JennaZ

(((muski))) I'm sorry you had to hear it from your boss, but I know you'll come back strong. You're too smart not to succeed. Like CG, I think Clay was and continues to be a bit of a marketing challenge. I think his vocal talent is unquestioned. However, I've often felt that it might take a little more creativity and intelligence to truly capitalize on his potential. Unfortunately, I get the feeling that some, like Simon or perhaps those at RCA, haven't always had enough of that. Clay once said something like, "All my life, people haven't known what to make of me." That may still true. He has a powerful voice, but the areas that normally reward that -- opera, classical, etc. -- don't seem to appeal to him. There is a place in Broadway for his kind of voice, which is why, I think, Simon referenced it. However, until recently, that didn't seem to be an option he wanted to pursue. I sometimes wonder whether RCA originally saw him as a potential pop artist in the Jesse McCartney type of mold. His TITN video tended to support that image, and "Invisible" was the kind of catchy pop tune that did get radioplay. However, Clay rejected that video, and the other songs on MOAM tended to have more of a ballad feel to them. I think Clay could have had a successful career singing bubble-gum pop, but that wouldn't have taken advantage of his vocal range, and perhaps, that sound doesn't really satisfy him artistically. After all, he claimed not to really like "Back for More" that much, either. And if this type of pop isn't him, what other marketable sound is there for him? There are standards, ala Michael Buble. I would not be surprised if that helped prompt the decision to do a covers album, and I can see why the label went in that direction. But that ultimately didn't prove as profitable as hoped. I don't think it will be easy, but I believe that Clay can find a sound that resonates with him and has broader commercial potential. I also get the sense that Clay may be approaching this next album a bit more strategically than before, because I think he's more ambitious than he likes to admit. He has creativity and intelligence, and if anyone "knows what to make of him," it should be him. He is unique. He's gifted, but quirky. It makes him memorable, but it also makes him difficult to pigeonhole. I think a lot of label execs (like Simon) may prefer pigeonholes, because they're easier to manage. Clay's talent may take a little more imagination to market, but I believe that when someone finally figures it out (and that person could be him), the rewards could be tremendous.

This is close to my experience. When I saw him, I totally thought he would be one of the bad auditions. But after he sang, I found myself hoping he'd make it through. I didn't find him attractive, but I did root for him as an underdog, someone who didn't have the image but who had a tremendous voice, someone who deserved a chance. However, DLTSGDOM converted me from a passive admirer to a fully invested fan. As the competition progressed, I found him increasingly appealing. Maybe not sexy, but adorably cute. The sexy didn't really happen for me until he performed Invisible on the AI Tour.

There are some hairstyles I like better on him than others. However, even when I'm not crazy about his appearance, I let it go because as has been said before, complaining about his hair is like complaining about the weather. If you don't like it, just wait a minute. I love Quiana as a person, and I think she has an amazing voice. But is she a star? Quite honestly, I'm not so sure. I've seen others who sing as well as she does. As good as she is, she doesn't seem that unique. Of course, maybe, like Couchie said, she just needs the right opportunity, like Jennifer Hudson. Sometimes that's all anyone needs, the perfect song or role that showcases one's talent in the ideal way. I'm glad she got the Dreamgirl role. Perhaps that will open doors for her.

Actually, I do remember him saying something about how he realized that the competition started before the voting, in that he knew that how you presented yourself to the cameras off-stage was important because it affected how the audience perceived you. I do recall him expressing some disdain for those who were mouthy or displayed attitude during Hollywood Week. Maybe it's in "Learning to Sing"? Rhody, great job with the book drive! I think it's a fantastic idea. Couchie, terrific posts, as always. Excellent point, Ansa. There really are a lot of exceptional voices out there. Many, many back-up singers are far more gifted and technically skilled than the people they stand behind. Church and school choirs across the nation are filled with voices who are far more talented than the majority of artists on the charts. I dare to say that many karaoke singers are far better than Britney Spears ever was. However, very few have that intangible "star quality" that sets them apart from everyone else. A lot of fantastic singers will cross the idol stage, but not all of them have what it takes to make people remember them. Clay was memorable from the very beginning. It wasn't just the voice. There was something about him, even at his geekiest, that made people want to root for him. He was and continues to be a very unique individual, which I think makes him a bit of a challenge for some in the music industry (like Simon). However, what makes him different is also what makes him special.

Thanks for sharing your experience, Couch Tomato. Sounds like a wonderful night.

Sorry to hear about your fall, playbiller. I hope you make it to Vegas safely.

Great story, muski! Glad it had a happy ending! Now get some rest!

So true. In fact, the only place I've heard about it is here, on this message board. Major labels may mean less control for the artist, but it also tends to mean wider distribution and greater promotional opportunities. IMHO, this notion that Clay received no promotion is absurd. Many artists would kill to have the exposure he did. It may not have been exactly the same as some other artists, but he wasn't invisible. Not to rehash the whole promotional gerbil wheel, but to me, what happened with ATDW was more a misreading of the market than anything else. I think at some level, all of us do care about Clay's career. However, not all of us want to engage in the kind of obsessive worry and paranoia that has infected so many others in the fandom. As Baz Luhrman put it in "Everybody's Free to Wear Sunscreen" I have thought for a long time that Clay's career path would not be a standard one, simply because he's a very unique individual. He has a fantastic voice, but he's not a classical singer and he doesn't seem quite drawn to the kind of music that is currently popular on Top 40 radio. He's good looking, but by his own admission, geeky. However, he's a compelling entertainer with very real comedic gifts. I can see why he'd be a marketing challenge for label executives. Artists like Daughtrey or Carrie Underwood are much easier to pigeonhole, and thus, promote. I don't know if RCA has the creativity to effectively market Clay. I hope they figure things out. However, I almost get the sense that Clay may be driving his career more than the label, now. All these television appearances, Spamalot, even his recent tour, seem to be positioning him as something more than just a singer. And if he does break through, the label will be more than happy to capitalize. I remain cautiously optimistic. I don't want to set up lofty, unrealistic expectations. However, I'm willing to bet that Clay has something up his sleeve. This was a guy who lost to Quiana in Charlotte, but went on to win over the judges in Atlanta. Who got cut in the first round of Idol, but came back to win the Wildcard vote. Who lost to Ruben in the finals, but ended up completely overshadowing him in album and concert sales. There is something in him that learns from adversity and comes back even stronger. So sorry to hear about your loss, (((ldyjocelyn))).

The Boobgate picture itself never bothered me. It was clearly consensual and done in good fun. It showed me that he had a naughty side of him, which actually kind of tickles me. However, I did not think it was a good idea to take a private photo from a web site and display it. True, it could have been guarded in a more secure manner, but to me, it was clearly not meant for general display. The person who found it may have meant no harm, but personally, I would have thought twice before posting it on a public board. It wasn't an obscene photo, but was this something that Clay really wanted out there, on VH1 and various radio station web sites (which, of course, joked about it in a negative fashion)? Was this the image he wanted to present to the world? He may have had fun privately, but did he really want to offend a sizeable percentage of his fanbase? Would he have wanted his mother to see it? His church? Maybe not. And of course, Mezghan got her share of nasty e-mails and responses from fans. The photo didn't make me think any less of him. However, I was not glad it was so widely promulgated. I know this makes me a bit of a party-pooper, but I just don't think we fans have an absolute right to clack. On to lighter things: I once saw an hilarious photoshopped parody of angelwinger art. It had Clay's head put on the body of a cherub, surrounded by rainbows, unicorns, and kittens. In a thought bubble, it had Clay saying something like, "Get me out of here!" It was one of the funniest things I'd ever seen. Does anyone happen to have that?

Thanks, CG! What a lovely trip down memory lane.

I don't know why Clay hasn't chosen to announce the name of his producer, but quite frankly, I'm kind of glad. Any name, no matter how highly successful or respected, would inevitably unleash a storm of protest from different factions of fans. Before a single note was heard, we would have people proclaim the album a maliciously orchestrated failure. I'm not in a hurry to read those posts. Personally, I don't feel the need to know that much about the album at this point. Eventually, we'll find out more, but why get the angst-engines revving up now, when there are so many other things to look forward to (AYSTAFG, Skating Show, Christmas Concerts, Spamalot)? CG, I hope you were able to get some relief for you sinus headache.

So true, keepingfaith. Much of the angst seems to be premised on weak assumptions. That David Foster as a producer would mean automatic success. As ansa pointed out, he didn't turn Diana DeGarmo or John Stevens into superstars. I don't deny his talent, and I recognize that he may have a positive influence on Clay, but that's no guarantee that he'd be the best producer for Clay. Without knowing who Clay's current producer is, IMHO, it's a HUGE stretch to assume that he'd be better for Clay than the person he has now. That Clay would necessarily want to work with David Foster. He may be a friend, but that doesn't necessarily translate into a good working relationship, or a shared artistic vision. It's entirely possible that Clay is looking for a different type of sound, or that this other producer has ideas that Clay finds more innovative or appealing. If we're going to speculate, why not meander toward the bright side? Maybe Clay's current producer is better than David Foster? Maybe it's this new producer who's been improving Clay's voice? Clay's been recording, right? And he's been in New York a lot, lately. Isn't it at least slightly plausible that he's been working with him/her recently? I kind of get the sense that part of the DF/Kat angst is simply jealousy--that he would choose to work with an idol other than Clay. But that seems to place an excessive amount of importance on Foster, and a lack of trust in Clay's own artistic judgment.

((playbiller & Holly)) Like Ansa, I don't think there's any overall publicity campaign being organized for Clay. If anything, I think he's simply been involved in projects that have good publicists of their own, whether it's Spamalot, 5th Grader, or Unicef.

Welcome Karma and ausdon! Don't feel shy about posting. Terrific article! I love hearing our boyfriend sound so smart, using words like "behoove." Anyone reading that has to be impressed with his intelligence, thoughtfulness, and perspective. I've always loved British humor. Benny Hill wasn't a favorite, but I adore Monty Python, Rowan Atkinson (Mr. Bean), and even old sitcoms like "Are You Being Served?" Ricky Gervais is brilliant. One of these days, you have to hear his podcast, which at one point, was the most downloaded podcast in the world. As you may know, he created the original British version of "The Office," and most recently won an Emmy for the "Extras." Stephen Fry and Hugh Laurie are also fantastic comedians. If you've only seen Hugh on "House," you've only seen a fraction of his talent. Not all British humor is the same. Some of it is somewhat intellectual, some of it is silly. They can show more on British television than they can in the US, so some of it goes much further than we may be comfortable with. (You should see what they do on shows like "Little Britain.") However, it doesn't surprise me at all the Clay would find it funny. British humor often has a snarkiness to it that seems perfectly aligned with Clay's own sensibilities.

I could totally see Clay on Jon Stewart or Stephen Colbert! His knowledge of politics would make him a great guest, and I know he can snark with the best of them. Muski, your daughter's trip to Europe will be life-changing. I can imagine how thrilled she must be. I really wish everyone had the opportunity to travel to a foreign country at least once. It really changes your perspective on so many things.

Wow! Sorry to hear about your accident. ((cha cha trusty)) -- but not too hard, because I know you must be sore. I hope you feel better soon.

ncgran4clay, you're making me a little misty. Thank you for sharing your experience.

Congratulations, Claygasm, on your great opening night seats! Should be a terrific night! ldyjocelyn, Bookwhore, let me just say that I admire the consideration you have for your husbands. As Cotton so wisely put it: Clay memories are great. However, ultimately, your husband is the one you go to bed with every night. I don't think Clay would want anyone to compromise their personal relationships for him. It can't be easy for the men in our lives to watch their wives devote so much time and money to a young celebrity. I don't think it's submissive or old-fashioned to give up one Clay experience if it means something extra for them. That said, I wish we could all win the lottery!

ldyjocelyn, it is tough, isn't it? (((ldyjocelyn))) I'd love to see Spamalot, but I look at the costs, and realistically, I really can't justify it for myself at this moment. It's possible things might work out next year, but I don't feel I'm in a position to commit funds right now. We just went on a nice vacation last week, and Christmas is coming up soon. Right now, I'm just hoping that work will take me to NY next spring. I hope you can go, but don't feel you are the only one who can't make it. These boards make it hard to resist joining the fun, but you have to do what's best for you and your family. Perhaps you could wait until next year to decide whether to go or not. With all the performances, I think you'll find a ticket if you need one at the last minute.

I think there are fans who are emotionally committed to the idea of Clay as a successful recording artist. Television, film, and theatre are only tolerable to the extent that they further Clay's music career. Me? I find that view somewhat limiting. Sure, I'd love to see him sell CD's, but I don't think CD recordings alone capture what makes him special. Honestly, I'm not sure that even a "kick-ass" CD would necessarily be enough to earn him the kind of status and music "cred" that many want for him. Like it or not, he is not one of the "cool kids," and I don't see him ever trying to become one of them. It's not that I think he can't sing songs that could get radio play. I just get the feeling that he doesn't necessarily connect to the kind of music that regularly gets spins on Top 40 formats. If he does make it there, I suspect it will be with a ballad, something that could cross over from AC. But my instincts are that radio is not going to be the engine of his career. I believe it will be other media (television, film, theatre) that will ultimately fuel his success. Some may consider them merely promotional tools, but I think they will be a much bigger part of his life. Why? 1) Because these allow audiences to see the broader range of his talents--his voice, yes, but also his personality and sense of humor. I have always believed that his comedic skills will be his ticket to broader acceptance, especially among males. 2) Because these tend to be somewhat less fixated on what is trendy at the moment. You don't have to be "hip" to be popular on television, film, or theatre. You just have to be entertaining, and Clay can certainly do that. 3) Because these ultimately offer more long-term career stability and financial reward. There's a reason why so many artists from Beyonce to Billy Ray Cyrus pursue acting careers. Music is a fickle, uncertain industry that often does not pay as much as one imagines. With the CD sales sliding, that's becoming even more and more true. This Spamalot role may not pay him a fortune (although I suspect he's still getting more than the typical Broadway performer). However, it does come with a lot of benefits. One, I think it will be a tremendous learning experience, giving him the opportunity to develop his acting skills with seasoned professionals. Two, it will expose him to new audiences, people interested in the play who may not have a clue as to how talented he really is, including possible industry folk. And three, it will focus attention on his comedic talent, something that could pay off in terms of television or film roles in the future. And if he gains broad popularity as an actor/performer, we would probably see an increased interest in his CD's and concerts. Look at the success of Hannah Montana. In the early days of my fandom, I used think Clay would be recording star. Now I'm beginning to believe he was meant for bigger things.

Congratulations, Aikim! I'm so glad Clay saw your warm, supportive post. If that's not a reason to be positive on the OFC, I don't know what is. I kind of hope that others learn a lesson from it. So he blogged, posted, and chatted tonight. Hmm... He's certainly giving fans incentive to renew their memberships. I'm also guessing he's in a buoyant mood. This is a great opportunity for him, and I'm sure he must be thrilled to have landed it.

LOVE, LOVE, LOVE that blog! He so knows this fandom, and it's great to see certain things addressed. Woo hoo for Spamalot! The supporting quotes from Nichols and Idol were enthralling to read. I have always believed that Clay had a comedic gift, and I think something like this will give him an excellent opportunity to prove it. Now, how am I going to finagle a trip to New York City in spring? Hmmm... I can't help but believe this will be a great learning experience for him. Not only will he gain something from working on a Broadway stage with talented people, but he'll live in New York (where, incidentally, Tyra now tapes, right?) which can potentially expose him to a lot of interesting industry contacts, and which might offer him multiple media opportunities. As it is, it doesn't hurt that he's gotten to know Eric Idle and Mike Nichols, two well-established individuals in the business. I'm thrilled! This is definitely something to celebrate!

I think the right chef won. While not every dish might be spectacular, at least no dish would be inedible. I'd happily eat Hung's food, and if the judges' comments were any indication, the meal would be amazing. If you get a chance, read the blogs at Bravo's web site. Unlike any of us, those people have actually tasted his cooking and seen him in person. Their insights are interesting and illuminating. Said Ted Allen: Said Anthony Bourdain: Said Gail Simmons:

Zena, Clayzorback, my thoughts are with you and your loved ones. Things like that remind me that life is so uncertain. That's why I don't like to sweat the small stuff. "Problems" like the state of Clay's hair or a random comment by some obscure blogger are not worth heartache. FWIW, if Clay is in Raleigh, I think he'll be at Ruben's concert. He may get some attention, but I think he'll want to show his support for his friend. RE: Blender. They know they'll only get press if they make controversial statements, so of popular songs as among the worst. It's merely the writers' opinion. Who cares? It's not as if those on the list will suffer for it. I haven't read Clay's post in the Spamalot thread, but I do find it amusing that he is watching it.

I enjoyed Pushing Daisies too, last night. But don't expect it to be cancelled anytime soon. Ratings were phenomenal. It won its time period by a landslide. I like Spam, especially fried. It's good with fried rice and eggs. I haven't seen Spamalot, but I do love Monty Python, especially the Holy Grail film. My favorite scene is the one where the Black Knight gets all his limbs cut off. Priceless! I can totally see Clay as a Monty Python fan.