#25: TONIGHT'S THE KNIGHT! Knock 'em not-quite dead!

[luckiest1]

play, if I've already donated, is there some way I can donate again and make it count?

[claytonic]

I have read quite a bit of fan criticism of Clay for using the "we" and "us" references. It's not at all hard for me to understand why he does it. Utltimately, I think Clay makes the final big decisions on his career, but I do think there are others involved in helping him to make decisions. We can be a him and his management company, we can be him and Jaime and any one else that helps him make a clothing or hairstyle choices, we can be him and Jaymes and his new producer, we can be him and his record label, on tours we is his touring family. It just doesn't seem that odd for me. (Of course, I never earned the nickname 'farmer girl" after having never lived on a farm for nuthin'), so what do I know.

Add to that, I think Clay is a fairly humble person and doesn't tend to take credit for his sucesses alone either.

I always understood the "we", and it has become part of his speech when he is talking professionally. Someone I used to work for spoke similarly, but always automatically switched to "I" if he talked to a family member, etc.

Anyone who has grown up in an environment where several languages are spoken, as a child, they automatically switched from English to Spanish if talking to (say) Grandma, or French if talking to (say) Dad etc. I don't know if I am explaining it correctly but you just automatically switch into a mode without even having to stop and think about it. I know it from experience and I totally get how Clay speaks. Whoever it was who said that Clay probably doesn't even hear himself say 'we' is probably right, his brain knows to 'switch' to the 'language' that is appropriate, and there is nothing else to it. I think it is only a big deal to the kinds of people who are also not comfortable (read: intolerant) with anything outside their comfort-zone, such an unfamiliar accent or language etc.

That's my take on it.

[djs111]

djs111

But heterosexuals I know don't compulsively need to talk about sex all the time like certain writers or posters

I beg your pardon? You talkin' to ME?! Just what are you implying? I resemble that remark. Is that bad? (tm CHA)

Bwah! No, I don't mean you - I mean the people who define themselves or others primarily by what they think is their sexual orientation, and then natter on about it as if, say, homosexuals life a completely different kind of life in all areas. People who would describe someone as, say, a lesbian who is a journalist instead of as a journalist who is a lesbian.

It kinda creeps me out how many people think they are entitled to know about Clay's private life. Curious? yeah, ok, to a point. But some seem like they are entitled to that information, and that if anyone asks Clay about it, he should tell them.

You KNOW there are "journalists" who are just salivating to be able to say he said he is gay - and anything else he says is completely ignored. I love seeing him toy with those people.

I find it kinda funny, too, when people say he needs to "fix" things, as if they are totally the expert on how he should "be".

Well, its ok if Paula says that. 'cause she is nuts.

[rohdy]

His use of we and us doesn't even register with me half the time.

But then I am the same person who worked alone for 18 years and when work was dropped off for me to do I would fill out the form and reply, "We should have this ready for you tomorrow" Something needed fixing and I hadn't gotten to it yet? "Hopefully, WE can get to it tomorrow."

Sometimes I would catch myself saying it and crack up.....in my case it was like I was looking for someone to blame incase I didn't get the job done.

So yeah....when he uses it, just seems natural to me. 'Cause ya know he really does have a whole back up support system doing who knows what for and with and even TO him.

[luckiest1]

Recap from RVzLady at CH:

ETA: Removed at RVzLady's request.

[claytonic]

Oh, I just remembered something...

About two weeks ago, I was in a stationery store and talking to a guy working there about an item I wanted;

and he said "I don't have any more of those".

I asked him "Do you own this store"

He said "No".

I said: "Then why do you use the first person singular? You should say "we", not "I", because you are speaking on behalf of the company"

I guess you could say I didn't get a smile out of him....

[FearofH2O]

Loved RVZlady's recap. After all the controversy of her getting so many of the "peasant" seats, I'm glad it turned out well for her. I guess I just don't care what any fan does to express their "ClayLove" as long as it doesn't involve me.

