# 8 My titanium balled, taking his life into his big hands,

[playbiller]

I don't know her, I don't know if she is good or bad - I know I didn't likethe BAF braqcelet promotion, but the people that participated were happy, so who am I to judge.

But I recall reading on some board (I wander around way too much) that some people would not participate in the badge because of theperson starting it. _ everyone has a right to participate in what they want (I did not buy that bracelet that was a fan initiative, my choice). Maybe I was too hard on the blinkie lady (suspicious behavior aside), after all she was deaf and had the miracle of only being able to hear Clay. Everything aside, maybe I am tired of us thinking of the bad side of what people do - haters are not going to stop press releases, so what-ev-er.

So - do you think when Clay said - See you next summer, he was just touor centric or do you believe you will not see him on TV until he is pushing the tour?

[Clayzorback]

Thanks Playbiller for the history, and Ansamcw for clearing up the using of names issue. I think it is great that Clay has many fans who do great things for his charity. I applaud them for having the time and ambition to commit to it. I don't. I just send a check once in awhile. I reiterate that I am happy Raleightravelor's press release garned good positive buzz for Clay. Good for her. Jealousy is such an ugly thing. *g*

I have always watched Jericho, and it is like Stephen King's book "The Stand." One of my favorites of his. I like the show, but I did not like Clay's choice of Amazing Race or The Office. I suggested he watch Boston Legal. *g* I must be a bad fan because I have not rushed out to buy any of his book recommendations either. They sound too heavy and uninteresting to me. I'm a reader for relaxation and fantasy and to escape. Not to learn anything educational or anything like that. Heaven forbid.

[pkmiller]

Hi all!

I live in Tulsa and have been in contact with the Brady Theater for a couple of weeks now. Believe me, we are trying to get everything cleared up. I don't think he knew what hit him today...I finally started getting generic emails. Here is the last one I received:

Dear Clay Aiken fans –

Many of you have written expressing the desire to see Clay perform in Tulsa. To give credit where it is due, then first request I received was from Susan Graves. Susan asked if I could see about getting Clay to come to Tulsa a while back and, as I always do, once I read the e-mail I contacted Clay’s agent.

With that in mind, here’s the good news: we have confirmed Clay Aiken for a show at the Brady Theater on Saturday, July 7. Now, before everyone gets worked up because the fan club site has a Dallas date listed on July 7, I have to tell you that I have already contacted the agent and asked him about that. We just received confirmation of the show last night. I sent an e-mail to the agent this morning asking him to reconfirm the date. There could be an error on his part or an error on the fan club site’s part.

I do not know when tickets will goon sale yet. As soon as the on sale date is set, it will be posted on our web site at www.bradytheater.com. I am sure this event will sell out and I feel confident it will do so quickly. All I can recommend is to try and buy your tickets as quickly as possible.

While I certainly respect every fan’s enthusiasm for their favorite artist, I’ll ask that you please stay tuned the web site for updates. I would bet that I will have it listed on our events page within a few days or two and the information will include prices and when tickets go on sale. Until then, though, please know that a Clay Aiken show for the Brady Theater in Tulsa is confirmed and more information will be forthcoming.

Thank you,

Johnny Buschardt

Road Work Entertainment LLC

The Historic Brady Theater

105 West Brady

Tulsa, OK 74103

We still don't know what date but I wanted to keep you informed.

Peggy

(Geez, I was trying to quit too!)

[bottlecap]

to all dealing with :Tour4: . What a rollercoaster! I hope the Tulsa / Dallas tour date issue gets ironed out soon.

georgiaclay, babe, I don't know where you've been lately, but I miss you. And to prove that I'm serious, I'm going to break down and post the crazy chicken.... AACCCKKK!

:3:

[Divayenta]

Is Jericho on now and on which network?

[Ansamcw]

Is Jericho on now and on which network?

I think it was on at 8 on CBS...

it goes at different times here in Canada.

[atinal]

Marketing/PR : Something about this whole PR thing that gives me a chuckle. When the People.com blurb was first brought over to the boards, there were some posts about how great Clay's new publicist was doing. [because it's so obvious that he has his own publicist now, don't cha know) Now that it seems it was a fan who was responsible for the People interview maybe it isn't so great.

[muskifest]

I'm a reader for relaxation and fantasy and to escape. Not to learn anything educational or anything like that. Heaven forbid.

Clayzorback ...do tell....do tell... You know, I've been known to pen a word or two of fantasy type escape thingies.....

However, some have also said that that stuff I write could be called 'educational', too, so maybe you wouldn't enjoy it afterall....

(With all the admins around here, you'd think we could get a simple 'innocent whistling' emoticon here, you know? :angry22: )

[Ansamcw]

Marketing/PR : Something about this whole PR thing that gives me a chuckle. When the People.com blurb was first brought over to the boards, there were some posts about how great Clay's new publicist was doing. [because it's so obvious that he has his own publicist now, don't cha know) Now that it seems it was a fan who was responsible for the People interview maybe it isn't so great.

well I think the issue is not that a fan was responsible...just that its not the RIGHT fan.

I'm a reader for relaxation and fantasy and to escape. Not to learn anything educational or anything like that. Heaven forbid.

Clayzorback ...do tell....do tell... You know, I've been known to pen a word or two of fantasy type escape thingies.....

However, some have also said that that stuff I write could be called 'educational', too, so maybe you wouldn't enjoy it afterall....

(With all the admins around here, you'd think we could get a simple 'innocent whistling' emoticon here, you know? :angry22: )

ok nows not the time to be cryptic...you know what emoticon to use if we should be running to read something...

oh and speaking about books Clay recommended...did Clay mention Life of Pi before? in what context? Cos I read that when I was sick and I totally enjoyed it...very touching and thoguht provoking.

[playbiller]

Cindilu posted Clays BAF speech at the CH - her is a copy link

[muskifest]

and

THE END!

:F_05BL17blowkiss:

[Couch Tomato]

Does Clay have a body double who is gonna take on the Tulsa and the Dallas dates simultaneously with Clay? Will he lip sync? Will this be a case of Milla Clanilli- or more to the point- just plain Claymydia? That's what I call my fandom at any rate.

Bwah..this cracked me up Diva. I sincerely hope this all works out for everyone though. Sounds really scary if the Dallas date changes.

I am a little confused. Who owns the EddieTheDawg blog/wesite? Is she the one who the freelance reporter talked to about interviewing Clay? The freelance reporter did this as a result of reading this person's press release she sent out about the BA/F Gala? Do I have this right? First I will say that this press release was much better written than the one for the last cd release party. I don't know who wrote the press release for the 1st cd release party but it got much more attention than the last one. I'm glad this press release had a positive result for Clay. Chances are good that most of the time fan involvement will not end in a good way for Clay. I still think that fans should not be doing press releases, contacting business', or anything else that can be construed as acting on behalf of Clay. He has paid professionals to do that sort of thing. That is JMO. Now I am in no way trying to put down anyone in particular. I'm speaking in generalities. I realize she talked with Aron and got permission.

Yeah I was confused to. I don't keep up with this stuff. So what if people want to work hard to raise money for TBAF or even to get some recognition from Clay or themselves. Who are we to measure the pureness of someone's heart. And if she's not stealing the money or doing something illegal then the money WILL go to help somebody. One person's fameho is another person's inspiration.

Frankly I can't even remember if a press release was written for the first parties. If it was it was probably done by what's his name at RHT. But I do know that because Clay was the flavor of that year - hot stuff - everything was easier. There was a lot of resistance to the parties because of board wars if I recall correctly and many didn't want to participate. So I guess this idea of who gets credit is as old as the fandom. I do remember LOTS of little local stories though. There was a nice one written up about a teen here in one of the major papers. Oh God the good old days when things were fun and easy. And I hate when people say that so ...yikes.

As for the last year's press release - it was perfectly written - every comma in place but it was kinda boring for a pop star and I had nightmares about that first line with the fans taking him to number one coming back to haunt us. But bad timing rendered everything moot as it got buried by the presidential appointee press release anyway. Critiquing someone's hard work and motivation seems petty to me so I would have never said anything but apparantly it's become a blood sport. So eh, whatever.

If this violates the TOS - please delete - I know we are not supposed to name someone, but these people have been discussed on many boards for this stuff.

The crime this woman committed previously - I remember, or was reminded by a little birdie

<snip>

On some sites, you can quote any damn blog you want (well, not all, I have learned from quoting the wrong blogs, but a lot of them), but if a fan puts out a press release, with one rather glaring exception, you better not quote it - of course it is a matter of judgement because the press release may mention Clay as an aside.

<snip>

If the press release was approved by BAF - than in my opinion - which holds Oh so much weight, it is no longer a fan press release, just a fan instigated one.

Thanks for refreshing my memory Play. I remember the lamb thing now and the press release and all I have to say about that were those things were butt ugly and if she got one person to buy one then she's a marketing genius. There have been others. I remember the ClayDawgs did a press release for their site when it opened.

But I totally agree about the blogs. Clay Nation is blogging in full force (myself included) and I think it's a great thing. But those blogs go into google alerts just like any press release which really blurs the lines of what is news. Many of them are stating "facts' about Clay's career that perhaps Clay wouldn't even agree with. So what's the damn difference. I mean I've seen many blogs about what Clay has been forced to do and many speaking out against RCA and you really can't tell what's fact and what's supposition anymore At least this press release was facts. At least this person sent these people to the right source. At least this person apparantly didn't bring up mandate. And at least this person concentrated on an area that she is working in and is familiar with. Perhaps it's not all perfect..but you know people aren't perfect. Maybe doing this kind of thing is new to her. Maybe Clay has inspired her to do things she never would have considered. Perhaps she's learning as she goes. So far so good. Like I said earlier - who knows what the final report will be on this whole thing but really whatever Clay chose to say to People is on him anyway. And hell, anybody that can get Clay to blog is ok in my book. heee..well except Jericho. LOL.

I didn't even realize that the badge was a fan project. I thought it was something TBAF involved itself in. Forget the people article, TBAF got 50K. I'm suprised the badge was able to raise so much considering the flack she's taking now. Or was everyone as ignorant as me and just thought it was a TBAF thing. If we just didn't care and gave because it was a good idea than kudos to Clay Nation. Thank god Clay got involved and gave it his seal of approval.

Now for something completely pathetic. I finally learned how to use my blood sugar monitor. I hate needles so really think I didn't want to know how to use it. My mom will be happy - no more..mom can you do my blood sugar? Pathetic..yep.

[muskifest]

Clay Nation is blogging in full force (myself included) and I think it's a great thing. But those blogs go into google alerts just like any press release which really blurs the lines of what is news. Many of them are stating "facts' about Clay's career that perhaps Clay wouldn't even agree with. So what's the damn difference. I mean I've seen many blogs about what Clay has been forced to do and many speaking out against RCA and you really can't tell what's fact and what's supposition anymore At least this press release was facts.

Oooh, couchie....you're so hawt and sexy when you're tellin' it like it is. :medium-smiley-070:

This is SOOOOOO true. All the many 'eloquent' blog entries out there that explain Clay's success or perceived lack thereof---the prolific evidence of Clay's fall from RCA grace, etc. That is all presented as de facto.

When it's merely duh bull-o.

[Couch Tomato]

I don't know her, I don't know if she is good or bad - I know I didn't likethe BAF braqcelet promotion, but the people that participated were happy, so who am I to judge.

Yep there are iniatives I won't give to but I certainly am not in the know enough to pass judgement. I just

keep my purse closed. I felt the same way about TBAF - if you didn't trust it, don't give - not love it to near death like many people did. And I see they're still working their magic as I read some posts on the WRAL comment section.. I mean GET A LIFE or start your own foundation.

Hi all!

I live in Tulsa and have been in contact with the Brady Theater for a couple of weeks now. Believe me, we are trying to get everything cleared up. I don't think he knew what hit him today...I finally started getting generic emails. Here is the last one I received:

(Geez, I was trying to quit too!)

Thanks PK for keeping us up to date. LOL..yeah, this might kill us all...and this is before he even opens his mouth.

Cindilu posted Clays BAF speech at the CH - her is a copy link

and

THE END!

:F_05BL17blowkiss:

Yay, claps for Muski... I can't wait to read the closing chapters.

OMG I just turned to Lost a few minutes earlier and saw Lori Loughlin for the first time ina long time..she looked scary!! Yikes. I mean she used to be Jody on The Edge of Night. heeee. But never mind..I guess 25 years will do that to a person.

[ncgurrl]

Zipppppppp. The string is pulled and a pea slips out of the pod.

I think it does a disservice to assume the questions people have about the PR woman stem from jealously. You may not agree with the reasons for the questions but they do exist. The woman may mean well but she also has a bit of meanness in her. It came out when her grand plans to come in at #1 went awry. The week before the end of the 6 Degrees campaign she started a thread questioning the motives of Ali Edwards and the founders of Autism Speaks. She played Autism Speaks against the autism society. She also claimed Autism Speaks was playing funky with the 6 Degrees campaign and there would be an investigation. The thread was in poor taste and was not up long before it was shut down by mods. Yes, I reported it. Others did also. A week later and she is now best buds with Ali. My point? That is the problem I have with the woman. She does not get her facts straight or her projects fleshed out before she takes off running. So, no, I do not want her writing press releases that are rambling and full of inaccuracies and typos and that mix charity with her business endeavors. And, yes, I hesitate to buy into her grand schemes whether they be Pansies for Pakistan, LambAikens or whatever. I am never quite sure I am getting the whole story or my money is going where she says it is going or that she will complete the project. I did not give a dime to 6 Degrees until I verified it was legitimate. Personally, I think Barnett ended up being the force behind the 6 degrees project. She is the one who kept her focus right through to the end.

I do find it odd that while she was pushing the TBAF badge for all its worth at least one other badge was languishing on the Eddie The Dog site with only a total of $410 in donations. It is the one for Juvenile Diabetes Foundation International featuring Gregory Ellis. I bet with a little notice some of Clay’s fans would have plunked down a donation on that one too. That leaves some questions in my mind. Others may not agree.

Oh and the blinkie light lady. Yeah, she does it to meet Clay and is royally pissed off she has yet to do so. She plays the poor me card at every SoCal event she attends as she sells her Clay bracelets and jewelry. And, yes, there are still many unanswered questions about that light scheme. That does not mean the woman cannot be friendly and nice when she wants to be. She has friends that will defend her forever. But, then so do the book writers and the many other fans with a scheme to make a buck (or a name for themselves) off of Clay.

This pea person will now retreat back into her pod. Zippppppppppppp!

[Couch Tomato]

Zipppppppp. The string is pulled and a pea slips out of the pod.

<snip>

This pea person will now retreat back into her pod. Zippppppppppppp!

Hey NCurrrl... I like your style.

Anyway, I don't chalk everything up to jealousy but my goodness there is such a pattern of slamming people who get recognition from Clay unless of course that person is "one of our own." Like I said in my posts - I don't follow all the details of the fandom and there HAVE been some nefarious folks doing whatever they can to make a buck, get in Clay's inner circle, or just his attention. .One in particular was welcome in with open arms as she spread her venom all over the place while getting the protective seal of approval. .Others are met with suspicion and bludgeoned into submission while the masses are encouraged not to support them.

If there is something real out there - spit it out (which you just did - the real as you see it) . But spending time ripping the press release does no one any good and it does smack of bitterness.And the objections I've seen to it seem petty. Your post is the first time I've seen anything that suggested something other than pettiness. But now here's another dilemma for you. It's over. It's a success. How much will the tearing down of her on any level reflect on the whole thing. I have no answers for that.

I read that press release. I didn't put a microscope to it and you know, it didn't turn me off. It didn't make me go screaming into the night for how it would reflect on Clay. It just didn't. Mispelled words... oh I'm sure they are there but I read it once and the brain fixes those in your head. Whatever glaring inaccuracies were in it wasn't enough to make me blink. Objecting to the fact that Clay may have talked about stuff he wasn't prepared to talk about for example - COME ON!

For the record, I actually agree with Clayzorback. IF it were up to me, there would be a STRONG HARD LINE between fans and Clay and nobody would be writing press releases. But that can't be enforced when it's some peripheral thing to Clay and there is no fair and equitable way of saying who has the right to do it.

On the other hand, had I known about Gregory Ellis. I would have donated to that as well.

And I'm pretty sure I sent Barnett a PM thanking her for all the work she did for this cause. If I didn't I was definitely remiss <TM somebody cute and sexy> She had to deal with the fallout but she kept on truckin'

[playbiller]

I think you need to put the definition of a pod person in the heading becasuse I thinka lot of people miss it when it is published.

