JennaZ

Some great, thoughtful discussion. Claygasm, jmh, Couchie, I share your viewpoints. Clayzorback, I did read that Rubin article and found it intriguing. One thing I took away from it is the burgeoning role of television in breaking new music. That's why I would welcome Clay's involvement in the medium. I know some want Clay to be a more traditional type of music star, but in this world where High School Musical and Hannah Montana are outperforming many radio-made acts, I can't dismiss TV's power. And Clay is SOOO good on television. Happy Birthday Merrieeee! And welcome Cotton! The subscription idea is interesting, but like Ansa, I'm not sure whether the financial model will be profitable.

Yeah, I'll rejoin the OFC. I'm not a huge fan of the message board, but I do like to peek in on it occasionally. It does appear to be the one board we know that Clay does read, so if I have thoughts or support I'd like to offer him, I feel there is a greater chance he'll see it there than elsewhere. The OFC offers the best opportunity to win M&G's, and there have been times (though rare), when the fan club has been advantageous for ticket buying. But for me, his blogs are worth the price of admission alone. Funny, perceptive, and clever, they give us a window to his personality, that for me, is enormously rewarding. From the quick, random tidbits about his life (i.e., getting an iPhone), to his more heartfelt expressions of gratitude or compassion, each feels extraordinarily personal and genuine. Unlike M&G reports which must be interpreted through the filters of the participants, his blogs come directly from him, and can be evaluated as such. Yeah, they might get passed around back channels elsewhere, but he wrote them for Fan Club members, and it's as a Fan Club member that I want to appreciate them. So true. If one spends all one time on the boards, it's all to easy to think the world revolves around Clay Aiken. The vast majority of people never hear about the minor disses of obscure bloggers or small-city reviewers. And even when things do reach the larger media, they are often forgotten with the next wave of Paris/Lindsay/Britney gossip that inevitably washes through. And sorry, I don't know who Kirk Gibson or Drew Pearson are either.

I like these statements, Claygasm. It is fascinating, to me, how diverse this fandom can be. When you think about it, it's actually pretty amazing that one guy can appeal to so many different kinds of people. There are things I would like to see more of in the fandom: perspective, respect for Clay and other fans, restraint in dealings with the press, media, or outside parties. However, I also have to realize that excess that sometimes drives me crazy is also a measure of the level of passion people have for him. It might be nice if his fandom was entirely comprised of sensible, practical, highly responsible individuals, but then, his concerts might not be quite so full. IMHO, for better or worse, the passion of the fandom (multiple concerts, multiple purchases, enthusiastic audiences as TV tapings) help drive his career. I'm not condoning the worst behaviors -- stalking, attacking other fans, following Clay at the expense of personal relationships or responsibilities. However, I tend to think that as long as Clay continues to inspire strong feelings in his fans, we'll always have extreme behaviors in the fandom.

Good point, Couchie. There are certain behaviors in the fandom that annoy and even infuriate me. But, I have to remind myself that even those who make highly insulting comments about Clay's appearance, who complain endlessly about any little thing that doesn't conform to their vision of who Clay is, who seem to express more displeasure than delight in him, that even they, at heart, love Clay Aiken. I wish they could find more joy in the fandom, (and I tend to scroll past their posts), but I can't entirely discount their genuine affection for him. Great analogy, jamar! I really do think that experience in another fandom gives one perspective. Life is a series of ups and downs. It's important to keep that in mind when things aren't perfect.

So true. The tabloid mentality has penetrated all levels of the media. It's sad that the rush to report has overtaken the obligation to check sources or to maintain an objective tone. The most negative, salacious spin always seems to garner the most attention. Idol Rewind is a syndicated show, which means that it can appear on any station that chooses to license the program, at whatever time it decides to schedule it. In Los Angeles, it runs on KTLA, which is actually a CW station. Try checking local listings to see when it will be on in your area. ETA: This website will show you where the Season 1 of Idol Rewind is airing. You might check back later for Season 2. Idol Rewind

I've rarely been in the first few rows, and while I'll admit it is a thrilling experience, it isn't essential for me. I know it is for some, and I suspect, those people will still pay the broker prices they pay now. However, I would think most of us could live with worse seats if it meant that Clay had more widespread success. Yes, we'd miss those days when it was just us, when venues were smaller and more intimate. But if we want Clay to reach more people, we have to be willing to share him. I do think Clay has projects in the works, things he's developing that he cannot discuss. I believe he's smarter and more savvy than he ever was before, and that he's learned a lot in the last year or so. I would not be surprised if he reaches a whole new level next year, even if it's in a way not everyone in the fandom expects.

Wow! So many great points! I'd pass the WORD's around more specifically, but I'm reading the board on my Blackberry, which makes formatting difficult. I do agree that, for better or worse, Clay has not been a passive participant in his career. While he may not have had total control of every aspect, especially early on, I think that he bears some responsibility for where he is now-which IMHO-is NOT a bad place. He may not be all over the radio, selling out arenas, but he's still touring, still getting TV bookings, and perhaps most importantly, he's still sane and apparently happy. If he had focused on his music more than his philanthropic endeavors, if he had sung songs that got radio play but that he didn't enjoy singing, if he had made decisions solely to make himself rich and popular, he might have been on the top of the charts, but he might also be sitting in rehab somewhere. Clay may not be a superstar, but I think he's in a decent position with a lot of potential to go further.

I love your attitude, ldyjocelyn. Clay really has given us a lot of great experiences in the last few years, much of it covered on video. We've had like, what? Eight tours worth of Clack? Dozens of television appearances? Not to mention the countless hours of friendships formed in the fandom? Whatever happens, I think we should savor these and appreciate just how good we've had it. That's why I just don't feel like getting swept up in angst over what his future may hold. Don't get me wrong. I'd love to see him have a long, successful career. However, I don't want to waste my energies worrying about things which, realistically, I have very little control over. I know there are some who live in a state of constant anxiety over his life. I feel sorry for them. Life is too short, IMHO, to let such feelings dilute the joy Clay brings every day. And glad you got your Bourne back, Couchie! And tell us the story! Thanks for bringing over the Japanese site, Ansa. It always amazes me how far Clay's appeal reaches.

Great post. I think there is some truth in this. And in this: That first year must have been enormously difficult, when he couldn't even leave hotel rooms for fear of getting mobbed. He probably had very little knowledge of the industry then, and could only follow blindly as his management lead him from recording sessions to media events to various appearances. I was just listening to his iTunes interview yesterday, and one of the things he said was that if he had gone into music right after high school, it would have been all about him. He seemed to think that it was important for him to go through the Y and college so that he could have the attitude he has now. Likewise, I do sometimes wonder if the slower periods have, in a sense, been good for him, because they gave him a chance to breathe and regain a sense of perspective. I suspect that he's found that to maintain his sanity, he had to take some measure of control over his own life. His experiences in Indonesia, Uganda, Afghanistan and elsewhere probably had a significant impact on him, and in the last few years, he's undoubtedly learned so much more, not only about the entertainment industry, but about himself. I think Clay is happy, but I also think he's ambitious enough to want a bit more out of his career. Radio play. Television. Touring to sell-out crowds. And I still believe that under the right circumstances, it is possible for him to reach superstar heights, to have the kind of fame, success and popularity that would make him a legend. I don't know if he wants that or not, but I do think that because his trajectory has not been one continuous meteoric rise, because he has had some time to process and re-evaluate, he is now much better prepared to deal with it if it were to happen.

I'll admit, there was a time when I thought Clay would change the music scene. When he got the cover of Rolling Stone, when he sold 600K copies of MOAM the first week, and when I saw what seemed to be an unusually strong, impassioned fan base, I did feel as though I was witnessing history. And quite frankly, part of me still senses an air of destiny of around him. However, clearly, he's not quite at Elvis level just yet. And perhaps he never will be. However, I have come to believe that whatever path his career may take, it won't be along a conventional route. Clay is too unique. You can't plug him into the formulas that might make Kelly, Carrie, or Daughtrey stars. I suspect that makes marketing him a bit of a challenge, but I also think that he has a potential far beyond theirs, though it may take some creativity to make the world see it. Like others, I, too have a good feeling about the next year or so. However, though I have a few wishes, I don't have a lot of specific expectations, because I suspect his possibilities are broader than most believe. I don't want to get tied down to some myopic vision of what his career should be, and I don't want to be disappointed if he doesn't live his life according to my fantasy. I want to be able to enjoy whatever comes, whatever he decides to do. Clay is a smart guy, who I believe, is much more ambitious than he likes to admit. I think it's possible he's made mistakes, but I also believe he learns quickly and approaches challenges with intelligence and determination. Is that any guarantee of success? No, but I think it does put the odds in his favor, and I can live happily with that.

Hi y'all. Just checking in from my Blackberry to apologize for not participating in the Rating Game. Work will keep me very busy for the next few weeks. I'll try to check on the boards, but I won't have the capability to review clips. But have fun, all of you! And hugs to you ((Couchie))!

Great discussion... WORD. If some choose to believe rumor and backchannel gossip, fine. But when skepticism is treated as stupidity, when refusing to maintain a state of raging fury at RCA is deemed disloyal, and when there seems to be an active, board-certified agenda to promote the notion that Clay is getting screwed, I have to back away. And I did. Yes, Clay can be inconsistent. However, I still find him a much more reputable source than any fan, if only because he actually has first hand knowledge of his own situation. He's the one who sat in meetings, spent time in the recording studios, and saw the full range of options before him. I sometimes wonder whether fans and their "insiders" are like the old story of the blind men and the elephant. One grabs hold of the tail and declares, "An elephant is like a rope." Another stumbles across the ear, and says, "An elephant is like a fan." Etc. Many fans, at best, tend to see only slivers of the whole situation, and yet they're willing to make fairly bold assumptions which may not be accurate in light of the big picture. Terrific post, Playbiller. Yes, I do think that people in the best position to know what's going on are also the least likely to actually post, because that information would be easily traceable to them. You also have a good point that Clay's team, not fans, are more likely to have the most accurate information and are best able to act on it. Seriously, no matter how many message boards or IM's one reads, no matter how much internet research you do, how many books or articles you read, or how much experience you may have in another field, unless you have full knowledge of his situation, you shouldn't assume you can act in his best interest. For everything we think we know, there is undoubtedly, far more we do not. Yeah, I actually believe that most who report such information sincerely believe it to be true. I would like to think there are very few liars in the fandom, just people who misinterpret information according to their personal filters and report it in a manner than supports their particular position. I think Quiana, more than Clay, reads the boards. And I think she's aware of a lot of the bitchiness, pettiness, and various rumors and conspiracies that abound, some of which she may tell Clay about. I doubt they harbor any illusions as to the variety of fans that exist.

Great post, laughn! In fact, I tend to wonder whether Clay has become more cautious about what plans he reveals. I suspect the reason he didn't disclose the "developments" he discussed is because until they're confirmed, signed, and irrevocably set, they're still subject to change. And any changes or delays tend to cause the fandom to spin into a cycle of anger, angst, and blame. I do enjoy learning bits about the music industry. However, I've grown to be very wary about how such knowledge gets applied to Clay's situation. This from Couchie's cousin makes a lot of sense to me: She also said that every label is different. Bottom line, I find it perilous to make assumptions based on a distant knowledge base, no matter how many articles or message boards one reads. I understand the desire to know everything related to Clay. I realize that many are motivated by a desire to help and support him in his career. However, I don't think we should ever forget that, for the most part, we are all just amateurs and outsiders, with only a fraction of the knowledge of his situation. And I just can't get worked up over, what seems so often to me, to be merely speculation wrapped in rumor presented with questionable authority.

Bravo, KAndre! Another exciting and funny recap! Some nice N.J.U. stories from Platinum at CV:

I gotta say, I loved so many of his responses. Yes! His business is HIS business. Fans don't have the right to know everything. Yes! There is Clack he doesn't want on tabloid television. He wasn't kidding about that fall footage, folks. Yes! He doesn't read the message boards much, and he makes decisions based on what he wants to do, not what the fans tell him to do. And Yes! He recognizes that fans will read what they want into what he writes. Of course, people will find a way to explain away anything that threatens their viewpoint.

From SueBee12 at CH. I've bolded the parts I found most interesting:

QUOTE(Ansamcw @ Aug 20 2007, 02:41 PM) * Ditto for me. I'm glad you walked off, KAndre. To boo (Ethel? Clay? Both?) in concert is classless, and I'm glad Clay called her out on it. If she wasn't afraid to express her distaste in a public manner, she shouldn't be shocked to be dressed down in public. I do think that Clay was addressing the "meanness" directed toward Ethel more than the mere displeasure. Booing is mean, and I suspect there have been comments on other boards that are much nastier than they should be. I can only imagine what Ethel has encountered in person. I understand why not everyone approves of her behavior in concerts or in the bus lines, but some seem to truly hate her. ETA: According to Raleighlady at CV, regarding the boo-er: Totally, I wish you strength and wisdom during this very difficult time. Ding Dang it....Sorry JennaZ (KAndre) ETA2: To fix formatting.