About the article- didn't bother me. A famous photographer took his picture. It's weird but I guess it's some kind of work of art. How would I know I'm just another hick from NC. That was a lot of print space for someone, unless he is interesting. I guess it's like going to the zoo and watching the lions. They are fascinating but your not going to find out too much about what they are thinking or planning. Watch out for those teeth.

[Gibby]

Heeee, Fear, that's a great analogy!

And I enjoyed RVzlady's recap, too. The 'last name' she came up with is hysterical, and Clay's reaction at the stage door was priceless!

[muskifest]

That was a lot of print space for someone, unless he is interesting. I guess it's like going to the zoo and watching the lions. They are fascinating but your not going to find out too much about what they are thinking or planning. Watch out for those teeth.

Bwah and right on, Fear! :thumbup:

Teeth? Yeah, I'll watch out for the teeth. Of course, they'll have to be patient as I'll be busy 'watching out for' other, more...animate parts of his anatomy first....

[jumpingjacks]

Do NOT read the comments at that site....when will people learn to not engage the idiots who post at these places?

That picture is horrid...WTH?

[Ansamcw]

I guess what the article has brought out to me is more of a disconnect with some of the fandom - the sneering at Clay's "Aw Shucks schtick" - as I am one of those who don't see it as so much as a "schtick" rather than a real part of his personality. It's something he's always done from the first time we saw him on AI. It may be a part people don't like or are tired of, but that may not make it any less real - and the desire people have for him to suppress or change it is a little disturbing for me. I also tend to draw a blank on the offensiveness of Clay's (or anyone's) using "we" and "us" - I agree with someone earlier who said he doesn't even hear it anymore, and if he did, probably wouldn't see why it would bother anyone. I don't see why it's so unbelievable that he might see himself as a nerd - hell, I see myself as one. He really is a multi-faceted personality - just like everyone else - and many of those facets simply don't line up with everyone else's. And I don't think particular facets need to be "fixed" because some may not like them. I guess it just pushes some of my buttons elsewhere that people say, "oooh, he's self-depreciating therefore it's a defense mechanism therefore he needs therapy because that's what I would do and look how clever that author is to see what I see!"

The more I read the article and reactions to it, the less I like it.

Oh gosh...this is the kind of reaction I was afraid of. Clay is who he is...he does not have to change just because some journalist or fans don;t get him. I also don't get the issue about we and us. He usually uses it to refer to his career...like we are goign back to the studios, which is understandable cos the recording process is done by a team...we are going out on tour...means Clay and touring family...we decided to do Spamalot...Clay and management. Just because other artists don't do it means he shouldn't. He is very aware of the effort his team brings to keep his career on track and I think this is his way of never forgetting that.

Although Aiken can depend on the adulation of strangers, he doesn’t know anyone in New York and is worried he will be lonely now that he’s moved here to take a role in the Broadway musical Spamalot, based on Monty Python and the Holy Grail. “I almost cried on the first day on my way to rehearsal,” he says. “I’m here until May 4, and I’ve never lived alone before.”

Does someone else live in his Raleigh house as well?

Isn't Jerome in NY with him? I thought they were friends, so surely that would mean Clay isn't really alone in NY, i.e. he has a 'family' with with. I assume Jerome is considered family as well, along with his usual little group that he travels with on tour and to shows where he is performing.

Yes he always had someone live in NC with him. Same when he lived in LA and even in college he had roommates.

I really hate it when people suggest he takes therapy or change. He is a very successful man that had all these people following his every move. He seem to be doing something right. If he feels he needs help in anyway....he will get it and I don;t think he will be announcing it to the fans.

I actually think that distorted picture is a great companion to the article that pretty much has a distorted view of Clay. Yes she was looking at him...but through some fish eye lens that makes him some sort of caricature than a real person.

Awww, thats a nice recap by RVZlady. I love his little comments to fans.

[aikim]

I love Clay's comments to fans also, but I also think there is always a bit of truth to what he says and I could imagine him being a bit embarrased by that fan.

Kim

[Scarlett]

http://nymag.com/arts/tv/features/43266/

So digging around the NY Mag I found this article on Leno. The picture cracked me up.

I was reading the article in the same issue about Eli Manning and the first part was all about how Tom Brady would have been the perfect quarterback for NYC and listed a whole bunch of his accomplishments. The equivalent for us would have been if that conversation with the stylist had been removed and replaced by, "you know, it's really Fantasia who deserves all this attention", and then proceeds to list al the reasons why she's a much better Broadway star. The NY Giants are in the Superbowl -- and they're talking about the other QB?!! I'm only just sort of rooting for the Giants this time but I was ready to throw something at the monitor.

I think they specialize in getting people to react and talk about their articles, maybe argue, maybe get upset.

('course it looked like she couldn't get a rise out of Clay so it sounded like she was getting very frustrated)

I'm still Meh about it. Don't people normally answer stupidly intrusive questions with stuff like, "Oh, I've forgotten how" or "Doesn't that end with marriage", etc.

[muskifest]

I love Clay's comments to fans also, but I also think there is always a bit of truth to what he says and I could imagine him being a bit embarrased by that fan.

Kim

Yup...if she'd done this at a Clay concert, I'd probably be less squicked out...and I imagine it was pretty funny to the cast members...but I can also imagine that Clay might've cringed when she said it. Oh well....

I canNOT wait to see him on the Broadway stage...cannot WAIT! And I want to know more about this 'standing room only' deal---where exactly do you stand and are these cheapo tix sold only when every seat has been sold? I don't know the drill...

Coss when I'm in NYC, I'll be at every showing of Spamalot I can make---sitting, standing or flinging myself prostrate in front of Sir Robin--do you think THAT would embarrass him?

[Cotton]

<snip>There was just enough good stuff (how smart he is) to mask what was a very sophisticated hatchet job to me... course I'm just a hick from mid-Illinois so what do I know! Grrrr!

My ramblings on the NYMag thingy:

His dorkiness schtick might be unpopular . . .

But - I didn't like Levy reaching back so much into LTS for Clay's persona or views. She had the man right there. In the here and now. Why go back to 5 years ago and quote it as if it's his current stance?

I'm glad I read it. I do think she hit some things right. But I still feel she didn't 'get' Clay. I don't think she really went into this to 'get' Clay Aiken.

And while I may prefer it if Clay weren't so self-deprecating, I think hoping that will happen is like trying to hold smoke in your hand.

He's a Southern guy. It's taught early and often that braggin' is just wrong.

I also saw some grammatical errors that I think were misquotes. I know he's not perfect grammatically, but the errors I saw there are not his typical ones. (was instead of were is the one that stood out as NOT a common Clay error)

At least she recognized Clay's intelligence, but I still don't like her writing in this article.

Particularly . . .

"the little charity worker" - I didn't check so I'm sure this is not an exact quote - except for the 'little', which completely diminishes the work he puts into TBAF and UNICEF. That was the only thing that really made me angry. And it did - make me really angry.

Maybe there was some awkward editing done. Maybe she addressed some things in more depth and they were cut. Maybe Clay was in a crappy mood and it colored the article.

I'm not giving the article any weight as to his success in SPAM or the upcoming CD or his future in any way. I just don't think it matters, really.

It's just my out-ot-the-gate reaction to reading it.

Really. So much is written/said/joked/commented/judged about Clay - how important is this one article?

Not so much.

Oh, yeah. The picture? The photographer might as well have used a fish-eye lens. Sheesh!

I'm done now.

You're welcome!

hee

[lilyshine]

Condescending or not, the article is still a lengthy article in a well-know magazine that's spread around lots of "pick up & read" places like doctor's waiting rooms! Plus four pages on the web. It may be damning with faint praise, but it's not mean or derogatory like some have been.

As for the picture, I think it's an attempt at "arty" - more of a caricature than a portrait, similar in style to the cartoons that festoon the walls of so many NYC eating places.

[Cotton]

Mail lady just arrived with PINS!!

No postage due!!

They are purdy!

:F_05BL17blowkiss:

ETA:

Clay's Monday SPAM blog is up!

http://www.montypythonsspamalot.com/land/blog/

Clay's Monday SPAMblog!

[playbiller]

No pins for me. [sniff

[keepingfaith]

I've just got a couple of things ....

When did fans throw panties when he sang Everything I Do (I Do It For You)?

and

When did Clay even sing Everything I Do (I Do It For You)?

Was that the same year he voted for Jesse Helms?

[Cotton]

No pins for me. [sniff

Awww!

Maybe we don't have as much mail to get delivered here in this one horse town as you do in the big city!!!

Maybe tomorrow!

[Couch Tomato]

As for the picture, I think it's an attempt at "arty" - more of a caricature than a portrait, similar in style to the cartoons that festoon the walls of so many NYC eating places.

I think so too. When I saw it online I went WTF. And while it may look strange and out of place all by itself it probably fits right into the magazine.

In the past week or so I remember Clay doin the "we" "us" thing and for the first time I went ... explain it Clay. I can't even remember where it was..but I seem to think it was live..so one of the interviews last week. I know he's talking about his management or some part of team clay but does everybody? My whole entire family is from the south and I've never heard anyone speak like that. To me it's uniquely Clay and I love Clay the way he is and don't want him to change. That means some folks won't get him. So be it.

Still not upset by the article. I guess because I read a lot of alternative type stuff and this would seem to fit right into something like the SF Guardian - photo and all. I tend to think Clay and his "we" knew what they were dealing with and I think the fans take things harder than Clay. What's really there that is an indictment. He's smarter than he pretends to be? Anybody who reads the article will have everything in context - he's focusing on his career, not his love life.

The comments - yeah I read some last night. More agendas in the comments than in the article. IT's sad that we've learned absolutely nothing in five years. Oh well. I need to accept that some things won't change.

As for any psychoanalysis of Clay - I'm sorry but I roll my eyes at it. What the hell does anyone know. If the woman can't present Clay from today because of what she read in LTS, neither should the fans analyze him based on what they read in LTS. As for therapy. Pfft. It's not for everyone. Some people turn therapy into a lifelong event. And some people culturally just don't do the therapy thing. I know one person in my family that ever sought therapy and most of them have had some hard knocks. Clay seems to be thriving to me so I'll leave it to him to decide what works.

Nothing like going for a doctor's appoint for a little dose of reality. I've got to get serious about losing weight stat, before my doctor kills me.

[keepingfaith]

Well, at least Huffington's entertainment page didn't use the NY rag's awful picture!

[playbiller]

there is apparently a following story in NYmag - I am sure if you liked the first one, you will love this one - it is titled "Clay Aiken Is the Ron Paul of the Entertainment World".

Anyone who has ever written anything about Clay Aiken knows that he is the Ron Paul of the entertainment world: Like Paul, Aiken is followed by a cadre of ...

Link? -I ain't posting no stinking link to an article I won't give hits to. Agenda much?

[muskifest]

That Huffington Post is just the beginning, I figure. I mean, c'mon....those quotes about his having no 'urges'? Perfect fodder for the mills....Actually, this particular extrapolation of the 'quotes' from the New York Mag. article is rather mild compared to what is bound to show up in the supermarket rags...I don't look forward to the flap, quite honestly.

I love Clay Aiken. And I don't care if not every freakin' joker who sits down with him 'gets him'---hell, I don't know the guy, so I couldn't tell you for sure that I do. But honestly? I am tired. Tired of even KNOWING that the kind of 'reporting' this particular writer did is not going to end---that the crap is not going to end---and (even knowing that it wouldn't do any good) that Clay isn't going to do anything public to 'seek justice' when/if his words are misquoted, poorly (intentionally or not) edited and otherwise misleading. I admire him for being who he is---don't get me wrong. I'm speaking only for myself as a loving and faithful fan who'll be one regardless, but who is just.tired.of.all.the.shit.

I'm tired of this kind of article getting all kinds of mileage through the bs outlets that will piggyback on it and that the audience for such 'publications' is huge. I'm tired of the sensational and sordid of any situation overshadowing (to the masses, the general public at least) the good and worthy.

Just tired.

[KAndre]

The gold standard Ron Paul? The one I pretend isn't half a district over from me?

Huh.

Did Levy write that one too?