JennaZ

Great post, atinal! In a way, I think many subsequent idols benefited from what the first two sets of contestants accomplished. My favorite duet is the "Can You Feel the Love Tonight?" that he did at that Broadway benefit. (The other singer's name escapes me...Heather Headley?) You had to phenomenal voices working beautifully together. I also enjoy his duets with Quiana quite a bit. You certainly get the sense that they really enjoy making music together. Keeping you in my thoughts, ldyjocelyn.

I hadn't really been following him, but this surprises me, a bit. So many had predicted that Taylor had a more passionate fan base than Clay, and he did seem genuinely popular at the time. However, sales probably did suffer because of 1) the late release, 2) the release of two other Season 5 idols before him, and well, 3) off the show, he comes across as a lounge singer more than ever before. Still, it will be interesting to see if he's able to pick things up in the new year. Great points, Couchie. The competitiveness creates so much animosity. It's always a little sad to watch some of the defections, particularly when its accompanied by vitriol toward Clay. However, interestingly, some find their new idol fandom to be less satisfying down the road. Seems like quite a few of the Bo and Constantine fans came drifting back. Clay on tour is irresistible. LOL! Of course! Because it's so easy to create hit records if you just plug in the formulas. Playbiller has a good point that Ruben didn't get more than Clay, he just different things than Clay, which makes sense because he is..duh!...a different artist. I've always liked Ruben as a person, and thought that he's been a good friend to Clay. I have my doubts as to whether he really has the personality to get to the next level. However, I think he has a great voice that does compliment Clay's well. So true, ldyjocelyn. Isn't it funny how so many of these seem eerily familiar? Just curious. Does anyone know if Taylor's fans are accusing his label of screwing him over in favor of Daughtrey? Seems to me that Chris is pulling a Clay-like sales upset over the winner, and it wouldn't surprise me to see them engaging in the same kind of conspiracy arguments.

I've always loved that poem, jmh123. Thanks for bringing it over. It does seem very applicable to Clay. So people are saying RCA paid for bad reviews? Will wonders never cease? One thing I've always found astonishing is the willingness of people to believe that a publicly held corporation would feel the need to actually spend money to devalue someone they need to make money off. If the label really wanted Clay to fade into obscurity, the cheapest and simplest thing to do would be to simply not produce an album. It's amazing how people just don't get that. I can believe that ATDW might not have been the label's highest priority, or that some executives may not have believed in the project as much as we wish they would. I can imagine a certain amount of miscalculation of the market, underestimation of Clay's potential, or confusion over how best to promote him. I think it's entirely possible that serious mistakes were made. However, I just can't see how it would be in the label's best interest to make a deliberate effort to sabotage Clay in any way. Quite frankly, he's not really a dangerous threat--not to Daughtrey!, Taylor, Justin or any other completely different artist. This notion that Clay's sales must be minimized to protect others is unfathomable, IMHO, and completely laughable to anyone outside the fandom.

Though many of you were turned off, you may be in the minority. According to Media Life: Idol is what it is. I often feel alone in the fandom in that I don't share the hatred that others have for the show. I'm not as excited about it as I once was, but I don't see it as an evil in the world. Is it as innocent as it once was? Probably not, but that's true of every televised competition. The contestants on the latest Survivor are far more saavy than they were on the first. Is it sad that some people make fools of themselves in the early auditions? Sure, but after five seasons, they have no excuse not to know what could await them. And why don't they focus on the good people in these rounds? Because it's the bad people that many want to see right now, and it's why these early rounds typically have such high ratings. Is it manipulative? No, but it is edited--just like every.single.other reality show out there. I work in television, and the things people complain about Idol are really not that different than any other program. Every year since the end of Season 2, Clay fans have been predicting the demise on the show, and every year, the ratings have only gotten higher. But I'll get off my soapbox. I learned long ago that it's futile to argue this point. Great post, atinal. I'd like Clay to write more, because having heard Lover All Alone, I think he has great talent and potential. However, I'm more likely to believe that he has written more because he hasn't felt confident enough, than because he hasn't wanted a share of something he wrote to go to 19 (which seems to be the prevailing pod theory). I agree that if he really had been writing, we would have heard at least one song on one of his demos. I think you're right, Claygasm. It always amazes me what people present as fact, when all we really have is speculation. I've never seen any real evidence that Clay had a complete album that was rejected by the label.

Tee hee... I've been hiding out here. However, maybe I'll sneak back and say "Hi" back. Amazing how quickly The View engagement became news. Looks like there could be quite a bit of promotion for that appearance.

Love the snark, Couchie! So, terribly true! Claymate? I don't use it myself, and I understand why many prefer other terms, but I've always been amazed at the deep-seated hatred some seem to have for it. There are those who seem to want Clay to make it his mission to abolish its use in the press. Huh? It's not that big a deal. Interesting info on the word "snarky," luckiest!

Intriguing find from AgingHippie at the CH: Hmmm... My guess is it'll be in February. I wouldn't be shocked if Clay has much more in the works than his blog let on. I remember that skit! It would be pretty funny, although I'd bet a huge portion of the fandom: 1) Wouldn't recognize themselves if they saw it, or 2) Would angrily post that he was being dismissive and ungrateful.

Isn't that the truth? Often, even great Clack (a terrific television appearance, a great blog, an exciting bit of info) is old news in a day, sometimes in just hours. Like spoiled children, it doesn't take long for fans to lose interest in one thing and start looking for the next. And believe me, fans don't realize just how spoiled they have been. Many, many other fandoms haven't had the often continuous Clack flow Clay has had.

Loved your post, institches! Clay says he is happy. Without knowing everything that's going on in his life and career, who are we to call him a liar? Ansamcw, thanks for bringing over the info regarding airplay. It's certainly worth celebrating! I hate to raise my expectations, but wouldn't it be funny if all those who declared that ATDW was dead and would never get radio support were proved wrong? Wouldn't it be ironic if Clay's career was to take off just at the moment when fans were most doubtful and pessimistic?

To me, the quote suggests that Clay is much more philosophical about his life than many of his fans. He used to say that he liked structure, hated surprises. However, I think his experiences have shown him that things do not always progress according to plan. All you can do is make the best of it as it happens. Despite the fact that he described his mood as "Happy," some seem to see this as a statement of discontent or resignation. However, I think it's one of acceptance, which can be quite liberating, actually. If you accept that things happen that are beyond your control, you can't blame yourself if you tried your best. And none of us know what will happen next. Life is full of serendipitous twists and unexpected opportunities. It's not enough to just plan. We have to be open to changes around us, be able to adapt to new situations, and give ourselves permission to proceed knowing that we can't know everything. In terms of my fandom, it tells me that I shouldn't be so tied to my expectations that I am unable to enjoy what I have before me. I'll admit, I experienced moments of disappointment and worry when I read about the love songs cover concept. However, I couldn't let my notions of what he should do ruin the pleasure I get from actually hearing him sing.

So true, I'm afraid. Your rant isn't really that exaggerated. Sometimes I wonder if some seem to want Clack 24/7 because they don't have enough else going on in their lives. Seriously, I love Clay, but he's not the only thing in my life. Opening up one's experiences to the broader world gives you a lot more perspective, not just on Clay, but on life, but too many never seem to leave the insular environment of the boards. I think there are some who really do plan their lives around Clay, which is why they get so upset when the tour dates are not confirmed. Every little thing related to Clay takes on monumental significance because he's become their entire world. When he's gone from the public eye, they're at a loss, because they've forgotten everything else.

So very true. I read that post, too. That first quote is quite appropriate, but rather ironic in that setting, don't you think? My guess is that, like so many of us, Clay has a variety of plans and goals before him, some set and confirmed, some pending a certain set of conditions, some still aspirational at this point. I think he's smart enough not to get too specific until the time is right, particularly when things can change or come up at a moment's notice.

Me, too. These rationalizations are becoming increasingly tortured. I understand the desire to speculate, particularly in the absence of a sustained clack flow. However, there's speculation and then there's pure invention, which is where so many of these arguments seem to go. Personally, like you, I find myself happier waiting to see what happens rather than imagining Clay to be the victim of evil machinations. As for the blog, doesn't it give one a sense of triumph and validation? I could not believe how on point he was about those who read too much into his blogs. For him to go so far as to mention "label pressure" was simply too precious! He was just short of addressing people by screennames. I must admit, the first think I thought when I read his quote was that it was precisely the type of quote that would invite fan interpretation. However, I have to applaud him for at least trying to get people to take his blogs at face value. Nice to see you here, merrieeee! And great find, ldyjocelyn. It's gratifying to see people, especially another member of the committee, recognize the value of Clay's appointment.

Matt Damon Quite a few alerts, most pertaining to his appearance at the New York Critics Circle Awards. A sampling: NY Times blog: "Damon drinks beer, pays cash, tips well" Roger Friedman, Fox News: Many stories are about complimentary things he said at the party about Affleck, DeNiro, Robin Williams and Jack Nicholson. (Ex. "Matt Damon thanks Robin Williams for Saving Private Ryan role " or "Damon: 'De Niro made me a much better actor'") There's an article about his former assistant in the Boston Globe: Going back further, there's a Gawker sighting: and details of his New Year's Eve Party in the Miami Herald: Tyra Banks Not too much on this front. Articles are basically about: 1. The fact that she's going to be a speaker at the University of Arkansas School of Public Service. 2. Her inclusion in Television Week's Most Bankable Stars in Syndication issue. 3. Her upcoming Vanity Fair cover in which she's hailed as the next Oprah. 4. Mention that she ate at a Hollywood restaurant named Ortolon. 5. Peripheral references to her shows, either in terms of schedule, ratings, America's Top Model winner CariDee, or her fat suit episode of the Tyra Banks Show (as it relates to the Lifetime movie, "To Be Fat Like Me.")

What can I say that hasn't already been said by all you brilliant people. Was that post frickin' fantastic or what? He said in no uncertain terms, "Stop reading too much into these blogs!" It's staggering, but I suppose, not surprising that some continue to insist that he can't possibly mean what he says. Ya gotta love this guy! CH is widely read and highly influential. I wasn't a member during Hockeygate, but I read it daily and I remember feeling heartsick when I read some of those posts. Some seemed so angry at Clay that I seriously worried about his safety. I noticed that in the days following, many CH members started to post at other boards because they were uncomfortable with the tone and discussion there. For better or worse, discussions at CH tend to bleed through the entire fandom. I love looking at the pin gallery, because it really shows the breadth and diversity of the fandom. The pins are fun and, I think, tolerable to Clay's management when done in moderation. However, quite frankly, legal precautions (no images of Clay, no use of his full name) were not being done by all, and some seemed to be issuing new pins on a weekly basis. When you sell pins once or twice a year, it's seems like a harmless fan activity. When you're selling pins with his full name and likeness, on a frequent basis, in volume, it begins to look like a business. The fact that people aren't making much, if anything on them, doesn't really matter. I'd love to have a pin, but I hope we are careful about the design. I'd hate to have a C&D order issued against FCA. All of those sound great! I'd love to chat more about all of those subjects. I think it's just a matter of people knowing that there is activity on those other threads. Yeah, I think that what many find "unsettling" is the idea that Clay is basically calling them out and refuting the position they're so heavily invested in, namely, that he's not telling the truth because of label pressure. Not only has he been reading their posts, he's telling them, "You're wrong." It sounds like many are still finding a way to rationalize his words to fit their own agendas, but his blog has made it tougher for them to do so. I love the fact that he's decided to share his favorite quotes. True, we're not finding out what color socks he's wearing or what Raleigh's been licking lately, but I think we could actually learn more interesting things, such as what he reads, who influences him and what ideas catch his attention. It's actually a great way for us to get a glimpse of his mind, which IMHO, is infinitely more fascinating than his dog. One senses, too, that it's a bit of a diversionary tactic. Get people talking about great quotes and and hopefully, they'll get off the RCA gerbil wheel for awhile. Hey, what do you think about that as a topic--a discussion of his latest quote and what we think it means, not just as it relates to Clay but as it relates to our own lives? Maybe these quotes are his way being a teacher, again.

Great post, jmh! Sadly, I almost think that people are denigrating ATDW, not because they don't like the music, but because they don't like the sales and lack of critical acclaim. Before the CD was released, there were a lot of glowing comments about the songs as each found its way to the fandom. At the CD parties, people talked excitedly about their favorites. However, now, just because it hasn't sold what they expected, suddenly the album is something Clay can't possibly be proud of? Fans certainly do have short memories. It's funny how fan opinion shifted so often when it came to the Fosters. One minute, they're the enemy. The next minute, they're his saviors. But then, it's that way with everyone remotely connected to Clay. Sometimes it's Hate Jerome Day. Other times, it's Love Jerome Day. Now it's time to hate Kimmel...now love him...now hate him...now love him... Hockeygate was a depressing time for me, too. There was such an air of entitlement. It took me a long time to return to that board after that.

Nice to see you here, institches! It's always great to hear another positive voice in the wilderness.

Ansamcw, I have to applaud you and Couchie for making a stand for reason and logic, no matter how futile it seems to be. It amazes me how: 1. Anything Clay says in support of his CD is dismissed as spin, and 2. What he doesn't say is proof of his discontent. There's no way to win this, and it's all based on the premise that Clay is lying. Oh, they may insist that RCA is making him lie, or that he believes it is in his best interest to lie, but still, they're saying he's not telling the truth. And what's worse is that this argument, by denying Clay's pride and involvement in the project, in a way, denigrates it. If Clay did put a lot of himself into this album, it must sting to see people insist that he's lying when he said he's proud of it, because what they're saying is, he shouldn't be. ETA: And like Claygasm, I suspect that he may not have fought the covers idea as vigorously as some believe. He has always sung covers, always sung ballads. If he wasn't confident in the original songs he had, I could see him embracing the cover concept, even if it wasn't the cool thing to do. I don't think Clay is as concerned with what's "cool" and "hip" as some may want him to be. I think he just wants to be himself.

So true. Great post, Claygasm. Life is too short to waste time worrying about things that are pure speculation, not verified fact. And quite frankly, even the most informed fans do not have all the information. I seriously doubt they've read his contract, sat in meetings with his management, or seen his marketing/promotional plan. For them to assume his state of mind beyond what he, himself, has declared seems extraordinarily presumptuous. However, fans will believe what they want to believe. When things don't go the way they want, they'll find a way to cast someone as the villain. When Clay lost AI, so many were willing (and still are) to believe that the show conspired against him and hates him to this day. Not true, but people don't want to accept that. I've been attacked on other boards for suggesting otherwise, which is why I tend to stay off the boards a lot during the AI season. However, I know the anti-AI tide is too strong to swim against. It's easier to stay out of the water. Now that sales aren't where fans want them to be, RCA is the villain and as many of us have noted, the current is pretty powerful there, too. At least on this issue, FCA is a delightful little pool to hang out in. Conspiracy is such a seductive explanation when one feels frustrated or helpless. It's certainly flooded most of the boards, defying all logic, reason, and common sense, which saddens me to no end. However, 2007 is a new year, with a multitude of possibilities before us, and before Clay. Hopefully, we'll have a "fresh start" that will bring us all together in mutual excitement, satisfaction, and joy. Clay can do it, and I've no doubt that he will.

What a great idea, Couchie! Glad you're OK. I'll pick Matt Damon and, just for fun, Tyra Banks. Speaking of which, did you know Leno hates Matt Damon? Here's a recent post on another site: Hmmm....

I'll do: 1) Matt Damon. I'm just getting in touch with that fandom again, so it's been fun looking at it from a Clay fan perspective. 2) Tyra Banks. She seems popular, but there does seem to be a bit of tabloid sniping, lately. This should be fun.

Fantastic post, Ansamcw! So many terrific points, such as this one: As I've said before, there seems to be this belief that Clay would be a superstar if RCA would just choose to make him one, as if there was a guaranteed gameplan for success. The fact is, if starmaking were really that easy, there would never be any failures. Clay has had an impressive amount of marketing and PR, far more than most ever get. It's so easy for people to forget that when they focus on what Clay didn't get. Absolutely. It takes a lot of selective memory, projection, and strained logical gymnastics for people to conclude that Clay hates the CD, but they're engaging in it. Because it hasn't sold what they wanted it to sell, they seem dedicated to the idea of stripping ownership of the CD from Clay so that blame can be directed squarely upon the label. I don't think it's that easy. Maybe a cover CD wasn't his first choice. Doesn't mean he didn't agree to it willingly. He's always sung covers in concert. It's entirely possible that much of the sound, production and song choices were his. However, people don't want to hear that, because they don't want to vent their frustrations upon him. I still think it's a good album, with some radio potential. It saddens me that so many are already so pessimistic, expressing disgust before the next single has even really hit the air. I agree. We should celebrate. Seriously, if RCA really wasn't interested in Clay, why even bother? It would be the easiest thing in the world for them to simply drop him without a word. He may not be their highest priority, but they're still spending money on him. That has to mean something. HAPPY BIRTHDAY TXSFLWRGIRL! Have fun today!

Thanks for the certification information, playbiller and KAndre. Even if Clay's albums only went gold every time, he'd still be considered a successful artist and would be a valuable asset to any label. That Christmas album continues to generate more income annually than many artists ever get.

Yet another example of the fact that Clay is not the only one subject to negative press. Tyra is beautiful, wealthy and popular, and yet the exact same things that happened to Clay (Joan River, Worst Dressed, hateful chat rooms) seem to have happened to her. Lately, tabloids have displayed unflattering bathing suit photos and proclaimed her "fat." (Yet another thing they have in common.) The press doesn't pick on Clay. They pick on all celebrities. That's truly sad. Do lurkers read non-main threads? Good question. Good point. I do think that having other fan experiences does give you a little more perspective. Many in their first fandom think that the phenomenon is unique. While I do believe that there are many aspects of the Clay fandom that are special and perhaps, unprecedented, the more you look around, the more you realize that some things are more a function of obsession, and not really about the subject itself. Excessive nitpicking, for example, seems to happen within every hard core fandom. So very true, and it's the way I view it, as well. Clay is a quirky guy and always has been. I may not be crazy about every single thing he says or does, but I take the good with bad (what little there is of it) and recognize that all of it makes him who he is. I've thought that Clay's fans are his own worst enemy for a long time, as well. I also find it slightly disturbing how many presume to know so much about Clay's thoughts, motivations, and relationships, and how so much that is really just speculation is presented as verified fact. I've read things on the boards that I've known, with 100% certainty, were dead wrong. The information was presented articulately, with apparent intelligence, by people held in high regard. But what was said was completely incorrect. For professional reasons, I could not disclose just how I knew they were wrong, so I'd have to sit and read as people were WORDED and praised for spreading patently false information. It made me realize that even the "experts" don't really know everything they think they do.

Right now, Britney's pretty much ruling the bad press category, with reports of her not wearing underwear and sleeping/passing out at a New Year's Eve party. The shutting down of one of her big fan sites (in response to her behavior) even made news. Despite Tom's very public wedding, he still gets the gay jokes. I just saw a group of comedians talking about him a few days ago. Jessica Simpson's Kennedy Center fiasco was ridiculed everywhere, and Angelina continues to get blamed for breaking up Jennifer and Brad. A lot of celebrities are treated cruelly in the media. I think we fans just tend to be more sensitive when it comes to Clay. On a related note, today, I visited a fan site for my other interest, Matt Damon. There, some appear to be somewhat angry that he hasn't received the award nominations they think he deserves. There are accusations that Scorcese favors DiCaprio and therefore, is pushing him over Matt. "Experts" insist that nominations are all about expensive promotional campaigns, and there are complaints that the studios just aren't spending enough on him. The exclusion of "The Good Shepherd" from today's Producer's Guild nominations has resulted in some angst, as there was when he failed to earn a Golden Globe nomination when Leo, Jack, and Mark Wahlberg got them. Though there have been positive reviews, some wonder what critics have against Matt. For the most part, there are enough sensible voices to keep things from getting ridiculous, but I must admit, some of the arguments seemed hauntingly familiar. It made me realize that it's natural for fans to look for villains when things don't go the way they want them. We tend to focus so intently on the subject of our affection that it's all too easy to lose perspective. However, more often than not, what we see as central and significant is completely peripheral and inconsequentional to everyone else.