Great post, playbiller. I especially agree with these quotes: It seems to me that with every tour, Clay has grown increasingly more comfortable with his fans. From the conversational M&G's, to the unstrained banter and unconservative singing, to the endless buslines, he gave a lot of himself to the fans this summer. I do think that people like Angela and Quiana provide him with more than just vocal back-up. I suspect their friendship helps keep him happy on the road, and if it means a little less Clay-time on stage, IMHO, it's worth it.

Classic, bottle, classic!

Thank you for your very lovely post, puddinsjoy. The last concert of a tour is special to me, too. I can't help but look back with fondness at all the great moments. The M&G reports are interesting. From early statements that fans should be prepared to wait a while for a new album, to allusions to developments which could preclude a summer tour, to this most recent comment that they were aiming for an early 2008 release, things certainly seem to be in flux. My thought is that perhaps he had thought it would be a struggle (and thus a long time) to get the label to approve all the new songs he wanted, but has since found the process to be smoother than anticipated. I do think he still has projects in development that he does not yet feel ready to discuss. Like others, I also think this early 2008 release is a goal and not a promise. (If a new album doesn't get out until fall, I expect the usual suspects to insist that it was deliberately delayed to screw him over.) However, if reports are to be believed, he is serious about getting an album out there. Thanks for the report on Christian Leuzzi, jmh. As Ansa pointed out, it's far from guaranteed that his songs will actually make the album, but I do find it intriguing that he's writing for him. And yes, I expect pranks all the way tonight. His humor seems to have been ramping up, lately. I can't wait to see what he does this evening. OT: I've just started reading a novel entitled, "The Words of Every Song" by Liz Moore. It follows several characters involved in the music industry. From the back cover: "There's the arrogantly hip twenty-six year old A&R man, the rising young singer-songwriter, the established, arena-filling rock star on the verge of a midlife crisis; the type-A female executive with the heavy social calendar; as other recognizable figures. Set in the sleek offices, high-tech recording studios, and grungy downtown clubs of New York, The Words of Every Song offers an authenticity drawn from Liz Moore's own experience and brings an insider's touch to its depiction of the music industry and its denizen." Of course, it's always dangerous to assume that fictional depictions are an accurate portrayal of reality, but there are interesting passages that have an air of familiarity. For example, about Tom, the rock star: And there are passages that may provide some insight, if based on reality. Here, Jax is the high level label executive. Theo is the A&R man. The Burn is an up and coming band. I just started the novel, but it's quite absorbing so far.

Wow! Sounds like Clay was in prime form tonight! All you lucky ducks who got to see it live must fill us in asap! PS to Couchie: I was thrilled with the SYTYCD results, too! The winner was completely deserving, a graceful, versatile dancer with so much innate talent. I'll admit, I was surprised--but absolutely delighted.

Thanks for bringing over the recap, jmh, and for the Cary tidbit, bottlecap. I'd love to see footage of Clay as a kid, interacting with other in the choir. I can imagine him being talkative and precocious as a young singer, not an easy kid to manage, but an impressive performer to watch. Remember that Raleigh Boys Choir footage? What amused me about that clip was not just his voice, but the way he went out into the audience to sing to someone. This was a boy who, even then, had an instinct for showmanship.

Claygasm, I'm so sorry that your father's diagnosis was not a good one. I can't even imagine how difficult this must be for you. Please know that my thoughts are with you and your family.

Let me guess... "RCA wants him to do another covers album." Why don't people focus on the statement that two of the songs Clay wants have already been approved? Apparently, there is a report clarifying that RCA offered him a covers album if he wanted to get something out quickly, but he said no. This doesn't seem like an "ultimatum," just an option he chose not to take. A covers album would be much easier to put together than an album of originals. Nothing "mandated" there. Sounds very positive to me, and Clay seems happy about the situation, so what's all the angst about?

M&G recap from CV -- as remembered by hearing a report on a cell phone: Link HERE More details from another: