#41: Clay Aiken Makes His Triumphant Return!

[wandacleo]

OMG Wanda I love you.........God is gay? :lmaosmiley-1:

Only you would post that. You know you are going to eternal damnation for that one!!!!!!!!!

So I'm being told.

[luckiest1]

How do gay fans feel reading this vile hate crap?????

I stopped reading a couple of days ago. Not worth it. Don't need it. Much happier ignoring it at this point.

I just find it incredibly sad. One of them has children. What would she do if one of them came out?

Yup, that's the thing that always gets me - the what if? I think it's the "it'll never happen to me" syndrome. Just those other folks. Unfortunately, I've seen the results of that kind of parenting, and it ain't pretty. My home has been a bit of a safe house for some of my daughter's gay friends, who have tried to come out to their parents and either been kicked out or emotionally and verbally abused by their parents. One mother told her son that if he was gay, she would kill herself. Can you even imagine what that kid was (and still is) going through?

So, while all you wonderful folks have been braving the wilds of the OFC (and I thank you for trying), I've been sitting here watching Unconditional Love. Kind of an offbeat, strange movie, but I loved it. Thanks to whoever recommended it! :F_05BL17blowkiss:

[jamar1700]

Oh well. Now I can exhale until next season.

---

I just think that some are using the no moderation period to post whatever vile little thought they have. It will be interesting to see what happens next...that's for sure.

[Cotton]

I wonder what Jerome's OFC name is and how many new pages have been added to his "list"?

I haven't been over to OFC today.

Felt like I needed a vacation!

[merrieeee]

I wonder what Jerome's OFC name is and how many new pages have been added to his "list"?

I haven't been over to OFC today.

Felt like I needed a vacation!

I bet I could give you a list of names it isn't*g*

[Scarlett]

I just went and read about 25 pages of the OFC and for some reason I'm not bothered by having to read the posts of some seriously misguided people, although there were many times when I was sorely tempted to start posting something along the lines of "God the Almighty and All-knowing has misplaced a cup?" *seriously, the way some posters are second-quessing God is just hilarious!* However, if these people exist in the world, I want to know who they are, how many they are and how they think. Also, reading their posts tells me that I'm in the real world and not some pretty picture drawn by a great publicist. I'm both happy and sad to hear the news about Cindi -- I know that she's great for Clay and will take good care of him; at the same time I'm sad that he needs one because learning about her also gave me an "oh, I can see things clearly now" feeling.

When something happens and I see everyone uniformly swooning over something or other, a part of me will wonder how much was real and how much was spin. I guess posters I know and trust who offer varying viewpoints help me know that this fandom is grounded. (Trolls, I still feel the same way about them as I did the other day except that I think they should be roasted before being boiled in hot oil)

Also, I got my reward for being patient through those 25 pages -- wanda's ROTFL post!!

[jmh123]

I was certainly guilty of indescretions in my youth. Who isn't/wasn't?

I surely was. Just as before, as far as Clay and his love life goes, I think we'll have some lies with a wee little truth sprinkled in, and each will decide for herself what to believe.

And another thing, since I'm on a roll, I think that often women (esp. middle aged ones- not us of course since I'm assuming that all you are mere slips of girls like me!!) are waaay more open minded than people (and the media) think.

You live a few years, life knocks the sharp edges off you. You can see the importance of things. Things like love and fairness and treating people decently.

I never had a problem with gay male fans, but you have admit, there wasn't much acceptance for them on the main Clay message boards. I sure hope there is now.

I think men typically don't fit into a Clay fan board, gay or straight. And it isn't just Clay's fandom either. It's tricky to get these two constituencies together.

And then people have the nerve to say well he lied and focus on that. Don't see they bigger picture here. This guy has just done something so momentous that things could very well change peoples very thoughts and actions. I read somewhere that he is the first celebrity gay man, with a child, to ever come out! No cover, no beard just I am a father and I'm gay. He normalizes this. Even in his own home state he wouldn't be allowed to adopt that child. As he said there really was no option for him. Talk about courage!

That bears repeating.

<snip>

This is not the plot of a Lifetime movie, it is happening all around us.

What Clay did was astoundingly matter-of-fact, and brave - because to the people who get ugly, a baby is not a diversion, it is a red flag. And from what I saw, he was saying I am a gay man, I have a child, I am happy. End of discussion.

