#21: "Surprisingly, the ice did not melt."

[jamar1700]

JMO of course, but this was a very artistic show and musically beautiful. This show is total joy

Yep. I felt that way too.

Welp I left a review of sorts in the Wichita thread. But I still needed to comment on how fun it was to meet up with Gibby and Reiki. Whoever left the blog message on the thread that night did their job well. I was sitting on the bed with my back to the headboard and the computer scream was on the desk across the room and I SAW IT FIRST! Hee. Then we may have "encouraged" Gibby to get to the OFC licketysplit and I dunno maybe someone shouted something like fergawdssakecouldshetypeinherloginandpasswordanyslower? and then we all squealed with delight as she read the blog aloud to us.

Good times. :F_05BL17blowkiss:

[Claygasm]

ldyjoceyln

This show is total joy

This description cracks me up....when there are others complai-...er...stating their opinions ...about how "somber" and "solemn" the show is. LOL! I'll take joy any day!

Maybe I'm missing something here - and truly I am not trying to stir the turd, as our boyfriend might say - but is there something wrong with someone thing that FOR THEM, IN THEIR OPINION they found the concert somber and solemn?

I am seriously asking because we all know everyone has different tastes. What is joyful and artistic to one person may seem too somber and solemn to another. What is wrong with someone stating that opinion?

Truly I am not trying to start anything. I am just curious as to why when someone states one opinion they are scoffed at while other opinions are welcomed.

It is just get very confusing to me as to what is acceptable behavior and what's not. And who gets to decide what's acceptable and what's not.

[jamar1700]

but is there something wrong with someone thing that FOR THEM, IN THEIR OPINION they found the concert somber and solemn?

No, of course not. Just as there shouldn't be anything wrong with someone saying IN THEIR OPINION it's neither somber or solemn. Do we all get a say or not?

Come on CG...you know that many of us have been hit over the head with the groupthink thing in this fandom. I know you have. You've talked about it. But so have I. Only from the opposite end of the spectrum. Because it does go both ways. I decided a long time ago that I will continue to state my heartfelt opinions about the joy that Clay brings to my life. If you or anyone else thinks I'm only doing that to counter someone else's opinion...as I said in the other thread...that's on the individual. I can only control my own behavior. Other people aren't always going to agree with me and that's fine with me, but still, Clay Aiken brings me joy.

---

I'm supposed to be painting... :clay:

[Couch Tomato]

Oh I laughed when I saw it too. I read a lot of sombers after the the cellcert (don't know if I've read that from any recaps but haven't read that many) and I've also read joyless (again same, cellcert listeners after the first show, not concert goers)..... so I giggled when I saw it too... You stayed away from the first show but maybe you dont' get it but this isn't anything new for FCA. Just go to the show and post your feelings. Things will sort themselves out.

[cindilu2]

I think the difference is when they use 'somber and solemn' as a condemnation, not merely their own personal feelings about the show.

That's my take on it.

[playbiller]

I have read complaints that Clay has not bent over enough to give some good shots for ass pictures. While all people have a right to opinions, some opinions crack me up, some are expected because we learn each others filters and others don't make a lot of sense. I hae more than 3 opinions on opinions, but these are the only interesting ones.

Happy 3rd concert day all, and pleasant travels to those attending tonight.

I'll be here

[Couch Tomato]

and I won't beat a dead horse... if there will be no bus lines, maybe a little blog to that affect. CLay's safety is of utmost importance but so are my girls freezing their asses off. Thaw out soon LdyJ. heee.

ETA: Hey Caro... love your blogs...I always get the google alert!!

[Carolina Clay]

Good Morning, FCA! :F_05BL17blowkiss:

Loving the tour from afar via recaps and clack. It must really be something in person.

Beautiful banner, merrieeee!

Most folks know that I hatesssss strongly dislike graphics that change the colour of his eyes. What's interesting about this is, I didn't change them one bit - I merely removed the rest of the colour from the photo. He really does have the most fascinating eyes. Or maybe it's just me *g*

Regular

Widescreen

Cindilu2, these are gorgeous! Thank you for having Clay "mesmerize" us.

Messed up my quotes, but keepingfaith posted:

Cindilu, I had that wallpaper as my desktop -- and it looks fabulous with either the brown or wine background. I can't take my eyes off the profile -- with that hair -- and that faint, knowing smile -- it's too much!!!

I agree with keepingfaith RE the brown/wine backgrounds. I fell in love with the brown version, and either makes an awesome desktop. The handsome graphic in the middle is stunning with either border.

Here are the wine-colored versions you posted a few pages back:

I ran this as the lead graphic in my previous blog. My current OFC entry features the Wichita concert and -- after a little updating -- the St. Louis performance, too. I'm off to bring the Carolina On My Mind version up to date.

Have a great day, all!

Caro

[playbiller]

Congatulations on makingthe top 5 blogs on the OFC, CC. She has a wonderful blog, I try and always stop in to view it when I got to the OFC, it is constantly being updated.

Here is a note CB got from BAF

Message from Aron:

Congratulations!

Thank you so much!!! What an amazing time I've had seeing my inbox fill up with all the Donation Notifications. We're getting ready to start reviewing all the grant applications and it's nice to know one more community of children will have doors opened for them because of your generosity. Hey, 3 days left! Why not 2 camps? J

Aron Hall

They work like dogs and what to they get? Can you do more? Hee.

[atinal]

Claygasm, I'll try to respond to your question. I'll be honest and say that I haven't read the "solemn and somber" post so I don't know the context in which it was included. I will say of this show that I could see it being "solemn and somber" and at the same time being "a total joy".

If the person saying "solemn and somber" meant it in a critical way, you are right they are as much entitled to their opinion as anyone else, but I reserve the right to disagree and say why. I don't think it is unreasonable to expect on "fan" message boards that their might be more who love a show and want to state their excitement and enthusiasm if they think it was a triumph for Clay.

No one likes to think someone is saying they are "wrong" if their opinion comes from a differing point of view, but I think sometimes it's hard not to wonder if a person is talking about the same show you just saw.

[00lsee]

Claygasm

Maybe I'm missing something here - and truly I am not trying to stir the turd, as our boyfriend might say - but is there something wrong with someone thing that FOR THEM, IN THEIR OPINION they found the concert somber and solemn?

Actually, I was laughing about the dichotomy, because it just goes to show how different perceptions can be. I was also making a teensy (tiny, miniscule) joke by substituting "opinion" for "complaining" based on our board discussion earlier about how much is too much where expressing opinions is concerned.

cindilu

I think the difference is when they use 'somber and solemn' as a condemnation, not merely their own personal feelings about the show.

And yes, I also meant THAT. And of COURSE those who want to express it in a condemning or non-condemning way are certainly FREE to do so.

And no...the perceptions of "sober" and "solemn" and "joy" are not mutually exclusive.

I was LAUGHING, y'all!

It just struck me as F-U-N-N-Y.

And so, I was expressing my OPINION that it was funny. That's it. That's all.

I'm going to go get my giggle back now.

[merryclay]

In person...I thought they looked very classy.

I loved the dresses. Pure class to me with a little elegant mixed in. The tucked look in skirts is very in. I thought the black was quite slenderizing. I love A and Q and I thought they looked beautiful.

I think people were a bit worried during the cellcert, the first night, because it wasn't clear enough to tell anything. The people that attended said he was amazing and after more of the fandom had an opportunity to listen to those incredible DLs, it seemed obvious to some that Clay and Jesse were offering some of the best music we've ever had. Clay seemed all grown-up and handsome and he hit it out of the park with the VOX. I think the rest depends on expectations and what kind of music one likes. If you like this kind of music, to me, it doesn't get any better than this.

ETA- I really don't know if it's true or not but I was wondering if less talk might bring better singing. I've heard some say talking was hard on singers during concerts, but I don't know anything about it. He's always done it.

[muskifest]

Someone at CB has a scan of a page in a Seek and Find puzzle book that's all about A Clay Aiken Christmas! Amazing...words to find in clude Aiken and Parler, audience, Adams (Yolanda), etc.....

How surreal to open a mass-produced puzzle book and find a page devoted to YOU!

And that--the fact that Clay has become part of our "pop" culture to the extent that he garners such attention....

And then...the fact that he has steered his course in the public eye---both in terms of his vocal 'direction' and his private life---true to himself at all times, regardless of the reaction from both fans and foes...

This man is meant for a long career. The proverbial tortoise in the race. All the fans' beating of breasts and angsting over his choices seem so....

silly...

when I try to see the whole package picture. He's the gift. His voice is the gift. And it's versatile and paradoxical and constant and infinitely surprising.

May I offer a peace pipe? In this concert's solemn setting, he IS joy.

:F_05BL17blowkiss:

[luckiest1]

I think I need a copy of that Seek & Find magazine.

ETA a link. It is a Penny Press Movie & TV Word Seeks magazine. Volume 20. Holiday Special.

In this concert's solemn setting, he IS joy.

Thread title?

:F_05BL17blowkiss: to 00lsee

[Couch Tomato]

must find that crossworld puzzle book.... sounds like it was done by a Clay fan.

[luckiest1]

Damn, I just checked the corner store and they didn't have it. The hunt is on!

[Desertflower]

I think the term "Group Think" is pretty subjective. If it means the majority opinion of a Board, I think it depends on the people that populate the Board. So one could even say there is "Group Think" on this Board. JMO

I do think it is a pretty condescending term though.

[keepingfaith]

Come on, CG, let's be fair. We all dish it out, and we all have to take it, too. I know you freely express your opinions, and so do I. Sometimes we agree and sometimes we don't. After I saw Clay for the very first time, you told me 5 minutes after the show that it was basically a horrible performance and the biggest mistake of his career and so forth, yet I saw what I saw and heard what I heard and loved every minute of it. You were entitled to think what you did, and express it -- yet my opinion didn't change your mind, and yours didn't affect mine. I don't think it's complicated. We just allow each other to have opposing opinions. I sometimes put in "IMO" but most of the time don't because I assume it's assumed by all that everything we put down on the boards is opinion unless we cite a source.

My sticking point is completely different -- it's when I see a special select group with a particular brand on them who do their dance of doom, with accompanying suggestions for salvation, right on cue. That irks me some, and I'm trying to get over it, because if that's what blows up their skirts then "have at it" -- I'm not there yet, but I'm working on it. I don't think I've found anyone I agree with 100% -- and don't ever expect to -- and don't think I'd necessarily want to!

My motto: Stand on principles and say what you think and feel -- and then move on. And if you change your mind next week, okay. If not, okay. No matter what ... okay.

I've seen enough of this fandom to know that it's all different people of various ages from all regions and all walks of life. There will never be a lockstep mentality in the Clay Nation no matter how hard some have worked to get everybody on the same page. Because, there are no pages .................... (IMO).

[luckiest1]

I think the term "Group Think" is pretty subjective. If it means the majority opinion of a Board, I think it depends on the people that populate the Board. So one could even say there is "Group Think" on this Board. JMO

I do think it is a pretty condescending term though.

I don't think it's condescending. And as I read through the last couple of pages here, I'm not seeing my definition of group think going on. I'm seeing sharing of opinions, and discussion about those opinions, and whether one opinion should be given more weight than another opinion. But group think? Not here. Unless you define it as "loving Clay Aiken". We are definitely guilty of that!

Keepingfaith wrote:

My sticking point is completely different -- it's when I see a special select group with a particular brand on them who do their dance of doom, with accompanying suggestions for salvation, right on cue.

Mine too. The unfortunate part about it is that there are many, many fans who don't know what to think and what to believe, so they will bow down to the ones who shout the loudest, or command the most attention.

I have to take my son to the hospital this afternoon, to see a variety of specialists.....nothing serious, and hopefully it will do him some good, but UGH. I hate waiting for hours on end to see someone for a few minutes. And he has to see 3. And then he has guitar lessons. I just want to go home and watch listen to clack!

[Couch Tomato]

I think the term "Group Think" is pretty subjective. If it means the majority opinion of a Board, I think it depends on the people that populate the Board. So one could even say there is "Group Think" on this Board. JMO

I do think it is a pretty condescending term though.

I'm sure you do. But the history of this board is what it is. Many of us here came to escape certain things. It's grown from that and while we may not have a common opinion, we certainly have a common feeling of what we want in a board. So yep, we have a commonality and I'm proud of it. Doesn't mean every opinion is the same but I'm damn sure nobody is following a pack.

Everybody just remember to not to take things personally. Every utterance of joy is not a rebuke at those less than happy. It's really just an utterance of joy and celebration. And every concern or even dislike is not a sign that someone is less than a fan. Don't ever want to approach that kind of thing.

I think sometimes we all need short term memory loss so we don't carry last week's feelings into today's conversations but we're human. But I think we'll be ok.

[jamar1700]

I do think it is a pretty condescending term though.

I didn't use the term to be condescending. I used it to explain how certain factions of the fandom try to make it uncomfortable for someone to express a differing opinion. And if you've ever experienced that then you know what I'm talking about. If you haven't than maybe you don't.

My point was that it isn't always

ohmygawdhowdareyousayanythingnegativeaboutclay!

Sometimes it's

howdareyouthinkclayshoulddoanythingbutarenapopconcertscuzhemustbearock!stah!

So if it's okay for someone to say it's somber and solemn then I think it's okay for someone else to say they didn't find it somber and solemn at all.

And sometimes it is just semantics. *g*

Personally I thought Clay ooozed joy.

---

it's okay...I'm through editing now...hee.

[Couch Tomato]

If someone doesn't like it, they don't like.

But first night I just thought solemn and somber and joyless were buzzwords for where is my funny sexy man that is supposed to entertain all the friends I talked into going and now all they're going to get is.... singing So I laugh at that, not someone's real opinion on the show. It's not the end of the world if it's not universally liked. Nothing is.

bwah..Jamar..you and your editor. Follow Clay's advice and repeat after me. Here's to not caring that I have misspelled words and bad grammar. heee

[playbiller]

Well, there is one group think I like to think is here - respect for a certain singerboy. I would like to believe that permeates Clay nation, yet sometimes I find mocking him is more fun for some fans. Just shows you different boards have different definitions of what a fan is and that is why we group to different boards.

I have to admit I have different reasons for belonging to different boards - one is to not allow ghetto-ization of Clay fans to just Clay boards, others are because I just love certain posters and I want to be near them no matter what else I read - shoot me.

Group think across Clay nation? Yeah, there is that - it is the cult ofthe insider. I don't know why people haveto know what is none of their beusiness, but apparently many fans feel it is a right.

[djs111]

If you or anyone else thinks I'm only doing that to counter someone else's opinion.

Ha! One of those "crux" things.....having a different opinion is not really disagreement, to me, because while I find other people's opinions about something subjective, like, say, what color a wall is painted, or how a concert is perceived, sometimes interesting as all get-out, I don't really take those opinions into any sort of consideration, I just have my own.

If someone thinks that when i say my opinion is different - about a subjective thing - that I am saying they are wrong, they are extrapolating incorrectly. Or being disingenuous. Either way, not my problem.

Even if everyone I know swore that yellow is the most beautiful color to paint a house, I would still serenely think NOT MY HOUSE! YUCK!, because color is subjective. It would be pointless and silly to think the yellow folks are wrong and I am right, we would just have differing opinions about something entirely subjective. And yellow would just go on being yellow, no matter what anyone thinks about it. (I am not talking about the evidently pervasive idea that yellow houses sell quicker, it is only that I hate that color).

Now if someone only feels comfy if no one else has a different opinion, a fan board is prolly not the place to look for validation.

(BTW - Clay's "inclusion" - to me, Clay's idea of inclusion is about Life - access to classes, playtimes, jobs, etc. It would only apply to a concert if concerts were required attendance, and there was only the one kind available. One can't just opt out of Life, but for concerts, just wait until one you like comes along and go to that one. It is all voluntary.)

[Guest Toots]

My motto: Stand on principles and say what you think and feel -- and then move on. And if you change your mind next week, okay. If not, okay. No matter what ... okay.

That's my motto kf, speak your mind then move on. I never hold a grudge unless it's intensely personal and no one here knows me well enough to get that personal.

It's a beautiful sunny crisp day here in my part of northern California. Wish all of you stuck in the cold and snow could share the weather with us, that is unless you don't want to! .

lucky, good luck with you son today. :F_05BL17blowkiss: