jmh123

Part 2:

Sure it's fine to speculate about things, but it isn't fine to have a fricken collective existential meltdown over a piece of unverified, and, it turns out, false information.

And it isn't fine to then turn around and malign Kim Locke. No one knows what role she had in this either.

Hmm - does anyone think that this fandom must have the messiest hair and the worst makeup in fandom - you know, because people never seem to look in mirrors, especially when assigning guilt.

I go to bed early and you guys party all night.

<snip>

I really dislike cheese as a description of his music since I also like James Taylor and Johnnie Mathis who might also be described as such. However I never really liked Lawrence Welk and his show so maybe I'm not as sappy as I thought.

I went and looked at the Billboard article again this morning. Something stuck out to me. The title clearly suggests that this is all still in a "will it or won't it happen stage" when they put a question mark at the end. It seems to me that Kim was just stating that they had discussed it, bandied about a possible title for it and that if it materializes, it would be Spring.

Well, waddayaknow, alls we had to do was wait a couple days to find out the truth of the thing. What a concept, huh?

When I peeked out for 2 minutes I was SO disappointed in a post I read from someone I have such regard for and so the last so called expert in Clay Nation bit the dust. How will I muddle through life without them. But that's my question as well, where is the fucking leadership.

I think what disappointed me most about the whole debacle is the ugly, petulant, and demanding face that the Clay Nation revealed. Some people I wasn't surprised about at all, but there were a few who definitely lost my respect, maybe permanently, because I expected some leadership from them and didn't see it. It's a sad, sad situation, and hopefully it will die a quick and quiet death with a minimum of fan interference. Yeah, I crack myself up.

I've often thought that Clay just isn't cool enough for some of his fans and that it bugs the crap out of them.

When he started adding the "I'm not cool" banter to his show, I really did take that as snark toward the fans who need for him to be cool. I'm sure it probably went over their heads, though. In my opinion, Clay Aiken IS cool, even if he is a total dork. I love cool dorks.

I so agree with you both, ldyjocelyn and jamar. To me, his "I'm not cool" was a very clear and direct statement, though told in a funny, lighthearted way. I think he was saying, "Look--I sing sloooow songs. I'm NOT Justin Timberlake." But so many people still seem to believe he'd be a rock star if only RCA would let him.

Yes, it's not always easy to be a Clay Aiken fan. People may make fun of him. People may make fun of you. It's not like being a fan of, say, Usher. I do think some fans want Clay to be cool so they won't have to feel embarrassed or defensive about their fandom.

However, Clay is who is his, with all his own unique quirks and idiosyncracies. I believe he is ambitious, but not to the point of changing himself into someone he doesn't recognize. In fact, I suspect that's why he had the first "This is the Night" video scrapped, because he didn't quite connect to the edgy, angsty image it portrayed. He seems to be completely comfortable with being a dork, even if it means he isn't the most popular act in the universe.

Some fans, however, seem to have trouble reconciling who he is with who they want him to be.

I was not proud of the fandom these last few days, or a few of its "leaders." Some should really consider the concept of "apology" to Clay. That's all I'm going to say about that.

Well I was vilified on the Clayboard for suggesting that some folks might owe Clay an apology.

I am certainly not speaking to those who merely expressed concern, or even dislike for the idea of this tour. I'm speaking to those who used words like 'loser' and 'career suicide' and 'opportunist' and 'fool', both about Clay and his friends. Especially when these things were flung at him before he ever uttered (or typed) a single word about the subject. If anybody really believes that these words aren't hurtful and mean - that these actions don't bear apologizing for... well I'll just say I hope you never consider yourself my fan.

Here's a morning highlight reel of sorts--all quotes, no comments from me:

I have to rein myself in because I so wanted to tell some people that instead of the thank you thank you , they really should be saying sorry sorry. Seems I am not alone in that.

I did want to suggest a poll for the next topic of angst. Instead of the usual angst starters, it would be nice to see someone from this board start it. May i suggest "Why is Clay going to see a play in NYC, shouldn't he be working on that next cd for us? What a slacker." Somehoe I think I might be too late for that one.

Hmm - does anyone think that this fandom must have the messiest hair and the worst makeup in fandom - you know, because people never seem to look in mirrors, especially when assigning guilt.

*puts on choir robe and shouts 'Amen!'*

See, I think what gets me is that there's a NEED out there to blame someone for the tour announcement. Some are going to blame KLo; some will blame her manager or publicist; and heck, somehow Clay will probably get some blame too. (How did Ruben escape unscathed?) I just can't place blame on any one person though, for one big reason -- I just don't know how this all transpired. There are many reasonable possibilities, many of them already suggested on this board. And yeah, it could be KLo overstepped her boundaries. But unless I get to actually talk to either KLo or Clay in the next few years about this, I'll never know what happened. Therefore, no blame will come from me.

I know that humor usually follows angst. But I miss the good old days when snark was directed at ourselves, not cheap shots at Clay's family and friends.

For the people who think he reads the boards, if he does - he reads ALL the shit.

And speaking of the evil Houston Posse --- a few of Perusing One's pics from Ft. Myers:

I personally would never hold Kim any more personally accountable for her press than I would hold Clay personally accountable for his (I mean how then would I hate Roger?!? /snerk)... or anyone else who speaks with the media.

I really wish some of the fans could realize that not only are they HIS decisions to make, he is the one that has the most and the best information on which to base HIS decisions. I don't think there is one among us that feels we've never made a bad decision, but usually we only get second guessed by possibly a few people after we have actually made that bad decision. Unfortunately ,Clay gets second guessed by lots of know it all fans quite frequently when he hasn't even made a decision.

At one time I was proud of the power that I perceived that Clay's fans had and that they wanted to use it to support him. Now I'm disappointed in the power they think they have and that they seem to want to use it to control him. I know this is a small percentage of his fans, but man they are so vocal. I'm glad that Clay is a strong man.

I do now believe that blog was pure serendipity as lilyshine called it. But damn if it didn't shine a brighter light on ugly.

Is it time to smash these up yet and make weapons?

Play, BWAH!

ClayNation is graceless. I discovered that through the ATDW fiasco and I believe it more fully now. Yep we can get together and do some amazing things for Clay now and then but it's simply not enough to cover the crap.

I don't know either Claygasm but they are on their fuckin' high horses now and the nasty stuff is now starting on her TWoP thread. ClayNation is graceless. I discovered that through the ATDW fiasco and I believe it more fully now. Yep we can get together and do some amazing things for Clay now and then but it's simply not enough to cover the crap.

Yup - and they are talking about is as FACT!!

I hate this fandom sometimes. No maybe not hate - but I sure as hell am embarrassed of this fandom. And you know what happens? It is talked about AS FACT by certain people on some boards who some believe really know what they are talking about and then those quotes are taken to other boards where it is then taken as fact and before you know it, if you don't believe it is fact, you are an idiot!

We saw it pre-ATDW. I hate that we're seeing again. Will they ever learn? We as fans know nothing unless Clay tell us - and even then we know sometimes he doen't get his facts straight!

The lovely Karen Eh? forgot to tell us about this:

Lecherous Broads_He's not that innocent, Part I

Lecherous Broads_He's not that innocent, Part II

Bites tongue really, really hard.

Really hard.

Have I mentioned that I love you guys?

ETA: yeah that, play. I delete a lot of stuff too.

Someone accidentally linked this article to me today in an e-mail, http://www.realitytvworld.com/news/clay-ai...d-wins-1836.php. There are a lot of quotes from the Time article, and some fannish sounding stuff, but also some thoughts I found really interesting, like the Aretha comments. I was surprised how different the Time quotes sound to me now. When I think about this and the Classics banter, "So that's how you get on the radio, you sing about butts," when I compare the MTV show the other night with Clay's shows, then I see that it's really the same dilemma and there was nothing veiled about it then. Clay won. "Put some balls into it," says Clive. I can just see him saying it. And not recognizing that there's somewhere between "balls" and Manilow. This time Clay didn't win, but he still put himself into both the album and the tour, and I was impressed. I would never doubt for a minute that he could sell 100% Velveeta and enjoy doing it, but I think he also likes a challenge and likes to learn. He may not be introspective, but he is complex and a mature thinker. I don't think anyone needs to worry about him sacrificing art.

But the man loves his friends and he really doesn't want to be as big a star as some of his fans want him to be, and he does love him some cheese and glory noting and some more cheese. He was discovered on American Idol, Hometown Connection was his baby, he wrote (and I loved) the JNT05 story--this is who he is. I wish people would stop being afraid that he is who he is, and the kind of art he relates to, but give him a little credit too. I wish people would realize he is smarter and more knowledgeable about his own career than 99.5% of his fans, and just relax, get out of the management biz and settle down for a long and varied and entertaining decades long career. Sure it's fine to speculate about things, but it isn't fine to have a fricken collective existential meltdown over a piece of unverified, and, it turns out, false information.

And it isn't fine to then turn around and malign Kim Locke. No one knows what role she had in this either.

Yeah, you better keep that thought here. I've been moderated into oblivion for expressing that thought elsewhere. *shrug*

I half expect to someday be moderated elsewhere for what I say here.

Oh, but it has happened, and more than once (what is it gals, about five times now??) Cause we are EEEEEEEvil.

Thigh Time.

Yup, those are some "thighs dripping with character" for sure!

And the calf ain't half-bad either!

Whoa- I'm on top! As a newbie, I'm still not sure if I should be thrilled or disgusted by this situation. (Now, if I was on top of Clay, I know EXACTLY how- and WHAT- I'd be feeling!)

And you are on top--of the calf, no less!!! Now don't start humping it like a dog. We don't smut here.

It's war, I tell you!

Is it time to smash these up yet and make weapons?

Playbiller, you are cracking me up lately!!!

I've decided ( and of course, that's all that matters) that Clay actually is an addiction and what we are seeing now is people in the throes of withdrawal.

Addicts seek out other sources for their highs when they can't obtain their drug of choice. I wonder if ranting and raving, exploding heads and fan wars provide enough stimulation to mimic the Aiken high?

Or are they just poor substitutes?

As with most drugs, once the Aiken is again freely available, will the addicts return for their fix? Stay tuned as the drama unfolds.

By the way, if anyone sees any primo tickets for LV or the Sedaka Tribute being given up by fans who "just can't support" him anymore, let me know.

BWAH!! and on the serious note, yes, I think so.

Is it safe to love Clay again?....Yipee.....

This was hysterical...

For some reason this made me laugh the loudest of all.

I wonder if any of the fans who were stating extreme stuff about the future of their fandom and so forth, or hypothesizing album disaster, feel bad about getting all worked up over a possibility without waiting to get the facts, or turning his OFC into a battleground yet again. Nah. Probably not.

laughn said:

Thing is, you can't live someone else's life for them. You only get your own.

Back later, last day here, lots of last minute things to do before I leave.......for Houston. That other place? It's sinking in and beginning to freak me out a little.

Things FullyFunctional has saved me from writing:

I, too, find the gagging and puking disrespectful to Clay, Ruben AND KLo. How would Clay fans feel if they visited a message board for the other two AI alumni involved and saw a bunch of folks gagging and puking over the idea of their idol touring with Clay? There would be much gnashing of teeth; I can tell you that!

It doesn't bother me at all that some folks are not crazy about the tour idea. While I love all three artists and would love to see them all in concert, I can certainly understand that some don't think this tour is a very good idea. But I don't understand the intensity of some peoples' anguish and the weeping and wailing. If the tour sounds like a dud to you, why not just skip this one and wait for the next one? It's not a requirement to attend every single tour Clay has.

Until Clay releases a new CD that is supported by his label, I don't see him as able to really carry a tour on his own right now. Unfortunately, he's not really gaining a ton of new fans at the moment, and there will be natural attrition in any fandom. While Ruben and Kim are probably not drawing huge crowds, they are drawing different crowds, and perhaps the nostalgic idea of AI2 redux will draw in some general AI fans, which may lead to Clay gaining some new fans. I am not a career strategist type- I have no interest in telling Clay how to run his career- but even I can see that it is crucial for Clay to build his fanbase back up. Until he gets that next CD out, and unless the CD sees significant label support, it can't hurt for him to tour with some other folks.

Though I am a Clay fan first and foremost, it does bother me to see some attitudes of "Clay is too good to deign to tour with those also-rans, Ruben and Kim." It bothers me because Kim and Ruben are Clay's friends; at least that's the message Clay has given us thus far, and I hate to see fans trash Clay's friends. It also bothers me because I find it hypocritical. Can you just imagine how angry the fans would be if they read the same sentiment about Clay from Kim and Ruben fans? Do unto others, and all... If I were Clay and read the posts about this at the OFC, I would be deeply offended and would probably push the idea just out of spite. And add Carmen to the roster. :medium-smiley-070:

And I fricking LOVE how this has finally made its tortuous yet inevitable crawl back to Evil Clive Conspiracy Planet - evidently Clay is (theoretically as yet) planning these concerts because Clive/RCA has pulled the next CD already.

Heheh. Well on another board, it's not Clive, but the AI machine that is evil and pulling the strings, forcing him to do this. That Kimberley has zero to do with AI is irrelevant, donchaknow.

<snip>

As for the bloggers and various other scumbags - well they are being handed all the ammo they need on a silver platter. Again. And the wheels on the bus go 'round and 'round.

How many times will his "defenders" and "career managers" have to do that before they catch on???

3. He's typing and retyping his blog so as not to piss anyone off...

Or typing and retyping his blog to carefully construe the secretly coded message that will provide definitive proof for a full range of conspiracy theories. He's probably selecting which words to put in all caps and which commas to put out of place so as to lead his clever fans down the secret path of inside knowledge.

FCA rocks!!!

Another week, another new thread

I believe he will blog by.....

2009!

heh

He may be pasty white, but I love him. Stand back from the bronzer Clay.

Couchie & Co. -- I'll never forget the BBQ during the NAT where a whole bunch of "y'all" (hee) were standing together talking and it made me ridiculously happy for no good reason, I suppose. Just that it was such a rare sight at a fan party. No Ethel, though. I guess it was KAndre, Couchie, Toffee Brown, and berkeley? C-Girl, maybe??

brought this over from last thread. JMH..oh that was ebirdie's pig pickin' party. I lost this photo in the great computer crash of 06 but I think it was me, Toffee Brown, CGirl, Fruit, and SisterLove. KAndre, were you there? Surely I'd remember the bling? heee.

Fruit!! SisterLove!! That's right!! I met them again in Baltimore, JNT. Maybe KAndre wasn't there, or berk. Was PodSoda there? I can't remember. Anyway, it was beautimous.

Thanks for bringing my post over. I was a little lost.

editing because JNT and JNaT are not the same

All those People shots are photoshopped. I can't put my finger on it either (heh) but I agree, playbiller. They don't look like him. Something is off.

Clayharmony--very nice post. And Thankful, I like your verse. I think I'll sing it a bit tomorrow myself.

Couchie & Co. -- I'll never forget the BBQ during the NAT where a whole bunch of "y'all" (hee) were standing together talking and it made me ridiculously happy for no good reason, I suppose. Just that it was such a rare sight at a fan party. No Ethel, though. I guess it was KAndre, Couchie, Toffee Brown, and berkeley? C-Girl, maybe??

Makes sense to me.

This is an inteview that Ruben and Kim did just this past April - only 5 months ago. I don't know how anyone could watch this and get the impression from either Rube or KLo that there isn't great affection between the three of them or that they weren't extremely close.

Bookwhore... thanks for the Youtube... it speaks volumes.

Indeed. Thanks for that link, and anyone who has any doubts about how they all feel about one another should check this video out.

It is my understanding from local people here that know her, that they are not that friendly anymore. They've sorta gone their separate ways.

Don't really care about local sources since I don't know them. Kinda meaningless to me. If you feel it is true then you can bask in your knowledge that Clay is stringing her up right now. It's not my place to do it. I'm sure there is an audience for those who would like the juicy details of the local knowledge but I don't think it's here.

Let me word couchie on this! Why in the world should we be interested in local gossip, or believe that we've learned anything about Kim and Clay's relationship from it? Someone could ask me about my sister's relationship with her husband and you'd get a really different story from me than you would from her. Am I right or is she? Rumor and gossip are meaningless--ask Clay about that sometime.

Anybody wanna get schmoopie for a minute?? Berkeley posted this in the "Better to Give" thread at CH:

Boy to share 'Our Friend' with a new set of friends

Boy to share 'Our Friend' with new set of friends

Monday, September 10, 2007

By JD MALONE

The Express-Times

NAZARETH | A 6-year-old boy used the last days of his summer vacation over the Labor Day weekend to raise money and buy copies of the book "Our Friend Mikayla."

Dante Requena, a first-grader at Shafer Elementary, hosted a yard sale and lemonade stand for two days and collected enough cash to buy 36 copies of the book written by Mikayla Resh's third-grade classmates at Lower Nazareth Elementary.

The book chronicles the friendship between the authors and Mikayla and shows her classmates have much in common with her even though she is disabled. The students drew the book's pictures and wrote the story.

The book was published in 2006 by "American Idol" runner-up Clay Aiken's Bubel/Aiken Foundation.

Dante's mother, Debbie Requena, shot down his request to catch tadpoles at Jacobsburg Environmental Center and sell them to raise money.

She told Dante if he wanted to raise money, he needed to come up with another idea. He thought of the yard sale and then picked buying the books because his mother is one of Mikayla's home health nurses.

Dante believes children everywhere will enjoy the book. His favorite part is the page depicting Aiken on "American Idol."

That page was drawn and written by Logan Houptley, who also happened to stop by Dante's yard sale. Houptley bought a cookie, handed Dante $50 and told him to keep the change.

Kristy Barnes, president of the Bubel/Aiken Foundation, said the foundation has sold more than 2,500 copies of the book so far and ordered another 5,000. The foundation also uses the book as part of a K-12 curriculum for inclusion it created.

"It is great to see children embracing that message and understanding the importance of communicating it to others by creating the book and donating copies of the book," Barnes said.

Debbie Requena said they are still working on where to send all 36 books. The foundation's goal is to have one in every elementary school and library across America.

Dante has an idea of where a few copies will go.

"Canada, Bermuda and Antarctica," Dante said.

Reporter JD Malone can be reached at 610-759-4599 or by e-mail at jdmalone@express-times.com.

Hey clayzor!! love and hugs

YSRN - based on clothes alone (his and Angela's and Quiana's), I think that first one is from Pala.

Yup, first one is RHW at Pala, opening the second act. I wanna know where the second came from.

eta: hey look top of the page...and just to be me I will say...I am truly honored to be in this positions..I will thank all the post hos before me that made this honor possible...

BWAH!!!

I think I'll save my reaction til there's some solid information about what I'm reacting to.

A little interlude. I've narrowed down my favorite picture list, and I have to choose 2 from these. Indulge me while I post them, so I can decide more easily, OK? Or maybe I'll just stare for a week or two.

Thnx.

I'm sure there will always be those that think he's being forced to do what he doesn't want to do because what he's doing isn't what they want him to do. If you get my drift....

I do indeed, and so true.

There really isn't anything you can do--that's the thing. Be a friend, say you care, stay away, don't get sucked in. I had for a fairly short time a lover who was addicted--to alcohol, sometimes to cocaine, sometimes to crank (crystal meth), which is some nasty stuff. He would lie, steal from me, do almost anything for his drugs. I went to a few Al-Anon meetings and got the message pretty quickly, and I just let him go.

I expect it's a lot more painful and more difficult when it's a lifelong friend or a family member, and a lot harder to disengage.

I was quite the bad girl when I was a teen, but it was a much simpler time. I never even saw an alcoholic beverage til I was finished high school, much less drugs - LOL. I did start smoking at 14, and that's a bad habit I've never been able to kick.

Anyways, I feel for ya couchie meeting taking that journey into the past, and being reminded of all that happened to people you care about. And YSRN, GRRR. Must be a pisser with those siblings. I know I never understood that expression from the Bible to "harden your heart" until that relationship, and then, when I started teaching college I had to perfect it. LOL.

Well excuuuuuuuse me. I stand corrected.

Sorry again--did you get to the part where I apologized and said I was grumpy yet?? :F_05BL17blowkiss:

Oh fuck, so now I'm being punished by being on top. YAY, I'm on top, being on top is cool. I'd like to be on top of Clay.

jmh -- all good points. I actually think we're agreeing, just in my case, I'm not doing a good job of it!

:F_05BL17blowkiss:

I know. I'll just shut up now until I'm in a better mood. I just went to another board that used to be my home board, and feel like kissing everyone here now. :F_05BL17blowkiss:

Awwwww, thanks jamar. You made me cry. I spent most of yesterday and into the night and early am at that online compendium of misinformation and agenda-hyping that I hate so much, and I really feel it. I haven't been there in months, and I can really see what it does to me.

jmh, I mostly agree with you about the "seriously done" songs. I think the one I might disagree with you is IWKWLI, mainly because that was the song where Clay didn't really know who he was going to sing with that night. And I also think that a lot of the songs you mentioned had Clay giving "goofy" looks every once in a while during a particular performance. Therefore, I wonder when those of us listening for the "best of" compilation will notice those things IF we take out the visuals. I know I'm more of a "visual" person (one of the reasons I simply can't watch Hometown Clay -- sorry to those who love that stuff), but taking away watching Clay, the voice shows through a lot more. JMO and that stuff.

I'll grant you IWKWLI, although in the earlier shows he wasn't goofing off on it, doing that schtick. I think I said that, and my list from the latter part of the tour was

Towards the end of the tour, he was doing HYCA and EIH straight, RHW, WISYS with only rare goofing off, ATD, Sorry, MOAM and WY in a very serious little grouping from the stool of seriousness, then back there for LAA and a serious standing BYLM at the end.

If the goal is to find songs that he never ever goofed on once at any show throughout the entire tour, then you'll have to delete WY. But that's a ridiculous standard if you ask me.

And exactly, AIKim (except for the "given what he had to work with part"--I was happy, happy, happy, happy, happy about an ATDW tour). He tries to put a little something in there for everyone.

Clayzor, I hope I'm not coming off as jumping on you. I love you madly, and I hope you know that. I'm just not buying the four songs thing.

Yes, I'm grumpy this morning, why do you ask?