None of Diane's business if he is dating. :-)

Or maybe she already knows and is being very un-reporterly.

<snip>

Hmmmm....Anderson Cooper is cute and all, but his manner when reporting on John Edwards was so surprisingly like, say, Ryan Seacrest, that he really put me off.

AC turned me off that night too.

Great post!!

I have read here or elsewhere that Clay "self-identified" as soon as he knew he was gay.

Nope. Self-identify means that you get to choose how you identify yourself to others.

What sticker is on your shirt, in a world obsessed with the stickers.

Your choice. To others. It is a huge decision, and can result in abandonment and even some people wanting to kill you - why would anyone think they have a right to determine that for someone else? It changes a whole life.

Yep, people self-identify to others, at least that is what the term means to me, and how I use it. I think most closeted gay people are aware of their sexuality from an early age, they just don't choose to share it with others, or even live it. I knew at 16, and I told a few friends who tried to understand but really didn't. At that time, and in my little sheltered corner of the world, where I'd never met another gay person, I decided the only way I was going to have kids (and I desperately wanted to have them) was to get married, like everyone else did. Maybe I made the wrong choice, maybe my life would have been a whole hell of a lot different if I'd had the guts to say, you know what? I'm gay and proud and I'm gonna have kids in an unconventional way, damn it! But hey, that was the 70s, and even now, I don't know if I'd have the guts to do what Clay did. So I made the choice to stay in the closet (although my husband knew, I wasn't that dishonest, he just thought he could change me.) Whatever, it is what it is, people have to do what's comfortable or easy or right for them. We are all different, we all get by in our own way. But I will always believe that everyone should have the right to self-identify however they choose, for whatever reasons they choose. I am just glad that my life hasn't been put under the intense public media spotlight that Clay's has.

I'm really appreciating your perspective, luckiest. I think there can be layers of being "out". Some people make being gay a big part of their identity, others are closeted, and a whole lot of folks are just gay, or bi, I think, without making it into a big deal, because it's just a part of who they are, not their whole identity. I think Clay was/is that kind of gay guy--someone for whom it wasn't central to his identity, but eventually the need to have love and family, plus being a public figure, have pushed him into this "coming out." I don't think he'll now become much different than he was, except for being more free, whatever that brings.

I just want him to be accepted with the people he works with and with consumers.

Me too. He's been picked on enough.

I love this!!! http://lbfca.diaryland.com/timesup.html

There's a quick catch-up post. I've enjoyed reading everyone's posts and I can't believe I'm actually caught up. Off tomorrow for Denver for a meeting, and I'll see Gibby tomorrow night. YAY!!! And when I come back I can catch up again.

I gotta say that I'm glad I've no time to read at the OFC.

[merrieeee]

I gotta say that I'm glad I've no time to read at the OFC.

The only great posts you are missing are wandacleo's.

The rest well it's all hogwash!

[Claygasm]

By the way... I LOVE FCA AND YOUSE GUYS EXCESSIVELY!!!!

YOUSE??? Where do you think you're from, Philly???

CG... your attitude around Parker frosted my tutu a bit, but your wonderful support of Clay and those who are struggling with this announcement made me glad you've stuck around through the disagreements... :F_05BL17blowkiss:

Awww. Thanks. Contrary to the rumors that are out there, I DO have a good side!

My last word... as we have noted several times, the man has titanium ones and I bet he passes them on to Parker! I just hope I get the occasional glimpse!

Ok, I have to think this came out wrong. You aren't talking about seeing Parker's titaniums, are you???? I mean, he's just a wee one! :o

[wandacleo]

I gotta say that I'm glad I've no time to read at the OFC.

The only great posts you are missing are wandacleo's.

The rest well it's all hogwash!

Except that I'm probably going to hell.

[FromClaygary]

I have a question about Disney and being gay. I know that years ago you couldn't be openly (or even loosely closeted) and gay and work with Disney. Has that changed? Are there "out" gay stars that work for Disney now? I don't follow it, so have no idea. :8:

I think Disney is quite "gay-friendly." My husband knows someone who refuses to take his children to Disneyland and will not allow them to watch the Disney Channel. Why? Two reasons. One, because apparently, they give benefits to the domestic partners of their gay employees. Also, because they permit gays and lesbians to come to Disneyland and Disneyworld on "Gay Day." (I could be wrong, but I don't think it's organized by Disney. I think it's an outside organization that just makes plans for people to show up on a certain day.)

Gosh, Jenna, no disrespect to you at all....but Disney ALLOWS gay people to come to Disneyland on "Gay Day"???? Well, whoop-dee-shit!! Last I saw, it's a free country!! To use a Wanda-ism....fuck them!! Sounds like they created a day to point and sneer!

Crap! That made me livid! Or had you guessed?

Yeah wanda it's one thing having issues but to taunt someone with Aspergers, Just downright...oh I think mean is a good word!

Uh-oh....is Kathy taking crap? How truly sad!

[wandacleo]

Uh-oh....is Kathy taking crap? How truly sad!

Oh, you have no idea. Aspie spilled her heart out and talked about how she was so afraid of going to hell for her sins and thought her brother and mother died because of her sins but that she found some comfort in the fact that God loved David, even though he sinned--and this raging evil bitch posted that David's son died because of David's sins so there are consequences for sinning.

CAN YOU IMAGINE???? I'd have reached right through the computer and choked that bitch if I could have.

My God, and she said this in the name of the Lord.

[Couch Tomato]

In addition to the Jaymes chronicles I apparantly need the wandacleo chronicles.Can someone put me on the mailing list please

[keepingfaith]

I get this picture in my head of Clay being appalled at what has been written over there! He is better off without people like that.

And now if they would actually fucking LEAVE!! Dear lord - they are the sick ones.

I wonder what Jerome's OFC name is and how many new pages have been added to his "list"?

I gave up reading it on Saturday morning. I'm just not equipped to be flogged by ignorance. It's a waste of my time. They do have me praying though, praying that Clay will purge the OFC next week.

[merrieeee]

I gotta say that I'm glad I've no time to read at the OFC.

The only great posts you are missing are wandacleo's.

The rest well it's all hogwash!

Except that I'm probably going to hell.

Ha no probably about it. When you suggested that God was gay because he hung around with guys and Eve was an afterthought I thought Iwas going to lose it.

Oh god now the posts by that one woman has just gone out in left field, She's posting an article that equates gay with pedophelia by some nutjob from an organization called NARTH! She is the one that is sick I tell you.

[Claygasm]

I have a question about Disney and being gay. I know that years ago you couldn't be openly (or even loosely closeted) and gay and work with Disney. Has that changed? Are there "out" gay stars that work for Disney now? I don't follow it, so have no idea. :8:

I think Disney is quite "gay-friendly." My husband knows someone who refuses to take his children to Disneyland and will not allow them to watch the Disney Channel. Why? Two reasons. One, because apparently, they give benefits to the domestic partners of their gay employees. Also, because they permit gays and lesbians to come to Disneyland and Disneyworld on "Gay Day." (I could be wrong, but I don't think it's organized by Disney. I think it's an outside organization that just makes plans for people to show up on a certain day.)

Gosh, Jenna, no disrespect to you at all....but Disney ALLOWS gay people to come to Disneyland on "Gay Day"???? Well, whoop-dee-shit!! Last I saw, it's a free country!! To use a Wanda-ism....fuck them!! Sounds like they created a day to point and sneer!

Crap! That made me livid! Or had you guessed?

I'm not Jenna, but I think you may have read it wrong. Its not that they only allow gay people to come on "Gay Day". The Disney theme parks have whole Gay Days - planned days at these family friendly parks where gays and lesbians go and have fun. Its an event, they have an Expo and everything. See: http://www.gaydays.com/. Its a really big deal.

I think it took tremendous courage for a company known as family friendly and somewhat conservative to do this at the risk of the wrath of many of their long time narrow-minded patrons and I salute them.

[keepingfaith]

ausdon, your post made me think of something my 29-year old son said to me last week. He asked me how the fans on the board are taking the news about Clay and I told him that the fans are overwhelmingly supportive, with a fringe group of religious zealots trying to wreak havoc. I said that while some of the media portrays Clay's fans as narrow minded and homophobic, that in my experience they are open-minded, intelligent and progressive. He said, "Aren't Clay's fans mostly women? And aren't most women open-minded, intelligent and progressive?"

