Lost

[Ansamcw]

ldyjocelyn...I think they are two different people. The one Locke helped we have seen before. I thought she was the one that was given charge of the children...

[JennaZ]

Are people just glossing over something that I saw last night, or are did others see this as well, and aren't making a big deal of it yet? Isn't parachute girl the same chick that Locke helped with her tent early on in the episode? I truly thought so -- and if true, plus the way the Others had the file on Sawyer, makes me suggest that the Others have files on every single passenger on Flight 815. To me, it looks as if she's an Other who has studied Desmond's file, and knows everything about him.

I think they do have files on every single passenger. So far, The Others seem to know an awful lot about them individually.

I didn't notice whether the parachute girl was the one Locked helped, but if so, it certainly would suggest that she is not who she appears to be. Of all the photos she could have of Desmond, the one she has happened to be a copy of the same one Desmond has with him. The Others used Nathan to infiltrate the passengers before. I could see them trying it again. Juliet is there, but they had to know that many would not trust her. Someone else, someone who seemed to come from outside the island may be more credible, especially if she could gain the support of someone like Desmond.

The Purgatory theory is a popular one, and it can accommodate the whole range of strange and mystical situations that have arisen on the island.

Here's a theory: Suppose this is all a sort of grand experiment designed to test human interraction, not so much with other humans, but with the island itself. What if the Dharma Initiative was the first to attempt to exploit the island's powers, but the effects of the island lead to the destruction of most participants? Ben may have been the offspring of the survivors, and the primary bridge to a second group, "The Others," who are attempting to do what Dharma could not--understand and control the island's powers.

If someone could find a way to harness the island's powers and export them, the effect on humanity could be huge. There seem to be regenerative powers, fertility powers, electromagnetic powers, and perhaps others, such as hallucinatory powers and "smoke monsters." "The Others" may be voluntary participants in the testing, but what if it was felt that to truly understand the island, they needed people who were unaware of its effects? So this very well-funded group decide to arrange for a planeload of test subjects to arrive.

Maybe they choose an ethnically diverse group of people to test the effects on different races. Maybe they select a brother and sister so they can test the effects on people with similar genetic material. And maybe they choose people with issues in their background so they can watch how the island affects their behavior and motivation. Could the island, for example, cause someone who has never killed before, one of "the good ones," to (i.e. John Locke) commit murder?

They may feel that their methods are justified, because the power of the island could be seen to benefit humanity as a whole. However, isolated, they've lost their sense of perspective.

I don't know. Just an idea. I read another interesting theory that the Losties are all actually clones of the original passengers.

[JennaZ]

Looks like Lost has the end in sight, which is actually what producers have wanted.

Beginning of End for Lost

by Gina Serpe

Finally, some answers—just not the ones Lost fans were expecting.

ABC has announced that the island-dwelling series will run for 48 more episodes, to be spread out over three 16-episode seasons, before drawing to a close at the end of 2009-10 season.

Whether that end is heralded with the shattering of a tropical snowglobe, Jack awakening from a long dream, the completion of a stint in purgatory or—as is most likely—some heretofore unseen scenario, the survivors of Oceanic flight 815 will, one way or another, make their way off the island.

The announcement, first reported last week by E! Online columnists Kristin Veitch and Marc Malkin, comes after executive producers Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindelof publicly called for the network to set an end date for the show—not only to assuage viewer fears that the series, which began to shed viewers in its new time slot this year, was not simply treading water to bulk up its episode count, but to allow writers the ability to plot out the remainder of the series according to the creators' original plan.

Lindelof, who first pushed for such a move during January's Television Critics Association conference, said that having a specific date in mind was "incredibly liberating. Like we've been running a marathon and we actually know where the finish line is for the first time."

"What we didn't know was how long we had to play the story out," Cuse told the Hollywood Reporter, adding that the Lost brain trust has always known where they wanted the storyline to end up.

"By defining the endpoint we can now really map out the rest of the series in confidence," he said. "We sort of view Lost as a mosaic. Now there are only 48 more tiles to go into that mosaic, and we're figuring out, along with all the other writers, exactly where they go."

Full article here.

[Ansamcw]

YAY thats good news IMO. Assures the audience that there is a story...there is a plan...and the writers won;t be extending the story needlessly.

[ldyjocelyn]

I agree -- the show needs a "light at the end of the tunnel," so I think this is a great development.

[JennaZ]

I agree. I remember hearing that most mystery stories are written backwards. That is to say, that you start with the ending so that everything can lead up to it logically. I suspect the creators have always known what their "end" was, but that they just weren't sure how long their middle should be. Now they know, so hopefully, the result will be tighter, more focused plotting.

Of course, three seasons is still a long time.

[JennaZ]

Interesting interview with the creators of Lost here. Excerpt:

LINDELOF: Even the most cynical of fans who go, ''Do these guys know where they're going?'' — they'll get to find out too! And very important is this: They'll get to find out as we go along. One thing I think we have to get out there is this: You won't have to wait until 2010 to get all the answers you really care about. Some of these answers are going to be coming a lot sooner than you think. The reality is, we're not going to make you wait until the last episode to give you everything. Hopefully, by announcing this, fans will be signing on for all 48 episodes, and stay until the bitter end. Of course, it's our job to produce compelling episodes that will keep you watching until the last season. In fact, one thing we discussed amongst ourselves while deliberating the pros and cons of the 3 [seasons]/16 [episodes] proposal is that we can't have two seasons of filler and expect people to hang around. We have to start giving answers now, so the show becomes more of an answer-based show as we work toward this end point.

[ldyjocelyn]

Wow -- thanks for bringing that over Jenna. It really heartens me to read the entire interview -- because I now know that I'm in this show for the long haul. I'm probably not going to like some of the answers, but that's OK, because there will at least BE answers!

[Ansamcw]

OMG...that was so awesome

so many things to think of...

Ben is something else...

I don;t think Locke is dead...

I think Jacob is the spirit of the Island.

so the others seem ageless...they must be spirits.

can;t wait for next week

[ldyjocelyn]

Man, I need to sleep on this episode. So much happened...and yet...and yet....hell, I still don't have a clue about the reasonings of Ben, who the f*** Jacob is, and a lot of other stuff.

Locke! That's gonna be interesting to see what happens with him. Hope he stays around.....

[Clayzorback]

Lord o'mercy. What happened? I had a hard time digesting it all.

So let me see if I got this much straight.

1. A man and his wife? stopped their car to try to help get Ben's mother, who just gave birth to him, to the hospital. Except she dies.

2. This guy then offers Ben's father a job working with the Dharma Initiative? Ben and his father then come to the island.

3. Ben's father blames Ben's birth for killing Ben's mother and he becomes an alcoholic and abusive to Ben.

4. Ben runs away to the other side of the island where he keeps "seeing" his mother and meets one of the "Hostiles?" Or are the "Hostiles really just the natives and residents of the island before Dharma came?

5. Dharma Initiative was not a good thing and they were doing bad things. So the natives became restless and killed them all with some kind of gas? Ben kills his father in this same manner.

6. Ben takes Locke to see his boss "Jacob." Jacob is invisible to Locke but Ben can see him. BUT, as Locke is leaving this invisible entity tells Locke to "Help Me" but Ben didn't hear/interpret what Jacob told Locke. However he did know that Jacob spoke to Locke.

7. Ben then takes Locke to a graveyard and shows him the skeletons of all the Dharma people they killed and then shoots Locke.

Questions, questions, questions.

1. Is Jacob real or was that Ben talking in another voice telling Locke to help him?

2. Is Ben crazy?

3. Will Locke die or not?

Observations.

1. It seemed to me that Ben's "little family" are not happy with Ben. They didn't intervene when Locke was beating the crap out of the one eyed guy.

2. Ben and the others seemed to be unaware of parachute girls existence. So she may not be one of "The Others" but actually sent there by Penelope.

Ansa I liked your interpretation that Jacob is the spirit of the island.

I got a flashback of Norman Bates being his mother with the whole Ben & Jacob thing. I also got a flashback of the Jones Town people mass suicide incident, with the gassing and killing of all the Dharma people.

That's all I got.....I'm Lost.......But loving every minute of it.

Edited May 10, 2007 by Clayzorback

[Couch Tomato]

I'll have to digest the rest later..for now I couldn't get past the fact that with contact lenses young Ben could play Clay Aiken in hte movie version of LTS. heee

[Ansamcw]

I'll have to digest the rest later..for now I couldn't get past the fact that with contact lenses young Ben could play Clay Aiken in hte movie version of LTS. heee

Hey you are right...the kid was thoroughly cute...

[ldyjocelyn]

I'll have to digest the rest later..for now I couldn't get past the fact that with contact lenses young Ben could play Clay Aiken in hte movie version of LTS. heee

BWAH! Personally, I was having Harry Potter flashbacks...but then, I've had Clay Aiken flashbacks when I've seen a few of the Harry Potter movies! *g*

4. Ben runs away to the other side of the island where he keeps "seeing" his mother and meets one of the "Hostiles?" Or are the "Hostiles really just the natives and residents of the island before Dharma came?

Your last suggestion here is what I took out of this. Dharma moved in, the natives got pissed. Geopolitical analogies for the world today, IMO.

5. Dharma Initiative was not a good thing and they were doing bad things. So the natives became restless and killed them all with some kind of gas? Ben kills his father in this same manner.

Are we really sure that Dharma wasn't doing a good thing? It looked to me as if they were trying to form a utopian society...not a bad thing in theory, but usually a disaster in practice. I also would venture a guess that Ben gave the gas, and the gasmasks, to the "hostiles" -- he could have been the leader in this instance.

1. Is Jacob real or was that Ben talking in another voice telling Locke to help him?

2. Is Ben crazy?

3. Will Locke die or not?

1. I think Jacob is real -- and both Ben and Locke have the ability to see/hear him. Again, another Harry Potter reference to me; only a few wizards could speak to the snakes in the books. (Am I reading too much Harry Potter into this?)

2. I think Ben's pretty goofy, but it all may be an act.

3. I HOPE TO GOD THEY DON'T KILL LOCKE! I really don't think so, actually. He's too mystical!

1. It seemed to me that Ben's "little family" are not happy with Ben. They didn't intervene when Locke was beating the crap out of the one eyed guy.

I noticed that too. Pretty funny, actually.

2. Ben and the others seemed to be unaware of parachute girls existence. So she may not be one of "The Others" but actually sent there by Penelope.

I know...that blew my theory out of the water that she was an Other. Damn.

Found this on the CH: Cool Lost site with Screencaps Images of Jacob, maybe?

[Ansamcw]

Theory time...

The Island has some mystical properties...Its probably something like the Bermuda triangle...things get lost in it and it is not really "visible" in an ordinary sense because of its electro magnetic properties...that is why even when penelope kept searching for it they can't find it until the explosion which created a disturbance in the electro magnetic field. So in other words...it is invisible to electronics and probably to the human eye until you get through some electro magnetic barrier.

I think the island itself has a conciousness...it can bring people to it. I think the natives are the people that the island brings to it...are they dead? or they are presumed dead in the outside world but in truth they came through some mutidimensional portal? That is the question. Its seems some people can die but some, like the russian can come to life and that they do not age once in the island. But these natives do not know anything more about the island but they do what the island wants them to do. I think Jacob is the embodiment of the island and he shows himself when he wants to communicate directly to people.

I think somehow some people from the outside was able to discover the island. Its possible that the electro magnetic shield don;t work too well underwater and the island was discovered by a submarine. I suspect the people that discovered it now wanted to study it so that they can harness whatever power it has. So they created the dharma initiative. they took people from all over to study the island and they created the observation posts and the barracks...I also think they created a system that lets them communicate with the outside world. I also think that there is an organization that continues to maintain the island...maybe they don;t even know that the dharma people are all dead...thats why they continue to drop of supplies.

I think the island didn't like having the Dharma people there so it used the natives to try and get them out of the island. I think it recognized that it can use Ben's hatred of his father to get him to help get rid of dharma. So the island lets him see his mother and let him start a relationship with the others. I also think the island waited until Ben was old enough to finally get rid of dharma because it wanted Ben to lead the natives. think the fact that little Ben talked to his dead mom...was a sign to the natives that the Island was talking to Ben and that he was the chosen one. I think once dharma people were gone...Ben assumed the leader position. I think in the beginning the island talked to him directly as Jacob...so this became a sign for the Natives to follow Ben since he is following what the island wants.

But then...Ben started having a god like complex. When he noticed that they can't reproduce ...that there can't be a new generation he decided that should be changed...so he started experimenting...he looked for an expert from the outside, Juliet ...to solve their problems. I don't think the island was happy about this, that is why it stopped communicating to Ben. I think Ben knows that Jacob/island is not happy about him so he was scared to talk to him. I do believe that when they went in the shack...he didn't see him...he started pretending he can see him. I think he has been pretending to be in contact with the island to the others too. I think he was nervous that Locke would actually see Jacob cos that means Locke might be the new chosen one by the island. That is why when the island actually talked to Locke, Ben freaked...because he knew that Locke has a special connection to the island that he does not have. So now Lock is a threat and he needs to ge rid of him, that is why he killed him

I think somehow the island brought jack, Locke and maybe a few others to the island to help get rid of the others or Ben. I think Locke is the islands chosen one...and the others under Ben figured this out because the island healed him and let Ben get sick. That is why they were so fascinated with Locke and they let him beat up the Russian because they think he may be their real leader.

Now the big question mark for me is what is the nature of the island... what is its purpose? what is the role of Jack and the other losties. What did the parachute girl tell the Russian...I suspect the island took over the girl at that moment to talk to the russian..so what was the message? I also find it strange that the father of ben had some leverage with the Dharma head. He was asking him for 30K and was very demanding. I suspect the Dharma leader wanted them to be there and I think it was Ben that had to be in the island.

Hee this is fun...I love trying to figure out the writers minds...so what do y'all think??

[JennaZ]

Lots to chew on in this episode, huh? My theory is that the island does have very unusual and unique properties (which the Asian Dharma guy even says in one of Ben's flashbacks). I think that people have landed there for a long time (witness the wrecked ship where Locke's father was killed), but that something about the island tends to cause the death of most, if not all who end up there. Personally, I don't think it's so much the physical dangers (deadly spiders, smoke monsters, etc.), but a psychological danger that causes normal, reasonable people to eventually become destructive. My guess is that most groups who have landed there end up destroying themselves, if they are not destroyed by others.

4. Ben runs away to the other side of the island where he keeps "seeing" his mother and meets one of the "Hostiles?" Or are the "Hostiles really just the natives and residents of the island before Dharma came?

I do think the "hostiles" are residents who where there before Dharma. I'm not sure they were necessarily a "native," self-populating community, just one that had been there before Dharma. I think they attacked Dharma for their comfortable compound and a consistent influx of supplies, although some effect of the island may have initiated the envy and impulse.

My suspicion, though, is that they needed an insider to effectively eradicate them, and that Ben organized the gassing (using Dharma cannisters). The "hostiles" then took over, continuing to enjoy the supplies and benefits of Dharma. However, to do so, they needed to sustain the illusion that they were Dharma, and to do that, they needed a knowledge of how things worked. I think Ben leveraged his knowlege into a position of authority. It's also possible that as women were not able to conceive and deliver to term on the island, he told them he was born on the island to develop this idea that he has a relationship to it.

1. It seemed to me that Ben's "little family" are not happy with Ben. They didn't intervene when Locke was beating the crap out of the one eyed guy.

Yeah, that does seem to be the case. There seems to be a power struggle going on, as his hold over them no longer appears to be as strong as it once was. Perhaps the loss of the communication system and the destruction of the submarine has begun to begun to make them believe that they are no longer going to get any outside support, and if so, they don't need Ben. His condition has also made him physically weaker, which may have diminished him in their eyes.

Along comes Locke, a man with strong survival skills and a seemingly powerful relationship to the island. His only flaw was that he didn't seem to have the capability to kill someone. Ben attempted to demonstrate that, but with Richard's help, Locke found a way to make it appear as if he had. The hostiles' lack of interference in the fight suggests that many may have begun to respect him, which Ben had to see as a threat. He thus takes him "to see Jacob" so that he can say that Jacob killed him. When his daughter says, "You're seeing Jacob. Bring this (the gun)," perhaps she did so, not because she believed in the threat of Jacob, but because she suspected her father's real motives.

Is Jacob real? That's an interesting question. Part of me thinks that Jacob is merely a manifestation of Ben's mind. I suspect that the island makes people see things which may not actually exist, and Jacob (like Ben's mother and Jack's dad), may be a sort of hallucination. Part of me thinks that Jacob is some kind of invisible entity that took real action. Ansa, your spirit theory is an intriguing one. Part of me wonders, though, if Ben manufactured the confrontation to scare Locke. However, Locke actually heard something speak, something Ben did not seem to anticipate. It may not be "Jacob" but something else entirely, some other weird effect of the island.

I still tend to believe that the Losties were brought to the island deliberately and for study by others. Those others may be the original, outside funders of Dharma who may still believe that a Dharma community exists on the island. Or it may be by a newer group which may even be using Ben and company to further their agenda--the study and exploitation of the island's powers.

Its seems some people can die but some, like the russian can come to life

Someone in my office told me that when the Russian came to the camp, he said something like, "Fortunately, it wasn't set on Lethal." Basically, that he was actually only stunned by the perimeter fence, not killed.

[Clayzorback]

Holy cow. That was very detailed and believable Ansa. Good job!!! I liked it.

I have also thought that if they are not in purgatory then it has to be something like being caught in a time warp or something like the Bermuda triangle Your first paragraph is what I thought too.

I understood/believed that the magnetic field, on the island, was the means that brought down planes to the island. If/when they didn't put the numbers into the computer any plane/ship nearby would crash on the island. When they blew up Locke's hatch, I thought that is what caused parachute gal to come to the island. That is how I think the "natives or hostiles" came to be there.

Another thing about Locke being able to walk again. Isn't it believed that when you die and go to Heaven you don't have disabilities anymore? That is one reason I thought maybe they could all be dead. Instead of believing the island has super powers to heal them. Although that is obviously another reason for him being able to walk again. That would account for them not aging as well. I'm still undecided if they are all dead or in a time warp. But it has been stated twice that the plane crash was found and there were no survivors. So has their soles been trapped here on the island or are they alive? LOL Oy vey.....

I do think Ben was getting too big for his britches, power hungry maybe, and was keeping people from going home. So resentment was building up against him.

I always thought Juliet would come around and be one of the good guys. Do you think that happened last night when she told them to turn the tape over?

It is just so interesting. Can't wait to see what happens next week. Jenna I like your theories too.

In the previews, Desmond told Charley that he was going to have to let him die the next time. No more saving him. So maybe Locke will survive and Charley gets to die instead.

[Couch Tomato]

No comments yet? That was suspenseful. I like Charlie but I love Desmond. Thank god he's alive!!

[ldyjocelyn]

I know -- I started to have my doubts when Hurley wanted to come along. NO HURLEY!!! I don't want you to die! So then, back to Desmond and Charlie, and I simply don't want Desmond to die either. Therefore, I was glad when Charlie knocked him out.

I'm not a big Charlie fan at all, but I really felt for him this evening. Maybe I'm feeling that way because it's certainly seems to be playing out that he's gonna die! I liked the flashbacks for him.

You know what? I enjoyed seeing ALL the island people working together again! Bout damn time. Even Rose and Bernard! (But I have a feeling things won't be good for that couple either...)

I always read Entertainment Weekly's recaps of the Lost episode (this weeks is here). Anyway, I TOTALLY missed the "connection" of the week -- Sayid's girlfriend was the lady Charlie rescued during the mugging!

Sometimes I think this show is TOO dense with information -- incredibly hard to keep track of!

[Ansamcw]

I know -- I started to have my doubts when Hurley wanted to come along. NO HURLEY!!! I don't want you to die! So then, back to Desmond and Charlie, and I simply don't want Desmond to die either. Therefore, I was glad when Charlie knocked him out.

I'm not a big Charlie fan at all, but I really felt for him this evening. Maybe I'm feeling that way because it's certainly seems to be playing out that he's gonna die! I liked the flashbacks for him.

You know what? I enjoyed seeing ALL the island people working together again! Bout damn time. Even Rose and Bernard! (But I have a feeling things won't be good for that couple either...)

I always read Entertainment Weekly's recaps of the Lost episode (this weeks is here). Anyway, I TOTALLY missed the "connection" of the week -- Sayid's girlfriend was the lady Charlie rescued during the mugging!

Sometimes I think this show is TOO dense with information -- incredibly hard to keep track of!

I was wondering why they were focusing so much on her and why they had to choose a foreigner...will they explain all the connections?

ansa

[Clayzorback]

Another good episode. I'm on the thank God Desmond is still alive bandwagon. I was about to cuss a blue streak when I thought he was going to save Charley, yet again. Hee. I feel bad for Charley having to die, but he is going to go out a respected hero. That is if he does die. He knew, and was man enough, to do the right thing and you could feel his love for Claire and the baby. Did anyone else figure out that his ring would end up in the baby's crib? Hurley....Who doesn't love Hurley. I'm glad Charley got to say "goodbye" to him in a way. They were good friends. *sniff* Hurley will miss him.

I am disappointed we didn't find out if Locke is really dead, or not. I couldn't place that as Sayid's girlfriend either, ldyj. I knew it had to be someone, but didn't think of her. I love the French woman. I want her to join them and be a regular part of the series. Haven't seen Rose and Barnard in a long time, so it was good to see them again. He loves her so much.

Next week the final? Did I hear them say there is a special on tonight, with the producers or writers of the show, that will answer our questions? I hope it doesn't come on the same time as my show.

[ldyjocelyn]

Clayzor, what is "your show?" This Lost special is on at 10:15 EDT tonight, after Grey's Anatomy. I'll be watching ER instead though....might have to set the DVR for the Lost thing though.

ETA: They are repeating the Lost special next Wednesday, immediately before the finale.

[Clayzorback]

Grey's Anantomy. I was over reading at that link you provided above.

Thanks lydj for the heads up.

[JennaZ]

Does Charlie have to die? I'm not so sure. Desmond seemed to imply that he needed to flip the switch for them to be rescued. However, there are still several seasons to go. Although so much seems to be leading up to his death, I can't help but think that what actually happens will be entirely unexpected. The telescoping is so obvious that it almost feels like a deliberate misdirect on the part of the producers.

I think major characters will die, but in a stunningly unexpected way.

[Claygasm]

OMG! So many questions!

Were Jack and Kate on the island before this plane crashed? Is that where Jack meant when he said we weren't supposed to leave? What is/was their relationship?

Is Charlie really dead? I mean Locke wasn't. But Charlie sure looked dead.

And is Walt really there or just a healing figment of Locke's imagination?

Who is really on that boat? And who is Naomi?

Did killing Locke's father make Sawyer into a homicidal maniac?

And why do we have to wait until next January before we get to find any of this out??