I have some very important things of my own to do in my own life, for my own family and friends and my job---and most vitally, for myself.

I'm with you on this muski.

CG, I'll take one movie theme song and raise you a new Christmas album. At least then he might get played on the radio.

[cindilu2]

I - and lordy I really hate being on this bandwagon - but I would love to see Ashes released as a single now (always thought it - just seems even more apropos now).

I would love a new Broadway role written just for him - but I'd like it to take at least a year (or two) because I'd really like to see him get out there on the road where 'all' of his fans get a chance to see him again - to renew their up-close-and-personal experience.

I'd still love an SNL hosting gig - and I really, truly believe he has a high enough profile for it. His coming out has sparked so much media interest - not just of the 'Oh he's GAY ha ha ha' variety either.

I'd love a prime-time (or PBS) live special - one where he could truly shine as he does on stage. I'd settle for a high-profile hosting gig. Just so long as they let him talk and be himself.

I'd love to see/hear him sing The Real Me in person (pretty please Clay).

I'd love a movie role - a supporting one - and on the dramatic side.

I'd love a song on a soundtrack of a successful movie - that's been my #1 wish for him since day one.

Heheh - this post brought to you by the letter "I"

[ldyjocelyn]

Not a lot of time for me to be posting...work is hell in a handbasket at the moment. But I'll try to answer CG's question, with a fairly simply answer. I never have dreamed all that "big" for him, and like he said in that interview, I don't seem to dream in specifics. The career plans that I'd like for him to have are those that make him happy. Pretty simple, eh?

Seriously, though...he still hasn't stopped talking about that talk show of his. I personally think this would be way cool; show off his vocal chops, show off his humor, show off his compassion, show off his smarts, show off his pants. And on a daily basis, no less!

I fluctuate on the radio single. I think it would be fantastic, but there are so many people who just don't listen there anymore. I think the movie song is a much better choice in that regard.

But for the most part...he's got so many choices for his career. The world truly is his oyster at this point. My opinion of that hasn't changed since last week either.

Oh, the songwriting thing. I think Jaymes may have something more to say about that now. *g*

[annabear]

As long as he's entertaining me, I'll be happy. I'm just along for the joyride.

[wandacleo]

I would love to see him in concert again.

Love to see him on the big screen (be still my heart!)

LOVE for him to have a talk show. I do so love to hear that Southern twang.

[Couch Tomato]

JAMAR! You alright honey! Just watching ESPN news. Good Luck tomorrow!

It's interesting what I "see" now. There's a commercial running in California telling us to vote against gay marriage cuz they'll have rights like everybody else if you don't. BEWARE BEWARE. Sadly I will admit I never noticed it before. I'm trying to make myself feel better by saying maybe they just started it. Not sure about that though.

I wish you'd hold your nose and go post this at OFC.

Well it's funny...but you don't have to actually read anything to post LOL.

I'd love a tour. And I'd love him to get more opportunities to showcase his skills - all of them.

Whatever opportunities present themselves but I am perfectly ok with Broadway being his destination if new roles open up for him there. He can be a broadway star that occassionally records an album for all I care. I just want him to be accepted with the people he works with and with consumers.

[luckiest1]

TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR

Barring that, I'd love more TV or a talk show or a Broadway show or a movie or anything really. Just more Clay, please.

[cha cha trusty]

Well, I said it a few days ago, but I don't think it would be impossible for him to record a TV Christmas Special while he's doing this Spam run. After all, last run he recorded an album didn't he??

I also heard that John Cleese is writing a musical version of "A Fish Called Wanda" - wouldn't it be cool for Clay to have a role in that?

eta: what day was it that we got the news? It's been more than a week hasn't it?

[atinal]

My dream for Clay, is that he start to get the respect he deserves for what ever he chooses to do. Too many critics, djs, talk show hosts, late night comics have been so focused on the sexuality issue that they have never been able to see past that. This man is one amazing talent and maybe people can put their biases aside and start to see that, and realize that's what the story should have always been about.

[annabear]

Amen, atinal. A-freaking-men.

[JennaZ]

Great dreams, all of them.

Although I would be happy as long as he is happy, the one thing I would like him to have is at least one song that becomes a classic, a signature song that everyone knows and associates exclusively with him.

Whatever happens, I'd just like the broader world to gain a better sense of his talent, even if he doesn't become a mega-superstar. I tend to believe that he's really just shown us the edge of his potential, and that he is capable of far more than anyone realizes. I hope that coming out will free him creatively, and inspire him in ways that will amaze us all.

[KAndre]

I don't think rattboi being totally focused on Clay's coming out, either on the boards or in PMs or personal emails - but I know we had a different take on what he was trying to say. He was very young and passionate though. A sweetie, through and through.

I'm a little pissed because I just got back from my podiatrist who wants me to have surgery on my foot. Again. On the 15th. And looked at me suspiciously. And I have no IDEA why. And anyone at Clay's concerts last year can just hush.

Aaaaand my orthopaedist wants me to have 4 frickin' weeks of physical therapy. Dammit. I'm tired of falling apart!

Feh on the song writing - it's never mattered to me. What I want is for Clay to hit a teensy club in Houston (hell, a teensy club anywhere that I know about), to try out new material. That's about it. Oh, and a kick ass tour of Brazil because I wanna go there next year. I don't listen to the radio, there isn't anything Disney has put out in years that interests me (High School Musical? Please.)

[HeidiHo]

Eh, I'm one of those crazy people who will be pleased with anything Clay decides to do as long as I get to see him do it. Heh.

Seriously though - no list from me. He should always only do what makes him (and Parker and Jaymes) happy.

[wandacleo]

I'm so pissed at the people picking on Clay for being gay that I went online and ordered 3 rainbow t-shirts to wear to Spamalot.

I sent an email to my friend telling her that I sure hope she doesn't mind that people will think we are a couple of old, fat lesbians.

[preden]

TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR TOUR

Barring that, I'd love more TV or a talk show or a Broadway show or a movie or anything really. Just more Clay, please.

I just can't wait to see clay in Jan, he's brought so much to my life, new friends and opportunites. I wish I was going to the Gala but I'll have to be patient and wait for Jan 1st.

[lilyshine]

I have a question about Disney and being gay. I know that years ago you couldn't be openly (or even loosely closeted) and gay and work with Disney. Has that changed? Are there "out" gay stars that work for Disney now? I don't follow it, so have no idea. :8: