#20: Clay is just so frickin' cute! Cute, cute, cute!

[luckiest1]

I love Ruben but he did have breath control problems at times during AI2, and I thought they were pretty apparent in the song he sang as his solo in yesterday's AI Rewind. You know what was funny? It wasn't until I watched it through a second time yesterday that I realized that the song that both Ruben & Clay sang for the "create your own melody" portion was the same song. Hee. Shows you how much difference a melody can make to some lyrics. And how unobservant I can be!

[KAndre]

Me 'n my girl KF may not be on the same page as the Beatles...but like her, I did not find early Clay physically attractive in any shape, form or fashion. Just a freakishly gorgeous voice. Pre AI Clay was definitely not the type I would have ever gone for...as I have always liked more conventionally pretty dudes. I can really see the talent in the top ten though - except for Carmen. Heck, I can even see a little of what they saw in Corey - faintly skeevy really does work for some people. But hearing them in the "here's-some-crappy-lyrics-make-up-a-melody-overnight" did a good deal to separate the sheep from the goats. And honestly? I would have put Ruben's and Josh's at the top as the most poppish, and Clay's and Kim's right under them. Vanessa's sounded good but was so totally derivative - hell, even I recognized the melody. But I think Clay got it in one - people who saw a real opportunity and choose to work at it made an impression. But I also thought Clay was one of the best gameplayers there - the pitchpipe was totally to bring attention to himself in a charming way and I admit, it worked for me. I will lay you odds that the smartest there realized quickly that more face time on the TV was a necessity from the get go.

One thing I wanted to ask, was it really a "maybe" room? I thought it was always two rooms going through, one room going home, and a lot of editing to fuck with the audience and provided "tension".

Ruben? I could here from the beginning that he had a good, trained voice - on the breath control, I'm not sure because I could hear everyone sucking air except Clay - and listening to Clay, I now hear every other live singer sucking in air.

[jamar1700]

Guess we are going to have to agree to disagree

Well there isn't any disagreeing about when Luther had his stroke. And while you may not hear it...there IS an obvious comparison that MANY other people do get, including the judges in the early rounds of AI. There is nothing ghoulish about that at all. Luther, at that point in time, was still performing and recording. There was no hint that he would suffer a stroke. Not to mention that while Luther was a popular musician in his genre there is no way that he was ever what anyone would call mainstream pop. I highly doubt the "AI machine" set out to replace him in the music industry.

Sometimes things just happen for no reason at all.

[playbiller]

maybe room

I don't know why I always got that impression. Let's look at who was in which room.

From the beginning, the judges seemed to really like Ruben - he was in what I think of as the definite room.

Frenchie was with Ruben, Kim L was with Clay.

Kim C was with Ruben, Kim L was with Clay.

Rickey was with Ruben, Charles was with Clay

Corey (I just did NOT see anything in him, did not like the voice), Vanessa, Josh, Bettis Candice Coleman were with Ruben, and all had been featured some

JD (can't sing) Adams, Trenyce, Sequoia Patrick Lake were with Clay, JD and Patrick were featured.

In reviewing the elimination rooms, I saw Quiana as the calm in the storm, when all about her were falling apart, she and one other person were comforting all the others, As they were being dismissed, she was nodding her head in agreement, with others looking panickked.She was quite amazing then, but probably among the older and actually mature contestants in that room.

[Ansamcw]

I was kinda a Ruben fan in the beginning. Yeah he had breath control problems but I truly loved the tone of his voice and his personality. I can see where the Luther comparison would come from.

Pre AI Clay? I think I would be interested in him if I got to know him. I really like tall skinny guys with fine features and wicked sense of Humor. I had a huge crush on someone like that in my choir. BUT I dont think I would instantly be attracted. Like KAndre...I was easily distracted by obviously pretty guys. But I tire of them easily once the personality is revealed.

The maybe room...somewhere in the back of my mind, I seem to have a recollection that KimL or even Clay said something about them being in the maybe room. This was never officially mentioned in the telecast, they were just the yes rooms and the no room. I think they will be showing the deliberations next week so that mystery will probably be solved.

[Couch Tomato]

Comparing idols to well known established acts is just what AI does, not just for Ruben but most of them. Ruben sang Luther songs - something he had probably been doing in his act before Idol, and it's really an obvious comparison to make. IIRC he copied his Superstar pretty closely. To me they had an obvious and easy niche to put Ruben into and he fit IMO. And I wish he had stuck to that kinda Luther Vandross R&B because frankly he had about as much street cred as Clay to do hip hop IMO.

Being that Luther Vandross was my absolute favorite artist before Clay, and the only artist I have seen multiple times in concert (well MJ before he went totally bananas), and that I probably have 80% of every Luther album ever made I thought the similarities were only surface but so are most of the comparisons. Luther had a warmth to his voice that is unmatched IMO with any of these up and coming R&B singers. Luther had a strong R&B following though and broke out of it only a couple of times. I don't know his numbers but I don't think he sold multi platinum after multi platinum album. *funny how I never ever cared about that with Luther --just keep singing to me. His last album, was his most popular album. He didn't win Grammys before it although he had been successfully singing his ass off for years. But other than Dance with My Father I didn't like his last album because it was filled with hip hop stars trying to make Luther relevant. Well he was always relevant to me just singing gorgoeous R&B and COVER SONGS. More than anything he was a darn cover artist... just call me a cover lover LOL. Yes he was successful and had a great career. I just wish he had gotten all the props he got after he got sick before because IMO he had earned them. And yep Jamar, Luther had his stroke towards the end of Idol and I think if I'm not mistaken wasn't he going to be a guest on the show? Maybe I'm making that part up.

And yep Ruben had breath control problems, so did Kim. But none of them were perfect and most of these kids had real talent and IMO do not need the bells and whistles of a studio to make them sound like they have talent. Well at least my top 5 did. Now, Ruben was probably my fifth favorite that season behind Clay, Kim, Trenyce and Ricky, and I hated that he was never criticized because he did deserve it sometimes, but IMO the boy can sang.

About, Corey...yeah. I think they were going for a definite type there.

Yep Jamar, another easy comparison for me - a poor man's El Debarge. He looked like them and tried to sound like them but he only had one halfway decent sing which I can't remember right now. hee.

Guess who's off work today?

Go on. Guess.

beyotch.

[KAndre]

But it struck me that the judges liked a lot of them in the beginning - and Corey more than anyone else. I would say Kim C was next. Especially in the original Hollywood epi, one of my major complaints that it was hard to tell why some moved on and some didn't - they just didn't show enough actual singing and was overly focused on pushing a more "reality program" vibe on the show.

I dunno - I think it was still early in the game for both the judges and the audience for strong favorites.

I agree with Couchie on the Ruben/Luther comparisons - and I hadn't seen the Corey/El link but as soon as you said it, I TOTALLY saw it.

Now Ricky is one that I just never got. At all. But then again, the "Hercules, Hercules" schtick worked my last nerve from the get go. And I thought KimC was pretty strong at the beginning - it wasn't until later that it was clear that she had topped out.

[jmh123]

What bugged me about Ruben is that he would wander around the notes so much that it was hard to find the melody and he came off sounding off-key to me. You can use melisma and still nail the notes of the melody. Something positive we learned about Ruben this episode--he did a great job in the writing portion. The judges were impressed. And the melody he wrote, he could sing.

[Couch Tomato]

But it struck me that the judges liked a lot of them in the beginning - and Corey more than anyone else. I would say Kim C was next. Especially in the original Hollywood epi, one of my major complaints that it was hard to tell why some moved on and some didn't - they just didn't show enough actual singing and was overly focused on pushing a more "reality program" vibe on the show.

I dunno - I think it was still early in the game for both the judges and the audience for strong favorites.

I remember that Kim Caldwell was my brother in law's favorite for a while at the beginning. Kim had talent too..she just had no range and it took until about week 4 to go..oh we've seen all she can do and it's good for what it is but it's nowhere enough. Julia was pretty good right until she got an audience and then OMG she totally fell a part. But yes, they obviously cast the show and there was probably a lot of people way more talented than all the picks for the top 12 but they were looking for more than just voice. For instance I think Trenyce beat out Quiana because of the "glamour" aspect. They really aren't looking for the best undiscovered singer in America. They just wanna put on a good show thus, reality show.

Well crap..off to

[lilyshine]

I will lay you odds that the smartest there realized quickly that more face time on the TV was a necessity from the get go.

I may be pulling this out of my nether regions, but I vaguely remember Clay talking disparagingly about contestants who were always playing to the cameras while off-stage. He said something to the effect that it was about singing, not being a camera-whore. (Such naiveté!) You can see some of it during the early auditions, but I had the impression that the camera crew was rushed whenever they appeared. I think that's one reason some people, like Marcus, had a lot more tape than Clay did.

ETA. I agree that contestant "balance" - girl/guy, black/white, ballad/pop, even style & lack thereof was all important and trumped singing ability.

I also thought it was very telling that Corey introduced himself as having style and personality - no mention of talent. I also thought it was Verrrry amusing that they didn't show Corey doing the smoochy, smoochy with Paula. If my timing is right, the Hollywood auditions were the time of the supposed affair.

[KAndre]

See, I don't remember Clay saying something like that - and can't imagine him saying it because it seems clear to me that he knew 1) he needed a good backstory; 2) how to work the cameras like a pro; 3) and it was always more than about just singing. I don't see Clay as part of the mob rushing the camera at the wrong time, but the boy definitely worked it when he was on it.

Marcus was just the biggest brown-nosing suck-up in the entire world. I think they should have given him a plaque!

[jamar1700]

and I hadn't seen the Corey/El link but as soon as you said it, I TOTALLY saw it.

OMG me too! Hee. I had forgotten all about DEBARGE! Was El the one that ran off with Janet Jackson? There were so many of them.

If I'm not mistaken Kim C (& Corey too?) had already tried out for POPSTARS (Jaymes's show *g*) & knew how the game was played. They both just struck me as the type that would do exactly what they thought the producers wanted. Professional auditioners as it were.

[Gibby]

I may be pulling this out of my nether regions, but I vaguely remember Clay talking disparagingly about contestants who were always playing to the cameras while off-stage. He said something to the effect that it was about singing, not being a camera-whore. (Such naiveté!) You can see some of it during the early auditions, but I had the impression that the camera crew was rushed whenever they appeared. I think that's one reason some people, like Marcus, had a lot more tape than Clay did.

Hmmmm, I'm wondering if that's really true. Clay may have said that, but I think that at some point I think he realized that he needed to be on camera, although he probably wasn't a camera-whore per se. I'm interested to see what kind of backstage clack we might get. There may be a lot of backstage footage of Clay that we never saw, but will get a chance to see now. I'm really thrilled with that possibility!

[playbiller]

Lilyshines, with all the Clay junk in my head - some real, some imagined, I do not remember Clay saying anything like that. I think that he commented on the party people, way back when, something about people getting paid to go out or maybe people acting for the camera, but it might have been another contestant. I thinkI have finally had download overload, I can't remember interviews and stuff very clearly anynmore, there is just too.much.stuff! Sacrilage, I will go hang my head now! Or throw myself down another flight of stairs. No, I will pay my parking ticket, yes, that is what I will do!

[Couch Tomato]

Now Ricky is one that I just never got. At all. But then again, the "Hercules, Hercules" schtick worked my last nerve from the get go. And I thought KimC was pretty strong at the beginning - it wasn't until later that it was clear that she had topped out.

I hated the Hercules Hercules schtick. I think he tried to get away from it but it was too late. I appreciated Ricky more after the show when I listen to his mp3s from the show and the AI2 concert. His voice is beautiful IMO. And he got cut after Endless Love which made me heartsick. It was one of my favorite performances from all of season 2. I blame that damn Corey Clark for that...because he had thrown everything out of whack the previous week.

I think Janet ran off with a lesser Debarge heee. That is one big ass family. I actually prefer the Debarges that were part of Switch. There'll never be is one of my favorite songs ever. Dang I need to get that in my ipod. I have it on EP.

Hey play, it's all one big gooey wonderful mesh for me as well.

[Guest Toots]

Well I just got back from doing the last of my Xmas stuff!

merrieeee, merrieeee...It's not nice to tell that to people who haven't even opened their Christmas wallet yet?

Please tell me I'm not the only one obsessed with him kissing the camera at the beginning?

I'm thinking he was just so glad to have his feet back on the ground. Don't think he had flown much before AI, but again INS (I'm not sure)

I can fly across the country and rent a car and drive all over but ask me to drive to San Francisco and I start shaking.

That's because you are one smart tomato I'm with you girl, leave the scary bridge driving to others!

I thought Corey was skeevy from the get go but poor little Pauler almost wet herself every time she saw him. Ughhhhh!! Poor little Pauler loved those skeevy kind of boys.

Well crap, I'm on top again and no picture of Clay to be on top with, of, on, or, well you know!

[PermaSwooned]

Gibby, I am finding myself strangely hypnotized by your avi. Can't imagine why.

Well, others have said all this already, but when has that ever stopped me?

I distinctly remember Clay himself saying that he was in the "maybe" or "on the fence" room in some interview lost in the recesses of my memory. They have structured the show so differently now, we might never have seen him.

The judges did seem to indicate that they thought that Corey had the "whole package". It wasn't just Paula. That's a really frightening thought, and every week when they would praise his horrendous falsetto or otherwise gush on him, I tried to figure out what I was doing watching that show, or what Clay was doing ON it.

His talent was just too remarkable to be ignored, fortunately, and we are all the richer for it.

I'm not sure he deliberately went searching for camera time, but I remember in the EW magazine article that interviewed the top 12 (mainly without Vanessa), they described him as the "class president" and that he was the most outgoing and talkative. That was the first time I ever heard of a "pig pickin'", and would never have imagined that I would be attending one within the next year (more or less).

I really never thought that Quiana lost out to Trenyce in the casting. I think her biggest competition was probably Frenchie and Kim L. They were all talented, with somewhat comparable voices, but Frenchie and Kim L. had much bigger personalities, and I think Quiana probably was shyer about showing her personality then. She's really only coming into her own in Clay's shows NOW. If Frenchie had been removed from the show earlier, I think Quiana might have had more of a chance to make the top 32. As it was, I think they had already filled their "Aretha Franklin" quota.

I'm off today, but not really. I have to finish one research project submission and try to make good progress on another. Plus wash clothes. And start packing. And make up a photo book gift for the bride-to-be's parents.

Y'all will be relieved to know that I found something to wear for the wedding at Hilo Hatties in Orange. I have no idea what that store is doing there, but I'm very grateful.

AND......because I don't WANT to describe the statistical analysis methods for this study I'm working on, I edited another picture........

Know what I mean?

[Guest Toots]

Hey PermaSwooned, have a great time in Hawaii and best wishes for a wonderful wedding! Do you play golf? Great place to play because it's so warm and humid..makes the body feel good.

[jamar1700]

I think Janet ran off with a lesser Debarge heee.

^^^ CMSU!

But being the curious type...I had to know. Your right! She was briefly married to James Debarge. Definitely a lesser Debarge. He's currently touring with his brother Chico BTW. Hee.

[Couch Tomato]

You could be right Perma. I think I always put her in the Trenyce boat because they were both similar in complexion, size, and big diva voice. Quiana would have been duking Trenyce out for those Whitney songs. I do think Quiana is a much better singer than Trenyce, much more polished and professional, but Trenyce's voice was a bit more distinctive IMO. I honestly don't think Frenchie would have gotten that far. She had a good voice but she was more personality ..one which would have worn on people over time I think. I haven't watched the show yet, did Trenyce get any more time in the hollywood round?

ETA: hee James DeBarge... thanks Jamar I wouldn't have been able to sleep tonight without knowing that factoid.

Yes I'm at work, why do you ask!

[Guest Toots]

Hey lucky, scoot over to the Parenting thread. I left a message you will find interesting.

[ldyjocelyn]

I think Simon's - and for that matter everyone at AI's - conundrum with Clay - was just what do you do with a guy who obviously has oodles of talent but whose image goes against everything that sells in the pop music world. Let's face it - the entertainment industry is a very visual industry. Looks sell and Clay did not have the look that sells for a young white male pop star.

His talent was undeniable. I think they also recognized his charisma. But how do you market someone like that, someone that goes against everything that traditionally sells in pop music?

Ultimately they decided to leave it up to America. It sure seems, though, that the powers that be still haven't quite figured out how to market Clay.

What was it that Gladys Knight said about Clay? That he was a mystery and she didn't know what would become of him in the music world?

I think that's one thing I love about this ride we're on. So much about where Clay is going is still a mystery, still unpredictable, still surprising.

Keeps things interesting.

I think this is what I was trying to say earlier (but very, very badly). I do think that Simon thought there would be women who would be attracted to Clay....but in his mind, those aren't the kinds of people TBTB wanted watching their show, or buying albums.

But you know what? I'm just glad that America could get past "shallowness" for once and see the talent and the personality. BTW, I'm with kf and KAndre in that I thought the hawt came much later. (I could see the "cute," but that for me was much more personality than it was physical looks....)

couchie and Cha Cha Trusty -- glad you had a fantastic time!

And yeah, I do believe Randy and Simon would take a good looking mediocre singer that cound dance over Clay any day of the week because to them that sells. But building up the season to be image vs talent was a great thing and it allowed Clay and Kimberley and Ruben and Ricky to actually be contestants. America didn't vote for the pretty people in the groups, they went for talent.

Totally agree with this assessment.

I love Ruben but he did have breath control problems at times during AI2, and I thought they were pretty apparent in the song he sang as his solo in yesterday's AI Rewind.

Yeah, I really noticed it watching last night. It's too bad too, because the tone of his voice is really pleasing to me.

You know what was funny? It wasn't until I watched it through a second time yesterday that I realized that the song that both Ruben & Clay sang for the "create your own melody" portion was the same song. Hee. Shows you how much difference a melody can make to some lyrics. And how unobservant I can be!

IT WAS?!?!?!?! Heh. I still didn't get it. I'll have to watch the episode again to see that.

Me 'n my girl KF may not be on the same page as the Beatles...but like her, I did not find early Clay physically attractive in any shape, form or fashion. Just a freakishly gorgeous voice. Pre AI Clay was definitely not the type I would have ever gone for...as I have always liked more conventionally pretty dudes. I can really see the talent in the top ten though - except for Carmen. Heck, I can even see a little of what they saw in Corey - faintly skeevy really does work for some people. But hearing them in the "here's-some-crappy-lyrics-make-up-a-melody-overnight" did a good deal to separate the sheep from the goats.

As someone who was only half paying attention during the Hollywood rounds, the making up a melody thing was very eye-opening for me. And yeah, the talent in the top 10 was there. (See: almost all the medley sings, something AI has never been able to accomplish since that point, IMO.)

Comparing idols to well known established acts is just what AI does, not just for Ruben but most of them. Ruben sang Luther songs - something he had probably been doing in his act before Idol, and it's really an obvious comparison to make. IIRC he copied his Superstar pretty closely. To me they had an obvious and easy niche to put Ruben into and he fit IMO. And I wish he had stuck to that kinda Luther Vandross R&B because frankly he had about as much street cred as Clay to do hip hop IMO.

I'm just gonna follow around couchie and WORD her today. I think this is absolutely true about AI -- "fit a type, you're in." It truly is amazing that Clay made it in that respect, because he just didn't fit any mold.

What bugged me about Ruben is that he would wander around the notes so much that it was hard to find the melody and he came off sounding off-key to me. You can use melisma and still nail the notes of the melody. Something positive we learned about Ruben this episode--he did a great job in the writing portion. The judges were impressed. And the melody he wrote, he could sing.

Really noticed that about Ruben too, although Clay (and almost all the singers that come from AI) have that problem too, at least with melisma. Clay could keep them in tune at least....but I've still wanted to say to him more than a few times, "could you just FIND a note you like and stick with it?" (See: the final note of the SSB at the Raleigh baseball game. I still can't watch that clip to this day anymore....)

Perma, I really like your style around here. You stop by, write something, and then end with a pretty that we all go "GUH" over. Thank you for your pictures. And darn you, I keep wanting to change my avatar every time you post a new picture. Oh, and have fun at the wedding!

[Couch Tomato]

One more posthoing note....

The pin order has been placed and Ansa is taking down the order form so that we can preserve the extras we have for FCA members. If you want a pin and didn't order one yet, please PM me. I will give you my paypal address and we can keep track of the final orders. We have about 13 Doing Clay in the Heartlands available and but about half of that for heartland. If you need to mail a check or money order that's ok too..just PM me.

ChaCha I have yours on reserve already.

[KAndre]

Yeah, I think Quiana was probably more consistent and professional, but neither she nor Trenyce struck me as particularly outgoing - I do think Trenyce played the stage a bit better at the time.

Oh man, Switch! I can still picture that album cover with 50 billion jheri-curled covered DeBarges! All looking just alike!

[rohdy]

Sorry to interrupt....but Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Venue approval has been received for the Birthday Books collection.

In fact they were quite taken with the idea and very supportive! Yay!

Now if I could just get the post office to open and give me a box number!!! Arrrrggh.