lightmyfire

I've been frustrated, sad, amused, and angry many time before, but today I feel deep and abiding shame at this fandom. Going off half-cocked is nothing new, rushing in defense of Clay is old news, hyper-criticism of Clay likewise, but to participate in deep analysis of a news item that was presented as a "maybe," and then to turn around and blame a single individual for it with no benefit of the doubt--it's disgusting. The strong voices should have been saying, "hold off," "give this a little time," "wait and see if it's true," instead of joining in to energize and shape the discourse of criticism of Clay for agreeing to the tour. Then some of the same people are ripping Kim to shreds now that we know he did not, giving her no benefit of the doubt when we of all people should be aware of the complexities of media and PR actions. The cruelty towards Kim as a performer and a person, the smug self-importance of statements implying that "Clay is too good for them," or "their fans should be thrilled that they have this opportunity to tour with someone so superior to them," are simply offensive. The face of this fandom has become bitter and ugly and off-putting. If it is affecting some of us, who are huge fans of the man, so deeply, I can only imagine how it must look to outsiders. Maybe I've just been blinded to some extent, for all my prior fussing about it, but today it has really hit me hard.

ETA: lilyshine, if only I didn't hate cooked carrots...I think that looks really good.

I agree with you in respect to the present face of this fandom. I would define it as you have.

Having said that...and you know I have a deep respect for your commentary even when the two of us have opposing view points or thought processes.....

And it appears that I am alone on an island....Kim is responsible for her quoted statements to Billboard.

Not her management, not her label. She is responsible for providing the press this story. Her credibility perhaps will take a hit, but I don't believe she deserves a beating. Kim made a mistake.

I don't have knowledge as to who the strong voices were or the leaders in this case.

I logged onto Billboard which is a weekly ritual (normally Thursday nights) for me on Monday night as my life has been one hectic mess. I read the breaking news releases. I didn't log onto the OFC or here. Tuesday morning, I logged onto the OFC and it is there were I viewed the scan of the printed version of the publication dated the 15th. At that point, I concluded that Kim had interviewed with Billboard and issued direct statements in respect to this issue in great detail. This wasn't a case in which an entertainment blog was the source. Two specific Billboard articles...I came to the opinion that this trio tour was the real deal. The printed statements were assigned exclusively to Kim, not a management or label representative. I later learned of the press release which they are responsible for. Her management and Curb made a mistake. I don't know if Billboard attempted to contact Clay's or Ruben's managment teams and were unsuccessful or not. If they didn't, they should have. Personally, I don't believe that this interview took place months ago as I first learned of it in the breaking news section.

We all live and learn...

Clayzor..... :F_05BL17blowkiss:

I believed it was the real deal when I read Kim's quoted statements in the Billboard article.

although I do wonder how this got so far in the first place, if Clay never really was "on board."

Don't know. Maybe Kim also has one of those record-company-assigned publicists who is not-so-secretly working behind the scenes to DESTROY HER CAREER.

Sadly for Kim, she is taking a beating.

Clay did admit that he permitted the idea to ruminate. So...he has taken at least some responsibility to this fiasco in the land of Clay.......

FYI the news about the Reunion Tour has hit the media. One of the DJ's of the AA station that I listen to announced it just now. She pretty much quoted the Billboard article rather condescending. Finished by saying that she checked her calendar for 2008 and had unfortunately no opening. I'm not at all surprised as I do not expect to hear positive comments from the media about this.

Clay just concluded a tour ripping radio..SO...radio rips Clay...Clay rips radio...radio rips Clay..and the cycle continues....

I believe this tour is the real deal at this point. I can't imagine that the management teams didn't put out feelers to the venues for responses to booking. I could be way off base...but, I am betting it is the real deal.

Personally, I am not stunned..in fact, when I digested the news...I smiled and said to myself..this is so Clay Aiken...

I have concluded that for me personally, the best action that I can to take to support Clay and his career at this time is to not renew my membership in the coming weeks to his OFC.

lightmyfire, I'm confused. Please understand that I'm not trying to put you on the defensive, I'm just confused as how you view membership at the OFC as a means of supporting or not surrporting his career?

I never thought about it in that way. I'm totally selfish in that I joined OFC strictly for what I can get out of it. I like the blogs, the presale information, I love getting to see Clay's vacation pictures when he chooses to show them to us (alas, no pics from Brazil), and I love those little audio holiday greetings that are incredibly dorky, yet endearing . I stay away from the MB mostly, becoss it skeers me. I don't see it as a means of supporting his career. Is there something about OFC that I'm missing?

The OFC does not fit me and I don't fit the OFC. Having stated that...

ETA: since no one has posted yet - I guess the fact that I was holed up here for the past year makes a difference. I tried to venture out but came back quickly and you couldn't pay me to read the OFC. But yep Play, you hit on everything that chased me here. But although loud, I believe these represent a very teeeeny part of the fandom. I've always enjoyed the wild, wooly, even contentious nature of the fandom.

I have concluded that for me personally, the best action that I can to take to support Clay and his career at this time is to not renew my membership in the coming weeks to his OFC.

Gibby thank you and if you ever have the time I would love for you to share your general take on Jesse's effort in respect to the orchestra arrangements for An Evening With Clay Aiken. Honestly, I am not certain if you posted your thoughts on the board as threads are flying and I perhaps missed your commentary. And as to not interrupt the flow of the current discussions...a PM would be fabu...

And to you and keepingfaith, my avie is Morrison.

Ansamcw I am with you...they can do it without me. I rarely express my thoughts publically about the fandom. But, today...I just felt the need to state my piece/peace.

playbiller You are good people..... :F_05BL17blowkiss:

There are a whole lot of different ways to be a fan. I have to admit I have a low tolerance now for certain things like the angsting, the anger, etc. However, I don't want the people who engage in that to go away and leave me alone because Clay needs those fans too. They love Clay and it manifests itself in a way that is hard for me to understand sometimes (like explaining on places like Amazon or other websites that Clay was forced to do ATDW; he didn't want to but oh buy it anyway). I have no problem saying that action is quite sucky but I can't get into the minds of people, or decide who can say they are a fan, or tell them how to be a fan. I just have to find that place where being a fan of Clay is fun and not so worrisome. Real life is tough enough.. Fortunately I think there are enough things on the schedule to keep everyone from flaming out. And with the tour coming up, I pray the meet and greet format remains the same so that Clay will be able to assauge fears about his album. I just think that helps the entire fandom not be victimized by a bunch of random speculation. I don't know. I'm feeling optimisitc. :21:

hmmm why am I up... NO WORK TODAY. Woot.

ETA: yes I remember that. I was in a hotel room in Anaheim. Didn't get to see it until I got home the next day and watch the clack. Thank god for clack.

Up and until February of 2006, I would have agreed with you, Couchie. But...my sentiment in respect to Clay's fanbase has changed. I believe that sadly this fandom has factions that are invasive and dishonest. And I honestly find their actions define the love for themselves, not a love for Clay. And I don't believe that Clay needs those fans regardless if they purchase a ton of CDs or a ton of concert tickets.

I am not perfect, Clay's not perfect..but I am expressing my true feelings. And I sense that I am not alone..

ldyjocelyn and Clayzor I agree.

Personally, I find Pickler's actions great today and I hope she snags a ton of green for the charity she is representing.

Like it or not, some people DO have information. Sometimes, that information is accurate for only a short time, while other times, it's just plain accurate.

It only stands to reason that among the thousands of Clay fans, there might be people who work in show biz or related fields... or that they might know someone who does. Or that there might be people who know Clay or one of his family members or close friends. These things happen.

I don't believe one single word that you post on any single board.

I never have and I never will.

And your latest "information" that you are desperately attempting to spout is one of the single most outrageous faleshoods I have ever heard in in the four year time period that I have followed Clay....

Thank you KAndre...I appreciate you responding!

A shame that the last night of this concert circuit ended in this fashion.

Regardless of those who have bloodied the past year and half, I will always treasure ATDW and this specific tour that supported this effort.

Without You was one of the greatest vocal styling performances I have ever witnessed live.

Clay delivered with his glory chords...and I love his flipping glutes for doing so....

I have one simple question that hopefully a member here can answer for me.

Did booing take place at last night's concert?

I am reading conflicting written opinions..

I am not a huge clack fan and rarely enter the Clack Unlimited site...

And honestly, I haven't seen any reports that this specific event was recorded by the "goddesses" or submitted for viewing...

(Although I will be forever grateful to the individual who filmed TITN in Raleigh, I have grown to have issues with clack)...

So, if someone could respond that attended last night...I would appreciate it!

:F_05BL17blowkiss:

Kelly made a terrible mistake by ripping Clive in The Blender piece as an older music exec who wouldn't have the ear for Rock music. Her credibility was blown to pieces with that commentary as Davis is a Rock & Roll Hall of Famer. And she tauts Steve Tyler as the perfect Rock Icon. Davis scouted and signed Aerosmith...

He discovered Joplin..

What did the WSJ say about Kelly's statement? I can't seem to access the web site.

JennaZ The WSJ article was published prior to the dropping of My December and covered the issue.

GAWD...I love Anderson Cooper.

I believe the key to the entire Kelly/Clive situation is that her manager also played the role as Executive Producer to this effort. In my opinion, the WSJ pretty well hit the nail on the head in their piece.

I don't remember if I read that or not. I'll have to go hunt it down somewhere.

You know, to avoid packing.

Hee.

Thanks.

KarenEh... that's some serious traveling schedule you have going on. I'm only going to Boston, NH, Boston home in three days... LOL. I already miss my cute dogs! Wah!

You are welcome. I am multi-tasking...listening to the Democratic Debate and reading threads.

Have a safe trip tomorrow... :F_05BL17blowkiss:

I agree JennaZ. I never believed this situation between Kelly and her label was a PR stunt or a publicity tool invented/structured to create hype. I believe it is the real deal. But, as you and I have opined previously, payola is over hyped and no amount of finances appropriated for radio support is gonna gain a spin if the PD refuses to spin the material. So, I don't view this apologetic statements as a strategic/tactical measure for label support to radio. Kelly carelessly played the ageism card, it backfired and her new founded management team is attempting to repair the damage to her image/reputation.

Hmm... maybe not invented to create hype, but perhaps used and spun and accented to create hype. I can believe it happened, just like I believe Clay was told to do covers, but management can spin that anyway they want to make a point - as I believe we have proven over the past six months or so. The same story can be told six different way - the facts don't change, only the hyperbole.

Perhaps her old management chose this route (ala ultimatum, mandate, blackmail, fight, win) and Kelly balked, but it was already rolling, so it happened...and now her new found management is cleaning up?

*still not packing*

I believe the key to the entire Kelly/Clive situation is that her manager also played the role as Executive Producer to this effort. In my opinion, the WSJ pretty well hit the nail on the head in their piece.

Great posts, everyone!

If others feel the need to see Clay as a victim, to spend their days fuming at RCA, or to wallow in misery and worry, so be it. That's their right. That's their fandom. Personally, even if the relationship between Clay and his label were worse than I believed, there really isn't anything I could do about it. And in fact, it's my understanding from recent M&G comments that he doesn't want fans to do anything more than buy his album. I choose to (horror of horrors) take him at his word.

Jmh, great list of things that have been promulgated as "fact."

Very interesting apology from Miss Clarkson. No doubt, some will claim it's staged, but I do think her situation shows what might happen when an artist doesn't listen to her label. Her fans may disagree, but IMHO, her songs haven't soared due to lack of label support. I think they're just too dark and bitter, and not as good. She probably would have benefited from more time - but she held her ground - and had to bear the consequences.

ETA more on Kelly: I actually do think that she's apologizing because she and/or her new manager realized that ranting against RCA/Clive Davis did not help her situation, and because it's beginning to seem as though her artistic choices did not turn out to be as profitable as she thought they'd be. I don't believe her battles with Clive were invented to sell albums. I wouldn't be surprised if she once thought it gave her more rock cred ("fight the power, man!"). But I do think she thought she was right. Maybe she thinks the apology will lead to more money for radio support. It will be interesting to see what, if anything, happens after this. Like I said before, I think her problem wasn't just the label. I think it was the music.

I agree JennaZ. I never believed this situation between Kelly and her label was a PR stunt or a publicity tool invented/structured to create hype. I believe it is the real deal. But, as you and I have opined previously, payola is over hyped and no amount of finances appropriated for radio support is gonna gain a spin if the PD refuses to spin the material. So, I don't view this apologetic statements as a strategic/tactical measure for label support to radio. Kelly carelessly played the ageism card, it backfired and her new founded management team is attempting to repair the damage to her image/reputation.

I believe the time line tells the story of ATDW. JMO..

Kelly played the ageism card and in the words of YSRN..It's really unbecoming. JMO.

And I wouldn't be surprised to learn the demo material coming in geared itself to the CCM market. And that was not going to fly. JMO.

Is this anntherese54's recap? 'Cause it is being posted over at the OFC that she gave details of a "horrible ultimatum" that RCA/Clive gave Clay (no longer a mandate) of "three years"...??? I am confused....

I have no idea what's being reported on OFC... seems to me that instead of moving forward people are so intent on being stuck in the past or being right. That's her official report and don't see anything even remotely like that. I mean what does that mean anyway..put out a covers CD or nothing for three years? This version says nothing like that. God this fandom likes to be bogged down in tiny tiny details. Everything Clay has been saying should have busted bubbles on every side but people can't let go. I hope Clay continues to do this.

Thanks ... I was confused...and it wouldn't be the first time and I am certain it won't be the last...HA!

GEEEEEEEEEEEZE!!!!

It was posted over at the OFC that she was on the CH cellcert last night giving details of a "horrible ultimatum" and that she would be posting a recap...

It was later stated that she posted a recap and it stated "three years"..

So...when I read the recap here...I was naturally confused...HA!

Is this anntherese54's recap? 'Cause it is being posted over at the OFC that she gave details of a "horrible ultimatum" that RCA/Clive gave Clay (no longer a mandate) of "three years"...??? I am confused....

They were joking on the CH stream they should take a picture of the line and send it to Clive. I thought wouldn't that be great. Then Clive would see how much we love going to see Clay sing covers!

BWAH!!!!! I always thought it was the success of covers like WDC that convinced Clive that Clay would be great as a cover artist.

Clay is some serious mad talent...he can cover....he can cover...a great, great vocal stylist...

They were joking on the CH stream they should take a picture of the line and send it to Clive. I thought wouldn't that be great. Then Clive would see how much we love going to see Clay sing covers!

I agree with playbiller ...WY was the highlight for me also.

And his version of Yeah was also incredible.

I finally watched the TV Theme medley from Canandaigua (sp?) and for the first time I liked it. More importantly I loved him doing it. That took on a whole new meaning of "cute" to me. He was working so hard and was just so damn adorable doing his George Jefferson dance. Now I want it to stay so I can see it live. Ya just never know how he'll change your mind from one minute to the next.

couchie, ITA with this statement you made. Especially since I seem to be the queen of angst

Quote: "But I think in general, with Clay around, everything is much better, happier, calmer. In the absence of information, people just make up stuff and are able to cause angst. . That's not possible anymore for the most part. And that's great. and as a result I'm enjoying the fandom these days."

And as for Clay's take on working with RCA or any label, truer words were never spoken! He's a very wise young man.

Quote: " "It's better to have a known devil than an unknown devil" or something like that."

Oh and the teeth. Yea, I seem to remember disliking the new dental work, like lots.

Now....I don't really notice much of a difference anymore. He looks mawwvelous dahlink!

Yeah...I wonder if he was referring to David Foster...and 143 ....