# 9 He's a man of a 1000 faces and all of them are great to look at.

[jmh123]

ETA: I just read this as part of a post over at the CH.

Follow that with Roger apparently telling some of the fans in LA during pre-sales of ATDWs that Clay was "going down."

I had never heard this bit of fiction information before. Has anyone else? I mean, it makes sense to me that an RCA/Clay's publicist would tell the fan on the street that one of his clients is "going down".

Lots of sense.

I can imagine Roger saying almost anything in anger to somebody or another who pissed him off, given that he probably had been getting hate mail and whatever other nasty kind of communications since February. We all know that the things that get posted on the boards regarding Clay's "enemies" also get said to the "enemies" themselves, and the hate for Roger on the OFC had been huge for months and months. There's no telling what someone might have said to him in person. Who knows what the context was for whatever he said? I sure am not going to jump to believe something based on gossip and rumor about anyone--not Clay, and not Roger. Not even Clive. Sorry poddies.

I've always wanted a reason to use this emoticon.

Edited May 14, 2007 by jmh123

[jmh123]

No one said he was happy - but then we went into the album with a bunch of fans whirled into anger over - OH MY GOD!! - an album with covers on it - that really helped the buzz angry fans - does wonders for stocking. Don't even get me started on the fans talking to people about - well.... Clay didn't want to do this album, but you should buy it - yeah, great little sales helpers.

WORD! If the fans condemn an album loud and long, to industry professionals, media, to friends and on the net, no one is going to want to buy it. Talk about negative buzz. Sheesh. Doesn't matter that they thought they were "helping". Pisses me off. :angry22:

[Couch Tomato]

Ok let's play. We're Team Clay for a minute. Remembering who your client is, how do you get men and young people to believe it is ok to say out loud that you are a fan of Clay Aiken. I think the belief that Clay can't reach those important demographics played a big part in the decision to make a covers album. No big fight, No big hate on for Clay. Just simple business logic. I don't understand the need to make what happened a thing of personal disregard and hatred. And to think Clive would get into a pissing contest with Clay is really a joke. Clive could easily crush Clay like a bug without spending a dime. The success of the JBT, seeing his audience as primiarily women first, and then women of a certain age second, really, they took the easy way out. And I think probably believing that because of his voice his album would be even bigger than Rod's.

It's easy to say, well I'd give him a HBO special and book him on every show and pay payola for a radio hit and he'll be accepted. If it were that easy then everybody would be a star. There are people who go from radio darlings to relative failures on their next album. I mean Norah Jones... did she ever have a second album? What has become of her? Clay doesn't play the games by dating starlets and being seen at all the hot spots and courting tabloids. Hell, he even stays away from industry shindigs - perhaps because of his crowds issue. And then Clay continues to just be himself without regard for how other people take him. He giggles. He sits crazy. He wears stuff that makes you shake your head. .He likes uncool stuff like Christmas concerts, pageants, Andy WIlliams and Mr. Rogers. He's an original. That's the reality of the situation.

Personally I feel Clay will need help with any sort of breakthrough or some sort of lucky unexpected break. A duet with a radio darling, a small movie or television role, a fun commercial -- something along those lines to break into the male/teen demo.. I would love him to really get that talk show because I think it would allow some people to see him in a different light. I believe he'll continue to have a good career without catering to those groups. What do you do? Do you just strengthen the groups that love Clay or do you try to reach those groups. Anyway, just some musing for a Sunday night. Any thoughts?

ETA: I also wonder what Clive and others thought of the songs CLay come up with for his album. His own fan base ripped the songs to shreds, especially ATD and JY. But even TRD wasn't really universally accepted. I absolutely adored it. I think people did love Back For More. A lot of people liked to say that Clay didn't showcase his best songs. I don't believe that. So if his own fans weren't high on the songs he premiered, why do they think Clive should have been. Maybe Clay will one day write LTS part 2 and we'll get the complete story.

[playbiller]

OK - let's say I am a Clay fan - no big stretch there - Let's say I am an older Clay fan - why in the world do I need Clay to be a rock star - what if Clay has no interest in that? WHy do I need him to appeal to a different demogrphic? As long as he makes music for me and has concerts I go to - why do I need to make him the biggest bestest star ever? Why do I need him to become Elvis?

I can tell you good reasons for him not to become Elvis -

first he would really never be able to get out and walk around again,

Second he would sell out concerts too fast and whine I would never get a good seat - heck hom many fans won't sit if a place if they don't get a good seat - who do they think will sit so far away?

Third - there is nothing as good as a steady seller - i am not going to post it again, but Tony Bennett has few platinum records (I think Clay has more already) and still gets respect and is amusing.

Finally - of the super stardom fades a bit many of the haters will slowly wander away - Clay was too hot too soon, I think that contributed to several problems - at first he never slept and just did what he was told, then who knows - he must have been going through some world turned upside down thinking

I think of how lonely some people are and then how wise Clay was to move back home where he knows people. Since the instigator for the discussion was Kelly, I think how lonely she must be if she ended up dating her opening act once and a musician writing with her (probably assigned by Clive) - dating people you work with always seemed icky to me, although I did it once and lived to regret it, but we are still friends and I don't write vengence songs about him, despite a bad end..Being famous is lonely and that story about the night Janis Joplin died is heartbreaking - she was going to have a threesome with two friends and neither showed so she was alone in a hotel room - and if you ever saw her Dick Cavette interview - she was such a lonely person even in a crowd. I am so happy Clay is avoiding that and getting his own life, making friends with everything he does and filling his life with purpose. I can never see him coming to an unhappy end. He seems so grounded - and certainly knows how it feels to be humbled.

I just feel sad that so many of his defender fans never consider of the harm that they are probably doing before they write the angry letters or the rude posts about his coworkers.

ETA - I do admit that sometimes I am so tempted to go to the archives and look up what some people have said about some of the songs - songs that are now such wonderful things were indeed being torn apart by his fans. And, yes, we do know that there are people that read fan boards for the labels.

Edited May 14, 2007 by playbiller

[Couch Tomato]

Oh I definitely agree with you Play. I just want Clay to keep making music forever and I want him to be enjoy what he does. I guess I'm just tired of hearing that Clive has something personal against Clay so he did this to him purpously and used Roger and everybody else close to him to do it. The music industry has formulas and it's a copy cat industry. You really don't even need any grand conspiracies to understand why they went the covers route with Clay. I simply thought they were catering to who they believed his demographic to be. I think not being about to do exactly what you want is more the norm than any sort of special Clay treatment.

[luckiest1]

I can tell you good reasons for him not to become Elvis -

first he would really never be able to get out and walk around again,

Second he would sell out concerts too fast and whine I would never get a good seat - heck hom many fans won't sit if a place if they don't get a good seat - who do they think will sit so far away?

Third - there is nothing as good as a steady seller - i am not going to post it again, but Tony Bennett has vew platinum records (I think Clay has more already) and still gets respect and is amusing.

ITA with this, and really, I don't need Clay to become Elvis because for me, he already is. Who cares what anyone else thinks?

I just feel sad that so many of his defender fans never consider of the harm that they are probably doing before they write the angry letters or the rude posts about his coworkers.

Exactly. I opened the CH and the first thing was a post calling Roger a bastard. I'm sorry, but to me, that's just wrong, based on hearsay. Same with all the posts calling Clive horrible names. I don't know either man, and I don't have any love for them, but I don't go around calling strangers "bastard". How anyone thinks that might possibly help Clay is beyond me. Even if they are both bastards in RL.

So, someone give me a shout when the tide has turned again and it is safe to go out and play. I think I'll just hang around here until then.

:pod:

Edited May 14, 2007 by luckiest1

[roseviolet]

Good Morning!

I've added new songs to Rose Radio. Be sure to listen in today to hear this week's selections which include tracks by Bucky Covington, Creedence Clearwater Revival, Drew Young, Kimberley Locke, Sting, Tears for Fears, and Grace Potter & the Nocturnals. On Tuesday you can read more about this week's selections on the Rose Radio blog.

:me0:

[Clayzorback]

No one said he was happy - but then we went into the album with a bunch of fans whirled into anger over - OH MY GOD!! - an album with covers on it - that really helped the buzz angry fans - does wonders for stocking. Don't even get me started on the fans talking to people about - well.... Clay didn't want to do this album, but you should buy it - yeah, great little sales helpers.

WORD! If the fans condemn an album loud and long, to industry professionals, media, to friends and on the net, no one is going to want to buy it. Talk about negative buzz. Sheesh. Doesn't matter that they thought they were "helping". Pisses me off. :angry22:

Hell yes & AMEN to that. Way to go fans on helping Clay sell ATDW. Just trash the damn thing on his OFC forever. That will help sell a million. EXCEPT NOT................RCA & Clive didn't ruin ATDW, his fans did. They are his own worst enemy.

I just spent an hour reading and I just have to shake my head at the pompousness of some people. You want to talk about EGOS and being power hungry? I don't know how some of these so called experts get their heads through a doorway.

You can't argue or talk logic with people who have egos as big as the state Texas, who knows more than anyone else, must always be right, and has to have every post dripping with bragging about something.

In addition to the intelligent members we have here, I suggest reading tagalong's post if you want to read something sensible. I also enjoyed djs11's post.

luckiest1 I could not believe when I read that Roger was called a bastard. To top that off, I couldn't believe the gall of some people telling RCA marketing people on the phone that they were doing a lousy job of marketing ATDW. Accusing Handelman of being in on some conspiracy to not stock Clay's cd was bad enough. Fans really need to stay out of Clay's business. He is not going to hire any of his fans and honestly, I haven't seen one yet that is qualified to tell Clay, his label, Clive, or anyone on Clay's team how they should do their job.

[luckiest1]

Way to go fans on helping Clay sell ATDW. Just trash the damn thing on his OFC forever. That will help sell a million. EXCEPT NOT................RCA & Clive didn't ruin ATDW, his fans did. They are his own worst enemy.

And that's the part that I think a lot of fans don't realize....we don't know how it would have done if the fans hadn't written it off the way they did.

You can't argue or talk logic with people who have egos as big as the state Texas, who knows more than anyone else, must always be right, and has to have every post dripping with bragging about something.

Well, you can argue with them, but unfortunately you risk being modded for it. There seem to be some unwritten rules about who you can and can't disagree with.

Bitter? Who, me?

Edited May 14, 2007 by luckiest1

[muskifest]

Okay, will someone PLEASE tell me why in the WORLD any fan of Clay Aiken would have a problem hearing that....

Clay was "going down

My God, I dream of this very thing incessantly!

[Couch Tomato]

Muski, you have yoru priorities right.

[ldyjocelyn]

I can imagine Roger saying almost anything in anger to somebody or another who pissed him off,

I can also imagine Roger having a bitingly sarcastic sense of humor...just as I think Clay has as well. Know what I mean? He COULD have said exactly what has been reported, but without the whole context (including body language and tone of voice) I really can't judge. And even then, some people have a hard time discerning sarcasm. What I see here is just "cherry picking," in order to make Roger look bad, and justify personal feelings for RCA against Clay. JMO.

I've always wanted a reason to use this emoticon.

I almost used that one last night as well, and said the same thing.

No one said he was happy - but then we went into the album with a bunch of fans whirled into anger over - OH MY GOD!! - an album with covers on it - that really helped the buzz angry fans - does wonders for stocking. Don't even get me started on the fans talking to people about - well.... Clay didn't want to do this album, but you should buy it - yeah, great little sales helpers.

