#42: We're still having fun, and you're still the one!

[cindilu2]

play, I am not saying the 'new' posters who are just getting up their nerve should be runn off and/or shot. I am saying that all the 'arguments' that could possibly help these people have been covered. If indeed the thread is about support - then that's what it should be about. And there are plenty of people still offering that. But that's not what it is, at least not any more. What I really, REALLY don't understand is why people want to argue 'against' supporting him. When people post and try to help those struggling to understand, the same few people come in and give them reasons NOT to. I do not understand that. Arguing against forgiveness (hate that word - we don't have the right or the reason to grant him forgiveness) or compassion or even understanding. If you (the generic 'you') need support in your decision NOT to be a fan anymore - well I'm sorry - I don't understand that. I don't sympathize with it and I certainly can't empathize with it. I respect the right to do it - and I might even respect the person - if they JUST WENT AWAY. If it's only about your 'friendships' - well that's what email and telephones are for. A fan board of a person you 'used to' admire isn't the place for it.

Who (or what) is a Michael Musto? Do I want to know?

[djs111]

Who (or what) is a Michael Musto? Do I want to know?

Nah.

Just a dyspeptic columnist who has a bully pulpit.

[luckiest1]

That was me! Yay! Now there are TWO people who have seen it!

Seriously, the first time I saw that movie, on TV, I kept watching it because I lurve Kathy Bates.

I don't love her in the I'd-seriously-explore-my-sexuality-assumptions-about-myself- if-offered-an-opportunity way that I lurve Emma Thompson, but I do love Kathy. IMO she should have gotten the Oscar for that Jack Nicholson movie she was in where she was naked in the hot tub with him. I wish I had that self-assurance. Even if it was only for a movie.

Anyway, the movie's plot is VERY interesting and funny and sad, but now I am thinking - perhaps not so much outlandish, and I recommend it not as a ponderous educational thingy, but as a real hoot.

Exactly! It was a fun watch, and some parts made me laugh out loud. Especially the cameo appearance near the end. Anyone who does torrents and needs me to point them in the right direction, PM me. I couldn't get away from the Spanish audio overdub, but I managed to play with the settings in WMP enough that I basically muted it and brought the English over top of it.

[liney23]

Okay...so evidently Lance Bass included a full-on kiss with his dance partner during a dance.

I'm TOTALLY going to lose a shitload of weight and start dance classes and become a professional dancer in time for Clay becoming a contestant on DWTS. I'm soooo going to be his dance partner and do all those sexay Latin bump and grind, groove and move, gyrate and rotate stuff with him and then I'll bribe the choreographer with lots of free sex so that he/she (I'm an equal opportunity briber ) will design a routine where Clay must give ME a full-on kiss, too!

But see ...y'all will benefit, too, even though it won't be YOUR lips being devoured by those pink-shelled beauties. 'Coss you'll be able to see the effect of Muski's smooches on our man in THE PANTS! THE PANTS! (Just think: Rhode Island YGAF.... )

muski.... I am wishing you lots of luck in this endevour!!! Let me know how it turns out! I've lost 28 pounds, so I'm at least started in the right direction.... now for dance lessons!

(((play)))

At this point I think what made this revelation so difficult for some is that we have been made to be defensive about his sexuality for so long. That is not Clay's fault nor is it ours...its the fault of the asshats that think its ok to make fun of an effeminate man...its the fault of those asshats that felt it was their duty to drag Clay out of the closet before he was ready...it was the fault of all those people that suggest we are crazy to go nuts about a gay man... That is what made a lot of fans hold on to every scrap of evidence that he is straight. Lots of fans held on to this trust like a talisman against all the proof or clues of his sexuality. When they were proven to be wrong against all these asshats...it shook them to the core...it tested their perception of their judgement. I believe for these fans...we need to be patient and understanding. I hope they will be able to resolve this conflict and continue to enjoy Clay...

For those that prove themselves to be homophobic...I hope they eventually leave...

so another busy day ahead... :F_05BL17blowkiss:

ansa... this point is so right on... thank you!

Gibby... thanks for all those pictures!!! Talk about the man of a thousand faces! All of them excessively handsome... well, almost all of them!

I know some don't like his glasses and I must admit I usually don't, but I thought his look on GMA and the People spread was VERY nice. He looked gorgeous!

Back to work... ugh! I haven't taken such a long vacation in years and I had forgotten how hard it is to get back into harness after 2 weeks away. See ya' at lunchtime! :F_05BL17blowkiss:

[Cotton]

I don't want to be unkind, but I did notice among the recent SPAM recaps, a recap from Nikki (claysbabygirl). Just want those who aren't CV members to know that she has been known to use sad stories, etc, to "acquire" tix, etc, and has a history of not paying people back etc.

And has of late been sitting with FBM and HD.

Just didn't want anyone caught unawares.

[Couch Tomato]

Cindilu it's always been like that. People need support in their feelings about Clay so they will stay until till trying to convince others to feel the same. That's the point of long ass lists and investigations.

Funny I ignored the OFC after day one but saw that same kind of thing on ABC comments section. So these people even when they go away, will not be going away. I think there will be a new group of hater fans out there and that's just how it goes in Clay Nation. Clay Aiken is the gift that keeps on taking hits.

Ansa - good points.

And maybe it does no good ..but the thought of Clay's own fan board being abandoned to the trolls makes me mad. So I'm frankly glad there are people still there with points of view that I agree with Hopefully in another week sanity BWAH will rule the day once more.

Anyway, happy Tuesday.

ETA: And I was all drippy wet in the shower when I realized...it's' not damn Tuesday. LOL DJS even better than hump day? It's PAY DAY. Whoo hooo.Maybe I can squeeze out another spam ticket heh.

[djs111]

Anyway, happy Tuesday.

Heeee, I actually checked first - it is Wednesday!

Hump day! :-)

(edited because old TwoP dictates die hard - saying "Um" could get ya banned!)

[KAndre]

Incorrect or not, I don't wanna hang around people I don't like. I either leave or they do. I am definitely not Clay. I don't think anyone is looking for the "perfect" fan - but I see no reason to put up with assholes, whether in real life or on the 'net. Life is too short for me. People struggling? OK, but again I tend to have a little amount of sympathy in the first place, and it gets smaller when all the requests for understanding seem to be one-sided...

pokes Scarlett with a stick over her "experiment"...

Somebody who remembers elementary school math - what's the formula for sequential doubling for a finite series? You know: 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64...

I ended up having to stick it in excel as "Sum (A1:A30) where A2, A3 etc =[previous cell]* 2". I know perfectly well there's a single formula for the damn thing and it's not the fricking Fibonacci numbers (though I couldn't actually remember the formula for that either)...

ETA:

Dang, I'm an idiot. As soon as I saw the series, I remembered: ((2 to the power of n) - 1) because I don't know how to do superscripts on the freakin' board. Bunch of people in the office with advanced degrees and we couldn't remember it. Stupid brain cells!

[muskifest]

Incorrect or not, I don't wanna hang around people I don't like. I either leave or they do. I am definitely not Clay. I don't think anyone is looking for the "perfect" fan - but I see no reason to put up with assholes, whether in real life or on the 'net. Life is too short for me. People struggling? OK, but again I tend to have a little amount of sympathy in the first place, and it gets smaller when all the requests for understanding seem to be one-sided...

pokes Scarlett with a stick over her "experiment"...

Somebody who remembers elementary school math - what's the formula for sequential doubling for a finite series? You know: 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64...

I ended up having to stick it in excel as "Sum (A1:A30) where A2, A3 etc =[previous cell]* 2". I know perfectly well there's a single formula for the damn thing and it's not the fricking Fibonacci numbers (though I couldn't actually remember the formula for that either)...

ETA:

Dang, I'm an idiot. As soon as I saw the series, I remembered: ((2 to the power of n) - 1) because I don't know how to do superscripts on the freakin' board. Bunch of people in the office with advanced degrees and we couldn't remember it. Stupid brain cells!

I used to teach high school English.

[muskifest]

Successful people live well, laugh often, and love much. They've filled a niche and acomplished tasks so as to leave the world better than they found it, while looking for the best in others and giving the best they have.

Ralph Waldo Emerson

How many people can honestly say they are successful, using Emerson's criteria? Clay can.

Oh! I just realized that Emerson and Aiken have something else in common!

Waldo!

[Couch Tomato]

I wanted to say one more thing about the OFC. Scarlett, I don't feel superior. It has nothing to do with superiority. Free speech gets to be applied to all. If someone is going to express hateful points of views those views have a right to be countered. The fact that emotion is involved just means people care. It would be nice if we could all be rational but that's hard to do when someone you love is being kicked in the teeth. And in the end, the only thing IMO the free for all accomplishes is letting me know who to avoid at the next Clay concert. I have already said that my intolerance for some of this is judgemental on my part. I know my faults. But I wonder if the people who are spouting words like abomination do. Yeah it would be nice to cut them a break for a week, or two or forever. But who is going to cut Clay a break.

[claytonic]

I used to teach high school English.

This was in the news today...

MONASH University will teach its first-year students grammar and punctuation after discovering that most arrive without basic English skills.

Baden Eunson, lecturer at the university's School of English, Communications and Performance Studies, and convenor of the new course, said about

90 per cent of his first-year students could not identify a noun.

"If you ask them to identify adjectives and other parts of a sentence, only about 1 per cent can manage," he said, according to The Australian.

"It is not really a surprise as only about 20 per cent of English teachers understand basic grammar."

continued.....

I don't know how these kids graduated from high school.

[ldyjocelyn]

From last night -- some serious sexy...but I'm curious about the shirt! LOL

[00lsee]

'scuze me...I think I swallowed my tongue.

[KAndre]

I'm with Couchie - the thread at the OFC is adding substantially to the list of "avoid on pain of death in any circumstances".

claytonic, frankly probably what saved a number of people in my generation was "Schoolhouse Rock".

[small, teeny, tiny voice] I remember singing "Interjections" to myself for a test...in college. [sv]

Man, I hated English.

Math good.

[muskifest]

I don't know how these kids graduated from high school.

Oh, I do. As a first year teacher I had to appear before the school board when I refused to change a 'senior' student's final grade from an F to a D when the superintendent 'asked' me to. How dare I! After all, the student had only missed 42 days of school, had never come to class prepared, couldn't write a paragraph with punctuation, and the only tests he ever passed were the rare multiple choice ones I gave (versus writing answers). I'd only asked for parent/counselor conferences multiple times throughout the year and had only asked twice for help directly from my principal. I'd merely offered many times to stay after school with the student to help. I'd obviously not done enough, even after going to the elementary school to talk with some of his previous teachers to get some insight and some resources for him.

But see...it LOOKS bad statistically when students don't 'graduate'. Bad for the school, the principal, the district. And after all, who the hell did I think I was? A first year teacher questioning the system? So they decided to 'show' me! Basically, I 'went to court'---the school board as my judge and jury. The STUDENT was not being asked to defend himself. Eleven years of his previous teachers who'd passed him to the next level each year weren't being asked to explain themselves. I was required to justify why I felt it necessary to deprive him of the right to walk down the aisle to collect his diploma 'with his friends'--why I felt it was my right to do so in my first year of teaching, in his last year of school, after eleven years of educators before me felt it appropriate to pass him.

Oh...believe me, I know how kids like that graduate. And as I ride the public bus and see some of the signs on storefronts, the articles written online and in print---even on the television screen, I know functional illiteracy is still a problem. [/rantonthestateofeducationtoday]

Clay content? My boyfriend is sooooooo intelligent. and

[Lotus]

Before heading out to exercise class posting so that I can grab the latest Clay picture.

Last night I posted late and my post was sandwiched between two sets of gorgeous mouth watering photos of Clay so I don't know if anyone noticed.

Could someone answer my question about the gang of 3. please?

Dammit...the avatar change didn't work! poop!

[00lsee]

Go, muski! Conjunction, junction, what's your function! LOL

[keepingfaith]

I celebrate the news that there are fans who are struggling and seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. Hooray for stretching and growing and learning. A friend of mine here at the school stuck her head in the door yesterday and said, "I saw the news about your boy at Walmart last night." I asked her if she'd read the article and she said no, but she'd like to. So I handed her a copy of People that I had in the drawer. She brought it back this morning and said she was so impressed with the article, and with his candor and how he explained things -- that she had learned a lot from what he said and really admires him now.

I can admire the OFC helpers, but I was done with that scene when I came here in March 2007. I spent an intense 2006 as a new fan arguing for sanity and common sense at OFC -- and it was losing battle against an armed front of conspiracy theorists with toxic inside (Not!) information. LCV, Clayzorback, lightmyfire were valiant in efforts to be the voice of reason and support Clay without scapegoats and evil-doers and cryptkeepers, but you can only take a finite amount of head-banging against brick walls before it hurts horribly. I'm pain-free now, and plan to stay that way.

Maybe purge is the wrong word for what I'd like to see at OFC. Perhaps the surgical removal of a couple of malignant tumors would be more accurate.

FYI: What I know about Michael Musto is that he's a middle-aged, too-clever-by-half columnist for the Village Voice, openly gay and cynical to the core. I've seen him a few times on Olbermann. Is he speaking out about Clay? He's been derisive of him in the past.

[wandacleo]

I wanted to say one more thing about the OFC. Scarlett, I don't feel superior. It has nothing to do with superiority. Free speech gets to be applied to all. If someone is going to express hateful points of views those views have a right to be countered. The fact that emotion is involved just means people care. It would be nice if we could all be rational but that's hard to do when someone you love is being kicked in the teeth. And in the end, the only thing IMO the free for all accomplishes is letting me know who to avoid at the next Clay concert. I have already said that my intolerance for some of this is judgemental on my part. I know my faults. But I wonder if the people who are spouting words like abomination do. Yeah it would be nice to cut them a break for a week, or two or forever. But who is going to cut Clay a break.

That's exactly how I feel. Aside from the fact that those calling Clay an abomination are also aiming this at all his gay fans and gay family members. It should be enough to say that their religious beliefs preclude associating with gays. That's understandable--people have used the same arguments to preclude associating with Jews and ethnic minorities for years. It explains exactly where a person is coming from.

However, just because someone can find scripture to support prejudice doesn't mean that those with different beliefs should just accept those beliefs as valid. Hindus used to (and in villages STILL sometime) marry child brides. Do we say that's ok just because it's part of a religion? Genital mutilation is done on girls in huge areas of the world. Do we say that's ok because it's part of their belief system? Fundamentalist Muslims blow themselves up to attain glory (and virgins). Do we say that's ok?

I don't think we should draw a line in front of gay bashing and say--OK, that's your belief. It's ok.

[Cotton]

Somebody who remembers elementary school math - what's the formula for sequential doubling for a finite series? You know: 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64...

I ended up having to stick it in excel as "Sum (A1:A30) where A2, A3 etc =[previous cell]* 2". I know perfectly well there's a single formula for the damn thing and it's not the fricking Fibonacci numbers (though I couldn't actually remember the formula for that either)...

ETA:

Dang, I'm an idiot. As soon as I saw the series, I remembered: ((2 to the power of n) - 1) because I don't know how to do superscripts on the freakin' board. Bunch of people in the office with advanced degrees and we couldn't remember it. Stupid brain cells!

I used to teach high school English.

Ack!

That's elementary school math?!

I majored in English, too.

I dunno WTH you talkin' 'bout!!!

Is he planning on carrying Parker around in that shirt??!!

That close up is gorgeous, though! The EYES!!!

I watched both GMA's again today.

I love his laughter.

And - has nobody mentioned that (nearly out of the frame and I wish the camera had gotten it!) Clay makes finger quotation marks when he says, those who "knew" it?!

[JennaZ]

Muski, I feel your pain. I was a TA at a good liberal arts college, and I was appalled at the quality of some of the writing. I was stunned that so many students were unable to construct a simple, coherent paragraph. My husband is a high school history teacher, and he and his colleagues are being pressured not to give zeros for work that is not turned in. Administrators feel that a zero sinks their gpa's, resulting in too many failures. But why should they get credit for doing nothing! Some of these kids just don't even try. In the real world, if you don't do your work, you suffer consequences. Children need to learn that, but too many administrators just care about graduations.

[luckiest1]

Yep, those finger quotations have been mentioned to me, too.

I was listening to some of ATDW this morning. Everything I Have is quite something to listen to. And I was thinking about how he specifically mentioned the 2nd anniversary of ATDW in that Sep 19th blog. At the time I just thought "cool!" cuz I love the album. But now I wonder if it was more a mention of there being a thousand different ways to love someone, like he used to talk about in that go round of promotion. And then he told us he'd be forever, forever in love with us.

[HeidiHo]

FYI: What I know about Michael Musto is that he's a middle-aged, too-clever-by-half columnist for the Village Voice, openly gay and cynical to the core. I've seen him a few times on Olbermann. Is he speaking out about Clay? He's been derisive of him in the past.

As far as I’ve been able to tell, he hasn’t been on Olbermann in quite a while. Last time I saw him on there, Keith wasn’t very amused. Who knows? Of course, that spot in the show is now taken by Rachel Maddow (who I have a crush on <g>). It seems like Keith hasn’t done any entertainment in quite a while – well besides the whole Palin thing and the David Letterman thing. <g>

I have lust for Derek Hough (his body really moves WELL) and I’m really starting to like Lance Bass, who I never really cared for before. He seems like a funny guy. And yeah, the full on kiss was rather hot. But he made it funny by whipping out the chapstick immediately afterward and grinning at the camera. <g>

That close up of Clay from last night is HOT. Dang.

[preden]

Yep, those finger quotations have been mentioned to me, too.

I was listening to some of ATDW this morning. Everything I Have is quite something to listen to. And I was thinking about how he specifically mentioned the 2nd anniversary of ATDW in that Sep 19th blog. At the time I just thought "cool!" cuz I love the album. But now I wonder if it was more a mention of there being a thousand different ways to love someone, like he used to talk about in that go round of promotion. And then he told us he'd be forever, forever in love with us.

Funny how we don't see things till someone mentions it, like the dog in gma video, didn't at all see him until someone made me notice and the finger quotations. I guess I was focusing on someone else, lol.