jmh123

Wordy, McWord, you are smoking today!! I think is the bottom line. Most of Clay's fans really are women. He's working on it, but it's a challenge. I think ordinary guys would like him a lot more than the decision makers, those male decision makers, realize. I also think that for whatever reason, he doesn't test well. In AC the test is familiarity, which is why most of what they play made it on another format first. And his people don't cultivate radio for whatever reason, in the sense of making whatever back door deals are made on behalf of some artists. They do make sure he makes it to the charts, again and again and again, but his songs never break that barrier into the Top 10 or 20. What you say about the songs is true, Ansa--"Back for More" would've made it on Top 40, I think, but it certainly isn't "a song for singers." How do you break a song for singers on the radio? On the other hand, I think a lot of Clay's songs are as good as any we do hear--not all songs that make it are all that special, so I do think he's facing prejudices and unreasonable resistance. Pkmiller, your DJ said, "I don't mind him." Not I like him, just "I don't mind him." It's an uphill road. But, like ldyjocelyn said, he's going to have a career, radio or no radio. Plenty of other respected artists have had the same issue, from Dave Matthews Band to the Grateful Dead.

Ncgurrl, don't zip up too fast. I think I speak for everyone when I say that your point of view is welcome here, as are friendly disagreements. My personal opinion is that the boards would benefit from letting some disagreements continue a bit more than they do, although the endless repeating of the same points gets nowhere, and the seemingly inevitable nastiness doesn't help, so who knows? At any rate, you made some good points, and I am glad to see that you posted and that we're having a good discussion about this. I don't think the Lamb lady is all that, but I think the whole battle over PR is soooooo tedious. Frankly, there isn't an "expert" on the boards that I would hire if I needed someone to do PR for me. A couple of ventures the "experts" were involved in ended up pretty badly, IMO. Remember "CLAYMANIA: "Idol" Star's Tour Buoyed by Old Ladies"? A bevy of "experts" who thought they could control the message got completely blindsided with that one. Up until then, there was a lot of criticism of Clay himself and the way he handled interviews, but I think that experience made some realize just how hard it is to control the message the media puts out. I find that the conversations about PR on certain boards tend to be pretty one-sided and kind of pretentious. No one who works for Clay is good enough, no other fan-based initiative is good enough, only certain board pundits are good enough--it gets pretty tiresome and, frankly, it does come off sometimes as petty jealousy. Some fans seem to think that no one could do the job better than they. In that environment, the Lamb lady can become an unlikely and possibly undesirable alternative. So, I'm not in love with the Lamb lady myself, but I can understand why she's being praised, because IMO people are just plain tired of the punditry and endless pontificating about how Clay's career should be run. As atinal pointed out, there was a lot of praise for that PEOPLE interview until the Lamb lady posted about her involvement. I agree with atinal. I think fans should stay the hell out of Clay's business and let him run his own career. I understand that speculation can be fun and interesting, but a line was crossed with the whole issue of ATDW and I don't think we can ever go back to the way it used to be. It was implied that fans would be doing Clay's will if they denounced the idea of covers, and that in turn lead to wholesale denigration of the album itself. Some genuinely don't like it, and I have no problem with that, but some put it down because they feel that it is their duty as fans to do so, that it's best for Clay's career if they do so, and that bugs the shit out of me. If asked specifically about the album, they'll admit that they love it, but that seldom gets expressed in the furor over the "mandate". Personally, I'm of the opinion that this initiative has backfired and has actually harmed Clay's career more than most of those who are constantly posting their hate for RCA realize. And there are a lot of sheep-like folks on the boards who have formed their opinions solely on the basis of what certain fan experts say, because they don't think for themselves very well. The end result is, IMO, not good. Fan wank has been spread into the media, and has become "truth" in the same way that Frog wank did--that pisses me off. Well said, both of you!! So no, I'm not cheering the Lamb lady on, but I'm not cheering any other interfering fans on either.

Maybe its those half open eyes of mine, but I didn't read what he said as distancing himself from AI - not in the way Kelly did. All he was talking about was not watching the TV show. I thought he was actually complimenting the show by saying how addictive it was. That to me is not the same as distancing himself from his involvement with AI. He didn't say something like he doesn't watch it anymore because he has moved beyond AI in his career and has no place for it. All he said is for the very first time he is not watching the show because it becomes so addictive it leaves little time for the other things in his life. I see no distancing there and I still think if he were asked he would go on AI. They announced last night that Kelly would be performing on the "Idol Gives Back" program. IMO there is no doubt if Clay were asked and he could fit it into his schedule he would too. I think he would perform anytime if he were asked. (Can you imagine if he were on AI looking like he did at the Gala!! That would wake a few people up!) He just decided that this year he wouldn't watch the show. I honestly do not think it means anymore than that. I think AI is sort of like high school to him. The first few years you're out you try and stay connected by keeping tabs on what's going on there, but after awhile you just stop doing that. Doesn't mean you won't turn up at the reunion, though. Word to this. He said he wasn't watching this year, not that he was distancing himself from the show. I really hope he is involved with the "Idol Gives Back" show--and that they include footage of Mr. Ambassador at work. IMO, they'd be stupid not to, as he is the most visible Idol alum when it comes to charity and specifically to Africa. Just WORD!! This is what frustrates me as well. Expectations are created by people who are only speculating (based on no true knowledge of the music industry) for what, for example, Clay's promotion should be, or what the timetable should be, or whatever, and then when those expectations are not met, someone has to be blamed for it. It was just fan speculation in the first place!! It's kind of like planting the idea that Clay hates ATDW, and watching that take on a life of its own. But what's really important is that in a few months, it'll be :TourExcite:

Looks like Clay's "new publicist" [TM The Pod] isn't doing very well if PEOPLE has to contact someone who runs a fan website and issues press releases on her own volition in order to set up an interview. I do have to wonder why PEOPLE is incapable of contacting the BAF directly, but perhaps they did and got no response. ETA: interesting, Couchie, that media have contacted you as well.

You've got great timing, beenthinking!! Love your board name. You'll have a blast!!

Coming, coming. Nancy leaves tomorrow and it's Mom day, so tomorrow night or Tuesday. I didn't have any "Oh wow" special moments, but he sure was pretty to look at and he sings good too, and the BAF continues to be an organization that earns my respect. Diane, Kristy, Faye, Lynda, Debbie, all of them were just terrific, and the BAF programs are so focussed and effective. Fans are deeply involved, and a lot of grass roots fundraising goes on that earns quite well for the BAF throughout the year--he makes a point of noting those creative fundraising ideas. It's been a good week for the BAF financially and I know the money will be well-spent. YAY!! More Clay please. :Tour3: ETA: I don't think I've ever seen him look better.

Tomorrow night - eeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!

Absolutely! And to quote Lester Bangs from Almost Famous in one of my favorite movie lines of all time: “The only real currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with each other when we're being uncool.” Love that! My friend is arriving tomorrow to visit for a few days before the gala, so I won't be on line as much. I'll be calling to give FCA the scoop -- wish you all could be there. I can't wait to meet those of you who will be. I can't believe I'm actually going to see Clay in a few days. I'm still relatively calm about that, but that's probably because my house is a wreck and that's keeping me occupied. I promise to eeee and squeeee and thoroughly enjoy myself.

That was partly me, but I was thinking radio not tour song selections. I got confused once thinking someone asked about radio charting, and then confused again by another post suggesting LNM as a single. My fault. Sorry. Everyone agreed, which was nice (there were only a few posts though). It was bracing, wasn't it? :F_05BL17blowkiss: Still want to hear more about your TITN love.

It's so much easier once you accept that being a Clay fan will never be "cool," and why would anyone expect that it would be?? Love it!!! Thread title? Congratulations to everyone on your tickets--they all sound like great seats. YAY!!! :Tour3:

And don't forget--if you refresh too much or too fast, you get locked out for 24 hours, so you have to restrain yourself. Sooo true...show me a rocking dude that DF has produced???? If they want him to be a rocker...honestly their best bet is with RCA and CLive...cos thats the kind of music he usually pushes people into. I think they went this direction because thats what Clay wants and what fits his voice the best. I agree. I think they and Clive are on the same side, and that's the irony. I think Clive would have Clay be the male Kelly Clarkson, or else just belt ballads. I think he expected to release that covers album right after the finale and capitalize on the AI5 appearance, but Clay insisted on re-recording and refining if the album was going to be mostly covers. Clay wanted to show his musicianship, the Fosters wanted him to show his musicianship, but Clive isn't a musician. He just wants to sell the most records. I think Clive thought the original songs were too esoteric, and I think some of the Poddies would've not particularly liked those songs just like they were indifferent to the new songs at the JBT. Until the party line became "hate covers, free the original album," then all that was forgotten. The Foster hate (remember when she made that post about the JNT05??) turned to love and Clive became the bad guy. I think David Foster, as a first-rate musician, sees Clay's talent as a vocalist, and wants it to shine. Dion, Groban, Buble--Foster's people--they sing a lot of covers, they sing a lot with large groups of musicians backing them, very similar to what Clay is doing now. Clive is the rocker. It's ironic. It's also ironic that I prefer rocking Clay. Like I said, I just hate people presenting speculation as fact. And besides, I'm so easy when it comes to Clay. I really don't care what he sings. I think he's doing what he wants to do, and that makes me happy. Exactly!! Beautiful post!! :Tour3: :F_05BL17blowkiss:

OMG I just read it LCV! She nailed her. No way out. The Proof. WOW. lightmyfire, you are amazing!!!!!!!! jmh123 set the trap and lmf went in for the kill! They weren't even working together! That was great! Takes a bow. It was an accident, really. It was great team work from two people who didn't even know they were working as a team. I was doing just what playbiller was talking about--confronting the question of a fact, looking for what was known about this subject of who wrote the bio and the press release, and realized she'd forgotten for a moment that she wasn't herself, so to speak. At first I was going to out her, and then I thought I'd give her the chance to out herself. And she did, bless her heart. Then, boom, there was lightmyfire, laying it out for everyone. I admit I fight just for fun sometimes, and I'm not proud of that, but I share your thing for fan wank, and, like keepingfaith, I sometimes feel compelled to present a different perspective for the sake of intelligent people who aren't hearing all sides of a story, or who are hearing conjecture presented as if it were fact. It also bugs me when people are being deliberately misleading. Like with groucho. But fighting with him directly was never fun--it was scary--and I gave that up a long time ago. Good luck tomorrow, everyone. Be cool and be confident. It isn't always the first few seconds when the best tickets turn up. I almost always get my best tickets at unexpected times, I think because I'm willing to wait and be patient. The systems are always overloaded in the first five minutes, and a lot of good stuff gets thrown back for various reasons and shows up later: tickets that were on hold and then go back into the system, credit cards rejected, orders over the limit, and so forth. I've bought good tickets 45 minutes into the sale, 4 hours into the sale. Sold out turns into on sale again. Sometimes the general sale yields better seats than the presale. I get great tickets from other people who bought too many also. I used to buy too many tickets trying to get the best one, but no more. One per venue is my limit. Georgiaclay, I don't think I said yet how glad I am to hear from you and how pleased that you're doing well. Please keep us posted, and I'm confident you'll make it to a concert!!

YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!! :F_05BL17blowkiss: Welcome LovesClayVoice!! I hope you like it here. I've been a fan of your posts for a long, long time--going way back to the very first album thread where we were instructed to never, ever mention the word cover again lest we ruin Clay's career singlehandedly. Gee, wasn't that thread supposed to change Clive's mind? Personally I think it might have backfired big time--by creating a buzz that Clay's fans all hate the album, when in fact it's just a very vocal few, and those who have been influenced by them. You are so patient and yet firm at the OFC. Can't wait for.... :TourExcite:

More--please say more. Most people think of that song as 100% Swiss. I it. OK, presented for further refinement and revision by FCA: Right Here Waiting Short Banter (hello FCA) Everytime You Go Away (audience participation) Everything I Do (I Do It For You) A Thousand Days Banter Here You Come Again Because You Loved Me If You Don't Know Me by Now Banter - here come the sad songs: Broken Wings Without You Sorry Lonely No More Lover All Alone Interlude of some sort - short break for Clay Moon River Banter When A Man Loves A Woman For Once in My Life When I See You Smile Ya Gotta Have Faith Banter MOAM medley f. Run to Me, Perfect Day, The Way & I Will Carry You (the Oprah arrangement, with added strings) I Want to Know What Love Is These Open Arms (no, I swear, it was there all along) Everything I Have Banter This is the Night Measure of a Man (a la Capitol Fourth) Bridge Over Troubled Water Then a few new original songs as a final segment and Invisible & Back for More at the end That's not too long is it? :wicked grin: :TourExcite: Couchie? Anyone? I've got all 16 songs from ATDW here, deliberately. I'll bet he won't sing them all. Lordy, we're supposed to be subtracting, not adding - LOL. I love that song too, but we already have a problem with a bit too many sad songs. Maybe I'll add a demos medley?? ETA: while I was editing, I put Invisible back in due to the second Houston e-mail.

With orchestra? What a great idea!!! Will do. :Tour3: How could I have forgotten?

Yes, please.

Shoot, I forgot to wish JennaZ a happy birthday!!! :2164: More emoticons, this time from my photobucket, while I've got it open: And another request to add this one from Play: Cindilu, you made the tour emoties and the crap sign? WOW!! Off to watch your montage.

While I've got the album out, some more fun emoticons. But wait! First, we've got some cool news ones! HAHA :5: :mixed-smiley-011: :dj10: :music-smiley-023:

Hee - thanks!! Looky, looky!! It's a shout-out to meeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 :TourExcite: OK, so I missed Moon River and FOIML. So what. ACK!! I left out LAA and no one told me. ACK!! Time to do a new version in the light of new info.... But don't you mean a thousand different ways??

"Reach Out" -- just GAH. I would love to hear the full version of that song. Some of my favorite Clay songs are the green-eyed soul songs. I remember when we'd heard that Clay was doing "I Knew You Were Waiting" with Angela and at the next concert I was there and they started the song and I was just going nuts. The guy next to me (who came with me) could not figure out what my problem was. It's just that finally I was going to hear Clay sing green-eyed soul again. When you see Clay live he has such charisma it radiates throughout the audience. He glows, literally. He's mind-numbingly beautiful in person. He's incredibly charismatic, and pheromones just slough off of him as if he were going to impregnate the entire audience. He moves, oh how he moves--he feels the music in every cell in his body. He snarks, and he makes you laugh so hard you cry. He looks right at you even though you're in the balcony and your heart goes into your stomach and you blush--I'm not kidding. But the voice, the voice!! OMG. It resonates throughout the venue. It resonates into your body. It makes you vibrate all over. It makes your girly parts vibrate. You leave at the end of the concert in a daze, like you just had the best sexual experience your life, and you think, "I just have to do this again," and you do all kinds of crazy things to make sure that you can. And the joy--oh the joy. Your face will hurt from smiling so much, and you'll have that shit-eating grin on your face for hours. ETA: My Clay hating sister, my Clay indifferent brother, and my teenaged nephew who isn't a fan went with me and my Clay adoring niece to the JNT 05, and they all literally skipped out of the venue to the car singing and laughing and feeling fantastic.

Welcoming presents for keepingfaith: She's got a bit of a foot-on-the-boot-heel fetish, I hear.

Welcome lightmyfire!!! Wowsa what a fun day at FCA. Maybe we can even get some cool discussions going on Main about music--y'all both would be assets on that topic, and I know Clayzor, myself, and some others would love to talk about Clay Aiken's music.

WOW - great first post, but did you say something? I got distracted by the pretty. Heh. Unconditional and ecstatic--we've got room for a lot of that!!! :TourExcite: Maybe you can join the eHP (evil Houston Posse, I think--it's been initials for so long I'm not sure). Have you "met" KAndre yet? She's got lots of minions but can always find room for another. Hee hee!!! *waves madly at YSRN* Y'all California girls have fun today--I'm jealous. MUAH!!! :F_05BL17blowkiss:

I see lightmyfire down there. It's like a Pod Free Party today!! Hey you, post already!!!! Oh boy are you in trouble! :Tour3:

EEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's keepingfaith!! I'm a huge fan of your posts at the OFC, so I'm delighted to see you here. Congratulations on the Houston concert--you must be thrilled. The internet fandom will drive a person nutso, but this is a good, safe place to be, so I look forward to seeing your posts in our main thread soon!! :Tour3: :TourExcite: Amen to that!!! :pod: