#51: You go on with your bad self, Mr. Aiken

[merrieeee]

Boy, Access Hollywood & Rolling Stone. He sure knows how to make a splash!

[Desertrose]

Interesting. It appears that Gene Simmons does not see Adam as a rock star.

Gene..

You rocked tonight on American Idol. Like always. U R a rock god!!!!!

If you cant can you hook Adam Lambert up with someone to get him started on the way to be another rock god like you.

My opinion is: Adam should of won American idol hands down. He is amazing. I have bought everything there is to buy of him on I tunes and I voted hundreds of times for him on Tuesday nights. actually sat here and voted and voted for hours for him.

Hope you actually get this and can send Adam somewhere he can start his rock n roll career .

Take care and big ass hugs to you,

Jodie

Response from Gene:

Respectfully, I don't think Adam is a rock singer. He sounds much more convincing singing ballads, and Broadway shows. His voice doesn't seem to have a "rock quality." But, I'm sure he's going to do just fine.

http://www.genesimmons.com/fanstories/

[Couch Tomato]

OK this is not what I wanted to wake up too. You can't be stalked on a message board especially if you are in the thick of every conversation. And if you are you have 100 witness to inform the police. And whoever is feeding your stalking theories needs to woman up RIGHT NOW. I'm like judge Judy. I give no credence to heresay.

I've been reading DJS for 6 years. Her post was like Clay's blog in that there was nothing new in it LOL. That's her posting style. Everybody has one. . I was so sensitive to your complaints last time Claytonic that I decided not to respond to your posts, missing out on conversation that I wanted to be a part of it. Until I thought WTF..what the hell am I doing? This is MY board too.

Now that the entire board is involved I'll say to everyone as I did notice the snippityness yesterday. This is a message board and if you don't want responses we have a problem. If you want people not to disagree with you, we have a problem. If you say something provocative expect disagreement. If you say the sun is shining - someone will say it's raining. That's LIFE on a message board.

I understand what it's like to read some body's name and to start rolling my eyes and getting pissy before I read the first sentence. Unfortunately nothing good will come of it, for anyone, especially those of us who have to deal with the fall out. Kandre is not around but something she said before is rolling around my head - let's all conjur up her voice as we read:

KANDRE'S NOT AN ADMINY POST

I said all of that to say this: We expect you to speak your mind, both about Clay and the board, but would like y'all to post in a way to avoid defensiveness on all parts - yours and anyone else's - it makes real communication difficult. It makes posters wary, and we really would like to avoid the wariness that leads to a lot of bad feelings.

or another beauty

Why even communicate with each other if you don't want some sort of acknowledgment of what you think? If it didn't make a difference to me what another poster felt or thought, I either wouldn't be on the board or I would tell them to shut up. That hasn't happened yet. This board isn't about one-sided sharing either. No one is posting in a vacuum, otherwise you might as well just talk to yourself if you don't want the give and take thing.

If it gets to the point where you can't stand to see a name then it's your job to put THEM on ignore. You can't force that choice on someone else. If you are being hounded in PMs that's a different story. But Hounded is the key - if you are giving and taking that's why it's there -- to spare the rest of us. Again if you don't trust me to do something about being hounded then talk to Bottlecap, KAndre, JMH or LadyJ.

I am tempted to say for anyone who wants to discuss this go to feedback. But we have never done that and I guess I won't start now. It should be plain that I can pretty much take being called everything but a child of god (TM Obama). But this time I will put up more of a hearty defense. Be forewarned But nothing wrong with a good throwdown right? But let's bring it like adults. This personal sniping offends everyone.

[wandacleo]

Are we fighting again???? And I MISSED it???!!!

Fuck.

On that note, there were two articles about AI in my newspaper today. Both make reference to Clay. The first article has a paragraph about Clay and talks about how the "national conversation has come a long way in the six years since singer Clay Aiken was dogged by rumors about his sexuality...." It's a good article.

"Idol" reinvigorates discourse on high profile gays

The second article also makes reference to the fact that you don't have to win to WIN, and points to Clay Aiken's success. I found a link for that at another site.

Does Lambert's loss matter?

[preden]

I reread the blog this morning, so much commotion about what he said, I don't see him bashing anyone, just giving his opinion. Of course, that causes a discussion. I could see being mad about people thinking he would automaticaly favoring the gay guy. Hopefully this will be over with soon. I'm looking forward to some career news after his short vacation with you know who.

[luckiest1]

Boy, Access Hollywood & Rolling Stone. He sure knows how to make a splash!

Huh? Explain, please.

[djs111]

I could see being mad about people thinking he would automaticaly favoring the gay guy.

That was exactly what I thought - he was surprised when people talked Adam up to him, because he thought the people around him knew what kind of music he likes. And yeah, I can see where he might think they were doing that just because he is gay. Were there questions to him at OFC asking how much he liked Kris? Or just about Adam.

[merrieeee]

Boy, Access Hollywood & Rolling Stone. He sure knows how to make a splash!

Huh? Explain, please.

It's just that his blog is now showing up those places and not just on blogs alone.

Well my google chat has frozen up on me . So i'm not ignoring anyone just can't get in.

[treenuts]

Do you realise he did it again? Here we are a day after the AI finale and who are the blogs talking about? It sure isn't the winner! What was his name again?

I really hope that is a misunderstanding. The Q&A has been a great OFC benefit, so I'd hate to see the answers quoted across various boards for nothing. As much as I join the OFC to support Clay, it is nice when there is some little perk as well, since we don't have any concert pre-sales or meet & greets this year. And these Q&As have been a great perk!

TGIF!!!

When I saw this I wanted to double check, because I too would prefer the Q&A to stay on the OFC AND it seems to be doing this. I double checked with BFS and here is what she said - I am quoting with her permission.

No, it's not true, I have never said that in regards to Clay's question. They are property of the OFC and shouldn't be reposted on other boards. I have said my posts with the rules may be brought to other boards if it would help members follow them.

SO now we have it in black and white. The rules can be posted in their entirety and Q&A can't be.

(bolding mine)Thanks for clarifying that for us, goldarngirl!

[Couch Tomato]

That's good to know. I think that's a great incentive for the fan club.

As for Clay's blog spreading he knew and I knew it - I'm sure we all knew it would. If he wasn't concerned about that I can't be either. I know it will be spun in a lot of ways but hopefully they will also post a lot of the blog if not all of it so people can see his point. Clay gets shit on no matter what so he may as well say his piece. And next week it will be old news.

[luckiest1]

Thanks, merrieee, I'm just out of the loop! I don't read much except here anymore. Can't say I'm surprised that his blog has spread, though. You go, Clay!

ETA: I appreciate all the news/links/pictures etc everyone brings over!

[merrieeee]

Does this mean that because the story is now appearing everywhere that Clay Aiken is still relevant? Someone must think he is newsworthy...no?

I've heard he is a has-been and no one cares about him any more! Well except for us crazeee Claymates!

[wandacleo]

I thought the e-online article was fine.

[keepingfaith]

As far as being a true rock star, I liked Allison.

From the few performances I managed to see this season, Allison was my favorite too. Her "Cry Baby" was excellent. The best two Joplin covers I've ever seen performed on TV were Melissa Etheridge at the Grammys doing Piece of My Heart, and Allison on Idol. That girl is so young, but she'll be heard from.

I think Clay may have offered himself up as media fodder to fill in for the lack of interest in Idol this week. That's meant to be funny, but may not be far from the truth. The finale was a ratings dud -- worst ever. No matter who won, it would have still been the lowest.rated.ever. Now the picking of bones begins -- not in ClayNation, but in IdolHell. Nigel Lithgoe is saying that if he had stayed on as producer he would never have allowed a fourth judge on the show, and that the production was amateurish, running overtime week after week. ~yada yada~ There's a piling on happening around Idol. Changes will be made and that's a safe prediction. Maybe they'll bring in Clay Aiken as a consultant to straighten it out! No, they don't have that much sense. Simon will jump this ship if it doesn't improve next year -- and I don't see what they would be willing to do that would make a difference. The show seems hackneyed and strangely out of touch for people in the midst of the music scene. The judges comments are repetitive to the extent that they could just play Tape 1, Tape 2, Tape 3 and cover everything. Every year is the best ever. Everybody they choose to pimp is going to be the biggest star ever. One thing they should stop doing is bringing in ringers through the back door and make everyone audition the same way. Otherwise it just ain't real.

I did read an interesting post on one of my political boards yesterday, in summary expressing gratitude for Adam Lambert being on the show this year because his presence forced an end to the "you're so gay" sniping between Simon and Seacrest.

OMG NOOOOOO. Apparently I share an opinion with Gene Simmons. OH NOOOOOOO! Say it ain't so, Desertrose!!!

[djs111]

Interesting that so much of the Idol reporting is split between Clay's blog and various articles about how Adam wuz robbed.

I feel bad for Kris Allen.

What I saw of Allison I really liked. I am hoping I hear more from her.

[merrieeee]

I just saw an interesting post at CV that said he moved his Q&A answer over to his blog to make it easier to find. Why would he want it to be easier to find? For whom? We all know how to find his answers! hmm

[preden]

I just saw an interesting post at CV that said he moved his Q&A answer over to his blog to make it easier to find. Why would he want it to be easier to find? For whom? We all know how to find his answers! hmm

Makes me wonder if we'll hear something next week after his vacation, would love to hear his say about all this.

[beryl]

The finale was a ratings dud -- worst ever. No matter who won, it would have still been the lowest.rated.ever.

keepingfaith, I couldn't find the link for the ratings but I think AI owes its highest viewership to Clay Aiken and his millions of fans (then?). 38.1m, the highest belonged to Season 2 where he was in the top 2, and 36.5m, the second highest, happened in season 5 finale where he was a guest performer, wasn't it? I think it was because of the Claymates, Claynadians, Claynation, and Clayasians, right?

[merrieeee]

Hee. You forgot the Clafrican Americans (tm Trya)

[aikim]

I think AI has been continually trying to repeat the success of Season 2 and it is just not going to happen....love that once again the buzz is all about Clay!

Really do wonder if there is something behind the blog or just Clay wanting to vent?

Gorgeous day here...blue sky, not a cloud in sight...plenty of sunshine. I have been outside reading, working on my tan...listening to the birds and just enjoying life...perspective is a good thing.

Kim

[claytonic]

The tone I am using matches yours. It should NOT be regarded as aggressive.

OK this is not what I wanted to wake up too. You can't be stalked on a message board especially if you are in the thick of every conversation. And if you are you have 100 witness to inform the police. And whoever is feeding your stalking theories needs to woman up RIGHT NOW. I'm like judge Judy. I give no credence to heresay.

I said my POSTS were stalked, that was the observation passed on to me. Stalked/targeted, and jumped on and refuted and where possible, high-fived for good measure. It became a pattern. And no, I won't be giving anyone's name. They can do it themselves if they want to but why would they want to? Most aren't even members, so no point in telling you. They contact me via my email address which they found in the Glossary if they didn't know me beforehand. You'd be amazed at some of the observations. If you think this is all 'heresay', that's okay with me, you can believe what is easier and more comfortable for you to believe, or you can stop and think about it. Your choice.

Sorry, but I am not in the thick of every conversation. There are many posts that don't interest me. For one thing, I am not interested in Clay's love life because I feel it is disrespectful to intrude on his privacy, that is the least I can do even though I think he has resigned himself to the fact he can't do anything about it. I am more interested in his beautiful son, although I feel guilty about THAT intrusion of privacy but I have a soft-spot for babies and Parker won't be a baby for much longer. And I don't involve myself in some non-Clay topics such as movies, television, sport and other posts I don't agree with or I find utterly boring, but I pass them over, just as others who are not interested in some of what I post, pass over my posts. No sweat about that. That is normal behavior.

I've been reading DJS for 6 years. Her post was like Clay's blog in that there was nothing new in it LOL. That's her posting style. Everybody has one. . I was so sensitive to your complaints last time Claytonic that I decided not to respond to your posts, missing out on conversation that I wanted to be a part of it. Until I thought WTF..what the hell am I doing? This is MY board too.

Right, then you know that djs111 has a tendency to throw a tantrum out of the blue if someone says something she doesn't like. Regarding a discussion about Clay, one member made a very valid comment about Clay being stubborn. You should have heard djs go on about it. I went to find the actual text from LTS and posted it, and that caused another flare up. It is totally bizarre. You know, just because we make a comment about Clay that doesn't involved gushing about him, it doesn't mean we are being nasty about him. It is ludicrous that we have to walk on egg-shells over a simple opinion about Clay. Come on, what's the average age of the posters in here? It is ridiculous.

I have a style too and not everyone likes it. DJS111 crossed the line when she took a swipe at my country. That was the straw that broke the camel's back. It's not a put down I will tolerate from anyone. Are you fine with THAT kind of style?

You were sensitive to my complaints? Heck, you never even answered a direct question I was waiting and waiting for you to respond to. I asked you if bullying was condoned in this forum and you never answered. I thought it was an important question. In fact, from my understanding, you weren't interested in answering my question because the board was having a 'smut' session and my question was out of context. I will find the posts if you want, including the one from you to 'read the room', because I was the only one out of step with the smutting. At the time, however, I thought you wouldn't answer because you didn't want to admit me that the bullies in this forum have free reign to do what they like.

Here's an example of how you slammed me when CANN was relatively new to me and I noticed an inaccuracy and pointed it out because I was wondering how reliable that site was going to be in terms of factual information. Since I am less informed about Clay matters than most in the fandom, it always bothers me if I know something an information site (such as CANN) was wrong about. The link below will take you to my post, to which you responded like this:....

ping number one,, but whatever. It's one of my pet peeves, the need to run in and correct every freaking article and protect poor little Clay. Clay isn't singled out for poor journalism; it's the norm. He was praised..kindly email the person a private correction and let it be over. But that's just too easy - let's make this tiny thing into something larger than it needs to be. How many time have one innocuous comment turned into someone with their own bully pulpit turning on the Claymates. And we wonder why we have the reputation that we do. But this is Clay Nation. Sorry to offend anyone but it's how I feel.

I just wish Clay were the focus of this fandom and not the people out to "do him in."

http://findingclayaiken.invisionzone.com/i...amp;#entry99845

Although I was subdued in my response to what you said above, I was startled and somewhat hurt about being slammed over such a small thing., I did not understand what you were going on about. Was it appropriate to slam a member who had no idea about the historical furore. Oh, I am learning about it all now, and it is the only reason I decided against joining the OFC. I've been told too many times on this board how crazy all those fans are over there and how terrible it is. Why would I put myself in a position of being tempted to go there when anything and everything that is important is revealed in due course and I can know about without all the crap. You'd be amazed how many fans have told me they rarely involve themselves actively in Clay forums anymore because it is just not worth the angst when they are being pushed around and told what they are allowed to think and say.

Now that the entire board is involved I'll say to everyone as I did notice the snippityness yesterday. This is a message board and if you don't want responses we have a problem. If you want people not to disagree with you, we have a problem. If you say something provocative expect disagreement. If you say the sun is shining - someone will say it's raining. That's LIFE on a message board.

Good grief, It is not about disagreeing that bothers me. It is about the WAY it is done, the belittling, the humiliation. It's why some members visit and read but NEVER post and/or NEVER join. They still feel a connection with Clay but they prefer to keep connected from a distance. They have too much respect for themselves to subject themselves to Clayboard bootcamp.

I understand what it's like to read some body's name and to start rolling my eyes and getting pissy before I read the first sentence. Unfortunately nothing good will come of it, for anyone, especially those of us who have to deal with the fall out. Kandre is not around but something she said before is rolling around my head - let's all conjur up her voice as we read:

QUOTE

KANDRE'S NOT AN ADMINY POST

I said all of that to say this: We expect you to speak your mind, both about Clay and the board, but would like y'all to post in a way to avoid defensiveness on all parts - yours and anyone else's - it makes real communication difficult. It makes posters wary, and we really would like to avoid the wariness that leads to a lot of bad feelings.

or another beauty

QUOTE

Why even communicate with each other if you don't want some sort of acknowledgment of what you think? If it didn't make a difference to me what another poster felt or thought, I either wouldn't be on the board or I would tell them to shut up. That hasn't happened yet. This board isn't about one-sided sharing either. No one is posting in a vacuum, otherwise you might as well just talk to yourself if you don't want the give and take thing.

For one thing, it is hard not to get defensive when a bunch of people ALL go against you, hi-fiving to add extra weight to throw on you. Any wonder why those who don't agree with them don't want to be involved? Terrible, isn't it, when people are too scared to say what they want to say because the heavies on this board make them feel they have no right to their opinion, which happens to be different.

See my response above - sharing opinions and having discussions is one thing. Belittling someone to boost one's own ego or self-importance and be in good standing with the "popular girls group" is tantamount to bullying. Trust me, that word was also fed to me from someone else. "as the mountain to the climber is clearer from the plain" (Kahlil Gibran)

When someone never ever acknowledges your post or indeed your existence despite over 1000 posts EXCEPT to attack what you have said, I have a problem with that. There is one person, only one person in this forum I have despised for some time. The others, some I give them the benefit of the doubt that they are having a bad day and need an easy target, or it's a quirk, we all have them. I gave you the benefit of the doubt the day you tore into me about my CANN post ... I figured you were perhaps tired, taking care of family needs etc. But you know what I also have RL stuff to deal with, do YOU ever give me that consideration on this board? Like the time you and KAndre flippantly dissed and dismissed everything I said regarding how I felt about Beyonce's behavior over Jennifer Hudson's tragedy....that was very close to the bone for me because I too experienced a situation where someone I thought was my friend (with a long family-type history) kept their distance when I suffered a major tragedy, yet there were others that I expected nothing from who bent over backwards to help and comfort me. I couldn't believe the attitude from you and Kandre. Yes, I felt for Jennifer Hudson, not because she was a celebrity because God knows I don't get star struck (and still at times can't quite get the OTT gushing over Clay), but because she was a human being who was in so much pain, and just at that time, I felt it with her. Are you so insensitive.. even if you didn't agree, who was damn Beyonce to you that you had to defend her cold and uncompassionate behavior? I've never felt quite the same about you and KAndre since that day and I almost left the board that day because I couldn't believe everyone on this board was indifferent to someone else's monumental tragedy, until I realized they possibly didn't feel comfortable contradicting you and Kandre's strong opinion because I refused then to believe that this board is full of cold-hearted, uncompassionate people. Not comfortable to say what they really think, yes. Cold-hearted, maybe some but not all. The considerable respect and high regard I had for both you and KAndre was killed that day. Had all the mods joined in with you and KAndre, I would have left and never returned. I probably would have left the fandom as well. That is how strongly I felt, yet you didn't have the empathy to sense it.

If it gets to the point where you can't stand to see a name then it's your job to put THEM on ignore. You can't force that choice on someone else. If you are being hounded in PMs that's a different story. But Hounded is the key - if you are giving and taking that's why it's there -- to spare the rest of us. Again if you don't trust me to do something about being hounded then talk to Bottlecap, KAndre, JMH or LadyJ.

I first needed to know what the rules were here about bullying before I talk to anyone else on the administrative team. If bullying, belittling, humiliating and pushing around members who aren't "originals" or who don't agree with everything the "in crowd" stipulates, members need to be told IN ADVANCE.

I am tempted to say for anyone who wants to discuss this go to feedback. But we have never done that and I guess I won't start now. It should be plain that I can pretty much take being called everything but a child of god (TM Obama). But this time I will put up more of a hearty defense. Be forewarned But nothing wrong with a good throwdown right? But let's bring it like adults. This personal sniping offends everyone. .

What does "go to feedback" mean?

Yes, personal sniping is very offensive. I have strong opinions because I have a strong interest in a lot of things, but if someone attacks my posts I will be defensive. I don't mind people disagreeing. It's nice to have someone agree with you but I've never learned anything from anyone who always agrees with me. However, give a civilised reason so that it is actually a conversation, an exchange of information. And like everyone else, I will defend my country if anyone takes a swipe at my homeland, even if it was only to hurt me. That falls into the bullying category when you touch on someone's country, particularly when someone from the most powerful country in the world takes a swipe at a much lesser country. In my case, I am very sensitive about it because I have suffered directly as a result of some of the decisions my country took to support the USA in stupid wars. I think it was Oprah who, standing up and facing her audience, asked the question: "WHY does the world hate America". I have no other comment, but don't shoot the messenger... go and ask Oprah what she was talking about, that's if you really don't know what she was talking about.

[luckiest1]

As for Clay's blog spreading he knew and I knew it - I'm sure we all knew it would. If he wasn't concerned about that I can't be either. I know it will be spun in a lot of ways but hopefully they will also post a lot of the blog if not all of it so people can see his point. Clay gets shit on no matter what so he may as well say his piece. And next week it will be old news.

Exactly.

[Couch Tomato]

My non work day has suddenly gotten busy so I will respond later to your tome or not. But you are not a weakling. You can handle yourself so this talk about bullies throws me every time.

The quote you posted of mine has absolutely nothing to do with you. NOTHING. If you want to take every post and turn inward there is nothing I an do about that. But if you do it to me don't know why I would believe you aren't doing it to everyone. My post was about the author of that article doing unnecessary protection of Clay. And I would say it again a million times.

Later for the rest of it.

ETA: Beyonce? That's what's offending you. I certainly would NOT have the psychic ability to figure that out. That I would not automatically damn Beyonce cuz somebody that I do not know not named Jennifer was upset cuz she supposedly didn't offer sympathy? If that's the height of your problems we certainly have a problem. I did not slam Jennifer. She is my favorite Idol from season 3 What I said had nothing to do with her. And if I'm expecting to watch my mouth not to offend everybody's favorites we might as well close the door right now.

Feeback is another section on the board -- not main -- where people would have to be subjected to this but can read and and respond if they want to.

OK I guess I finished after all. What I don't get is someone who doesn't understand OTT on a Clay fan board. I suspect if you went to any other artist's fan's board they too would be the bestest most talented person in the whole wide world. I honestly thought you would say something to me to give me pause and make me see the errors of my ways but you did not. Those examples just gave me a big old WTF and honestly have nothing else to say.

I apologize to the board for this but I don't have all the answers. That's one thing I will admit.

[spikesmom]

I wasn't even going to watch Idol this year. Had finally had enough of it. Really wasn't "watching" it the last couple of years. I would DVR and FF through everything except the actual performances. Often I didn't even watch the group numbers. Results night, except for a rare performance or two, skipped the "big names" who were on to pimp whatever they had going on and skipped to the end to see who got the boot. Sometimes didn't even bother with that, just caught the results on-line or waited for the next day's news.

I had planned to be completely done this year - wouldn't even DVR and FF. It had jumped the shark for me.

But then this year, a guy from Milwaukee made it, so I watched because of the hometown connection (didn't watch any of the audition rounds, I didn't start until the top 12 or however it worked this year - shows how important it was to me I guess). Still DVR'd and FF though - I mean I was still only willing to do so much! I even FF'd through some of the performances if they didn't interest me.

I enjoyed Allison's voice - I had a little trouble with her enunciation, but enjoyed her overall. I do feel that both Adam and Kris are talented but tastes being what they are, they weren't "my cuppa"... of course, those who didn't care for Danny probably figure I don't have ANY taste.

The judges comments are repetitive to the extent that they could just play Tape 1, Tape 2, Tape 3 and cover everything. Every year is the best ever. Everybody they choose to pimp is going to be the biggest star ever.

Yup, one of the main reasons I FF is to skip the judges. I've heard their repetitive comments enough. Last I checked, the show isn't supposed to be about them. I hate the pimping - regardless who it's for - I can make up my own mind thankyouverymuch, I know what I like, don't need them to tell me what's "good" and "bad", and Ryan just works my last nerve. So FF makes it a much more enjoyable experience...

And now they're extending to 90 minutes? Barf. Barring another Milwaukee connection, I've had enough. And I'm praying no one from Milwaukee tries out...

I didn't have any issue with Clay's blog/answer to the AI question. Didn't hear a diss on Adam. If Adam fans hear a diss, IMO, that's on them, just like any upset I may have about Clay comments is on me. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and can voice it if they choose, including Clay. How someone reacts to it is totally on them. No one, except Clay, really knows what he meant to say. Everyone is just reading what they want into his comments - including me.

I guess I just see a whole lot of two-faced going on - fans can say whatever they want about whomever they want - especially Clay, but Clay must rise above it all. Apparently he's not entitled to have an unpopular opinion, be politically incorrect EVER! or be a fan/non-fan without taking shit for it. I guess I don't get it.

[kimiye]

Okay, I give up. I've been all over this board trying to find the thread where we can talk about getting together. Yeah, I'm Houston-bound again this June, with a stopover in New Orleans. Somebody point me towards the eHP?