# 9 He's a man of a 1000 faces and all of them are great to look at.

[luckiest1]

Me, too, and maybe someday people will realize that it isn't so easy to get your knickers off when they're in a knot.

Thread title. Please????

[keepingfaith]

When I came on the boards last year and read the RCA/Clive/Roger hate frenzy, my first thought was .... these people are idiots. They don't realize that they are disease carriers. That was my immediate reaction, and it has only intensified with time. I love to debate, but not with sick minds or sycophants ... so I'm HERE where I see evidence of neither. I have no idea if the poddies are haters in thin disguise, paranoic prima donnas (to quote John Lennon), or just a bunch of circle jerkers, but I've decided it doesn't matter because the bottom line is the same ... this crap hurts Clay Aiken.

Yeah, I've read the stuff about how some of these people are learned professionals -- lawyers, doctors, rocket scientists, and business and media experts ... but accepting that as a given does not preclude that they are still morons regarding how to effectively and positively support Clay Aiken.

[Ansamcw]

My gosh you guys have been talking up a storm!!! Right now I feel like a bobble doll cos I can't help but nod in agreement with a lot of people's post.

No one said he was happy - but then we went into the album with a bunch of fans whirled into anger over - OH MY GOD!! - an album with covers on it - that really helped the buzz angry fans - does wonders for stocking. Don't even get me started on the fans talking to people about - well.... Clay didn't want to do this album, but you should buy it - yeah, great little sales helpers.

WORD! If the fans condemn an album loud and long, to industry professionals, media, to friends and on the net, no one is going to want to buy it. Talk about negative buzz. Sheesh. Doesn't matter that they thought they were "helping". Pisses me off. :angry22:

And you know...it won;t just affect the media and the industry and TC...but it probably affected Clay too. When the promo started he was very excited by this project...saying that it was closest to what he is and that he was very involved in the process...Then December comes he was no longer talking it up...the poddies conclude he really didn't like it and that its dead...but maybe Clay just lost enthusiasm for it when his fans seem to love putting it down.

Ok let's play. We're Team Clay for a minute. Remembering who your client is, how do you get men and young people to believe it is ok to say out loud that you are a fan of Clay Aiken. <snip>

Personally I feel Clay will need help with any sort of breakthrough or some sort of lucky unexpected break. A duet with a radio darling, a small movie or television role, a fun commercial -- something along those lines to break into the male/teen demo.. I would love him to really get that talk show because I think it would allow some people to see him in a different light. I believe he'll continue to have a good career without catering to those groups. What do you do? Do you just strengthen the groups that love Clay or do you try to reach those groups. Anyway, just some musing for a Sunday night. Any thoughts?

uh oh...playing get into TC's head is one of my favorite games...hee. ITA, right now Clay has lost some momentum as a singer. I think they tried out the cover route and it didn't work quite well cos he just ain;t Micheal Buble, stewart or Manilow. I think right now they may have to try to go the singer/songwriter route, which is the other type of male artist that is selling records right now.. I think we will see more song writing credits for Clay. I really suspect that the label has been pushing Clay to try and write songs more and that is why he seems so defensive about this. I think for the next CD it would be good if they try to get it marketed through soundtracks and collaborations. I also agree that a talk show would be a great way to reintroduce Clay to the public.

I think of how lonely some people are and then how wise Clay was to move back home where he knows people. Since the instigator for the discussion was Kelly, I think how lonely she must be if she ended up dating her opening act once and a musician writing with her (probably assigned by Clive) - dating people you work with always seemed icky to me, although I did it once and lived to regret it, but we are still friends and I don't write vengence songs about him, despite a bad end..Being famous is lonely and that story about the night Janis Joplin died is heartbreaking - she was going to have a threesome with two friends and neither showed so she was alone in a hotel room - and if you ever saw her Dick Cavette interview - she was such a lonely person even in a crowd. I am so happy Clay is avoiding that and getting his own life, making friends with everything he does and filling his life with purpose. I can never see him coming to an unhappy end. He seems so grounded - and certainly knows how it feels to be humbled.

ITA...I remember reading a poster saying that Kelly has no reason to sing or write about how chaotic her life has been or how hard its been cos she has been so successful...WTF??? Don't people realize that huge success can be very isolating and that crazy lifestyle can really destroy someone if they do not find ways to balance their life. thats why alcoholism and drugs and suicide is so prevalent in that upper echelon of artists. I often Thank God that Invisible didn;t go to be number one (I do think it had a potential if it didn;t get pulled so abruptly from some stations) and that it didn't get followed up by two or three other hits. I really felt that Clay;s life at that time was just soo chaotic and crazy already that if he got bigger and had the kind of craziness that accompanies several number one hits he would just want to go back to Raleigh...I am really glad he was able to get this downtime so that he can take a deep breath organize his life so that he is not overwhelmed and he can approach his career in a more slower but more steady pace.

Oh I definitely agree with you Play. I just want Clay to keep making music forever and I want him to be enjoy what he does. I guess I'm just tired of hearing that Clive has something personal against Clay so he did this to him purpously and used Roger and everybody else close to him to do it. The music industry has formulas and it's a copy cat industry. You really don't even need any grand conspiracies to understand why they went the covers route with Clay. I simply thought they were catering to who they believed his demographic to be. I think not being about to do exactly what you want is more the norm than any sort of special Clay treatment.

YUP...I always thought the problem Clay had was that his CD came out when so many other high profile RCA artist was out with their CDs... Why would I believe a melodramatic and illogical explanation that Clive wanted to crush clay when its more logical to think that they simply thought Clay would do well in the cover artist because they misread his core fanbase? I also think they want to extend his fanbase to the same demographic that Micheal Buble and Josh Groban has...but Clay didn;t go AC enough with his song choices.

Early on, I wanted Clay to be the next Elvis, I wanted that rocket ship to the stars for him, I wanted the naysayers to have to sit up and take notice. Now, I want him to be happy, and healthy. I want him to be able to live his life and I want him to be around to entertain me "his way" for a long long time.

WORD.

Right now I do think that for some Poddies its important to cling to the belief that Clive and Roger was out to get him...because they really did act on the rumors and questionable inside info...and didn't just keep the discussion in the boards but went on to mention these theories to industry professional that probably hurt Clay is some way. For these people...they will Cling to the RCA/Clive is evil notion to justify the stupidity that they did. At least...they can tell themselves that they did it to help Clay...they just don;t want to face the possibility they did contribute to the less than stellar sales of ATDW.

Play....WORD on the possible character of the people working in the background for Clay. Roger is not some lowly person on RCA...he has a very high position in the hierarchy and he does handle a lot of high profile artist of RCA. He is probably very good at his job. usually people who are good at their jobs can get away with being flamboyant and colorful in their language and even the way they act and dress. When I heard what Roger was supposed to have said I just kinda rolled my eyes cos I didn't think it was really bad at all...could be just Rogers colorful language or that he was pissed off by something or maybe he is just frustrated at the time with Clay...that happens...all I know was I didn't think it was too bad but I do understand why some people that are more protective of Clay and not used to this kind of language would be upset and over react.

[Claygasm]

Me, too, and maybe someday people will realize that it isn't so easy to get your knickers off when they're in a knot.

Thread title. Please????

Oh God yes!! Karen Eh? - you are one funny lady - and insightful too!

:bier:

[Ansamcw]

Last time I looked the job description of being a fan said nothing about telling people how to market him, telling the distributors how to do their job, telling his publicist how to do his job, telling the head of his label how to do his job and telling everyone within ear shot that that Clay hated the album but they should buy it anyway. I thought the "job" of a fan was to enjoy and support the artist and have fun!

Did I miss a memo or something????

WORD!!!

it isn't so easy to get your knickers off when they're in a knot.

Bwah! And PLEASE, KarenEh?---make sure you and I get a chance to meet again at one or more of the concerts so that I can totally humiliate you with a big, sloppy kiss! :TourExcite:

:large-smiley-003:

BWAH!

HEE you guys sure know how to keep things in perspective.

Yeah, I've read the stuff about how some of these people are learned professionals -- lawyers, doctors, rocket scientists, and business and media experts ... but accepting that as a given does not preclude that they are still morons regarding how to effectively and positively support Clay Aiken.

WORD!!! I think a lot of people forget that the music industry is very different from other business. So what ever expertise they have may not apply. I really don;t mind people debating and discussing on the boards as long as its a given that nobody is really an expert and we really don't know anything...its all speculation. Unfortunately you have two types of fans that are spreading the malaise...the fan experts that think they know whats going on and the fan followers that take what the pseudo experts say to heart and take it as gospel and spread it to others. I just hope people use more critical thinking and always question the source of these opinions, rumors and "inside info".

[ldyjocelyn]

Me, too, and maybe someday people will realize that it isn't so easy to get your knickers off when they're in a knot.

Thread title. Please????

Oh God yes!! Karen Eh? - you are one funny lady - and insightful too!

:bier:

Ah -- forget thread title. I'm thinking this should be the new subtitle for the entire board!

My head is tired of nodding from agreement today -- way too much to quote, and not enough time either. I'm glad I'm here.

[Couch Tomato]

Ansa, I think Clay could have handled whatever success came his way. So I still wish major critical, industry and commercial success for him. He has all the talent to make that happen.

I totally got a different vibe from the videographer. I thought she was curious and incredulous and simply not fangirly. She was talkative and still doing her job. She was whipping up excitement and making sure to get engaging video. I understand why she was hired. The end result shows she did her job. Do I wish she was fangirly and all in love with Clay and saying he was the bestest evah? Of course. But you don't have to feel that way about somebody to do a great job. The fans I thought did a great job of explaining why they love Clay. I don't know why anger and bitterness are still there over this woman, who is a nobody, all these months late. I don't think she was the voice of RCA. She was hired because she was good.

Following the link to the article about the concert in Knoxville. There were several comments by fans hoping he sings all the songs he wrote. What songs? Somebody else wanted all the rocking socks left off the album. Clay fansare so cute.

[Ansamcw]

Ansa, I think Clay could have handled whatever success came his way. So I still wish major critical, industry and commercial success for him. He has all the talent to make that happen.

I totally got a different vibe from the videographer. I thought she was curious and incredulous and simply not fangirly. She was talkative and still doing her job. She was whipping up excitement and making sure to get engaging video. I understand why she was hired. The end result shows she did her job. Do I wish she was fangirly and all in love with Clay and saying he was the bestest evah? Of course. But you don't have to feel that way about somebody to do a great job. The fans I thought did a great job of explaining why they love Clay. I don't know why anger and bitterness are still there over this woman, who is a nobody, all these months late. I don't think she was the voice of RCA. She was hired because she was good.

Following the link to the article about the concert in Knoxville. There were several comments by fans hoping he sings all the songs he wrote. What songs? Somebody else wanted all the rocking socks left off the album. Clay fansare so cute.

Well now yeah...I do think he can handle it...but there was a time there in 2004 when things seem to overwhelm him. That is why I was thankful that whatever big things that will come his way didn;t happen all at once. I do want big success in the industry for him too. I am no longer worried about him precisely because I think he found his footing and is much stronger than he was 2003 -2004.

[ldyjocelyn]

Ansa, I think Clay could have handled whatever success came his way. So I still wish major critical, industry and commercial success for him. He has all the talent to make that happen.

Totally agree. I think (and I may be putting words into your mouth here, let me know so you can slap me later) that the difference here is the word "wish." I wish the world for Clay as well. Do I expect it to be handed to him on a silver platter, though? Nope...but I get the feeling some do. Clay's a hard worker, and he's hella talented. He'll get there on his own terms.

The other thing that I keep going back to when this topic comes up (way too frequently for my blood pressure *g*) is the time frame. I do believe that more and more success will happen for Clay -- IN TIME. He had a buttload of stuff happen to him in 2003 and the beginning of 2004, maybe too much for him to handle immediately. But, with time, he's gathered some experience in this stuff. Also, I want Clay around for a long time. He'll have some peaks with his career, but also some valleys. It's just the way of the world, really. There's no way for him to continually top himself, without some letdown. Why can't people see that?

So, the videographer is in question again? *eyeroll*

Following the link to the article about the concert in Knoxville. There were several comments by fans hoping he sings all the songs he wrote. What songs? Somebody else wanted all the rocking socks left off the album. Clay fansare so cute.

I saw that. Let's see, all the songs he wrote: LAA, LNM, and the Peanut song. Short concert.

And people wonder why Clay Aiken fans get a bad name.

[Couch Tomato]

Did I really write rocking socks. heee. Must be lunch time.

[Ansamcw]

Did I really write rocking socks. heee. Must be lunch time.

BWAH didn't even notice it..well of course I do have tons of typos myself..my eyes probably automatically corrected it...

[Claygasm]

Following the link to the article about the concert in Knoxville. There were several comments by fans hoping he sings all the songs he wrote. What songs? Somebody else wanted all the rocking socks left off the album. Clay fansare so cute.

I saw that. Let's see, all the songs he wrote: LAA, LNM, and the Peanut song. Short concert.

And people wonder why Clay Aiken fans get a bad name.

Don't forget the candy song! Although, I guess he cowrote that with the candy manufacturer....

Did I really write rocking socks. heee. Must be lunch time.

I thought you meant rocking socks! You know, like rock your socks off???

[Couch Tomato]

OK BWAH to Clay sharing rights with the candy manufacturer.

When Clay's first album came out he was the "it"guy. He was extremely hot in all of 2003 and 2004. I'm sure it was very easy to get Clay just about any show they wanted him to be on. And I'm sure in most instances Roger simply had to pick up the phone and say yes or no.

In 2006, that was no longer the case. And, he had been pretty beaten up in the tabloids which may have presented some problems as well. So yeah I can sit here in the comfort of my computer and say Clay should have been on theToday Show and and TES and GMA when the reality of making that happen might not have been as simple this time around as picking up the phone. First of all, it was new TV season as well so lots of the entertainment portion of these shows will be filled with it's own network stars. Second maybe choosing to make a splash an entire week on GMA was considered the best way to go. And this is the part nobody wants to hear, maybe TES said, uh we have all out singers booked. Thanks but no thanks. Not no like we hate Clay Aiken but no in as sorry, we're booked. I think a lot of people are angry because Roger supposedly said folks didn't want him. I have no trouble believing he said that in some form or fashion…interpreting that through one's own filters can make that come off all sorts of ways. And my filter is different on all sorts of things like the videographer and the poster bruhaha so I'm just automatically skeptical. Add to that all the snide and bitter attitude directed at him that day and guala - you have an incident.

They booked him where they could. Why is that so difficult to believe? Because in 2003 he was the it guy? This is a fickle business and things change all the time. Next time around the timing of everything might be better or even worse, who knows.

Thanks for the info on Norah Jones. Yep when she sold 20 mil she was every damn where - the darling, couldn't escape her and I don't even follow her. But sell 3 million and while that's great, it's no automatic invitation. Clay gets the same treatment as everyone else, go figure.

And here's the thing I don't even like Roger and will do a happy dance if Clay were ever assigned someone else. He was too involved with fans and frankly that's a no no to me. Not only that, the record will show, from my posts, pre release - that I was neither happy or impressed with what RCA was doing. After it was over, I saw what they were going for. I saw the plan. Did it work as well as they thought? No. But that's business, not personal.

Like I said earlier, the number of artists that have atonomy and can do whatever they want are the minority. We have well known superstar cases like Prince...hell too many to count. Record companies aren't benevolent organizations. That's just the way it is. It's a tough business for everyone.

[Claygasm]

Not only that, the record will show, from my posts, pre release - that I was neither happy or impressed with what RCA was doing.

Ah, but see here's the difference between you and the poddies. It is one thing to think RCA screwed up. Its another to think they screwed Clay, that there was a deliberate plot to "bring Clay down", to destroy his career, to make sure ATDW tanked. The first is simply they made a mistake, a miscalculation - or so it seemed (I still think it may have been a low key promotion on purpose because of the tabloid crap - and with it the knowledge that the next project would be treated differently - but that is just a result of my own imagination).

The second is so absurd I cannot imagine why it has taken on such a life of its own. The idea a company like RCA would sink tons of money into the production of a CD just so they could turn around and undermine it so they would lose tons of money just to destroy the career of someone. If they hated Clay so much, it would have cost them much less to just, oh, I don't know, terminate his contract? They are his bosses. If they were unhappy with him they could just fire him!

I feel confident this next album will also be with RCA. It will be interesting if there is marked difference in its promotion.

Of course if there is, some will claim its all because of the letters they wrote.....

[keepingfaith]

Reading that this subject was in full turdblossom at the CH I went over there. CH is not one of the sites I usually check out unless there's a reference to something there, such as today. Holy Crap, there are a couple of serious babywhippers over there, just whipping the baby to hear him cry. That's just crazy. And, of course, they are self-described experts, probably geniuses, I don't know ... but they don't know jackshit about doing the best thing for Clay Aiken.

I read enough Roger hate to make me sympathetic to him ... and I know nothing about him -- other than Quiana has a picture with him on her MySpace and calls him "Fabulous". Maybe if someone did hear Roger say something about Clay "going down" the actual words he said could have easily related to the expectation that his sales numbers would be "going down" and that bit of knowledge wouldn't take a mind reader because that was and is happening to every artist in the business.

I can tell you this ... I'm up and excited and positive and tickled about seeing Clay this summer in concert. I'm in heaven. Why anyone wants to muddy up the fandom with this bullshit again, within weeks of his summer tour, makes me go hmmmmmmm.

[muskifest]

Reading that this subject was in full turdblossom at the CH I went over there...Holy Crap, there are a couple of serious babywhippers over there, just whipping the baby to hear him cry. That's just crazy. And, of course, they are self-described experts, probably geniuses, I don't know ... but they don't know jackshit about doing the best thing for Clay Aiken.

keepingfaith, you've supplied some serious bellylaughs for me in these few sentences!

I board a jet plane again tomorrow, friends---this time for a jaunt to the eastern Florida shore....then---hopefully---that's my last travel until...

FRISCO! :TourExcite: :Tour3:

Edited May 14, 2007 by muskifest

[luckiest1]

I can tell you this ... I'm up and excited and positive and tickled about seeing Clay this summer in concert. I'm in heaven. Why anyone wants to muddy up the fandom with this bullshit again, within weeks of his summer tour, makes me go hmmmmmmm.

I couldn't have said it better myself. That's exactly how I feel. So I think it is in my best interest to just step back for a couple of months until July 4th. I don't want or need my enthusiasm dampened.

I have all my tickets bought except the Biltmore. The only ones that haven't arrived yet are Knoxville. Apparently there was some screw up with the amount of postage on the envelopes for Canadians. Hopefully they'll arrive soon. I have a spreadsheet just to keep track of who bought what, who's sitting where, who's driving, who booked the hotel, which hotel it is........craziness. Happy craziness.

:Tour3: :TourExcite: :Tour3:

[ldyjocelyn]

I can tell you this ... I'm up and excited and positive and tickled about seeing Clay this summer in concert. I'm in heaven. Why anyone wants to muddy up the fandom with this bullshit again, within weeks of his summer tour, makes me go hmmmmmmm.

Totally agree. TOTALLY.

I think I'll go watch some clack now.

:TourExcite: :TourExcite: :TourExcite:

luckiest1, I see that great minds think alike, as we posted the same sentiment at about the same time. *g*

I have my two tickets to my shows. All I need to do now is rearrange my flights -- being an idiot for booking a flight before having tickets in my hands. I may just cancel and start over, if I can without penalties.

[playbiller]

But, but, but ... I thought Clay signed with another label and that is why RCA is dissing him - because they are angry at losing him!!!! Really.

David Foster will foster his career while dissung his sisters mishandling of Clay, forcing Clay to write tragic but rocking songs to be sung with symphonies.

Noooo - He can't be with RCA

ETA but seriously folks - I just have concert tickets and no firm plans for Texas except a car rental somwhere -

Edited May 14, 2007 by playbiller

[muskifest]

I'm still frozen from doing anything productive by my fertile imagination working with the fact that Clay is going down.

[lightmyfire]

Wonder how many FURCA pins I will be viewing the night of my evening with Clay...ROTFLMAO!

The faction of RCA haters are stressing 'cause Clay remains a RCA recording artist....figured an implosion would most likely occur after the Kimmel stint....

Some aspects of the fandom never change....

ETA...Ciao Clayzor...now, YOU...you never change either which is a good thang... :F_05BL17blowkiss:

Edited May 14, 2007 by lightmyfire

[Clayzorback]

Ditto to every single poster in here today. I've already said what most of you have said for over a year now on the OFC and I am so glad to find a board of like minded sane people. My blood just boils when I think about the harm and damage Clay's own fans have done, & continue to do to him. I just have to let it go. I can no longer engage with certain people. Don't even want to hear another single word they have to say. I had to find the scroll button and start considering the source. The intense OTT fans have ran so many fans away from Clay. They have turned so many people, in Clay's chosen field of work, off too. Pretty soon no one will want to book him on anything anywhere. It is so sad that they just can't recognize themselves as being the problem. Even sadder is that I think some do, but just don't care, because they are no longer fans. They just like to stick around and make the other fans miserable.

The disappointments with Clay and his career are so many with some people. Why don't they leave and go follow someone else? Probably because this has become a habit to them, now, and they can't break it. The boards have become their lives. Besides who wants to leave a "room" full of people who kiss your ass and think you are the cat's meow. Who bow down and high five you on a regular basis. Who think you are just the smartest thing evah. Why this is probably the only adulation they ever get in their lives. I've always thought it a shame that some people aren't as smart as they think they are. I've read some pretty stupid stuff that never came to be. Oh well, I feel my BP starting to rise again. I can no longer discuss things in a civil respectful manner with some fans anymore. They don't deserve respect but that's immaterial. Going back to my happy place.

In the words of Bob Barker "Clay, come on down."

Make Muski and Clayzor's fantasies come true............ :medium-smiley-070:

[playbiller]

YOu want your blood pressure to rise - try ggetting insurance in New Jersey - sheesh - 3 hours on the phone and I have the insurance card, but it doesn't take effect until I prove I had insurance for 18 months before - but that company does not send out the letter provving that ot you until several days after your insurance lapses - in the mean while you have to pay for any doctor's visit or perscription and then file a claim to get the money back. Idiots. Retroactively it will all be straightened out - but since they know the day you don't have insurance - why not send the letter out early? - dead silence on the other end of the phone. = And my dog eats my mail!

Be comforted in the fact that there are poddies who come here to read, not post - so you get your point across - it may be mocked, but it is heard.

[Clayzorback]

Wonder how many FURCA pins I will be viewing the night of my evening with Clay...ROTFLMAO!

The faction of RCA haters are stressing 'cause Clay remains a RCA recording artist....figured an implosion would most likely occur after the Kimmel stint....

Some aspects of the fandom never change....

ETA...Ciao Clayzor...now, YOU...you never change... :F_05BL17blowkiss:

Hey lightmyfire................ :F_05BL17blowkiss: I LOVE YOU..........

I need me one of them thar FURCA pins. Couchie???? Anyone??? My request list is for pins keeps growing. LOL

ETA: You're right. Clay remains an RCA recording artist and it is just killing some people, isn't it? LOL I thought there would be much more angst and head exploding going on too. Just wait. It'll happen............

Edited May 14, 2007 by Clayzorback

[lightmyfire]

Wonder how many FURCA pins I will be viewing the night of my evening with Clay...ROTFLMAO!

The faction of RCA haters are stressing 'cause Clay remains a RCA recording artist....figured an implosion would most likely occur after the Kimmel stint....

Some aspects of the fandom never change....

ETA...Ciao Clayzor...now, YOU...you never change... :F_05BL17blowkiss:

Hey lightmyfire................ :F_05BL17blowkiss: I LOVE YOU..........

I need me one of them thar FURCA pins. Couchie???? Anyone??? My request list is for pins keeps growing. LOL

Seriously, how many times have I stated...YOU CAN NOT INVENT THIS STUFF...twenty plus years, never witnessed anything like it...EVAH!