claytonic

Clay can be quite stubborn and maybe that stubbornness and his unwillingness to compromise didn't serve him well at RCA.

..but we just don't know. Kim

Funny you should mention that, because that has struck me as one of Clay's weaknesses. I'll never forget reading in LTS where he became a vegetarian for TWO YEARS even thought he liked meat, just to "show" his mother. I am also a stubborn person and i know how it feels to dig in my heels and not budge but I have had to learn to compromise, it's been a life-long work in progress on my part.

Better yet...it is! It's called "Life Experience" or something dumb like that here.

And re the $5K to Oz parents....I believe that was initiated as a facet of needing more population in the country at some point in the past. Clearly not the case here.

Yes, it was to help with the population but I don't actually approve of it. If we need a bigger population, we can "import" people. We cannot really afford that level of bonus when our health system is getting worse by the minute, we are seriously short of money AND short of good medical staff on all levels. The solution IMO is to encourage health professionals to come to Australia, we need their skills and qualifications and they can help populate this country.

Oh, and thanks for that great Blog, good to know I've been in the fandom for longer than some people now....

ETA: Re the life experience, sometimes it can be too late, if you are faced with say, a child at the bottom of the swimming pool, and you've never heard of CPR. That is why I mentioned a First Aid course as part of graduating from high school. Kids are still drowning in backyard pools at an alarming rate.

Clay, for example - if his dad was great, then he would get credit for good parenting. His dad and Ray are considered (without having too much info :-)) horrible, and yet here we have Clay Aiken! I suppose then that Clay is a good guy just to prove his parents wrong? That's why it cracks me up when people rag on Faye - is Clay a philanthropist in spite of her, or because of her? That depends entirely on agenda, from what I can see. IMO. Heee....he gets to be entirely self-created!

You see, while Faye was a little old-fashioned her in some of her punishments (writing stupid lines), my view is that her unconditional love for Clay was his survival kit and it even transcended the problems with Ray.

I believe there is indeed a big difference between IQ and EQ. Some people have an intellectual advantage but are emotionally disadvantaged. I have seen some very intelligent people ruin their lives, and I have seen some people who struggled through school yet their personalities and emotional stability got them through life very successfully. I do honestly think that the whole nature and nurture thing is extremely relevant, and for some people, if there is sufficient strength in nature... that can counter any nurturing disasters. On the other hand, if someone is "weak" in terms of nature, and has a disastrous nurturing environment, then that person could end up in all kinds of trouble. Then there's those who have a huge advantage in nature AND nurture, and the sky is the limit for them. I don't go along with the thing about "God gives you choice" because when someone is disadvantaged in terms of nature AND nurture, they just aren't equipped to be making good choices for themselves. It is like a health issue... if someone is pre-disposed to cancer, and they smoke, they end up in trouble. Others smoke and live to 90. That's how I see it with nature and environment (nurture).

While we are on social issues, have you guys been getting the news about our Father Peter Kennedy, a Catholic priest who was sacked from the church for allowing women preachers, for blessing gays and for calling the Catholic Church dysfunctional? It is causing quite an uproar. Having had a strict Catholic upbringing, including a few years in a Catholic boarding school, I am not sure whether to be amused or plain angry at what's going on. Hint: when completing forms that ask for religion, I state:NONE.

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0...91-3102,00.html

One thing Clay isn't, I think, is stupid. He seems to have an intelligent/serious side that balances his wacky/snarky side.

I think it's totally refreshing to know you are backing someone who actually has a brain and who is not being controlled by a puppeteer. Now, how deep is that?????

Absolutely agree.. in fact, that was what I found fascinating about Clay in his early interviews. He was this mix of a naive boy yet very smart young man. He took himself/his life and responsibilities very seriously, yet he also laughed the loudest at himself, so much so that it endeared him to comics like Kimmel, who gave him lots of air time. I also loved his interviews with Diane Sawyer, they showed him as someone with depth, and I found that attractive about him.

Claytonic,

both my mother and my father were pretty bad parents. But I sure am glad they were allowed to "breed".

That deciding and judging thing is a nasty slippery slope.

djs clearly your parents did something right...

And I was really doing a "tongue-in-cheek" .. . I am too much of a liberal to resort to the dark side of Big Brother. But having said that, there needs to be more assistance given to new parents. For example, in Oz, you get a $5K bonus for every new-born, and some people actually get pregnant for this bonus. It used to be paid as a lump-sum but now it is paid in 13 weekly payments. (That still won't stop them shopping for giant plasma screens but at least it doesn't make as easy)

I would, however, think that implementing a basic course in child care, child psychology and first aid would be a good thing for all new parents. Some new parents don't realize until too late that they have made some awful mistakes. I also don't understand why all new parents don't have a certificate in First Aid. I found the course invaluable, you never know when you might need it for your family or even a stranger in a shopping mall who may need CPR. Better still, it could be part and parcel of completing high school.

ETA: Oh, and I meant to mention about that woman who gave birth to 8 babies when she already had 6 and was single. Nothing wrong with being a single mother, but 6 kids under 8 plus 8 new born? That doctor who supported her "wish" needs to have his head checked.

He's going to be the kind of father he never had.

claytonic....my eyes sprung a funny, stinging moisture when I read this. My own history/relationship with a father, then stepfather is similar to Clay's....and I know that the couple of times I got serious about a guy I dated, I was checking him out big time as "potential future father" material.

I was determined to marry someone who I believed would be a solid dad to whatever children we might have. That criterion truly, truly had a major influence on whom I eventually DID marry (and have now shared 28 years of my life with)...

And I was an EXCELLENT judge of 'future father figure' character! My husband is the father to our two girls that I never had myself. And that makes me all kinds of schmoopie.

Maybe you can set up a Baby Daddy Consultancy ... where a woman who is considering marriage can bring her fiance to you for assessment, and you use your "daddy radar" to suss them out.

Hey, why not?

I think we all know too many who have no business being fathers, and maybe your radar can also pick up on the woman who shouldn't be responsible for taking care of a rat in a cage, much less an actual live baby. I don't understand women who fall pregnant to a drug addict or alcoholic ...I can understand that some people need help, but get the help first, get cleaned-up first.

Strange how you have to get a license to get married, but you don't need a license to breed... makes no sense to me.

You know, the interesting thing is that Clay referred to his biological father as a sperm donor, and yet that is what he himself became, but his own son has two loving parents who adore him and love and respect each other as dear friends. Is that really too awful to celebrate?

ETA: I was very impressed that Julia Roberts supported her niece's mother against her own brother, for absolutely the right reasons.

ETA: Oh, and I must say I'm a little bit apprehensive about Clay and RCA parting ways... Not because I think RCA is this great company or whatever (being a fairly new fan, I really have no idea about the Clay/RCA relationship) but just because of the image issues with the split. I do like that it is being reported as a mutual decision, though, and not that he was dropped. That's much more positive.

I wasn't thrilled either but it's a new era for the recording industry and it's been feeling the pinch for some time now, i.e. well before "world economic downturn" became a familiar term, so I don't think anyone gets surprised anymore. My feeling is that it wasn't entirely Clay's choice since nothing beats having a big name label behind an artist because of the expertise and powerful marketing machine. However, Clay has his own personal network in the business now, and his son is related to one of the biggest producers in the business, so it's just a matter of change and hopefully for the better. (It is extraordinary how many artists are now independently marketing their music.) On the other hand, Clay is more than 'simply' a recording artist, Broadway has helped to pave the way, I think, to lots of possibilities in other avenues.

ETA: I also don't think Clay is in a hurry to find a new career project, I feel that everything he does from now on will be subject to how it will impact on his time with Parker. I feel that Clay has already achieved more than his wildest dreams in terms of his singing career and his biggest dream of all was having a child to raise. He's going to be the kind of father he never had.

Oooh, I

OCOCE

and DSIAFCD and AIW are all still needing to be done? Christmas carols in Feb don't bother me... especially DSIAFCD since it says right in the title that you should listen to it other than just in the holiday season...

And, AUGH, STUBBLE!CLAY!!!

*staggers around wildly before regaining control of self*

and those shots of him and Quiana and Angela were hott!

What does OCOCE stand for? (I am truly hopeless with acronyms !)

Even if you have seen this before, it is worth a second look.

The Odd Couple - BFF

ETA: Thanks Gibby ! Adding to the Glossary now....

Fear, well, I must concede my James Dean impressions are drawn from common perception and not from any reliable source. I just had a look at his page at Wikipedia, and while it talks about his romance with Pier Angeli, it seems he was largely involved in gay relationships, although there is also strong implication that it was to get ahead in the "trade". I know Wikipedia isn't to be considered the most reliable source, but then it is usually written up (I understand) by dedicated person/s. Some things we may never know.

I agree with you about his immense talent. Such a terrible tragedy to lose him so young. I saw a documentary about Alec Guinness, who predicted James Dean would die if he got into that new sports car. This is the way Alec G. tells it:

Dean had just bought a 1955 silver Porsche, when he encountered Sir Alec Guinness, Grace Kelly, and Louis Jourdan outside a restaurant. He showed them his new Porsche, and bragged that it could do "a hundred and fifty." Guinness, thinking that the sports car looked dangerous, warned Dean never to get in it, and predicted that if he did, he would be dead within a week.

Source:

http://www.seeing-stars.com/Immortalized/JamesDean.shtml

Thanks for that link, his voice and his humanitarian activities are what interests me. I have a strong sense of Clay being involved in something huge that is not in the entertainment field, and I mean really huge, bigger than TBAF and UNICEF because he wants a better world for his kids. I hope I live long enough to witness it.

keepingfaith, those four are the high profile ones and I can't come up with anyone else either. It would be fair to assume that she (arguably THE most glamourous actress of her day) was also close friends with the makeup artist, the hairdresser, the couturier .... professions many gay men are drawn to and excel in. Her relationship with Michael Jackson .. hm I think they understood each other. There is no way to know the depth of Michael's issues but I can see, at least superficially, why they supported each other against the world; that's another relationship that ET felt safe in because it was a male person who didn't appear to chase after women.

ETA:

Heidiho and Fear, here's what I'm given to believe....testosterone powers sexual drive in both men and women, but females have a much lesser dose of this potent male hormone. Testosterone can be prescribed for women to counter certain serious female conditions (such as endometriosis) and when considering testosterone therapy, women are warned in advance that they may develop masculine "symptoms" such as a deeper voice, facial hair and/or acne, and an increase in sexual drive. So given a situation where two healthy, young adults have raging testosterone, I'd say they are likely to be prone to more frequent sexual activity and fewer headache excuses! One gay guy told me he popped out briefly to pick up some bread and milk, returned with a new male "friend" and that was their first and last encounter. I've heard other similar stories told, but never regarding a hetero couple, although no doubt, that happens too - I've just not been told about it! Anyway, I think it's why there's a perception that gay men are typically more sexually active and some may be considered promiscuous. Whatever the case and while I love a good laugh at a naughty joke, the thing that least interests me about a person is their sex life, and I am often just flabbergasted by people's need to KNOW about the sex life of a celebrity. I see it as absolutely none of my business and totally support Clay in his desire for his personal life to be private. (p.s. I have a condition that, according to my doctor, would benefit from testosterone replacement therapy but I said no way jose, I don't want to have to start shaving my face!).

Because it's personal life and I have always considered myself a private person.

Clay Aiken - 3rd October 2008

I read ages ago that the AIDS cause was close to Elizabeth Taylor's heart because all of her best girlfriends were... gay guys. Because she was so stunningly beautiful, women were insecure around her and hetero men all wanted to sleep with her. Bonding with the gay men in her life meant she had genuine, life-long friends who adored her (as gay men seem to adore beautiful women) yet she never had to worry about their relationship changing or becoming complicated in any way.

ldyjocelyn:

This looks like an "ambush" video to me, but I love the way Ruben handles it. Answers that are short, sweet, and to the point...good for Ruben.

Thanks for posting that vid. I love Ruben, so glad he and Clay are still great friends. Although I would have obviously preferred Clay to win, I am glad that if Clay had to be the runner-up, that Ruben was the winner! I don't follow his career at all but I just like to know he's doing well and is still pals with Clay.

If anyone is going somewhere special and wants new ideas for shoes, these from Japan might help you stand out in the crowd...

http://www.joelmackey.com/entertainment/fa...shions2007.html

luckiest1, a friend, who is also having a birthday TODAY Feb 17, sent me this about the 1960s, i.e. the decade you were born ....

TAKE ME BACK TO THE 60s

http://objflicks.com/TakeMeBackToTheSixties.htm

You can also thicken soup with rolled-oats, I think you call it oat-meal. If unsure, just heat a small amount of soup in a small saucepan, when hot, put in a dessert spoon (or less) of oat-meal and cover the saucepan, stove off or VERY low. Leave for 5 minutes to thicken

I used to add rice to my dog's food of meat and vegetables. Now I have replaced the rice with oatmeal. Much simpler and she likes it. She gets a bit of rice from what i cook for myself.

Not sure if I have mentioned this before but I watched a current affairs type show and a man said that he lost a huge amount of weight without eating any less or exercising any more. The only thing he did differently was to remove sugar from his diet.

Sugar is hard to do without once you have acquired a taste for it BUT you can very, very slowly reduce it so that you become accustomed to eating only half as much as you do now. I think life is too short to deprive yourself of certain things you really enjoy but it is just a matter of balancing things, I mean, life IS too short but then do you want to shorten it even more by eating too much of the stuff that has been proven to create serious health problems when you reach your middle years?

I recently went on a chocolate binge when my favorite Tim Tams were hugely discounted at the supermarket because they were introducing brand new varieties of it and so I had to buy one of everything to try them out and I loved ALL the new stuff, dammit But now that I have gotten that out of the way, I probably won't be eating it again for at least couple of months.

It's hard, luckiest but it's very doable, i.e. reducing the sugar intake slowly... and add fruit instead. Unless, of course, oatmeal is the one thing you really REALLY enjoy with sugar, so just remove sugar from OTHER things you usually eat, just reserve it for your oatmeal. SEE how I do deals with myself.... but it works for me.

You can also thicken soup with rolled-oats, I think you call it oat-meal. If unsure, just heat a small amount of soup in a small saucepan, when hot, put in a dessert spoon (or less) of oat-meal and cover the saucepan, stove off or VERY low. Leave for 5 minutes to thicken

I used to add rice to my dog's food of meat and vegetables. Now I have replaced the rice with oatmeal. Much simpler and she likes it. She gets a bit of rice from what i cook for myself.

I wish I was a crafts person like so many of you. It took me most of yesterday to paint a few pieces of wood for a game I'm making. Today I'm going to try to stencil numbers on the pieces. If that doesn't work I'll be printing numbers and gluing them on the pieces.

I am a closet-crafter. Most of my pieces of "art" can't be revealed to anyone unless I know for sure they don't know which end of a needle needs a length of thread and are easily impressed. Very occasionally, something turns out okay, and so it gives the false impression that I can actually sew. I also once created a knitted piano keyboard scarf and you know, it was 80%+ completed but I got distracted at work and never finished it. I also wanted to make a long scarf with the two theatrical faces of comedy and tragedy, one on each end, but of course I never even started. Let's just say I am a shameless pseudo-crafter.

In Sydney, one of the most incredible pieces of art I have seen was done by a woman who used quilting principles/techniques to create wall hangings that depicted landscapes, completely made with different textured fabrics.

Thanks to everyone who posted information about Leonard Cohen. He was touring here during the worst of the bushfires and donated A$200K (approx US$130K) to the Red Cross Appeal. Even if one had to be here to feel the full impact (and he had actually performed at a location that was subsequently destroyed), that's a remarkable gesture from someone of his age who was forced back to work as a result of being scammed of considerable retirement funds by a trusted associate. My interest in his music was renewed with the XFactor 2008 winner's song, but my fascination for him is growing more. Someone posted this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf36v0epfmI

A young and incredibly hawt looking LC.

Regarding the "hate" posts at the OFC and my take on it

It has come to my attention that the analogy I used wasn't understood.

I accept responsibility for that since it is primarily the writer's fault if the target audience doesn't get it.

Basically, I used an analogy about two extremes to illustrate a point: Obesity and anorexia - these conditions appear to be about food, yet they are not.

Similarly (to me), the haters who can't let go, their problem isn't about Clay, it's about something we don't know about. It is easier for them to blame Clay than to look within. It's not fair to Clay, but it's a human flaw.

Hence my conclusion ... that what appears to be a simple solution isn't (i.e. eat more/eat less/leave the fandom - as appropriate). So, to me, it is not possible to know since one is not walking in the other person's shoes.

Having said that, someone has helped to explain to me why some fans are less tolerant of those haters, and so...I can see the other side somewhat clearer now. Nothing is black and white and no experience is ever identical, or irrelevant.

The reason for my suggestion to let go: reacting to their vile rantings simply gave them more power. "We" are in a happier place in the fandom than they are, and perhaps because of that, it would be easier to take the "high road" (as I saw it) in terms of letting go of our anger towards them. I cannot imagine how awful it must be, to be stuck in THEIR shoes.

My position in this matter could also have been because I was/am less subjective because I was/am less vested in Clay. I am somewhat hesitant about saying that because it may be risky if someone, who actually agrees with me in principle, feels that I have dared to suggest they could also be less vested in Clay than others who remain intolerant of the haters who are angrily stuck in limbo. Needless to say again, but I will anyway - nothing is black or white, it is always varying degrees of gray, and no offence is intended.

I have taken this opportunity to further explain myself because I hate being misunderstood. If I am still misunderstood, I may need to give up and seek out a refresher course in communication. One thing that HAS challenged me on occasion is the American style (I guess) of communication by some members. I've tried my best to use American terms and even American spelling (you know, "when in Rome" etc) but old-habits-die-hard. Communication is probably the world's most serious problem, and sometimes I am long-winded and repetitive simply because I am concerned about ambiguity or worse still, a complete misunderstanding. Here's a personal, true story:

luckiest1

Old age begins at forty-six, according to the common opinion.

CICERO, De Senectute, c. 44 BC

Hey Paula by Paul and Paula was the #1 song when you were born!

luckiest1, I was about to ask you to post your broccoli recipe in the cook's corner thread but I see you have already done it. Thanks, I started growing organic broccoli a few weeks ago so it's great timing.

annabear: I like the name Sir-Robin, which you were considering...or maybe Sir-Bear, so that people will know when you are referring to the new baby rather than Spam!

Claytonic You think THIS is agressive and angry? You don't know me very well then. My temperature didn't even rise. I wasn't even passive agressive let alone agressive and I can do both with the best of them.

Actually, I wasn't referring to you.

Yes people are entitled to talk about anything they please here. Frankly you can continue to talk about it if you so choose. I like the subject and can postho with the best of them.

I completely understand your position. Others here share it. But I lost patience 2 weeks after this thing began. We are now entering 6 month territory. I don't see myself softening any time soon. This is a Clay board - there's no doubt there will be people having a variety of opinions. I wasn't trying to talk you out of yours or tell you to STFU - was just unwilling to except your analysis of how this was affecting me and my life. .

Well, my understanding about THIS Clay board was from what you and others have said, that all you want to do is celebrate Clay, and I believed it. Therefore, I didn't understand how dredging up negative stuff and keeping it alive fits into the equation. I wasn't here in 2006 but I was here for the coming-out stuff, and it did take a day or so to sink in but after that I was and am just happy for Clay that he's happy and the only negativity I feel is sadness for those who so far have been unable to move forward with anticipation for "the best that's yet to come".

I was initially answering Fear's post, and since I like and respect Fear enormously, I expected a discussion and exchange of opinions but NOT with the level of aggression that transpired with others. Fear wasn't involved at all.

You say there are others who share my position yet no one agreed with me, and it didn't occur to me until right now that perhaps there are those who feel intimidated and uncomfortable about expressing an opinion that does not match those of the aggressors. Frankly, I almost felt bullied into retreating. If you want me to never disagree with certain members of this forum, tell me now because if there are some rigid unspoken rules, I'd like to know what they are.

As for your analogies - they didn't compute with me.

I'm a diabetic and know I need to lose weight. I try and I fail. What I don't do blame is my favorite restaurant whose only job is to give me what I pay for or the supermarket for having the nerve to have cake on their shelves. I don't see where people have any self awareness that this is their problem to resolve.

Actually, they compute exactly in terms of the point I was trying to make, which was basically, regardless of whether or not you (for example) blame your favorite restaurant for your health/weight issues, no one knows what it feels like to walk in your shoes with regards to your health and the implication from me was that any finger pointing is unfair and cruel, as unfair and cruel as it was for Clay to be thrashed by people who have no idea what someone in his position has gone through in the last 6 years.

So what I was trying to say was I don't know what it is like to wear the shoes of someone who has a problem with something I don't understand.

Hopefully, I am a little clearer now.

OH MY GOD, David Soul. Don't give up on us Baby. You know...I loved him when I was young..forget Starsky..I was a Hutch girl.

OK, on this I agree with you! I adored Hutch and just went to find this song on YouTube. It's there, I'd forgotten how good looking he was and great he sounds with this song.

But I'm not upset. There's the difference.

I guess different words have different meanings for people. If someone goes on and on and on about something, to me, they are upset about it. Otherwise, they wouldn't be using up so much negative and aggressive energy to express themselves.

But I'm not upset. There's the difference. I actually don't mind talking about this crazy ass fandom. It has long been a fun topic for me..just go search the clackhouse with the term Clorilla - or hell, have you been reading here for the past 2 years? I started the thread at CH years ago..even before the real crazy hit in 2006. You're trying to cure me when I don't want to be cured. If I come to you AS YOU DID and say..oh this really bothers me and why are these people doing this and I can't sleep at night..then you can throw my words back in my face. But to me this is just chatter and I will continue to talk about it until I'm bored or you're bored and ready to move on or everyone wakes up in the morning and shoots us.

As for 'curing you when you don't want to be cure', when you said all you wanted to do was celebrate Clay, I took you at your word.

Let's get the other facts right.

Firstly, I had ONE experience with negative comments about the photobooth pics, and I mentioned it. You told me what to do and I did it. Problem solved. I was "upset" for maybe 10 minutes, not months. It was OVER.

I never said anything about not sleeping at night, quite the contrary, I am often listening to him singing when I fall asleep.

Edited to add the above

OK, I've only just had that light-bulb moment.

Some people feel entitled to go on about those who can't just build a bridge and get over it at the OFC.

Now that I understand that, I'll STFU.

Well I'm telling you - I agree with you, ncgurrl. Apples and oranges. The people who are still ragging on Clay are there for one reason only and we all know what it is - like couchie said - most are just afraid (or not allowed) to call them on it, and so it continues.

It doesn't matter what their reason is. What matters is YOUR reason for allowing it to matter to you. It's not bothering Clay, so it doesn't bother me.

Then why do you keep the subject going? You seem to feel you've made your point.

And how do you know it doesn't bother Clay? That's a pretty bold statement of fact.

Why do YOU keep the subject going?

As for Clay, I don't know for sure what's going on in his head except that he made some choices for himself. He has also made some choices about allowing people to post what they want. I accept his decision.

The difference to me is I'm not upset not do they weigh on my mind. I don't even read the OFC message board or seek these people out. And really if not for suffering from a bit of lastworditis (which I think is rule number 2 here at FCA - see? not perfect) at the moment I would have been done after post number 1 on the subject. I honestly don't care if people don't like Clay but if they have the nerve to live up in his fan club and send me letters I WILL say say something about it andI do not feel I have to be kumbaya or understanding about them. Frankly I'm just responding to your reasoning on several issues including why I should be understanding about why they are like they are and that there are more important things in the world etc and why that doesn't really compute with me when it comes to this issue or life in general. As for Clay, I'm quite sure he isn't losing sleep, doesn't make it alright for these people to have their say with impunity. He's a better person that I will ever be.

I think you are assuming emotional reactions where frankly I think people are blowing off steam. It has long been something that has worked here. I doubt wandacleo or ncgurrrl are dreaming about the OFC right now and I know I won't be. It's pretty much how we got through 2006 with our sanity intact.

Couchie, you were the one who told me how to deal with negative comments about Clay when it was upsetting me.

I took your advice.

It worked for me.

So I am passing it on.

The need to go on and on about Clay fans that can't let it go is no different to the way they go on and on about THEIR feelings. There is a simple solution, but it involves choice. I chose to take your advice.

Well I'm telling you - I agree with you, ncgurrl. Apples and oranges. The people who are still ragging on Clay are there for one reason only and we all know what it is - like couchie said - most are just afraid (or not allowed) to call them on it, and so it continues.

It doesn't matter what their reason is. What matters is YOUR reason for allowing it to matter to you. It's not bothering Clay, so it doesn't bother me.

Unfortunately, I DO know this person from Adam...and I can absolutely guarantee you that NOTHING she has ever done was for Clay or anyone else~it was for her. In many ways, I suppose we all do a lot of that....we just, in our heart of hearts, understand that is the case. And I think she does too, really.

One thing at least~she knows me well enough NOT to send me that letter.

RIGHT ON!

Basically we are all self-serving. I have made the biggest ever donation in my life to the Bush fire appeal, and that's because it makes me feel better about having a roof over my head and having everything I need within my reach.

I guess I know when I've be told.

ncgurrl, I am not necessarily saying I am right and you are wrong because your experience and your feelings are no less valid than mine. Just that I am just as frustrated as you are, but in the opposite direction. Hope that makes sense.

ETA: Edited because I accidentally typed wandacleo instead of ncgurrl. Apologies!