#44: We think we'll keep him!!!!

[liney23]

Well, if you want to fight with people about this over and over, you too can watch the fan base just disappear. It seems like only perfect people should be allowed to stay for some.

What amazes me is the ignorance on both sides where no one is listening to what the others say. This whole issue seems to ignite into unreasonable and angry posts, for what? Most people agree on the whole but have little minor differences and apparently they rankle so, that people would just as soon end Clay's career by fighting amongst themselves, rather than just let it go? Trust me ignorance is rampant on both sides. Like people who think they will get a tour after they drive out most of the fans. And this fighting is going to be so attractive that there will be new fans, or will they just turn around and leave? Clay's last blog got 130 replies - fewer and fewer all the time, maybe if you throw out a few more fans, you can be the only reply.

I was coming to post something that would make people happy, but forget that, I have already been judged by a few here and don't need to go through all that crap again. Sorry I even tried.

Play... don't know to what this refers, but I'm sorry you feel judged. tain't me, so I would love to hear your happy news, please. You are a valuable member of this fandom who is always willing to do a favor and I have missed you and Holly tales over here.

[wandacleo]

Cheery note--Spamalot made $729,679 last week (up from $422,332 the week before). The fans were clearly there for our man's BD!

[KAndre]

One of the joys of being me is that I see no reason to get along just for the sake of getting along. I am picky with whom I associate, and I don't see the reasons I choose to disagree with someone as being ignorant, and there is just some shit I will not put up with. I personally don't want to hang around unpleasant people and I personally find intolerance unpleasant. And I'm not going to make myself miserable in the hope that I am in charge of Clay's fan base. At a certain point, people need to own their reactions. There are members of the fandom I don't care for...I went somewhere else. Didn't leave the fandom. There is not a Prince fan in the entire freakin' world that has one iota of effect on me. And I've been a fan of Prince for more that 30 years. The Clay fandom as a whole, is probably a lot less influenced by individuals than you think.

You feel someone has judged you erroneously? Then call 'em out. But don't whack the innocent for the hell of it, or try to make them feel guilty for stuff they didn't do.

[Bella19]

Bella, it's not charcoal, it's baked-on cheese, tomatoes, olives; would that still work? You know what cheese is like when it's cooked on.

Sorry! I thought the aforementioned toppings had already turned into charcoal, like stuff has done at my house before. If you scrape most of it off, the baking soda is still a safe bet to get rid of the rest of the stuff. I hope it works well for you.

aikim - Unlike most kids, when my girls were little (they're now 24 and 19) the Wizard of Oz never freaked them out. If it was on, they'd want to watch it, flying monkeys or not. I don't have enough to do a whole tree, but my Beauty and the Beast ornaments are on my family room tree. I've got a decent collection of other B&B stuff too.

I've pretty much stopped going to most of the other sites I used to frequent, so I have *no* idea if there's drama going on anywhere else right now. The one person I know who had an exchange of words with Jaymes on the OFC told me she's not a fan anymore and has stopped reading and posting on the boards. I have to respect the fact that once her feelings changed, she moved on.

[Couch Tomato]

Well I have an opinion. I think Clay is too happy. People didn't get to see his struggle or journey. I honestly feel had Clay cried on national tv and acted out his struggle, he would have gotten more understanding from his fans. I for one am glad he didn't do that. I love that we got confident gay man. And honestly I'm with K in that I just am not going to pretend to care about people still struggling. A fresh air needs to blow through this fandom and yeah I include myself in the moldy oldies. It needs an infusion of new blood and not this incestuous stuff we have going on now. And guess what - we the fans...we ain't the ones who will bring in those people. It's Clay.

ETA: LOL why am I talking about this... bwah geeze..

[cindilu2]

Oh is there trouble in the paradise that is this fandom??

Who cares!! Look at this face!! Does anything else really matter??

Amen!

I love Clay Aiken and being a fan of Clay Aiken more than is probably reasonable - and I don't reply to all the blogs. I believe there was a measure of attrition when the not-an-annnouncement came - but I don't believe it's that big a number. I think the boards have definitely slowed down, but based on my own personal experience (and of most of the people I know who are fans) that does not mean any less enthusiasm or support for Clay Aiken - it does mean that the boards have just become a less enjoyable way to share him. It's not Clay who has created that atmosphere. Yes, only Clay can bring new fans to his real-world base - and I believe will. But it's only US who can make the online portion of the fandom a fun, enjoyable place to be - and I fear that day has passed. But I will be a fan of Clay Aiken for as long as he's in the public eye. Forever, forever, ya know?

[saltwaterdog]

A fun surprise:

I just turned on The O'Reilly Factor (which I hardly ever watch) and there was Clay! There were doing an Idols' quiz and he was in the first question and they showed a nice clip from Idol. It's about five or ten minutes from the end of the show.

[ldyjocelyn]

And guess what - we the fans...we ain't the ones who will bring in those people. It's Clay.

Thank you couchie. I've read around a bit today (BAD LDYJ! BAD!!), and I've seen it said that the fans will drive other fans away from Clay. But, to me, it gives way too much power to the fans, and not nearly enough power to Clay's talent and ability. Sure, there are bullies in this fandom -- but as Clay did in his life, ignoring them seems to work best (as well as not taking them personally). As the old saying goes, don't let the turkeys get you down. And I have every faith that Clay's voice and humor will keep fans coming to his shows and seeking out his music. Granted, they may not be nearly as invested as those who spend time on message boards (and I count myself as one of those "invested"), but they will find out about him. muski is right, TC will figure out a way to get Clay into the public conscious, and he'll be fine.

This whole "lying about lying about lying about lying about lying" thing really says to me that some aren't interested in looking inward at themselves. I feel that many of these people really do love Clay -- and they can't reconcile this "lie" that he's told, so they are having a tough time. But, after 2 and a half months and a blog from Clay that pretty much (to me) explained that he ain't gonna apologize, these people have a choice to make. It's either continue to follow Clay but compromise their feelings about this "lie," or stop being a fan. (JMO, of course). The way I see it, some need to make that decision, but are unwilling to do it. IMO, this choice could be tough, but it can be done, and change can be good.

I have more I want to say, but I can't figure out the best way to word it. Maybe, more later.

[annabear]

A fun surprise:

I just turned on The O'Reilly Factor (which I hardly ever watch) and there was Clay! There were doing an Idols' quiz and he was in the first question and they showed a nice clip from Idol. It's about five or ten minutes from the end of the show.

I saw that too! I was just flipping through the channels & there he was.

[merrieeee]

I don't care if he lied!

I don't care if he has character flaws!

I don't care if he dissed someone in a M&G!

I don't care if he did not pick a certain story!

I don't care if he changes his words from interview to interview!

Just sing to me, pretty boy and I'll folllow you to the ends of the earth & back!

[cindilu2]

This whole "lying about lying about lying about lying about lying" thing really says to me that some aren't interested in looking inward at themselves.

sorry to snip just this one line, ldyj - but to me, the bigger question there is, why is it so damn important? He lied. He's not their son or husband or lover or even their friend. He's a singer and an entertainer. If you have 'trust issues' with a complete stranger, then looking inward as to why that is seems a more urgent question to me. The problem is theirs, not his. It really does boggle my mind.

eta: If just one of those people who want to judge and criticize him would put their lives on display for equal treatment (AND live up to their own 'standards') then I might possibly consider their opinions relevant. Be sure to include transcripts of every conversation you've ever had, (especially any that took place with any kind of emotion- good or bad - you're still responsible for every word uttered), video of 75% of it, and oh yes, make sure that a goodly portion of it is only related second, or third or fourth hand, and keep in mind that any way that those people interpret your words is fair game - what you add later or clarify yourself is irrelevant - if it's reported, it will be considered true regardless. Do that for at least 3 or 4 years, and then we'll talk.

eata: merrieeee, in other words, you don't care if he's a normal human being? You'll enjoy him anyway? What a concept!!

[Couch Tomato]

I don't care if he dissed someone in a M&G!

I don't care if he did not pick a certain story!

Bwah..yeah .. it's amazing how the whiney ass issues come to the surface every single time. Can you imgaine if your husband/boyfriend/family member/friend did that to you every time you had a disagreement? Clay is a bad man because he didn't see the genius of my story. Get over it.

[cindilu2]

I don't care if he dissed someone in a M&G!

I don't care if he did not pick a certain story!

Bwah..yeah .. it's amazing how the whiney ass issues come to the surface every single time. Can you imgaine if your husband/boyfriend/family member/friend did that to you every time you had a disagreement? Clay is a bad man because he didn't see the genius of my story. Get over it.

Yeah but for some it's their only claim to fame. If they let that go... what else will gain them attention?

[claylove]

There are people I have stopped associating with because of their reactions and things they have said about Clay. There are many individuals on the boards that I do not respect or appreciate. There may very well be fractures in the internet fandom, but we have had those before too. The point is none of that will ever change how I feel about Clay or what he means to me. I don't need to agree with the people on the message boards to be a fan of Clay; I only need him.

And for the record, I may have been here since Day 1 but dang it, I am not a moldy oldie! *stomps foot* hee j/k

PS. I don't mean this board. I like it here

[aikim]

Bella My kids were never afraid of the flying monkeys either...actually they all love scary movies, the scarier the better...they were always quite aware of the difference between make believe and real life.

The part about the "he lied, he lied" argument that always bothered me was that it seemed so self-centered. It was all about their feelings and how Clay hurt them...how about looking at the big picture...try understanding what Clay was going through and put yourself in his shoes.

Kim

[merrieeee]

Yeah but for some it's their only claim to fame. If they let that go... what else will gain them attention?

Ding Ding Ding....we have a winner!

[muskifest]

Enough of this frivolity!

I have a REAL dilemma! I'm not going to see Clay until January and I'm really, REALLY missing Spamalot! What's a Sir Robin fan to do?

Oooh. Tomorrow I get to do a site visit at a big hotel in San Francisco. They'll try to impress me and get me to choose that hotel for our big conference in 2010. I'll get a nice free lunch and whatnot and I'll leave work at noon and won't go back. heh. I'm looking forward to that!

I think I'll watch a Clay JBT DVD this evening! Hubby's at a meeting and the kids are doing their homework thang in various rooms. I'm gonna treat myself to some PANTS! and some "Ain't no mountain high enough" and some eyefucks and whatnot.

Yeah. THAT'S the ticket!

[aikim]

Posted by notacanuck at CC:

my new QUOTE

I thought this was funny from babble.com, a webzine for parents

QUOTE

Clay Aiken is a Push-Over

Looks like new dad Clay Aiken is putty in the teeny hands of his newborn son. Talking about 3-1/2 month old son Parker, Aiken says, "I'm trying my best to be the one who doesn't always let him get what he wants, but he owns us." Speaking from experience, I say they're never too young to get grounded - a week without internet access and his pacifier should put you right back in control, Clay.

But looks like the baby's mother and Aiken's good friend Jaymes Foster really calls the shots. "It was probably a week before [she] had to change a diaper at all!" the singer tells Entertainment Tonight. Really? A week before she had to change a diaper? This woman is my hero.

[annabear]

This whole "lying about lying about lying about lying about lying" thing really says to me that some aren't interested in looking inward at themselves.

To me, the whole lying thing is a moot point because he never should have had to say anything to begin with - the questions never should have been asked. Period. It's absolutely no one's business unless they're personally involved with him. And if someone wants to think/say/feel that he lied, fine, but I fail to see how something done in self-preservation suddenly means that he's a completely different person than we thought he was, deficient in character and lacking empathy for others. Just.does.not.compute.

[bottlecap]

I got nothin' other than I think it's time to start drinking.

:trink3: :704: :bier:

[calurker]

oops!

[luckiest1]

Pass me the bottle. I dont drink, but maybe it's time to start.

[cindilu2]

I dunno - to me it seems like the copy/paste function must get a real workout from some folks. The internet version of lather/rinse/repeat. It's all soooo five minutes ago.

Time to fish or cut bait, because after a while it's just rather pathetic.

[ldyjocelyn]

This whole "lying about lying about lying about lying about lying" thing really says to me that some aren't interested in looking inward at themselves.

To me, the whole lying thing is a moot point because he never should have had to say anything to begin with - the questions never should have been asked. Period. It's absolutely no one's business unless they're personally involved with him. And if someone wants to think/say/feel that he lied, fine, but I fail to see how something done in self-preservation suddenly means that he's a completely different person than we thought he was, deficient in character and lacking empathy for others. Just.does.not.compute.

Oh, I agree, just as I agree with cindilu2 that it should NOT be that important. But again -- I feel these people need to look inside themselves -- why do they care so much about the "lying?" Why does this change their feelings of Clay so strongly? Why? That's what I'm trying to make sense of, and it's not computing to me.

[calurker]

Let me try again...sorry for the oops !!!

AH, Cindilu2.....there's the rub!!!!!! That staement says a lot and is a truth that a lot of fans having difficulty will not admit. THEY need the attention...if they go then there is a huge void they have to fill and dragging this on and on keeps them in the spotlight so to speak. Until we stop responding to them...they will not stop...IMO This constant rehashing gives them a reason to stay....they want to stay but don't know how. Does that make any sense at all?

It did when I started writing...now it sounds like gibberish.......Let's talk about the weather !!!!!!