I actually raised a question on Autism Speaks badge when I saw it - it did not have the charity information on it and it had an incorrect address -I wondered if it was someone trying to get a free ride on a real charity - sometime afterwards, the information on that badge was corrected.

Anyone could have started that badge, makes you wonder why they didn't.

Blinkie lady - sometimes it seemed like Clayphotogal and I were the only people complaining about her on CB - so many people used to gang up on us - we just kept asking for some sort of proof that she had any approval for doing that task. Honestly, I appreciate simple book keeping - I am a numbers and facts only person. Several people have apologized for attacking me on that board since then for asking questions - not even being nasty, but just asking for some sort of responsibility. Still today - you can't question some fans without being crucified by that fan's followers.

I don't follow the dawg woman and have no idea if she does bookkeeping, but I jut don't contribute to people who don't show it. Since I have never directly contributed to her, not my problem, I am not fighting other fans battles anymore. I think I learned with the blinkie lady that some people are just begging to get ripped off.

I do periodically enter into the pod arguments when they get too absurd, but mostly I have lost interest in that also. It is mostly the damage that I have sees done to the fandom from the endless angst that bothers me. Being a fan is supposed to be fun.

Enough of bad memories - tomorrow is a dog walking day and it is going to pour all day. I need to get to sleep.

Edited April 5, 2007 by playbiller

[ldyjocelyn]

Hey NCgurrrl...or should I say "heyhowareya?"

Anyway, I don't chalk everything up to jealousy but my goodness there is such a pattern of slamming people who get recognition from Clay unless of course that person is "one of our own."

Honestly, I understand that feeling. All of us, I believe, want people who we know (including ourselves) to get recognition. To me, that's simply human nature. I've learned, however, that if someone I know doesn't get credit -- I just have to let it go for my own sanity. Again, this can be a difficult thing (that "human nature" stuff talking), but wallowing in the mire just makes things worse. JMO.

But now here's another dilemma for you. It's over. It's a success. How much will the tearing down of her on any level reflect on the whole thing. I have no answers for that.

That ties into what I wrote previously -- letting things go. There seems to me to be a lot of grudges held in the fandom -- toward Clive, TC, RCA, other fans. Heck, there are a few that still can't let go of the stuff Simon said, and that was four years ago. Again, I'm not saying that it is easy to let go of these grudges, and maybe they shouldn't be let go totally (the "forgive but not forget" thing). However, I guess I just don't see the point of holding on to these grudges on a public board. As couchie said, this particular instance is OVER. What is really the point of publicly stating repeatedly that this was a bad idea a few weeks ago, when the whole incident is NOW finished? And the BAF may have made money from it? (You're right NCgurrrl in that maybe the whole thing is fraud, and you ask good questions. But it is up to the individual to decide that.)

For the record, I actually agree with Clayzorback. IF it were up to me, there would be a STRONG HARD LINE between fans and Clay and nobody would be writing press releases. But that can't be enforced when it's some peripheral thing to Clay and there is no fair and equitable way of saying who has the right to do it.

AMEN.

OK, now for the pretties....from ClayIzzaQT via the CH via probably somewhere else (I didn't make a note of it, I was blinded by the beautiful):

Just gotta say....I'm fascinated by the long, lean finger.

Finally -- muski -- :F_05BL17blowkiss: I'm printing today another ream of paper at work. *g*

[bottlecap]

My 2 cents - I find almost any "fan" pile-on, whether it be Ethel, eddie, or whomever, to be a bit unseemly and I'm sorry if I ever participated in such. The endless bickering is tiresome to me, whatever the source. I'm making a resolution going forward to try not to engage or cheerlead from the sidelines.

Moving on - EEEEEEE! for the final chapter of Southern Heat, although I'm a little sad to see it end. So what's next, muski? Maybe an update on Kenny and Aria?

SmartyPantsSuz from CV won the Wango Tango shirt at the Gala, and I have to bring over this section of her recap, because just GAH!

When I heard that magic word, "SOLD!" I headed for the stage. There he was with those arms wide open. I went up there with every intention of remembering every detail (particularly the thing everyone has asked – "What did he smell like?"), but when he gave me my hug and the beard brushed my cheek, that pretty much did me in. It was WAY softer than I expected and that took me by surprise. He gave me a kiss on the check, and I gave him one back. (Hey! When am I going to get a chance like that again?) Then we took the picture and talked for a few seconds before I left the stage. Some have wondered, given just how fast both Clay and I talk, how much (and what) was said during those few seconds. I wish I had something much more interesting to report, but I was just recommending Guarana and Breyer's Peach Ice Cream floats to him. LOL!! They're pretty good. If Guarana is a little too sweet for you, combining it with the peach ice cream mellows it just a bit. If Guarana isn't too sweet for you, the combination is still tasty.

[atinal]

It seems to me that fans have been interfering with Clay's "business" ever since he's been in the limelight. I've stated several times that I didn't know about the boards until October or November of 03, so I didn't know about "Project Vanilla" (was that what it was called?) I thought it was funny and very clever when I read about it long after the fact. Was that judged as a success because Clay acknowleged it (through a second party) Wasn't that the beginning of the "let Clay be Clay" campaign? Was there something tangible accomplished by that fan initiative? Are these same folks still clamoring for letting Clay be Clay? I'm not sure.

Threre was the PETA thing. I think the fan involvement here probably worked out well.

There have been fans that write responses to every newpaper article, blog, TV diss and DJ putdown, whether they heard it, read it or saw it themselves. Some have been well written, some have not. I've fired off a couple emails myself. Has that helped Clay or hurt him?

Fans calling radio stations all the way accross the country to request Clay be played.

Fans selling pins during the down time of 2005, with every conceivable (and some inconceivable) Clay connections possible. Hey, I purchased over a hundred of those myself and I love them. Did Clay benefit from them? I know some who sold pins donated any extra money to the BAF, but I think there may have been some out there who didn't.

Fans writing reviews of his CD on Amazon or ITunes, that slam the Record label/Clive Davis for making him record covers.

So, yeah, Couchie the thread you started quite a while back about the "Clorilla" was pretty insightful. Ultimately, who's the judge and what's the criteria that determines if the fan initative was successful?

Personally, I don't think it's a good idea for a fan to write press releases and send them out willy-nilly. This one was put out there, it's over. It doesn't look like any harm came from it, in fact maybe some good came of it. Actually, I think it's best to stay out of Clay's business, and let Clay's people do what Clay's people are being paid to do. Clay usually asks for our help when he wants it, like to help save his favorite TV show for instance. Ha

bottle it looks like your 2 cents is worth a couple of dollars at least - the bickering does get old, and it sounds like a good resolution. There really is so much to celebrate as a Clay fan, I need to focus more on that. Now if that little stinker would just announce a concert closer to me, I'd be off to a good start.

Edited April 5, 2007 by atinal

[Couch Tomato]

Just gotta say....I'm fascinated by the long, lean finger.

Finally -- muski -- :F_05BL17blowkiss: I'm printing today another ream of paper at work. *g*

First of all you're incorrigible. And LOL about the lean finger. ShelleyC did a "scandal" about Clay flipping off some fans at a concert QUite funny. But the best, most original one I saw was that Jerome has really done all the singing for Clay Aiken. He denied comment. Poor Clay, all of his awards were taken away. Heee. I just found those posted at the CH yesterday. Hysterical. I forgot who did the Jerome one, my favorite duh, but I'll check and give proper credit. Were some posted at other boards cuz I will have to go check them out.

My 2 cents - I find almost any "fan" pile-on, whether it be Ethel, eddie, or whomever, to be a bit unseemly and I'm sorry if I ever participated in such. The endless bickering is tiresome to me, whatever the source. I'm making a resolution going forward to try not to engage or cheerlead from the sidelines.

It's not New Years but I will try to join you in that regard. Hope this doesn't go the way of my normal ones.

I do have to mention my favorite one though...remember some girl said she saw Clay at the Atlanta airport but somebody in the know said that couldn't possibly be true and OMG her story was picked to shreds and she was called all sorts of names. I think her dad had to come out and defend her. And then a couple of days later Clay was on Kimmel talking about how he lost his keys at the airport? I think she had even mentioned something about him looking through his bags for something --his keys maybe? I'm getting old, my memory is shot. Maybe this stuff isn't worth remembering heee.

It seems to me that fans have been interfering with Clay's "business" ever since he's been in the limelight.

Snipped one hell of a post. In the beginning yes there were issues...board wars started almost right away but we shared a lot more too. Operation Vanilla was fun I thought. So was whichever board it was that sent bribes to TRL to get Clay's video out of the vault. Clayboard maybe? I think it was because really we had a common reality - we just didn't want Clay to disappear. And there are still great things that happen but I thnk suspicion just reigns supreme now. For me stuff changed when LTS was released and watching TBAF being publicly "investigated" within an inch of its young life. I'm glad it survived the love and caring

:medium-smiley-075: :medium-smiley-075: .EXERCISE DAY! heeee

[playbiller]

AH - the suspicion of trolls has an honored beginning of people telling stories and then being heralded and then being trolls. The thing is, if people just always took things with a grain of salt and said - well, that is interesting and move on, it would be fine - but there are people that raise up to heroic status anyone with a shred of information andthose who have to tear them down - I prefer the middle ground of "oh, look at that, wonder if it is true?' followed by not posting anything. I really hate the tear down of posters, really HATE it.

Edited April 5, 2007 by playbiller

[Claygasm]

I hope I don't offend anyone with this post. (I bet that's making the admins nervous! I mean, the pretty colored ink has already been out once this week!)

I have always thought fan involvement with Clay's career has been over the top. I have no doubt it stems from how Clay's career came to be - because of fans voting for him on AI. I think many feel they got him to where he is so they are somehow entitled to run his professional life (and sometimes his personal life as well....). They seem to think they know better than Team Clay and Clay himself. Maybe there are some who actually have expertise in areas that would be beneficial to Clay's career, but the fact is, even if they are outstanding in their fields, they cannot run Clay's career. They don't KNOW what he wants. They don't KNOW what his real people are doing, what plans they have, whether Clay is happy with what is going on, or is miserable. Just as they do not KNOW he hates RCA/Clive and they do not KNOW he hates ATDW and they do not KNOW he really wants to be a rocking pop star.

And yet they continue to act as if they do. There are certain fans from certain boards that seem to feel they know more than anyone else and therefore anyone else who tries to run Clay's life should be looked at with suspicion and disdain and consequently ripped to shreds by Those.Who.Know.All (or rather act as though they do...). Many of these people come from boards that, at least in their own eyes, are the superior, elite boards whose members are truly the only ones who can possibly have accurate information, whose opinions are treated as fact and who feel as if no one else is responsible for anything good that happens to Clay, the BAF, UNICEF or any other project with which Clay may be involved. There is an attitude that they are the ones who somehow DESERVE the best seats at the concerts, who DESERVE the M&Gs etc. These are some of the people who felt so entitled to both going to the Virgin CD signing as well as Kimmel that they had one person holding a spot for 25 people, the result being that some of us who started about 30th in line ended up barely getting wristbands! With some members of some of these so-called elite boards, anyone else in the fandom is treated as an inferior, someone who is tolerated, but whose opinions and actions are not to be taken seriously.

If someone from one of the chosen boards does something, they are congratulated and lauded as being brilliant and getting kudos from all. But if someone from one of the lesser boards does the same thing, they get lambasted as if they are in cahoots with the devil. Same is true for opinions which certain members of the elite boards spout off as fact and because they are from that board(s) we lowly fans are expected to take their word as gospel. How do you think these conspiracy theories so thoroughly permeated the fandom?

Some people from these boards seem to resent it when anyone from another board gets attention for something positive in the Clay world - almost as if they should have exclusivity when it comes to all things Clay. So much so that they become complete hypocrites - applauding something one minute and then, after finding out a fan other than them is involved, dissing it. I hate that attitude.

Personally, I think we as fans should only do one thing - be a fan. Not his agent, not his PR person, not his matchmaker, not his mother, not his security, not his EP, not his record label, not his God. Just his fan - someone who follows and maybe admires Clay, not someone who tries and runs his life.

Problem is, these people don't see themselves as doing that. Whether its because they are just so arrogant that they truly believe they know more and and are more deserving than others, or whether they are just so delusional as to believe that, I don't know. But you see it all the time. Clay blogs and they take out their super seekrit decoder rings to get what he REALLY means and then spout that off as fact. And because they are one of the perceived elite, if you don't buy what their selling, you are wrong, stupid etc.

IMO, these so-called elite and entitled fans are Clay's worst enemies. These are the ones who write their blogs all about how evil RCA/Clive screwed Clay and how unhappy he is not only with the label but with ATDW - all without any evidence. These are the ones who take it upon themselves to call radio stations and tell them about the mandate. And for this they are applauded. But if someone from one of the lesser boards does the same thing, they are raked over the coals and picked to shreads.

I get so tired sometimes feeling as if I am somehow inferior because I do not belong to one of the elite boards. Guess what? While some salivate at the prospect of becoming one of them, I don't. I never have. Why? Because of that prevailing attitude. I read it and it makes me angry. It makes me angry how they treat members of other boards. It makes me angry that they have such an air of entitlement about them. It makes me angry how they treat some of their own who dare to disagree with them.

Now, I KNOW not everyone who belongs to these boards is like that. I KNOW that. I am making generalizations. But I also know that much of what I have said is the general impression many have of these boards and their members.

Extrapolation is part of this fandom and it can be fun, but only when it stays extrapolation and doesn't get presented as fact. I do not think anyone at any board has any more of a valid opinion than anyone else. Why? Because none of us, to the best of my knowledge, are in Clay's inner circle. None of as, as far as know, are a part of Clay's management team. None of us, I believe, even really know Clay! So no matter what board you come from, bottom line is you don't KNOW diddly!

Maybe if everyone from every board remembered that and just went back to the fun part of being a fan there wouldn't be so many fan wars and board wars. There is no one board whose members are better than members of any other board. Different, sure But not better.

Ok, rant over. Now I guess I should do some work!

[atinal]

well, I hope I'm not already falling off the wagon with bottle's resolution, but Claygasm, can I give you an amen and word

[muskifest]

OMIGOD...I haven't read anything that came after atinal's post because I had to QUICK! copy and quote the whole thing! I was going to write something about every single thing you articlulated so well, so YEAY! I bolded the things that gave me whiplash from nodding to!

'atinal' date='Apr 5 2007, 06:10 AM' post='23438']

It seems to me that fans have been interfering with Clay's "business" ever since he's been in the limelight. I've stated several times that I didn't know about the boards until October or November of 03, so I didn't know about "Project Vanilla" (was that what it was called?) I thought it was funny and very clever when I read about it long after the fact. Was that judged as a success because Clay acknowleged it (through a second party) Wasn't that the beginning of the "let Clay be Clay" campaign? Was there something tangible accomplished by that fan initiative? Are these same folks still clamoring for letting Clay be Clay? I'm not sure.

Threre was the PETA thing. I think the fan involvement here probably worked out well.

There have been fans that write responses to every newpaper article, blog, TV diss and DJ putdown, whether they heard it, read it or saw it themselves. Some have been well written, some have not. I've fired off a couple emails myself. Has that helped Clay or hurt him?

Fans calling radio stations all the way accross the country to request Clay be played.

Fans selling pins during the down time of 2005, with every conceivable (and some inconceivable) Clay connections possible. Hey, I purchased over a hundred of those myself and I love them. Did Clay benefit from them? I know some who sold pins donated any extra money to the BAF, but I think there may have been some out there who didn't.

Fans writing reviews of his CD on Amazon or ITunes, that slam the Record label/Clive Davis for making him record covers.

So, yeah, Couchie the thread you started quite a while back about the "Clorilla" was pretty insightful. Ultimately, who's the judge and what's the criteria that determines if the fan initative was successful?

Personally, I don't think it's a good idea for a fan to write press releases and send them out willy-nilly. This one was put out there, it's over. It doesn't look like any harm came from it, in fact maybe some good came of it. Actually, I think it's best to stay out of Clay's business, and let Clay's people do what Clay's people are being paid to do. Clay usually asks for our help when he wants it, like to help save his favorite TV show for instance. Ha

bottle it looks like your 2 cents is worth a couple of dollars at least - the bickering does get old, and it sounds like a good resolution. There really is so much to celebrate as a Clay fan, I need to focus more on that. Now if that little stinker would just announce a concert closer to me, I'd be off to a good start.

Damn. That was good for me...was it good for you guys, too? :Tour3: :TourExcite:

ETA: a big fat MWAH! :F_05BL17blowkiss: to CG, who---as usual---lays it clearly and rationally on the line.

Edited April 5, 2007 by muskifest