[JennaZ]

I think Disney is quite "gay-friendly." My husband knows someone who refuses to take his children to Disneyland and will not allow them to watch the Disney Channel. Why? Two reasons. One, because apparently, they give benefits to the domestic partners of their gay employees. Also, because they permit gays and lesbians to come to Disneyland and Disneyworld on "Gay Day." (I could be wrong, but I don't think it's organized by Disney. I think it's an outside organization that just makes plans for people to show up on a certain day.)

Gosh, Jenna, no disrespect to you at all....but Disney ALLOWS gay people to come to Disneyland on "Gay Day"???? Well, whoop-dee-shit!! Last I saw, it's a free country!! To use a Wanda-ism....fuck them!! Sounds like they created a day to point and sneer!

Crap! That made me livid! Or had you guessed?

Just to clarify. Gay people are always allowed into the park. "Gay Day" is an event organized by a gay organization in which 40,000-50,000 gay people meet at the theme park, wearing red Gay Day t-shirts. It is NOT a "point and sneer" event. However, the fact that it happens in the park is enough to cause some intolerant conservatives to boycott Disney.

As I said, Disney also provides benefits to the domestic partners of gay employees. As far as I know, that does not happen at every company and it's certainly not required by law. I'm not saying Disney is the champion of gay rights. However, I don't think they particularly anti-gay, either.

ETA: Or what Claygasm said. Thanks!

[preden]

I don't know how many times I've watched the GMA video from day 2 (Clay talking about Parker), but I JUST noticed that we get a glimpse of Raleigh or Durham at about 3:23. Happens while Jaymes is in the hammock swing and you can see the dog. I'm a dog lover and I'm amazed I didn't see Raleigh/Durham, until now. Guess I was watching something else....like a cute baby!

Thanks for making me notice the dog, hadn't seen him there.

[liney23]

ausdon, your post made me think of something my 29-year old son said to me last week. He asked me how the fans on the board are taking the news about Clay and I told him that the fans are overwhelmingly supportive, with a fringe group of religious zealots trying to wreak havoc. I said that while some of the media portrays Clay's fans as narrow minded and homophobic, that in my experience they are open-minded, intelligent and progressive. He said, "Aren't Clay's fans mostly women? And aren't most women open-minded, intelligent and progressive?"

keeping... I like your son!!! :F_05BL17blowkiss:

Clay... two weeks will drive most of us to drink... could you lower that to.... like tomorrow!!!

[merrieeee]

I've go to remain calm...I've go to remain calm. I have been reading the thread over there trying to figure these people out and be supportive for those genuinely trying to come to terms with it. I did not want it to deteriate to the lowest level and know that that was all Clay was going to read,but I just cannot stomach a couple of them and it is only a couple. If you think the guy is a pervert and beyond then leave. It's not trying to be understanding it is hate pure and simple! I cannot understand anyone who is a "true" christian doing that. What a warped sense of religion you have.

[Scarlett]

wanda, how about posting A Letter to Louise in-line instead of as a link?

*give merrieeee a virtual backrub*

[wandacleo]

wanda, how about posting A Letter to Louise in-line instead of as a link?

*give merrieeee a virtual backrub*

Because it's about 10 pages long!!!

Do you think I SHOULD??

[keepingfaith]

I've go to remain calm...I've go to remain calm. I have been reading the thread over there trying to figure these people out and be supportive for those genuinely trying to come to terms with it. I did not want it to deteriate to the lowest level and know that that was all Clay was going to read,but I just cannot stomach a couple of them and it is only a couple. If you think the guy is a pervert and beyond then leave. It's not trying to be understanding it is hate pure and simple! I cannot understand anyone who is a "true" christian doing that. What a warped sense of religion you have.

Can 'em and ban 'em. Defang the pit vipers from hell!

************

The Disney thing vaguely reminds me of the campaign by the Christian Coalition or the Moral Majority or one of those Ralph Reed / Jerry Falwell oufits to have certain scenes removed from Lion King and Aladdin -- the smoke spelling out S-E-X and stuff like that. I don't remember the details, but there were Baptist boycotts and such nonsense over it that I think Disney Corp. finally said, SCREW YOU, we'll have GAY DAY now.

[Scarlett]

wanda, how about posting A Letter to Louise in-line instead of as a link?

*give merrieeee a virtual backrub*

Because it's about 10 pages long!!!

Do you think I SHOULD??

Why not? If we have to slog through those pages and pages of quoted stuff...