# 12 An Evening With His Royal Highness Fantasy Fodder

[PhillyluvsClay]

* Philly raises her hand*

What's a poddie?

*Takes notes*

[playbiller]

JMH obviously does not frequent the boards I did where ther angst was ramping up 6 months before the album dropped with green ink definitely one sided. Some fan favorites had decided that this album was going to suck and they they pushed thier ideas and how Clay was poor and helpless many months before the album dropped, months before there were many facts, ambiguous or not, not to mention the Roger hate ramping up, which did have some factual backing, and some made up (possibly misinterpreted) backing. On two specific boards I can think of, the mods edited you if you doubted that Clay was being screwed over by RCA. A decision has been made and that is that. No debate. All this when the EW article came out in the spring beforethe promotion, so that all the promotion was seen through those eyes and through eyes with built up expectations by other "insiders".

This is one reason why I dislike idolizing certain fans. Yes, some people know how they are weilding their power and try and do it judicially (K'Andre for example, just wants us to obey her and carry out her simple world domination plans) while others want to run the fandom the exact way they see it and whoa be it to you to cross them. A few leader fans like whipping people into a frenzy of sadness, and then those sad people come and post in their unhappiness invading all boards. Other leader fans are reasonable and try and calm the waters.

Ambiguousness may keep the argument going, but it did not start it.

I believe most people are in agreement about a lot of what may or may not be happening with minor differences of opinions, but there is a small but vocal minority that divides fans - they are not all worng, but they are not all right either. They don't discuss, they condemn.

PODDIE definition should be in the intro threads with rules as stuff - the things new members are supposed to read, but never do (like me), hee. I am sure soemone will print it again here.

here is a link to it

Edited July 24, 2007 by playbiller

[PhillyluvsClay]

Thank you Playbiller...

[jmh123]

JMH obviously does not frequent the boards I did where ther angst was ramping up 6 months before the album dropped with green ink definitely one sided. Some fan favorites had decided that this album was going to suck and they they pushed thier ideas and how Clay was poor and helpless many months before the album dropped, months before there were many facts, ambiguous or not, not to mention the Roger hate ramping up, which did have some factual backing, and some made up (possibly misinterpreted) backing. On two specific boards I can think of, the mods edited you if you doubted that Clay was being screwed over by RCA. A decision has been made and that is that. No debate. All this when the EW article came out in the spring beforethe promotion, so that all the promotion was seen through those eyes and through eyes with built up expectations by other "insiders".

You're right, I don't read all the boards you do, but I did read and post at the OFC for months during that time, so I know whereof you speak. What seemed different to me was the number of people, and especially the specific people, some of whom had been arguing the moderate view alongside of me at the OFC, who abruptly shifted to a different opinion (or so it seemed to me) when the album was released and didn't sell a huge number of copies. Hence the birth of the ambiguously received term Pod People.

Just a trip down memory lane--my first and fourth posts here at FCA:

Something else I see lately, is that fans who I've always considered knowlegeable and voices of reason, seem to be jumping on the RCA/Clive hate/ sales/promotion sucks bandwagon and that has a tendency to send some regular posters into a tail spin.

Looks like this place is still safe from the invasion of the Pod People. How refreshing to read sane posts!! Just wanted to say hello--I'll look around a bit and get my feet wet before I jump in.

Don't worry, we check the Pod People Filter® once a week with a stick - you're safe. Here, drink this kool-aid - you'll feel better!

Yes, I know I'm a bad girl - but Clay is hot!

BWAH!!!

Feh. The world doesn't revolve around Clay...it revolves around Clay's HAIR. What's wrong with you people?!??! Didn't you drink the kool-aid?

Clearly, the gold certification is part of RCA's dastardly plot. They've think Clay may be allergic to gold and that's why they paid for it!

And more BWAH!!!!

Why DO men have nipples anyway?

Hee.

Just wanted to kiss all you sane folks, goose muski, dance a little jig for the gold, and high-five playbiller. Just 'cuz.

*grabs YSRN and smooches her*

Once upon a time there was a movie, "Invasion of the Body Snatchers"--Donald Sutherland was in it--where people were being taken over by aliens, the Pod people. The people who were taken over looked like they always did, but suddenly you'd realize they'd been taken over, and then they'd point at you and screech because they realized you weren't one of them, and then they'd come and take you over too.

I moved recently, and was off the boards for a couple of weeks, and when I got back the Pod People had taken over almost everyone I know. Even some of my best RL Clay friends. Screech!!!

Paranoia strikes deep, indeed. Takes satisfying swig of koolaid. Grape/cherry - my favorite.

The Pod people took over the mods at one big, big board a long, long time ago--I don't read there enough to know who this person with the new sn is, but whatever. I just hope folks will start coming to their senses, and in the meantime, *sighs* with relief to find a safe place not to be paranoid or full of hatred and anger.

[ldyjocelyn]

Thanks for your thoughts on ambiguous evidence, artquest. I think we can all agree that there has been a lot of ambiguous evidence floating around the fanboards. I think if we all just concurred that no one really knows what went on, that it's all pure speculation, there would be a lot fewer battles on the boards.

I understand why some people believe Clay was screwed by RCA. I get the frustration, the worry, the anger. I see the need to blame the label for Clay's less than spectacular sales. Personally, I don't believe RCA completely comprehends Clay's talent and potential, and that ATDW was not handled as well as it could have been.

I just can't bring myself to buy the more extreme theories, i.e., that RCA is trying to ruin Clay, that Clay despises ATDW and is being forced to support the album.

Now, if people need to believe otherwise, fine. However, during the height of the discussions, I could not help but feel that taking a less hostile position was viewed as, well, almost disloyal. This may be purely my own sensitivities, but it seemed that if you weren't mad as hell, you were somehow, not on Clay's side. It's the only way I can explain the anger directed toward those who were not angry. And it's why I came here, where it was OK not to be angry all the time.

Speculation is part of all fandoms, and I don't expect that to change. I enjoy speculation, myself, and view it as a fun and harmless activity as long as it is recognized for what it is. I'd would just love to see more acknowledgement that evidence is often ambiguous, that it is open to interpretation, and that we rarely have definitive answers.

JennaZ, I was going to edit this down, but I couldn't. Everything in it rings so very true for me. As a matter of fact, most of your posts the past few days have made me nod my head in agreement (the "Clay sees himself as a product of TV" post comes immediately to mind).

I've honestly never been "mad as hell" for Clay. That probably sounds to some people that I "don't care enough" about Clay. That's not it at all. I truly do want the best for Clay -- always have, always will. The reason I've never really gotten mad for Clay is simply this -- he's a grown man. He chooses to conduct his life in the way he sees fit. And while I'm sure he probably has used some choice swear words over certain situations in the past few years while in private -- in the public forum, he's acted with grace for the most part IMO. I simply choose to follow his lead on all this.

Another part of this is that he's grown and learned from this past year or so. I know it hurts to watch when someone I care about is going through what I see as possible difficult situations -- and yet I can't help but think that he's come out of this stronger, more mature, smarter. I really feel that most people don't learn from their successes...but they truly do learn from their failures. (BTW, I'm not saying that ATDW is a "failure" -- not to me, anyway. Still lovin' that album. OK, so it could have sold more...but that's another topic....)

[artquest]

Oh, man, there's that pod people thing again.

Let me propose an expanded definition: Anyone with a closed mind, whether that person thinks everything is going great with Clay or everything is the result of a conspiracy between RCA and assorted villains, is a pod person. Of course this flies in the face of my endless post on the previous page that talks about how people of all kinds really deal with evidence, but if we want to be simpler, this definition works for me. The truth is that closed minds are almost always in the eye of the beholder.

[luckiest1]

The basis of my opinion is "we don't know a lot" and I stand by that today. The other major belief of mine is that it is "none of my business" - this is based on personal space definitions.

I just have to WORD both of these points. Goes for me too.

during the height of the discussions, I could not help but feel that taking a less hostile position was viewed as, well, almost disloyal. This may be purely my own sensitivities, but it seemed that if you weren't mad as hell, you were somehow, not on Clay's side. It's the only way I can explain the anger directed toward those who were not angry. And it's why I came here, where it was OK not to be angry all the time.

Wow, you really nailed the way I felt at the time, too. Sometimes I still feel it.

OK, only 30 more minutes and I can get out of here, drive home, and download more clack. It really is an addiction.

[ldyjocelyn]

Distractions ahead!!!!

And I love this one, not because of Clay, but because Q&A:

Back to...whatever it is we were talking about....

[KAndre]

Oh, man, there's that pod people thing again.

Let me propose an expanded definition: Anyone with a closed mind, whether that person thinks everything is going great with Clay or everything is the result of a conspiracy between RCA and assorted villains, is a pod person. Of course this flies in the face of my endless post on the previous page that talks about how people of all kinds really deal with evidence, but if we want to be simpler, this definition works for me. The truth is that closed minds are almost always in the eye of the beholder.

I would be fine with that - just need to add "beating you over the head repeatedly with said view". And a lack of appreciation of tiaras.

[artquest]

Oh, man, there's that pod people thing again.

Let me propose an expanded definition: Anyone with a closed mind, whether that person thinks everything is going great with Clay or everything is the result of a conspiracy between RCA and assorted villains, is a pod person. Of course this flies in the face of my endless post on the previous page that talks about how people of all kinds really deal with evidence, but if we want to be simpler, this definition works for me. The truth is that closed minds are almost always in the eye of the beholder.

I would be fine with that - just need to add "beating you over the head repeatedly with said view". And a lack of appreciation of tiaras.

Yeah, that, except I find myself incapable of any kind of coherent reply after looking at the JEANS! OMG, thank you ldyjocelyn and lynninnj.

[Couch Tomato]

Oh, man, there's that pod people thing again.

Let me propose an expanded definition: Anyone with a closed mind, whether that person thinks everything is going great with Clay or everything is the result of a conspiracy between RCA and assorted villains, is a pod person. Of course this flies in the face of my endless post on the previous page that talks about how people of all kinds really deal with evidence, but if we want to be simpler, this definition works for me. The truth is that closed minds are almost always in the eye of the beholder.

Fine, if anybody can show me a person that thinks eveything is fine with RCA I will die of shock. I can't think of a soul that thinks that way. And granted I don't actually surf around that much.

And no matter how many times I get that aimed at me (not you) I honestly know I have a million posts saved out there for posterity that say otherwise. I was particularly vocal before the album drop about the marketing and called Cori's contact on saying Clay was getting superstar treatment. I may have been told I didn't know what I was talking about. I've been pretty consistent on the marketing aspect. I've never bent the total other way to say he had NO Marketing which is just not correct IMO..

For me it isn't about an an opinion over RCA, the album, or even the less drastic conspiracy theories (the less drastic ones I acknowledge on the first line of our defintion may indeed be right or partially right). it was the bitter bitter atmosphere that wouldn't allow me to say I love Broken Wings or Here You Come Again. It was the 'I love ATDW" but..and then 3 paragraphs. It was suffocating me. I just felt so uncomfortable that I fled. It was espcially uncomfortable because the shift had me suddenly on entirely different planets with people I had pretty much been on the same page with my entire fandom. Unless you felt that way I think it is very difficult to understand so therefore gets turned into this very simplistic thing. I don't feel suffocated anymore but I'm not quite the same as I was a year ago.

[jmh123]

The basis of my opinion is "we don't know a lot" and I stand by that today. The other major belief of mine is that it is "none of my business" - this is based on personal space definitions.

Perfectly said!

Oh, man, there's that pod people thing again.

Let me propose an expanded definition: Anyone with a closed mind, whether that person thinks everything is going great with Clay or everything is the result of a conspiracy between RCA and assorted villains, is a pod person. Of course this flies in the face of my endless post on the previous page that talks about how people of all kinds really deal with evidence, but if we want to be simpler, this definition works for me. The truth is that closed minds are almost always in the eye of the beholder.

Perhaps I should have just quoted the last part of that old post. I came to the FCA because it was still OK to be happy, and, in fact, closed minded, if that meant to celebrate the wonder that is Clay Aiken, to enjoy his appearances and his album and forget about parsing what kind of evil might or might not have been done to him. Like couchie says in her explanation post, just because we don't lament the album all the time doesn't mean that we think everything is blissfully wonderful--but we just want to be happy and joyous and leave all the bitching and moaning behind. And yes, over time it's become more complicated than that, and there's nitpicking and claiming one comment or another is proof of one side or the other being right, and yes, there's plenty of closed-mindedness to go around, but just wanting to have fun and leave Clay's career decisions to Clay isn't always about being closed-minded.

Or what JennaZ says:

during the height of the discussions, I could not help but feel that taking a less hostile position was viewed as, well, almost disloyal. This may be purely my own sensitivities, but it seemed that if you weren't mad as hell, you were somehow, not on Clay's side. It's the only way I can explain the anger directed toward those who were not angry. And it's why I came here, where it was OK not to be angry all the time.

And just in case it isn't clear, I know you joke about being our resident poddie, and so forth, and we may not always agree, but I don't see you as closed-minded at all, and -- something that's less well understood, and the reason for the long quote instead of the short version -- poddie was never intended to be a term for "people we dislike" but, in the beginning, the exact opposite. Pod People were people I loved who seemed changed, and I didn't want to change in the way that they had. As it turned out, it brought some undeserved and some deserved anger down upon FCA, and I regret that. On the other hand, I don't regret being on a board where I can relax and enjoy my fandom.

And now I will STFU and contemplate said jeans.

[playbiller]

OK delete me if too political a statement

It is funny, but I believe that being middle of the road has been labeled an extreme position lately (Clay and RCa have issues ahat are none of my business), It is a lot like there are so few real liberals left today and the media has so many right wingers taht they are now calling middle of the roaders left wingers. If Richard Nixon was alive he would be one of the most left wing politicians out there.

[cindilu2]

Hey all! *waves* Sorry to jump into the middle real conversation will boring old concert stuff (especially when I'm pretty much incapable of an actual recap) but I did want to say hi to bottlecap and laughn. Sorry we didn't get to talk more/longer. I t-totally agree with you bottle, about MOAM being the heart and the highlight of the show for me. It was simply unbelievable. It will be a crime if it's lost to us. *bows at the altar of Clack*. But if it is, it will live forever in my heart. Incredible. I didn't think he could top Canandaigua. I was so very wrong.

I saw four concerts in the past six days, and each one could hardly be a more different experience from the last. Syracuse - my first - always a special thing. Canadaigua - Lover All Alone in the rain. 'nuff said. Chautauqua, my first experience from the very back row (by choice). Watching the crowds of NJU fall to the charm and talent of the Aiken was more than worth the nosebleed. And now Sterling Heights. Probably a one-time-only experience. I am forever grateful that I was there. I guess that's the one connecting, resounding feeling I have. The constant that links the four concerts. I am so, so, so very lucky. Thanks, Clay. You done good.

Edited July 24, 2007 by cindilu2

[Couch Tomato]

don't you dare apologize. That's why we're here...and don't forget to put that moam in the clack recommendation thread..I don't want to miss out on this version of the song.

[JennaZ]

I think the term "poddie" or "pod people" was, for the most part, meant to be a playful term. I have since learned that the term is highly offensive to some, including people I consider friends, so personally, I try not to use it anymore. However, please understand, it was born out of a time when many of us felt bruised and battered by our experiences on other boards, a small minority huddling together amidst the masses who were out for RCA blood.

The joy of the concerts and Clay's own statements seemed to have settled things a bit. I'm glad the concerts are going so well, and that we have the opportunity to do what most of us really want to do -- enjoy and appreciate the gift that he is.

I am especially delighted to hear that LAA is being received so well. Not only is it great that many of the not.just.us are able to hear this great song, but I'm hoping it gives Clay the confidence to do more songwriting.

Yes, I've always been one of those who took him at his word when he said he didn't write. Never bought the Josh Groban song rumor. This latest M&G statement about Diane Bubel only confirms it for me. However, I do think he has a great way with words. Some of the lyrics in LAA are quite haunting. My wish is that this new producer will find terrific melodies for him to work with, music that will connect with him and allow him to free his own creativity. It's not that I need him to write to be credible. I just think that he has a lot of potential that should be developed more fully.

[bottlecap]

I don't know - I think I may have ambiguous feelings about the fit of last night's low-riders. Perhaps I need to review some more of the available evidence about the appearance of the subject jeans...

Exhibit G, Part U, Section H:

[playbiller]

Heh, those are Britney style low riders - almost shows it all.

Even with all the great Clack , some people are still looking for stuff to angst over - the least slight. But there is a name for people who need to be stressed all the time, isn't there?

A lot of people who are insulted by the name poddie don't realize to haw very few people to whom it actually applies. I keep tellingmy sister she is not one, that she is actually of the majority mindset here - everything isn't perfect, but it is not our job to fix it. I feel like some form of the definition should be posted, because it really only belongs to a vocal few who I could probably count on fingers and toes. I really miss the happier side of a few people, I really used to love their posts and now I always have to scroll past because they make me so sad.

So, do you think someone snuck in Clay's closet and replaced some of his jeans while he was asleep?

Edited July 24, 2007 by playbiller

[bottlecap]

Via CAP121 at CV:

The Freedom Hill website has a link to the venue photographer's pictures from last night. A note: the page plays snippets of Clay music when you open it - it's a nice feature I think.

[jmh123]

More evidence to consider:

[Ansamcw]

Excellent conversation once again...I really like it when prof. artquest comes out to play.

I've been on catch up mode for a few days now. I end up just nodding so much with everyones post. thanks for saying everything I want to say.

the only thing I can add right now...is that we really have to remember that Clay and his life are not static. He changes and the situation changes so that we really have to be careful in taking things he says now and generalizing it to all context. For example...he said he feels that BFM is cheesy and does not fit the direction he is going. Now I don't think this means that he didn't like it ever. I think if he didn't like it he wouldn't sing it ...period. But it probably was not the favorite that most fans assumed it was.

He also indicates that he does not want to do another cover album...that does not mean he didn't want to do it last year. It may not be the concept he originally wanted...I can also see him not being happy to trash what they worked at ..and I can believe he probably was apprehensive about doing it...but from all he said about ATDW he eventually agreed and went along with the idea and he put so much of himself into the CD.

Now I can see that he does not want to repeat this process. he saw that doing covers really didn;t work too well with his cred and even with his sales and radio play...so why repeat it so two very different situation.

as to the other topics discussed...the poddies and what not...I will just piggyback on all JennaZ's posts. WORD!!! So many of you make so much sense!!!

EEEEEEEEEEEEE... can't wait for more clack from last night...Listen was soooooooogreat

[KAndre]

My, that Clay is cute and dang if Saturday's not a long time away!

I've been following Kelly's little brouhaha with interest - especially what it says about Clive - I vaguely remember those in the fandom asserting that Clay had to get his "side" about the evil that is Clive and the horror that was ATDW - in reading these articles, it strikes me that it would not have gone over particularly well. And it also interests me how much Kelly's "ageism" is being played up versus Clive's "experience"...

Considering how long "My December" has been out, will it make platinum? Was "Breakway" the exception to the rule for Kelly? Can we get Clay a Disney soundtrack?

[keepingfaith]

My personal opinion is that when a fan starts talking about the ghoulish, blood-dripping Clive, whom they blame for short-circuiting Clay's career by refusing to release the phantom album of Christian Contemporary rock songs that must have been called Imagining Clive Dying a Horrible and Painful Death and, further, they ridicule others who don't buy into this complete load of crap and, because even though many of them have called for a boycott to "teach Clive a lesson" they are nonetheless incensed when they can't find copies of ATDW to boycott at their local record stores, especially after writing "It's all Clive's fault" reviews and throwing them out on iTunes and Amazon, and, of course, carrying this sickening message to as many boards as possible in a vain and pathetic attempt to control FanThought, including calling ATDW a dismal failure and an embarrassment ... and when certain folks seem to fall prey to this crazy message out of fear that Clay's a victim of career sabotage and these people become so incredibly scared that Clay will be going out of their lives forever that they run screaming into the night clamoring for the head of Crypt-Keeper Clive ..... Thaaaaat's a Poddie.

My definition.

[Kareneh]

I don't know - I think I may have ambiguous feelings about the fit of last night's low-riders. Perhaps I need to review some more of the available evidence about the appearance of the subject jeans...

Exhibit G, Part U, Section H:

Mercy! What a cute little curvy bum. Just a nice perfectly rounded handful. Okay...two hands....even better. And how about that belt?

Keeping everything nicely locked and loaded. See also photo posted above ^^^^ by jmh123 for further evidence and to lessen any possible ambiguity.

Ultimately, this is why science works the way it does, trying to get past the logjam that can be caused by ambiguity.

Aw dang, artquest, here I thought it was caused by tight pants.....

This, I guess, comes from having a science degree that is 32 years old.

Edited July 24, 2007 by Karen Eh?

[Couch Tomato]

KANDRE - and Kelly has the beneift of the media loving her. Just imagine if Clay had pulled this stunt. It would not have been pretty.