# 10 It isn't so easy to get your knickers off when they're in a knot.

[rcknrllmom]

Just an FYI...the youtube video is now set to private as this was something that the family did not want put on the internet ...somehow it got through a few hands and of course ended up on youtube...I am frankly surprised it took so long...

Edited June 6, 2007 by rcknrllmom

[luckiest1]

OMG...........Peanut butter and butter together. You know, I had never heard of this until I married my husband 23 years ago. It is a staple for him. Every morning he has 2 slices of toast, first buttered heavily, then with Peanut Butter on top and a glass of milk. No sugar or cinnamon sugar, though. One day I got brave and tried it. I love it. Unfortunately, this last year, I can hardly eat PB anymore. For some reason it gives me heartburn. Go figure?

Peanut butter with butter toast is my favourite. But I can't eat it this year because it's fattening. LOL.

I absolutely believe in free speech and I absolutely agree that Clay needs constructive honest feedback from his fans. I believe the best way to do that is to do it respectfully, state your opinion on something once, and then move on.

Clayzorback, this is a great post. It proves to me that all is not necessarily lost in this fandom, because behaviors can and do change. Thanks for sharing your experiences.

[cindilu2]

I do remember that I was one of the ones very vocally against Jaymes coming on the boards and posting with the fans. IMHO it is very unprofessional for Jaymes, Roger, Clay's friends, or Clay's family to share any information about anything to do with Clay's business.

Not when they do it with Clay's blessing, as I believe Jaymes must have had when she posted about JNaT.

My position as a fan has always been that Clay has critics lined up around the block, more than willing to tell him what's wrong with everything he does. He has family and friends to keep him grounded. I don't believe for a moment he's perfect (nor do I want or need him to be), I just don't think he needs me for that.

[luckiest1]

ITA, cindlilu2, that Jaymes posted with Clay's blessing.

As we have seen in the past, a little bit of knowledge in the hands of the fans can be a very dangerous thing. The angst it creates can be devastating to Clay, and I offer the constant Album threads, warning of covers, as a prime example. I also firmly believe that the constant angst that the same few fans keep creating is why you will see safe generic blogs from Clay from now on.

Ah, but a lot of what caused the angst was not knowledge, but rumour and supposed insider information. I think angst builds most when fans speculate on something and build it up to a certain point, and then when the truth doesn't fit the rumour, it explodes. I do agree that Clay doesn't give much away in his blogs, but I think that's because, even though he's made a few references to not reading things into his words, people continue to do so. I will never understand why people can't just take what he says at face value. To me, it's a pretty common courtesy.

[rcknrllmom]

champion!!! I see you....say hello! been missing you......

p.s. this is a great board, but dont tell em I said so...lol

:F_05BL17blowkiss:

[Claygasm]

OK I give...Everybody else is watching the RIches..guess I'll be a lemming too heee.

Searching up and down my remote control I found a new network called Chiller. Now normally I'd never watch anything on this channel but they're showing American Gothic...eeeeeeeeee. I loved that show.

Oh couchie - I LOVED American Gothic too! I was so disappointed when it was canceled!

I give again. Peanut butter and butter...ok on the list for CG and Ansa when they spend the night.

Please no! I hatess peanut butter! I can't even stand the smell! Neither my brother or I ever liked it but my mother always kept some on hand when our friends came over and all she had to do was open the jar and I went running.

I get more the feeling that Clay is constantly growing in his art. Is he holding himself back? Maybe. Probably didn't help that people who are suppose to be his fans went way beyond constructive criticism and stomped all over his efforts on the script for JNT. Personally, I thought he did great with it and accomplished his goal of showcasing the songs in an interesting and fun way. JMHO

WORD WORD WORD! One of my biggest disappointments with this fandom (not Clay) was the JNT05. He reached out with his creativity and a good number of people smacked him down for it.

The problem with putting your creative efforts out there is that some will like what you do and some won't. If you're going to do it, you have to be willing to hear the bad with the good. We as fans are not obligated to love everything he does. While I applauded his effort, the JNT05 to me was bad. IMO, it was like watching a mediocre high school production, except the singing was a lot better.

Did some fans go over the top with their criticism? Sure, just like some went over the top with their praise! Happens all the time. I think its sort of like in some sports where they throw out the lowest and highest scores and then average the rest together. That's what I think any artist should do with criticism of their work - don't get too high from the gushing praise and don't get too low from the worst comments. Just look at what those in the middle have to say and take from it what you will.

I truly do not believe anything fans - or critics for that matter - say about Clay's projects will discourage him from engaging in the creative process again. However, I do hope he learns what works and what doesn't.

Has this been brought over yet? Get your tissues ready before you watch it.

edited to take out you tube link...this has been set to private, the family didn't want it distributed on the net....ansa

Looks to be the reenactment filmed the day after the concert. I hope someone can rip it before it disappears from YouTube.

Ok, I am going to admit something here few know. I was at that concert where that kid sang with him on TITN and I HATED it! I kept thinking if this were the only concert I was going to and he ruined that song like that I would have been pissed. He could have brought that kid on stage at any other time, perhaps instead of the random person, and sang with him. He didn't have to do it the way he did. If that makes me a bad person, so be it. I feel for the kid and his family and I applaud Clay's huge heart, but I don't think he should have taken a song like that, one that so many looked forward to hearing him sing, and sing with the kid. JMO and all. And I know I wasn't alone in thinking that at the time.

Phew! Feels good to get that off my chest! They say confession is good for the soul!

So, one month from today some of us will be doing Clay in Houston!!!!! :Tour3:

[rcknrllmom]

Me! I cant wait to do Clay in Houston and again the next night in Tulsa...I am ready baby!

[roseviolet]

ITA, cindlilu2, that Jaymes posted with Clay's blessing.

As we have seen in the past, a little bit of knowledge in the hands of the fans can be a very dangerous thing. The angst it creates can be devastating to Clay, and I offer the constant Album threads, warning of covers, as a prime example. I also firmly believe that the constant angst that the same few fans keep creating is why you will see safe generic blogs from Clay from now on.

Ah, but a lot of what caused the angst was not knowledge, but rumour and supposed insider information. I think angst builds most when fans speculate on something and build it up to a certain point, and then when the truth doesn't fit the rumour, it explodes. I do agree that Clay doesn't give much away in his blogs, but I think that's because, even though he's made a few references to not reading things into his words, people continue to do so. I will never understand why people can't just take what he says at face value. To me, it's a pretty common courtesy.

I agree. Jaymes did post with Clay's blessing. Fans continue to this day to beg for behind the scene and insider type tidbits. Everytime efforts have been made to do so have been cut off by some fan's reactions. I know that some are quite jealous of boards of other artists like Josh Groban. I believe that David Foster has shared and communicated with fans there. I would of loved it if Jaymes had been made to feel welcome at Clay own fan board. I'm sure that she wouldn't of talked about anything without Clay's approval. I agree that the tendency of a few to over react and to speculate and spread wild rumors over even the most innocent of comments by Clay have led to him posting these type of blogs. If you want people to trust you with personal information, you have to show them respect. There are a few who are relentless with their disrespect.

I get more the feeling that Clay is constantly growing in his art. Is he holding himself back? Maybe. Probably didn't help that people who are suppose to be his fans went way beyond constructive criticism and stomped all over his efforts on the script for JNT. Personally, I thought he did great with it and accomplished his goal of showcasing the songs in an interesting and fun way. JMHO

WORD WORD WORD! One of my biggest disappointments with this fandom (not Clay) was the JNT05. He reached out with his creativity and a good number of people smacked him down for it.

The problem with putting your creative efforts out there is that some will like what you do and some won't. If you're going to do it, you have to be willing to hear the bad with the good. We as fans are not obligated to love everything he does. While I applauded his effort, the JNT05 to me was bad. IMO, it was like watching a mediocre high school production, except the singing was a lot better.

Did some fans go over the top with their criticism? Sure, just like some went over the top with their praise! Happens all the time. I think its sort of like in some sports where they throw out the lowest and highest scores and then average the rest together. That's what I think any artist should do with criticism of their work - don't get too high from the gushing praise and don't get too low from the worst comments. Just look at what those in the middle have to say and take from it what you will.

I truly do not believe anything fans - or critics for that matter - say about Clay's projects will discourage him from engaging in the creative process again. However, I do hope he learns what works and what doesn't.

I did say they went way beyond constructive criticism. Some of the comments were disrespectful, hateful and relentless. That, in my opinion, was uncalled for. I'm all for honest opinions being expressed as I'm sure Clay is. What happened went way beyond that.

Ok, I am going to admit something here few know. I was at that concert where that kid sang with him on TITN and I HATED it! I kept thinking if this were the only concert I was going to and he ruined that song like that I would have been pissed. He could have brought that kid on stage at any other time, perhaps instead of the random person, and sang with him. He didn't have to do it the way he did. If that makes me a bad person, so be it. I feel for the kid and his family and I applaud Clay's huge heart, but I don't think he should have taken a song like that, one that so many looked forward to hearing him sing, and sing with the kid. JMO and all. And I know I wasn't alone in thinking that at the time.

Phew! Feels good to get that off my chest! They say confession is good for the soul!

Clay was granting a wish. Personally, I appreciate what Clay did for John and don't think it ruined the song at all. It was a unique and poignant performance.

[luckiest1]

The problem with putting your creative efforts out there is that some will like what you do and some won't. If you're going to do it, you have to be willing to hear the bad with the good. We as fans are not obligated to love everything he does. While I applauded his effort, the JNT05 to me was bad. IMO, it was like watching a mediocre high school production, except the singing was a lot better.

No one is insinuating that fans are obligated to like everything he does. But the trashing that went on (and still goes on occasionally, when the topic comes up) was brutal. And not only on the boards. Fans attended concerts and then loudly bad mouthed the production at intermission, to other fans and to the not.just.us in attendance. They got on cellstreams and expressed their disappointment, ruining the experience for the people listening at home who would have loved to be there in their place. They bought up the front rows for concerts they detested, but they sure as hell didn't offer to trade with anyone farther back. Believe me, I asked.

Generic plea to the masses: For the love of God, if you don't like something, then just don't attend! Walk away. I swear, if that shit happens again on this tour, I am not going to responsible for my actions.

I truly do not believe anything fans - or critics for that matter - say about Clay's projects will discourage him from engaging in the creative process again. However, I do hope he learns what works and what doesn't.

I'd say that anyone who is human is affected in some way by the criticism or accolades that their work brings. How much anyone is affected depends on the person. I can only hope Clay is strong enough to ignore the OTT criticism, and take the OTT praise with a grain of salt. I'd love to believe that most of the stuff that gets posted on the boards (including his official fan board) doesn't affect him. But I don't.

Ok, I am going to admit something here few know. I was at that concert where that kid sang with him on TITN and I HATED it! I kept thinking if this were the only concert I was going to and he ruined that song like that I would have been pissed. He could have brought that kid on stage at any other time, perhaps instead of the random person, and sang with him. He didn't have to do it the way he did.

No, he didn't. I think he went with the kid's wishes, and I applaud him for it. It was a rare and magical moment and I would have loved to be there. I always wished there was better quality clack of it, so I'm thrilled that this video finally surfaced. I'm sorry if the family feels it is an invasion of privacy, but I'm so happy to finally have it!

[cindilu2]

Clay was granting a wish. Personally, I appreciate what Clay did for John and don't think it ruined the song at all. It was a unique and poignant performance.

I agree. I was also there in Detroit IT, when a well-known fan marched up to the mother of the girl who danced WDC with Clay and thanked her for 'ruining the show'. I was standing right beside her, so I know it happened. Not a proud moment in the fandom for me.

Things like that (WDC, Little John, dancing with the wheelchair lady in the first JNT) are the moments that make the memories for me. They add so much to the texture of my fandom. I wouldn't trade them for any perfectly performed song.

[Couch Tomato]

Things like that (WDC, Little John, dancing with the wheelchair lady in the first JNT) are the moments that make the memories for me. They add so much to the texture of my fandom. I wouldn't trade them for any perfectly performed song.

It's hard for me to think ..what if this was my only show terms...cuz well it's never only one for me. So yeah it's the things that are different that I love. Started way back at Wilkes Barre AI2 tour when I woke up to MUCH dismay and anger cuz Clay ruined Invisible by laughing his way through it. That was CLay's new sexy song and there were all kinds of talk about fan behavior and when they should throw things. NOT DURING THAT SONG. Then I downloaded it and it remains my favorite Invisible from that tour. He is just so tickled as the panties go flying.

At the San Jose IT, he did the WDC dance with Quiana. This is the one that my family went to so ok I wanted them to see him dance it with Ang but me I'm cracking up at QUiana's reaction.

LOVED Wolftrap although people were very up-SET.

I really wonder if not connected fans who have never seen the show walk away upset by their experience. Or does the clack set expectations. Because I don't think one out of the ordinary thing with one song would ruin a concert for them.

If the family set that video to public accidently then I feel for them because it has now been disseminated on the net. They will never ever be able to retrieve it.

[KAndre]

I admit, I'm not the most sentimental either, and if it were my favorite song, and my one shot at hearing it live - I might be annoyed as well. I wouldn't say anything to the lucky participants because I also know if I got my wish fulfilled by going up and putting my no talent self up next to Clay, the wants of an audience member wouldn't have crossed my mind, and even if they did, I still would have gone up. I guess I just accept that sometimes magical moments just can't be magical for everybody.

[jamar1700]

*wades carefully into the conversation*

eta : which of course has moved on around me in the time it took to compose this. Oh well.

Clazor ... awesome post. I'd have read it twice!

I especially like how you can talk about how you've changed as a fan. Good for you!

I've gone into serious lurker mode on the boards, for a variety of reasons, but mostly because it stopped being fun for me. For me it's about joy and fun and has been from the start. I don't get the angst and the worry BUT that's me. That is who I am in RL.

Case in point...I was at Wal-Mart the other day and the checker girly asked me if I wanted something in a bag or not and I said what I always say...

Me ... Oh I don't care .... whatever's easier for you...

CG... Oh well you know I have to ask cuz people get real mad and yell and stuff.

Me... Well, I think life's too damn short to get mad at the grocery store.

Which earned me a big smile from checker girly. Which, in turn, made my day.

I've always looked at the message boards as a good study in group dynamics. I find that aspect truly fascinating. I also think that I communicate much better in my work life, for being on the boards. I see so many negative nelly's there and realize that I don't have to be that way too. I can just keep smiling and doing my job and laughing. Every once in awhile I even catch them smiling too.

I also learned that when push comes to shove...I can be a bit passive aggressive myself.

Who knew?

Last summer, I joined a Major League Baseball board for my longtime favorite team and it really is hysterically similar. Also Son#1 is a DMB fan and has been on their boards, like, forever. We've traded war stories over the years and it's pretty much the same stuff. Except the hair. He says they never discuss Dave's hair. AT ALL! Can you imagine? Hee. We do on the baseball board. There was just a team head shaving episode and it generated mucho conversation amongst the crew. Sorta like a Clay hair discussion times 40. Good times.

My position as a fan has always been that Clay has critics lined up around the block, more than willing to tell him what's wrong with everything he does. He has family and friends to keep him grounded. I don't believe for a moment he's perfect (nor do I want or need him to be), I just don't think he needs me for that.

Amen.

----

EEEEE! Did someone say champion was here? :F_05BL17blowkiss:

sorry that was a really random rambling sort of first post on main. Bear with me, I'm out of practice.

Edited June 6, 2007 by jamar1700

[luckiest1]

I really wonder if not connected fans who have never seen the show walk away upset by their experience. Or does the clack set expectations. Because I don't think one out of the ordinary thing with one song would ruin a concert for them.

Sorry, I'm being a posthooch today. But work is boring.

This is a really good observation. I do think that sometimes, clack sets up (IMO false) expectations. And then if Clay doesn't "live up" to a past performance, some people can be disappointed. However, if they had nothing to expect.....there'd be nothing to be disappointed about. Not that I'm complaining about clack. Far from it. I am a clack whore. I d/l every bit I can get my hands on.

I'm in the same boat as you, couchie, that it is rarely my one and only show. I think the only tour I didn't attend multiple stops on was the JNT04 (and as it was, I was damn lucky I even got the the one, driving through a blizzard). I live for the little, quirky things that make each show different. I love unexpected surprises, goof ups, anything like that. People who ask me "but aren't you going to the same show night after night?" are always met with "it's never the same show". Because each one is unique, and to me, that's a good thing. But I realize not everyone feels this way.

Welcome, jamar1700! Don't be shy.

[Claygasm]

I admit, I'm not the most sentimental either, and if it were my favorite song, and my one shot at hearing it live - I might be annoyed as well. I wouldn't say anything to the lucky participants because I also know if I got my wish fulfilled by going up and putting my no talent self up next to Clay, the wants of an audience member wouldn't have crossed my mind, and even if they did, I still would have gone up. I guess I just accept that sometimes magical moments just can't be magical for everybody.

Oh I would NEVER say anything to any member of the family or, God-forbid, Clay! And I would never say Clay doesn't have the right to do things like that. Not my place. But I don't have to like it and I just wasn't awwwwwing with everyone else.

I also have never liked any of the audience participation moments. Wasn't awwwwing over Brianna either. Guess I'm just a selfish bitch. So be it. When I go see Clay, I want to see Clay - not members of the audience on stage no matter how cute, how adorable or how heart-wrenching their backstory may be.

I guess Clay's heart is just bigger than mine and even though I may not always like it, I also hope he always follows his heart.

Edited June 6, 2007 by Claygasm

[ldyjocelyn]

I really wonder if not connected fans who have never seen the show walk away upset by their experience. Or does the clack set expectations. Because I don't think one out of the ordinary thing with one song would ruin a concert for them.

My guess? At least half would say "what a sweet gesture." The other half would be confused, and maybe upset. But I think your point about the availability of clack is a darn good one. IMO (and I frequently get taken to task for this viewpoint) that too much clack can be a bad thing. There are constant comparisons between what he did at this show and what he did at that show. (Example: the round box lid vs. the square box lid. I was rolling my eyes about that for over a week when that hit.) And soon, it feels to me as if someone can't just enjoy the moment but instead has to make comparisons.

Honestly, if the John Martin show had been my one and only concert -- I would have probably cried my eyes out and been extremely happy. But then, I'm a sap.

I also think -- well, what if the Waukegan 2006 Christmas show was the only one I had attended? Would I have let the "note" ruin my experience? Probably not. As it was, my only show for that tour was the next night at Merrillville, and I'm thrilled that I was able to see that magical moment (IMO) live and in person.

As KAndre said....one person's magical moment is another's WTF? And I see that luckiest1 types faster than I do.

jamar, great first post on the main thread. And I too feel that my life on the message boards, in a totally strange way, have helped me see some things way differently in my work life. But my question -- I though Dave Matthew's was going bald? He really still has hair? *g*

Just 'cause....

[muskifest]

Interesting. CG, I know you feel better now that you've unloaded the AC TITN John thing! That was indeed a frustrating evening for us, wasn't it? Standing in line forever, watching others get preferential treatment in the so-called 'stand by' line, seeing un-lovely fan attitudes as the fan with the fattest purses (regardless where they stood in the line) grabbed the high-rollers to get their tickets, then finally allowed to buy a ticket only to get in and realize that a good hunk of the concert had already been delivered without us.

It was my first time at a concert sitting at a table in a casino. The energy was so very different from every other Clay concert I'd seen; I felt conspicuous whenever I did more than politely clap. Strange. I remember that after all the WORK we'd done to just get into the concert---and the expense---I was admittedly disappointed when John joined Clay for TITN. The entire concert experience had been odd up to that point and then, for a song that was usually a climactic point, the focus was shifted and the energy divided again.

Loved the concept and story behind the inclusion of John---didn't appreciate it so much at the time. Seeing this video of the following day, I can't help but think that had Clay done this ONLY---brought John in after the actual concert like this to grant a wish rather than replacing an integral element of the concert experience for hundreds (thousands?) of fans with it---John and the rest of the concert goers might have come away feeling satisfied.

I do remember walking out of that concert with a very disconcerting feeling. And yep, I know that this stance is not a popular one. I didn't cry while watching TITN that night and get all schmoopie. In fact, if I remember correctly, I actually sat down and observed the crowd more than the stage. Certainly, most of the others at my table---casino people for the most part, not Clay fans---had stayed seated throughout the whole concert anyway.

Just a very odd night. Now I loved CLay pulling the lady out of her wheelchair at a concert of the first JNT to dance with her (I did get schmoopie over that.)---and the times he's danced or sung with people from the audience, etc. Very cool. And he did those things AND still gave the audience all the songs and performances.

Oh, and the Detroit dancing fiasco? I put any blame for the awkwardness of THAT moment squarely on the shoulders of Clay and Angela--not the girl or her mother. Not so cool.

ETA: more good stuff posted while I composed this, so now I see this and I say, WORD:

I admit, I'm not the most sentimental either, and if it were my favorite song, and my one shot at hearing it live - I might be annoyed as well. I wouldn't say anything to the lucky participants because I also know if I got my wish fulfilled by going up and putting my no talent self up next to Clay, the wants of an audience member wouldn't have crossed my mind, and even if they did, I still would have gone up. I guess I just accept that sometimes magical moments just can't be magical for everybody.

Yep. :F_05BL17blowkiss: Me, too, 'coss Edited June 6, 2007 by muskifest

[Couch Tomato]

I admit, I'm not the most sentimental either, and if it were my favorite song, and my one shot at hearing it live - I might be annoyed as well. I wouldn't say anything to the lucky participants because I also know if I got my wish fulfilled by going up and putting my no talent self up next to Clay, the wants of an audience member wouldn't have crossed my mind, and even if they did, I still would have gone up. I guess I just accept that sometimes magical moments just can't be magical for everybody.

Yep, smart woman.

Also meant to comment on the JNT criticism. I loved the show (and yes I admit I'm easy) but I agree with roseviolet that there's criticism and then there's the unrelenting kind that just seemed OTT.There's nothing wrong with not liking something Clay does. I haven't liked everything although admittedly I'd have to think long and hard. The Xmas special is on my rack collecting dust. I don't think I've even opened it. I think it's just the usual thing though...battle fatigue just being on the boards when things aren't happy and all good. After awhile everything feels like a battle, the digs that go on for the entire run of things. Why restate your same opinion after every single concert, ones you didn't even attend. There were many angry people. Many had paid for plane tickets and hotels and made plans with others and they were committed to a boatload of shows they hated.

I worry for the summer tour just a tad. Knowing Clay he could conceivably get up there and sing a show full of standards. Expect the unexpected.

Jamar, good point about realizing you could be passive agressive yourself. I would be remiss if I acted like it was other people - and I had nothing to do with the problems. that may have kept the conversation going. There was a time after LTS came out that I realized I was treating my board like I was at TWoP thus I was part of the problem I really tried hard to reign that in. After ATDW came out and I saw the reaction I purposely withdrew because I know me and I would have taken my passive agressive tactics, honed on the battle field against the hatahs and just made things worse. I figured it was time to re evaluate my fandom and find a better way.

Edited cuz what the hell is a battle fiend?

[jamar1700]

I though Dave Matthew's was going bald? He really still has hair? *g*

I think that's why they don't talk about it...

eta... hey I never thought about being passive aggressive until I was told I was by "someone" in the Clayfandom. But the more I looked at the way I react to stuff I realize that I really can be. Especially at work. Of course, now that I see it, I try to make it work for me instead of against me.

Edited June 6, 2007 by jamar1700

[Couch Tomato]

I also have never liked any of the audience participation moments. Wasn't awwwwing over Brianna either. Guess I'm just a selfish bitch. So be it. When I go see Clay, I want to see Clay - not members of the audience on stage no matter how cute, how adorable or how heart-wrenching their backstory may be.

I guess Clay's heart is just bigger than mine and even though I may not always like it, I also hope he always follows his heart.

Heee..I admit some of these worked better than others but the ones that worked really well made the attempts worth it to me....like Charlotte dancer - all the stump the bands, the Xmas show where he involved the audience - to me that is the magic of the clay show - unscripted. It's the unknown...the singing I expect to be great!

damn gotta go to work.

[cindilu2]

Sometimes I think the board rules breed passive/aggressive behaviour. I know I'm guilty of it at times, when what I'd really like to say is 'I think you're full of shit'. But I can't. :eusa_whistle: I think a goodly amount of 'snark' would be more aptly labled passive/aggressiveness.

Edited June 6, 2007 by cindilu2

[Claygasm]

Yup muski, that night in AC was mucho strange. The table where I sat the women were as interested in getting their drink orders in as they were in the concert. They were chatting and ordering their drinks and once in great while they actually watched the concert! I also remember people from the front getting up and leaving in the middle of the concert. That whole night was not one of my best Clay concert appearances for sure.

I remember hesitating for at least half a second when we found out he was going to the Borgata because of that experience. Talk about a polar opposite experience! Those 2 shows at the Borgata were two of my favorite Clay concerts ever!

ETA: Welcome Jamar!

Edited June 6, 2007 by Claygasm

[Ansamcw]

Jamar...great first post....I love your attitude. I also believe that we have the choice to be negative or positive and that being positive just helps with people's general attitude.

I also do believe that its good to be able to share some of the negative feelings when it does happen ....so that we can let it go. To me...ranting is good...wallowing not so much.

The problem on the boards...you are never alone in your opinions and feelings. At times when someone starts in with negative thoughts...other people that feel that way post too...so it would seem like the negative feelings are overwhelming. THEN the people with the opposite POV have a hard time posting cos they get a bit down when they see all these criticism...But really its just a handful of people posting one time and there just seem to be this pile up. So in the past I used to make sure that if I do have a different POV...I post about it. Not to tell the others they are wrong or even to convince others to feel like me...but to just have the other POV represented so there will be a balance.I'm really happy when I see people posting unpopular opinions or controversial topics cos it tells me they are feeling safe that their POV will be respected.

I think for me...the difference that happened with both JNT05 and ATDW...some people did not just express their opinions or criticism...I felt that they also started making fun of Clay or simply posting as if it was just taken for granted that both JNT05 and ATDW were mistakes. It was those kind of posts that really pissed me off. I do remember the first few cellcerts of JNT05...I was so disappointed because it truly colored the whole boards view of the show from the start.

ITA...not all special memories would be that for every fan. also agree with Detroit WDC...I think this was one time Clay and Angela tried something that just didn't work. These kind of things always happen with live shows. I still love the fact that Clay can be so spontaneous on stage that you always have to just have to expect the unexpected. Just learn to roll with the punches as they say...What does make me cringe when the fans try to create these special moments...or recreate something that happened before...it just ain't the same.

[Couch Tomato]

I remember hesitating for at least half a second when we found out he was going to the Borgata because of that experience. Talk about a polar opposite experience! Those 2 shows at the Borgata were two of my favorite Clay concerts ever!

MINE TOO!!

Vermont was strange from an audience stand point. Not until Clay's reaction to "Vermont is the greatest little city" did he finally seem to break the ice. The rest of the show was fantastic. People in Vermont wanted to sit. The ushers wanted to make sure we remained seated. Clay wanted us on our feet. Really really strange.

[keepingfaith]

rcknrllmom, I adore your montages and watched a couple of them this morning on YouTube. Catching up is always educational -- never more so than watching "Just Like Heaven" and realizing that Clay's sexy-fingers-playing-with-micstand thing is nothing new!!!! Oh, and Clay looks so hot in black & white! And "Beautiful" and "You Make Me So Very Happy" speak for themselves. Thank you for putting these together with such care and flair.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ5Y7HbxRMY