WORD! If the fans condemn an album loud and long, to industry professionals, media, to friends and on the net, no one is going to want to buy it. Talk about negative buzz. Sheesh. Doesn't matter that they thought they were "helping". Pisses me off. :angry22:

I honestly didn't experience this phenomenon of people writing things as what play put down...but then, I try to avoid things that just seem extremely odd to me. *g*

IMO, it all boils down to this: Clay did not make the album that many fans wanted him to. When they finally got a chance to listen to the album, their feelings about what they thought was the process of getting this album made totally colored their feelings about the album itself. I keep going back to to Clay's blog from over a year ago -- "open your mind and prepare for something different." It seems that many worked on the last part of this statement, but the "open your mind" part just flew past. And yes, I know that many people don't like this album after listening to it -- that's their prerogative. I just get he feeling, though, that more than a few didn't even TRY to listen to it, or again, their feelings about the process clouded everything. I feel pity for those people, more than anything else.

I don't understand the need to make what happened a thing of personal disregard and hatred.

Oh come on, it's easy -- Clay needs our protection. Pure and simple. ONLY NOT. As much as I love Clay, I also know that he's a grown man who can make his own decisions and deal with the ramifications later. I cannot worry about him constantly, especially when it comes to his career.

It's easy to say, well I'd give him a HBO special and book him on every show and pay payola for a radio hit and he'll be accepted. If it were that easy then everybody would be a star.

Amen, Sister couchie.

There are people who go from radio darlings to relative failures on their next album. I mean Norah Jones... did she ever have a second album? What has become of her?

I remember seeing at 60 Minutes piece on Norah a few months ago, so I looked her up. She actually has had 3 albums released. According to this website, all three of her albums have gone multi-platinum. Thing is, the first one broke incredibly huge -- 20 million. Therefore, when her third one sold ONLY double platinum, she was almost considered a failure.

I think in this case, it's all about the perspective again. The fans search for EVERYTHING about Clay Aiken -- good, bad, or indifferent.

And then Clay continues to just be himself without regard for how other people take him. He giggles. He sits crazy. He wears stuff that makes you shake your head. .He likes uncool stuff like Christmas concerts, pageants, Andy WIlliams and Mr. Rogers. He's an original. That's the reality of the situation.

I personally think you've got Clay pegged with this paragraph. LOVE IT.

Personally I feel Clay will need help with any sort of breakthrough or some sort of lucky unexpected break. A duet with a radio darling, a small movie or television role, a fun commercial -- something along those lines to break into the male/teen demo.. I would love him to really get that talk show because I think it would allow some people to see him in a different light. I believe he'll continue to have a good career without catering to those groups.

Totally agree with all of this. I'm still one to believe that TV helps him sell albums as much as anything. And as much as I love his voice, love having his albums, I also believe that many in this nation feel he is a TV personality first and foremost, because of where he came. I mean, really -- how many other recording artists get regular mentions in TV Guide? Clay sure does. Who knows where he wants to go?

I just feel sad that so many of his defender fans never consider of the harm that they are probably doing before they write the angry letters or the rude posts about his coworkers.

Exactly. I opened the CH and the first thing was a post calling Roger a bastard. I'm sorry, but to me, that's just wrong, based on hearsay. Same with all the posts calling Clive horrible names. I don't know either man, and I don't have any love for them, but I don't go around calling strangers "bastard". How anyone thinks that might possibly help Clay is beyond me. Even if they are both bastards in RL.

I'm gonna use luckiest1 here as an example. (Please don't take it personally, I really don't mean it...) I meet her, and she says something that I don't particularly agree with. Does that give me the right to call her a b***h on a PUBLIC INTERNET BOARD? Yes, I'm a librarian, and free speech is near and dear to my heart....but gosh sakes, there's also things called TACT and RESPECT. It's fine to disagree with things, but I just don't see the point in name calling. I really don't think it makes people feel any better; in fact, I think it makes things worse frequently.

Unfortunately, I think it's a society wide problem, this lack of respect that the internet has wrought, IMO. And I know I'm probably being very hypocritical here -- some may see as what I've just written as lack of respect to other fans. It's very circular, isn't it?

All I know -- I love Clay. I'm just not his mother. Or his publicist. Or his gardener. I'm just a fan.

muski -- :F_05BL17blowkiss: I needed that comment. Hee.

[luckiest1]

*sniff* ldyjocelyn thinks I'm a bitch. *sniff* Edited May 14, 2007 by luckiest1

[atinal]

Good morning FCA, I hope everyone had an enjoyable Mother's Day.

LdyJ, I'm glad to hear your mom is doing well.

Ah, the fans and RCA/Clive/Roger discussions are back. When I first arrived on the Clay fan boards it was such a exciting and mostly pleasant place to be. I spent a lot of time nodding my head enthusiastically in agreement. Now, if I wonder around much, I'm shaking my head in disbelief instead.

It would make an interesting study in human behavior, if you were into that kind of thing. Clay's fans are a double edged sword. Sure there are some great ones out there (like most of US) Ha, but man, there are some OTT, know it all, resentful, bitter, folks masquerading as fans, and I'm starting to feel like they have done him as much if not more harm than many of the obstacles Clay has faced in the past couple of years.

In the early days, people openly posted about writing letters to Clive/RCA about MOAM, why didn't they let his voice shine through, there was too much instumentation, the songs were over produced, why didn't they get better songs for him and the criticisms went on and on. Yet the sales were great, so that was something to celebrate. Writing letters became the MO of many Clay fans, they had to come to his defense, they had to put the latest ASSHAT in his place, I wrote a couple of them myself, but some of these people can't let anything go.

You'll see many of these people post things like "why does it always have to be about the fans? And you know what, I guess I'd rather see some OTT fan excited and professing to be his greatest fan, than to be contsantly hit over the head with criticism of his CD, his management, his publicist, his producer, the head of his record company and HIM. I think the fans started to canabalize in this fandom early on and bit by bit. The angelwingers vs the smutters, the fan wars with differend Idols, the rock star fan wannabes vs the ballad boy fan wannabes, the young fans vs the old fans the list could go on and on.

Maybe they made mistakes with this CD, it happens, but I happen to love it. Maybe the promotion wasn't as good as it could have been, but I'd bet there are hundreds of well known artists who would have loved to have gotten what Clay had. Maybe his publicist isn't the best, but coming off the year Clay had just been through hitting the right mark on publicity was probably difficult. In the end, I can agree that maybe they could have done better by Clay, but I can't see the upside of death wishes on Clive Davis and the trashing of anyone else that had anything to do with ATDW.

Early on, I wanted Clay to be the next Elvis, I wanted that rocket ship to the stars for him, I wanted the naysayers to have to sit up and take notice. Now, I want him to be happy, and healthy. I want him to be able to live his life and I want him to be around to entertain me "his way" for a long long time.

[ldyjocelyn]

*sniff* ldyjocelyn thinks I'm a bitch. *sniff*

And next time you see me, you're allowed to do this to me if you want:

*g*

Early on, I wanted Clay to be the next Elvis, I wanted that rocket ship to the stars for him, I wanted the naysayers to have to sit up and take notice. Now, I want him to be happy, and healthy. I want him to be able to live his life and I want him to be around to entertain me "his way" for a long long time.

atinal, I wuv you.

I certainly have dreams for Clay, and I know that just a few years ago, I wanted the moon and stars for him (along with that Grammy, Emmy, Oscar, the Cy Young Award, and the Nobel Peace Prize). But after a while...realism hits. OK, so I think he still could win the Nobel Peace Prize. *g* My point is that rather than hoping things will happen for Clay, I'm trying to make things happen for ME. My life is happy right now, and that's because I believe that a combination of God and me made that happen. Clay just enriched my life a bit. (I think he added Vitamin Ooooooo).

[luckiest1]

Okay, I know I'm out of the loop, but I did speed read the last few pages of the board last night, and I don't remember seeing this posted. If it was, I apologize:

http://www.usatoday.com/life/music/news/20...c-preview_N.htm

Click on the arrow before the word "Tours" and you get Clay's page with this blurb:

The former American Idol runner-up supports his latest album, A Thousand Different Ways. Route: Starts July 4 in Dallas and ends Aug. 19 in Orlando. Cost: $23 - $73

So I wonder if some new PR went out and these are finalized dates now?

Edited May 14, 2007 by luckiest1

[playbiller]

Well, on balance I do know some very nice people who are upset and I know enough about the people who talked to Roger one night and if they are acurate (remember they listen with fan ears), Roger was not very nice. Here is the thing - when I used to work with sales people to get my consulting contracts - well, some of them were on drugs, some gifted clients with drugs, some drank too much, some made obscene phone calls to their co-workers (my friends - know it is true) and one had a fight with a client and left a gift for him on a Friday afternoon when he knew the man would be gone and askedthe secratary to put it on his desk so he could find it on Monday - it was a gift boxed dead fish - all of his consultants were give an hour to leave the office on Monday - heh. I worked with them because they were good sales people, I was not always comfortables with them, but they did get me good contracts.

The point is sales people , and publicists are just glorified public sales people, are human and all kinds, the nicest of people don't do well in this field, you need a hardness of rejection. These huaman people (like many posters) are human and not perfect and screw up or say the wrong thing. The issue here is that the fans are so invasive in Clay's personal and business life, that these people are put under additioanl pressure - I have seen people run up to Roager at a concert intermission to ask him questions - it is so important to some people to get answers to bring back to the boards - to be in the know. While I think it is fine to say hello, it is important in perspective to realize that not everyone Clay works with is a friend (does not mean they are an enemy) and to realize that RCA had already been trashed on the boards because of the "covers". - Like you might be the nice fan, but there are definitely a few OTT.

So few people can put it in the perspective of how you would feel if someone called their boss to complain about how they were treating you - Oddly enough, I think Clay has just decided he can't control his fans - telling them he is his own man (not a boy) and not a parrot for RCA. - Actually, I had a friend in her 30's who was a vice president in our company and her parents dropped by and then told off the president about treating their little girl better! She was dying, but luckily the man had a sense of humor and teased her about it mercilessly for the next few years. It was a small company, the only one he wholy owned and ran as a hobby, kind of like making a family of workers, everyone person had unique talents, pretty much everyone had flaws that were dealt with - No one was allowed to yell at me - that was my flaw, if I got mad, I would leave the office and go for a walk until I flet better, but there was an alcoholic, over eater, panic disorder, and control freaks and other things - like a socialogical study group (and two suicides, out of 40 people, in the 4 years while I was there).

Ok, enough of this- it is a beautiful day and I have to get started living my life - that means phone calls to contractors!!!

Nope better to think of this and this

[playbiller]

ANd to take on my fan personality - there were some interviews in a paper and this quote about the AI6 finale

Melinda and Jordin would make an excellent finale; too close to call and reminiscent of Clay Aiken and Ruben Studdard.

Cracked me up - and it would be true if Clay and Ruben were boring. Only not

This person changed who should stay and go into what should stay and go

WHAT SHOULD STAY: The Muppet they used to portray Barry Gibb was pretty lifelike.

WHAT SHOULD GO: I'm sorry to see Randy Jackson's alter ego go – he seemed to be having fun wearing a wig and performing as “LaKisha.”

[luckiest1]

You know, I sometimes wonder if the poddies truly want to push fans out of the fandom. Because seriously, they just suck all the joy out of it for me. Try to say that on a poddie board, though, and they get all defensive. Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmm.

I have been toying with just leaving the online fandom for a while now. So it's great to have a place like this to come and chat and make sure you aren't missing anything. It's also great to have friends to email with, and share the joy that Clay brings me. Because why continue to be a fan of something if all it does it drag you down?

Maybe I just have the I Hate Monday blahs or something. It's also a cold, grey, rainy day here. Time to break out the iPod I think.

[Divayenta]

Gaz, all is forgiven, I loves you too. Had a tough day yesterday- but I did get to see Bo whose voice is still a force of Nature. Hair below the waist too. When I finally get to meet you, we'll talk about Oprah. I see two sides to her.

Couch, I have to word your long post about who Clay is . I sometimes sit there and catch myself thinking, " Oh no, this is gonna turn off the men!" And I have to stop that. He is who he is, I love him as much as I "know" him, and the rest is in the hands of God. He seems to be having a helluva good time. Jimmy seems to just be tickled to death by him.

Haven't been over at CH in a couple of days...will take a peek.

[Claygasm]

Maybe Roger wasn't so nice because some fans descended on him like locust demanding to know why evil Clive would force a superstar like Clay to record an album of blechy covers and then not even give it suitable pre-release publicity. Maybe after dealing nicely with some of these "experts" he had enough and blew his top.

Or maybe someone just heard him wrong and took off with the remark.

Someone said earlier that Clay's fans were his own worst enemy. Boy do I agree with this. Last week someone on one of the tour threads at the OFC (it was Philly) was bitching and moaning about how "bad" her ticket was after buying a $300 subscription (it was NOT a bad seat, by the way. I would be thrilled with it. But it wasn't front row center, I guess, so that made it bad....). She said she called the box office to bitch complain and the woman at the box office told her she and everyone there will be glad when this concert is over and they don't have to deal with Clay's fans anymore. And this is in a city that is KNOWN for its rude fans! Imagine how rude the Clay fans had to have been to have them make a remark like that!

And that isn't the only instance of something like that being reported from a venue. Yup, Clay's fans will sure help him a lot. How many of these venues will consider having him back when fans have been pushy and rude? He isn't selling the place out, so why would they want him back? He may be the nicest guy in the world, but his fans sure aren't.

And I know its only a small percentage of the fans, but they are so vocal there appear to be more than there are.

I gingerly went over to read a bit of what's going on and quickly thought two things before I left. One is, I felt like I was in a damn time warp! Same people spouting off the same crap AS FACT and refusing to acknowledge that is wasn't fact. And secondly, that I admire the brave posters who try to fight the windmills and seem all too often to pay dearly for it.

I wonder how they will spin the reports that he will be touring in support of ATDW? RCA has nothing to do with his tours, so if he HATES the album as much as they claim, tell me, why would he go on tour and sing mostly songs from it?? It will be very interesting to read their reactions to the set list!

I also wonder what will happen if this next album is mostly ballads, or songs with heavy orchestral arrangements or anything but pop/rock Top 40 radio type songs and if Clay tells us over and over how this album was his vision and how he had tons of creative control over it and how much he loves it and is proud of it. I guess we'll be told that is all spin and he really HATES that album too.

But what if that album isn't with RCA (I know it will be, but what if....)? How will they spin it then? What if he leaves RCA and signs with David Foster - his new savior - and the result is anything but pop/rock Top 40 radio type songs? Will any of them admit that maybe Clay's musical vision is not what "they" think it is and is in fact closer to the sound on ATDW than teh sound of say, BFM? And what if that album on the new label doesn't sell 10 million copies or doesn't get radio play. Will David Foster then take on the role as the Evil King out to get Clay?

Why do some believe the world is out to get Clay? I have news for them. Most people don't give a crap enough about Clay to care one way or the other! To RCA/Clive, Clay is a cog in their corporate machine. Clive very well may think the world of Clay personally. That doesn't mean he can't miscalculate what Clay's fanbase wants. Maybe what Clay and Jaymes brought to Clive in December (you know, the mythical completed kick-ass new album...) was crap. Maybe the best song on it was BFM. Now, I enjoyed BFM in concert. It was fun to stand there pumping your fist in the air. But as a song, it wasn't anything special and hardly showcased his voice! What if Clive heard the songs - some of which were covers as Clay himself said - and said there was nothing special about it. What if Clive asked Clay which songs were his favorites and Clay mentioned mostly the covers? What if that was what spurred the mostly covers idea?

And then what if, after the crap that dominated the first half of last year, it was decided that this album would be promoted with less fanfare? What if that was Clay's decision, since he knew he would be faced with all the talk about the crap? What if the feeling was - in both camps - that the material Clay recorded in '05 wasn't good enough and there wasn't time to start from scratch looking for new and better material and still get an album out in '06 so they went with the covers idea knowing they would get another album out within a year and a half or two years? Maybe it was even decided that if Clay did the cover album Clive wanted (and thought would make some quick money and get Clay's name out there in relation to something other than scandal) Clay would get to do the album he wanted next time.

I don't know if any of those scenarios are true but to me they are more plausible than RCA/Clive HATES Clay and is out to get him and "bring him down"!

Last time I looked the job description of being a fan said nothing about telling people how to market him, telling the distributors how to do their job, telling his publicist how to do his job, telling the head of his label how to do his job and telling everyone within ear shot that that Clay hated the album but they should buy it anyway. I thought the "job" of a fan was to enjoy and support the artist and have fun!

Did I miss a memo or something????

[luckiest1]

I wonder how they will spin the reports that he will be touring in support of ATDW? RCA has nothing to do with his tours, so if he HATES the album as much as they claim, tell me, why would he go on tour and sing mostly songs from it?? It will be very interesting to read their reactions to the set list!

They just plain don't.believe.it. No matter how many times those words "in support" are published. Articles are ignored that otherwise would be celebrated. People who previously "guessed" that the tour would be in support of new material have now said their original "guesses" were really their "hopes/dreams" and others are spinning their words. I have seen more revisionist history lately than I've ever witnessed in my life.

If the set list is ATDW heavy (and I expect it will be) then they will say that RCA mandated this tour. I've already seen it written, no matter that prior to this the same people went on and on about how what Clay has sung on tour in the past (upbeat covers, etc) were indicative of how he preferred upbeat music to ballads, since RCA had no input on his tour set lists.

It's enough to make your head spin. Or your blood pressure rise.

[Kareneh]

Okay, will someone PLEASE tell me why in the WORLD any fan of Clay Aiken would have a problem hearing that....

Clay was "going down

My God, I dream of this very thing incessantly!

Me, too, and maybe someday people will realize that it isn't so easy to get your knickers off when they're in a knot.

[muskifest]

She said she called the box office to bitch complain and the woman at the box office told her she and everyone there will be glad when this concert is over and they don't have to deal with Clay's fans anymore.

Fuck. This is the very thing that makes me shudder and cower under a blanket, wishing it all would just STOP. How embarrassing.

Last time I looked the job description of being a fan said nothing about telling people how to market him, telling the distributors how to do their job, telling his publicist how to do his job, telling the head of his label how to do his job and telling everyone within ear shot that that Clay hated the album but they should buy it anyway. I thought the "job" of a fan was to enjoy and support the artist and have fun!

Amen, sister!

God. It's the damned self righteousness that makes me want to scream. Who the hell ARE these people who feel so entitled to KNOW what's going on in the non-public sector of Clay's life---both professional and personal? Why do they automatically feel it is their DUE to be kept apprised of the machinations going on behind the scenes and then feel obligated to critique the success or failure of them to the point of painting Clay as a hapless pawn?

Clay Aiken is anything but hapless and he is nobody's pawn---before or after Clive Davis and RCA. That's MY personal assessment of the man and has been for the entire time I've 'known' him. These fans who repeatedly point fingers at "bastards" and idiots "ruining" Clay's career are doing Clay no favors. Their egos and need to feel empowered as the reason for his success, however, could very well have a hand in making it more difficult for Clay to achieve his goals, IMO.

I much prefer to go to my hometown of Smutville and wallow in the fantasies that ensued upon reading about Clay going down.

Have a great day, all! :F_05BL17blowkiss:

[muskifest]

it isn't so easy to get your knickers off when they're in a knot.

Bwah! And PLEASE, KarenEh?---make sure you and I get a chance to meet again at one or more of the concerts so that I can totally humiliate you with a big, sloppy kiss! :TourExcite:

:large-smiley-003:

BWAH!

Edited May 14, 2007 by muskifest