#21: "Surprisingly, the ice did not melt."

[Clayzorback]

I'm all for free speech. If I can't be allowed to have an honest opinion or give honest feedback to Clay, about anything, then fuck it. Message boards aren't for me. If I am expected to have to suck up to Clay 24/7 and think he is the second coming of Christ, every single minute of the day, for every thing he does, then fuck it. Message boards aren't for me. That is what I see happening in this fandom, and it is WRONG< WRONG< WRONG. The "positive" fan police trying to get Clay's fans to all be "stepford claymates." They want all positive posts. Fluffy saccharin, non stop, until it makes even Clay's teeth fall out. LOL You have one or two people, in this fandom, IMHO, who are disrespectful in their critiques of Clay. Because of that, everyone else in the fandom has to pay the price, if they want to post that they don't like something.They have to suffer a pile on from the fan police. I'm glad that my husband's illness has taken me away from the boards for awhile. It isn't fun to post when you can't do it honestly without being put on the defensive, and feeling like you are being publicly flogged for not liking his hair a certain way, or that he brings fans up on the stage, or just whatever. You know?

Some people say that if you post things, you don't like, respectfully, then that is okay. I say bullshit. It doesn't matter how respectful you try to post your dislikes about something. The same people will seek you out and tar and feather you for it. What I don't see, though, is the "negative" people piling on the "positive" people. No flogging them for their fluffy non stop saccharin posts, that I'm sure Clay knows is not always sincere.

I know a private board, I'm sure I don't have to name the board, that has set up a thread titled "Time To Take Out The Trash." The sole purpose of this thread is for their members to bring "negative" posts from other boards over there and post them into that thread. To alert the fan police. That way their members can go to whichever board the "BAD" post is on and beat up on the poster. I mean after all, there is more of them than there is negative people. That is their belief. Take out anybody that dares to state they don't like something and have the unmitigated gall to say so. How dare them. They think that the more they post positively, behind the negative posters, that Clay will think all the whole fandom loves him except for this one bad apple, who had the audacity to honestly post their feelings about something.

IMHO ticket sales and cd sales tell the true story. So the fan police can continue to try and stifle any post that isn't all susie sunshine all they want, but sales will be the true barometer of how many fans like what he is doing, and how many don't That's my two cents. One more thing, then I will shut up. It breaks my heart that some posters and fans that I have respected and loved to read and follow on the boards have succumbed to joining this particular board of which I speak. It also saddens me to see this board becoming infiltrated with members, from there, who support this type of agenda and that board owner in her other activities.

My post is not intended to put down anybody who wants to be positive and loves everything Clay does. I just wanted to give my thoughts and opinions and observations. So thanks for letting me speak my mind. Carry on.........

[Couch Tomato]

would she be the mean admin?

well last night I got approx 1 hour of work in which is not good seeing as how I'm trying to work to get enough money to actually see this wonderful show for myself. So I'll probably skip the next two cellstreams ...don't want to miss his birthday..although I'm sure he won't remind the crowd ..I just want to "be there" for that one. The thought of eating out of the dollar menu in Minneapolis doesn't appeal to me.

Just teasing you Ansa.. Ldy J was up up up last night and she has clack so I think perhaps you'll get a view of the complete stage. Looking forward to seeing it.

Here's the thing Clayzor - I don't know anything about that board of which you speak. I don't know who the members are unless they tell me. And then I'm not going to flag them unless they cause problems here. If I do more than that then I become what I hate. If I hear about the activity as I have in the past - I will speak against it. That's all I can do. I understand your feelings of frustration. I just think the members here are quite capable of dealing with whatever comes..and that includes you.

ETA: to me, if people come to FCA and are genuine and making it their home, then fine. If it's not really to join in but to lecture I think people are intuitive enough to know that.

[Guest Toots]

Well damn couchie, you had to bring up the Honey Crisp Apples didn't you? I just found them at my grocery, brand new, small as crab apples and $3.29 a lb. I'll just eat my mealy old gala's and pretend they have the crispness of the crisp honey crisp apples.

See what happened when someone here liked them. Would that be called a "Group Think"?

O.k. I'm leaving

[jumpingjacks]

Most people find it difficult to flog someone who posts positive thoughts....they may gag while reading it but, really, how do you say to someone "You thought his hair looked great? WTH are you thinking...it looked like shit."

I don't think I have ever said a bad word about Clay on the boards. That doesn't mean I'm suzie sunshine, it just means I temper my remarks because, as I said yesterday, it doesn't make sense to me to discuss something when it's already happened. It's a done deal. If I can't change it and I know that, why would I presume to think I could convince anyone that I could?

Clay doesn't ask for my input on anything he does and, quite frankly, I like it that way. I don't want the responsibility of trying to run his career...I have a hard enough time with my own.

[Couch Tomato]

heee unfortunately toots, too many people said the honey____ was just a regular old apple so we need to step up the programming methods. Demmit.

[Ansamcw]

Oh yeah run and hide couchie...HEE

well I was working most of the last three days...and I really wanted to see Gorgeous clay pictures...I guess being deprived is not good for my mood.

Clayzor...all I can do or we the admin can do is reiterate our commitment to keep this board open to different opinions...as long as they are presented in a respectful manner towards the members and Clay...no problem with that.

ITA with couchie...since I have never been to that board you are referring to, I do not know who their members are...since I and ldyj are the ones in charge of validating new members...the only real criteria is that the registrant is not a spambot. We will always give every member the benefit of the doubt. If its true that there is an attempt to control boards to tow the positive only line...they will not succeed here.

BUT...as someone who was branded as a positive police in my old board...I have to tell you that I usually have a positive view and I do usually disagree with doom and gloom pronouncements. I won;t argue with someone's opinion of what Clay does or how he looks like or how he sounds like but if they start extrapolating what they think to what the whole fandom thinks ...or what the industry will say...or some conclusion as to what direction clay;s career will be going...I usually will give a countering POV. That is not meant to shut up the other person...just to present my opinion. I am certainly not part of the fan police you are talking about and I hope you won't think that speaking up for the members rights to EEEEEEEEEEE and defend Clay is not an attempt to control the boards thinking.

ok..ok...I guess I did join the discussion on opinions...if you can't beat them and all that...

but please...more pictures!!!!

hey...I'm on top...please don't keep me hanging...hee

[muskifest]

jumpingjacks....surely this is a rhetorical question?

how do you say to someone "You thought his hair looked great? WTH are you thinking...it looked like shit."

I know a number of people who would say this....and HAVE said this, actually!

The computer tech guy was just here checking out people's computers. Ask me how skeered I was that he would poke around my hard drive (heh) and find some incriminating Clay stuff.

When my AIW closeup desktop appeared, our admin asst. who was hanging around said, "That's her boyfriend."

The young guy said, "Oh. He's.....sexy. He's looking like 'I'm sexy and I know it' with that twinkle in his eye."

Could've knocked me over with a feather! He didn't know who it was at all and even when I said "He's a singer" (pointedly NOT saying ..."that was on American Idol" and holding myself back from listing all the wonderful things he IS---humanitarian, entertainer, comic, HAWT hunk, etc.)...he just said, "Oh, well....that explains it. I'm NOT into the top 40, so wouldn't know one from another. Actually, I'm not hip at all."

OMG...I almost :lmaosmiley-1: When I got my breath back, I just said, "Well then, you and Clay would get along just fine because he'd be cracking up to hear you say he's sexy and he proudly carries the banner for all nerds! BWAH!"

As for my computer being so freakin' slow, when the tech guy checked through some programs, he said, "ITunes is a famous space hog, you know.n It does a number on a processor's speed."

Pfttt! I said....step AWAY from my iTunes, bud! Sexy Singer Man has to serenade me throughout the day in order to prevent multiple suicide attempts!

[ivy]

Clayzorback I am a long time member of this board as well as a member of that other board (shhhh). The following statement is not true:

Take out anybody that dares to state they don't like something and have the unmitigated gall to say so.

I'm aware of the thread you mentioned and I even posted in it about some inappropriate videos on You Tube which ridiculed Clay. Yes there are those who would like to counter some of the negativity at the OFCB with positive posts. I doubt it has to do with "anybody" commenting about things they don't like. People had an opinion and expressed it and what they wanted to do about ongoing negativity/hate. So what.

It also saddens me to see this board becoming infiltrated with members, from there, who support this type of agenda and that board owner in her other activities.

Sorry, I did not know I was an infiltrator. I thought I was a regular fan who belonged to multiple boards and who enjoys reading the first hand reports here about events that others attended.

Do I now need to provide a list of the boards to which I belong and have that list approved by others?

Kick me out if you must. It will make me sad but such is life.

[playbiller]

HEY! Am I in the right board???

Was there a concert last night???

I can't believe we only have ONE picture from last night???

I see lots of opinions about opinions. I wanted to comment on it but then...when will this gerbil wheel stop...sooooo

may I please request for more PRETTIES!!!!

hee, not only a concert last night, but another one tonight! and his voice gets better and better.

Negativity - I don't care if someone doesn't like Clay's hair or thinks something is off key. I just don't wnt to hear it 50 times from the same person, once or twice a night is enough. What I like here is: people say what they want and move on. I can agree or disagree. What I am offended at is: people who feel they know Clay's life and decisions better than Clay and he better listen to them or else or anyone who makes threats about his future. You can not like something, but declaring him stupid for doing it is annoying. Once is enough for me to ignore that person. Also on my no no list is someone who insults my family or friends, just the way I am. Say what you will about me, don't care, but I can be very defensive of others.

Positivity - life is not all roses, a lot of time when I don't like something that Clay has done or said, I will wait a while and it is changed, turns out to be a false rumor or I no longer care. I think instant response is only for terrorists or life threatening emergencies. Is that being too positive?

ETA got it, never mind.

[Ansamcw]

Clayzorback I am a long time member of this board as well as a member of that other board (shhhh). The following statement is not true:

Take out anybody that dares to state they don't like something and have the unmitigated gall to say so.

I'm aware of the thread you mentioned and I even posted in it about some inappropriate videos on You Tube which ridiculed Clay. Yes there are those who would like to counter some of the negativity at the OFCB with positive posts. I doubt it has to do with "anybody" commenting about things they don't like. People had an opinion and expressed it and what they wanted to do about it. So what.

It also saddens me to see this board becoming infiltrated with members, from there, who support this type of agenda and that board owner in her other activities.

Sorry, I did not know I was an infiltrator. I thought I was a regular fan who belonged to multiple boards and who enjoys reading the first hand reports here about events that others attended.

Do I now need to provide a list of the boards to which I belong and have that list approved by others?

Kick me out if you must. It will make me sad but such is life.

Definitely not...did y'all read our board policies??? As far as I know we never asked for board affiliations as criteria of membership...and no one has ever done anything to be banned for...so bygones please...

[KAndre]

KAndre eyes the "mean" admin, reaims her pointing finger, and proceeds to laugh at the second least scariest admin...than pats her tin-foil hat protecting her brain from the "Honeycrisp" propagana...

Blasphemy ahead - I've never been one for "no holds barred" free speech, because I've known too many people who use their "honesty" to bludgeon others' self worth and reputation, both "negative" and "positive" people. The internet has done a lot to strip away a lot of social conventions and not always in a good way. Eh. I realize I'm approaching my "ad nauseum" rule. OK, if the next 5 people can tell me what I'm gonna say, I'll stop.

As a concert virgin, I shall give my opinion of the concert (with many, many, MANY apologies to the 2006 Purple Prose writer, Emma Gads from whom I've plagarized wholesale.)

KAndre jumped as the knock came on the door. It was him. It had to be. Muting the TV with the remote, she leapt up from the couch and hurried out of her living room. In the entryway, she took a deep breath and put her best smile on. It didn't matter that much, but she still wanted to make a good impression on the man who would be the love of her life. Her hero.

She flung open the door, more than ready to be swept off her feet.

She wasn't.

This guy was definitely not the man of her dreams. He had spiky/bangy/blondish/blackish/reddish hair and a round face with a hint of a double chin but great cheekbones. His faded jeans were a size too large, his shoes five years too old (but really big), and outlined underneath his bright orange football jersey was a definite paunch (maybe).

"Hey there," he said cheerfully. "I just moved into the apartment next to you. Figured I'd come over and introduce myself. You know, since we'll be sharing a wall and all that."

"Oh." She bit back a sigh, swallowing her disappointment. Where was her hero? "Well, that's nice. I'm KAndre."

He stuck out his hand, his face lit up in a boyish smile. "Clay Aiken."

"You're kidding," she blurted out. What was going on? Why would a name like that be wasted on a secondary character? "You're not the hero of this story, are you?"

His smile fell, and he pulled back his hand. "Uh, yeah. I'm pretty sure I am."

KAndre took a step back, studying him again from head to toe. "You can't be! You're pudgy! And you don't dress well!"

He flushed and crossed his arms over his chest. Seeing his embarrassment, KAndre's cheeks burned. She hadn't meant to be so rude.

"So?" he said before she could apologize. "What's unusual about that? I'm a pretty average guy."

She shook her head. "Hot singer men aren't average guys. They have to be perfect. In 75 million different ways. (HA! Thought I was gonna say "thousand"!) And sing like frickin' angels."

"That's not fair. There are plenty of chubby heroines. Readers even applaud them for being so realistic. And I do sing like an angel."

"Yeah, well." KAndre shrugged. "With the hero, it's different. Women don't want to listen to average guys. It's all about the fantasy."

Clay gave a snort. "Right. So in this world, a woman doesn't have to be model thin to catch a hot guy, but it's okay for the hero to end up with an average kind of woman? That's not cool."

No, it wasn't, but what could be done about it? No one would want to read a romance with a man like him. Heroines had to be intelligent, and heroes must be muscular--not forty pounds overweight!

"Who cares?" she said with a sigh. "Romances are written for women. Like I said, it's all about the fantasy."

His nostrils flared. He was getting annoyed now. "Okay. Sure. Why is it again that women dislike porn? Because it's unrealistic and objectifies them, right?"

KAndre gasped. "Ohmygod, I can not believe you said the P word!"

"What, porn?"

"Romance is not porn," she argued.

"I didn't say it was. I'm just drawing a comparison here. You know, trying to get you to think a little. Can I come inside or what?"

"Sure." She gestured for him to go in, and then she led the way back to the living room. While she sat down on her plush couch, he chose the loveseat.

"Look," she said, "I'm not the one who makes up these rules. I'm just a fictional character."

"Fine." He stretched out, crossing his legs, indicating that he wasn't going anywhere anytime soon. Which was just as well, because they had to figure this problem out. He was supposed to be her hero.

"So the rule is the hero has to be perfect in every way?" he asked.

She gave a nod. "Pretty much, yeah."

"No exceptions?"

KAndre thought about it for a while. "Well, scars are usually okay. But only if they're from doing something heroic. So, no falling off your bike when you were ten."

He threw out his arms and looked down at himself. "So this isn't going to work?"

"Nope." KAndre gazed up at the ceiling and raised her voice. "Make him look like he could be on the cover of GQ and a Hawt!Rawk!Gawd! singing about a punk Baby Jesus, while being a total mensch, please!"

There was a zap and a whoosh, and suddenly she sat across from a guy who could be Clay Aiken's twin. Tall, athletic (sort of), chiseled features, and not an ounce of excess fat on him. He wore black, dressy pants and a blue sport shirt that was open at the collar. In short, he was sexy as hell.

And then it happened, what she'd been waiting for: Lust shot through her like liquid heat in her veins. This man she wanted. Badly.

"Hey! Neat!" he exclaimed as he looked down at himself, patting his face, his chest, his abs, and clearly liking what he found.

Then he frowned at her. "But what about you? You're gorgeous. Aren't you supposed to be chubbier? You know, 'real women have curves' and all that."

KAndre wished she had a mirror so that she could describe herself for the readers. Not that she didn't already know what she looked like. Long, smooth, chestnut hair (she left the blond wig in the bedroom); a heart-shaped face with brown eyes, full lips, and high cheekbones; a thin (HA!) and fit (double HA!) body that was still curvaceous in the right places.

In short, she was nothing special.

"Nah," she said. "I don't really have any idea how beautiful I am. I actually think I'm pretty plain. So that makes it okay." (Ok, this is clearly not me, but roll with it.)

"Right. That makes sense." His eyebrows creased as he added, "I think."

For a long while, they just stared at each other. He was so hot, the definition of sexy, and the air between them crackled with forced sexual tension.

Suddenly, he jumped to his feet. "So, what do we do now?"

"Wait for the author to come up with a plot, I guess." She stood up as well. Should she..? Well, why not? They had nothing better to do.

"Hey," she said, trying to sound casual, "in the meantime, we could practice having sex. Or you could do a concert for me."

"Now you're talking." He flashed a wicked grin and started toward her.

"Okay, there's just one thing," she said as he reached for her. "I'm a concert virgin."

His arm fell again. He gave her a confused look. "Why?"

KAndre thought about it for a while. "You know, I'm not really sure."

He sighed, exasperated. "Well, do you at least get to come [to the concert]?"

She perked up. "Of course! In fact, I'll have multiple orgasms."

That just seemed to confuse him even more. "I don't really understand any of these rules," he grumbled.

"That's okay," she said with a laugh. "I don't think anyone does. But as long as you're hot, it'll work just fine."

Clay smirked. "You know, I like the fact that you're hot, too."

Blushing, she couldn't help but point out, "Yeah, but the author would make you think I was hot no matter what."

"Oh." His face fell. "Right."

She stepped up and patted him on the arm. "Try not to ponder it too much."

"Good idea." And with that, he swept her up into his arms and carried her to the bedroom where they had the most amazing sex [concert] of their lives.

The author threw a couple of contrived internal conflicts at them as well as one monstrously big misunderstanding plus an evil and lecherous--but ultimately incompetent--villain. But love conquers all, and in the end, they got married and had half a dozen babies that grew up to be just as beautiful and worthy of a happily ever after as their parents.

[Ansamcw]

Play...not sure what you are talking about...is this the poster that is for sale???

also not sure what RCA promo....

oh BTW...I heard from ldyJ that her clack is from mezzanine and shows the whole stage...YAY!!!!

oh yeah couchie posted about that already...

[playbiller]

never mind, someone posted the poster on CV and I copied it.

Now I thinkhe had somethingto drink before this picture, you know, to relax him, but we all have different filters.

[Ansamcw]

BWAH KAndre!!!! thats just perfect!!!or imperfect...if that is what you prefer... :cryingwlaughter:

[Clayzorback]

couchie and Ansamcw, see this is part of what makes fan policing wrong. Things get misunderstood and interpreted wrong. I absolutetly was not criticizing how this board is run. In fact if I've said it once I've said it a hundred times. I love this board and how it is run. I love that I find like minded smart people here who speak there mind and then move on. No doubt in my mind that the regular members here, myself included, can't see or take care of those who come here with an agenda. My comment about it being infiltrated was made because I am concerned that the like minded fans I found here will become the minority, and the things I have come to love about this board will change.

Yes Ivy, I know you are a member of that board. I don't think the admins here will ever put in place a form to fill out, or make anyone take a test, to see if they are acceptable to be here. That is one of the nice things I like about this board. You will note, however, that that board is the only one that is not listed on their main page too. That is the other great thing I love about this board. You won't have to worry about me pestering you. I know how to scroll.

[aikim]

Wow! Heavy discussion today. Raises hand...another member of the Postitive Police checking in...I was pretty shocked when that term was applied to me...I do tend to have a pretty optomistic approach to life and my fandom in general, but that doesn't mean that Clay has not said or done things I disagree with, but I just don't feel the need to post every thought on the board...much rather dish about things on the phone with a friend.

I just prefer the common sense approach to all things Clay which is why I appreciate this board so much...very intelligent ladies, we have here.

Group think...well, I think that was pretty obvious during the whole ATDW debacle when it seemed like if you didn't hate RCA or Clive don't even bother posting...that was a very hard time for me on the boards because I thought there was way too much over-reaction and I do think there was an agenda by certains boards to get everyone to think the same way. I really hate being manipulated, especially when it was so obvious.

I figure Clay is a smart man, he knows what he is doing and he doesn't need me giving him career advice...I am just here for the fun, to enjoy him and support him.

Okie doke, enough of that...everyone going to South Bend have a great time; wish I was going too,'

Merrillville seems like a very long way off.

If people can wait that long; I would be happy to pick up some merchandise.

Kim

[Couch Tomato]

He stuck out his hand, his face lit up in a boyish smile. "Clay Aiken."

"You're kidding," she blurted out. What was going on? Why would a name like that be wasted on a secondary character?

bwah..this cracked me up

I'm also a member of the pollyanna brigade or been accused of it but I have no desire to shut up everybody else and don't mind other opinions and sometimes get more annoyed at the attempts to stamp out all disagreement. However, I don't want to be in a toxic place where everyday day is a chore to read through.

And I'll honestly say that trying to combat negativity on the net about Clay is futile and when I follow some of my google alerts and then read the comments with gang jumping of Clay fans in places that don't concern them, I feel it does way more harm than good. Case in point - a gay website discussing the whole church thing. Most were on Clay's side until Clay fans showed up with the truth and the link to a certain website for more truth. Next thing you know there was JP pronouncing his truth. I think it's a joke and a bit too much. If that is the purpouse of the thread, good luck to you. I do think Clay will suffer more in the long run and expose people to all sorts of things they were probably not aware of in the first place. And that's just outsiders. To do it to other boards I also think is wrong. I have no problem speaking my mind about things but I'm not going to another board to muddy up the convo in an inorganic way. I'd rather just enjoy my own fandom.

[KAndre]

Yes, but there's that preemptive strike thing of which I am not fond...

Somehow, I think the above sentence is really bad English...

[cindilu2]

Since it's soul-baring day on FCA, I'll add my two cents. It's not much fun to be on the other side of the coin either. To be called an 'angel-winger' (with the requisite sneer) or Mary Sunshine, simply because you don't choose to post critiques of Clay, and/or have the temerity to say you don't enjoy reading them and/or disagree with them. Hyperbole isn't fair, when used in either direction. It isn't all or nothing. The 'Mary Sunshine' brush isn't any more pleasing to be painted with than the 'bad fan' brush. In fact, it feels rather surreal.

ETA: Ugh, couchie. Yet another reason I turned off google alerts a lonnnnnnng time ago. I honestly can't understand the reasoning that shit like that (traveling the net to 'defend' Clay) could be good for him in any way. None so blind as those who will not see.

[merryclay]

Clazor---No broad brushes please. Ivy-- I do know where you're coming from. Clazor, we are all individuals, not carbon copies. I know you believe that because I've seen you express that type of sentiment We've had different fan experiences and have made different friends. Chexxxy is my friend and I post on her board. It doesn't relate to my board experience here, and if you can show me one place where I was disrespectful of anyone, you need to let me know. Clazor, I'm sure you have a friend or two I couldn't relate to. You might even belong to a board or two I couldn't relate to. That's just human nature. I don't fight with people or argue much. I here for Clay and I was accepted on this board and I hope I've brought something to the table. I certainly would never intentionally hurt anyone. My friends have nothing to do with my membership here. It is who I am and my behavior and it's sad that I have to explain that to you. I don't want to fight or explain my life. I'm just like others. A screen name on the internet trying to support and encourage Clay Aiken. No devious agenda. Just a love for Clay and the fandom. I've been in the fandom since the beginning and if you can find anyone that says I'm scary, crazy, bad or anything on that order, you bring it here and show it to me. Inclusion. Where have I heard that word before? I'm fine with you expressing your opinion and I've followed suit and expressed mine; hopefully in a respectful manner. I hope we can put this subject to rest.

ETA- By the way, the reason I joined this board is because I heard it was fun and everyone had a good time.

[liney23]

KAndre....

Bravo, but why did you change Clay's name to Chase part way thru??? Is that the plagerized part? Sorry, I'm still :lmaosmiley-1:

I LOVE this board! Everyone is free to express any opinion and discuss it (baring disrespect) and what I like the most is that no one belabors the point over and over and over. I don't mind reading any opinion once... some make me think about why they think that way. Just don't spend 25 posts trying to persuade anyone to have the same opinion. State it and go on.

I mostly lurked in a thread that was for discussing Clay's CD at the OFC. I left when I got tired of all the posts over and over refuting anything said that didn't agree with the RCA is out to ruin Clay or else they are just incompetent car. Not fun!

Here's a pretty, Ansa...

I love that Clay Aiken guy!

[Couch Tomato]

merryclay I do think you post was respectful and not to pick on you but I've heard this a few times lately but sometimes I think inclusion gets thrown around a bit too much and the Princess Bride popped into my head - Inconceivable. I do not think it means what you think it means.

It's like racism. The word is so diluted now because it's used in situations where it doesn't belong. If I heard the term race card one more time I think I will scream.

I know that is Clay's thing and a good model to follow in life but it doesn't apply to everything in life.

ahem..I second the call for more pic..he looks really yummy...but alas..he also looks 16 again. hee

[cindilu2]

Somebody (I'm sorry I can't recall who) in the last day or two asked for a screencap of the last frame of Gibby's Jingle Bells Medley vid... I don't think it's been done yet so here you go!

[Clayzorback]

I'm sorry but I have no respect for anyone who is a minion of Chexxxy and supports the things she does. I have made no bones about that. That is just me, however. Not trying to tell anyone else who to like or have for a friend. You don't have to explain anything to me merryclay. You don't post the same here as you do at the other board. That is true. I happen to think it is sad that some fans can not see that what they are doing is wrong, and as couchie stated above, hurts Clay. It is not helping Clay when any fan personally talks to John Paulass on the phone or tries to protect Clay from the entire internet.

As far as that goes it isn't their job to determine that some fan is a stalker either. Did anyone find out if it was Clay's people passing around a picture or was that from a certain well meaning group?

Now I need to fry some liver for my husband. Yuck. I appreciate being able to speak my mind. Sorry if I got out of line couchie. I apologize for raining on the eeeeeeeee'ing. I happen to love many things Clay does. I post far more positive things than negative things. However once you post that you don't like something you are labeled negative and therefore certain fans can never seem to find the positive posts you make anymore. You are on the list. I have seen this happen to many innocent true Clay loving fans.

Ahhhh the trashing of ATDW was inexcusable. The most hateful disrespectful thing I have witnessed in the fandom. That and the album thread ruining the expectations for the fans. The disrespect shown for Clay's management and record label was just OTT as is so much in the fandom. Hee

[Ansamcw]

AHHHHH liney...thanks!!!

now isn't that more fun!

seriously...as far as I'm concerned...the conversation has been serious but you all are posting in a mature and respectful way. I know some emotions may be high right now but I am glad we haven't needed to bring out any colorful ink to edit.

so post your thoughts...then move on...

eta: Clayzor I do love fried liver....

I am glad that a lot of the members are from different boards because to me..y'all have a clean slate. So no labeling with me.