#51: You go on with your bad self, Mr. Aiken

[canfly172]

I was week behind here, so I read 20 pages last night and today.

No way am I quoting that much, lol....

I read the clack discussion and yeah, it's really nice when we have at least 3 or 4 different views from an event. No one angle can capture everything. My personal preference is to include some background and then give a couple of slow close-up zoom in and outs (down Muski). If doing "shoot from my knee" clack, then sometimes there is no choice to make it all close-up to the exclusion of everything else going on because I have to shoot around heads and through a small hole. I try hard to not zoom past my capability to keep it steady but sometimes if there is only a tiny hole to shoot though, I don't have much of a choice. I do thank anybody who ever swapped seats for me or leaned slightly left or right for me. I don't expect it but it sure is nice when it happens.

What else...AI shit...what a load of crap. I do think that it's interesting how Clay still seems to be a hot topic. After he came out, I thought that there was a definite "laying off" by the media. That whole ridiculous made up scenario where Clay (who doesn't watch Idol) wanted to meet Adam and was denied access, yadda yadda...that may not have been planted by Idol in any way shape or form. Don't forget that if the tabloids can make up shit about Clay, they can make up shit about Idol too. Clay has been steadfast in not slamming Idol...other than to say that it lost it's innocence and that most of the contestants already have some experience. He seems to bear no ill-will. Who knows WHY he's been excluded. I wouldn't blame the whole Idol "machine". Not sure that we'll ever know the exact reason. It would seem kind of petty and 'bite off their nose to spite their face"...or however the expression goes, to not include him because he got out of his contract with 19. The idea of the show is to "discover talent"...well, you'd think that showcasing Clay would be a way to blow their own horns. Simon seems to look down his nose at Broadway but broadway doesn't put people on stage unless they really are talented and can sing...so it's a compliment to be recruited to perform on Broadway.

Ok...let the quoting begin. I think that I started about page 30ish.

QUOTE (clayzycoffin @ May 14 2009, 05:25 PM)

I like his shoes. Have we seen them before? I don't remember seeing him wearing sneakers that much.

There are several instances of Clay wearing Chucks from the ATDW promo period in 2006:

Didn't know what that style of sneaker was called but I like the untied look with the jeans and I love the sunglasses on top of his head in the exiting the office building pix.

(I do feel bad for him that he has paparazzi following him and Parker all over LA but hypocritically grateful for the pictures)

I know those pics are posted to reveal the shoes but can I say that i don't like those "posey" pics of Clay? I don't like men in those kinds of poses. PLEASE don't shoot me for not liking SOME Clay pics!!

I'm well known for being super-picky over pix and "looks".

Hee there is one particular photo series that I cannot stand and they still allow me to be a member of this board!

Well, I just discovered that it's the Snowflake pix that you don't like. I really love that look. I didn't at first but was just happier than hell that the bangs were gone, lol. The snowflake pix have really grown on me since. Ditto NAJNT hair. I strongly dislike...OK...I hate the ATDW and AIW hair. I love OMWH hair soooooooo much though. Loved the long fluffy Spam 1 stagedoor hair too. I really dislike the whole series of pix like the one that clayzcoffin posted with the "chucks" and the bangs and him sitting on the piano bench. I always thought that they looked "sleezy". The ATDW hair and necklaces look always felt "fake" to me...like they were trying to make him into something that he wasn't.

:chair:

QUOTE (claylove @ May 14 2009, 08:11 PM)

OMG I can't believe you don't like snowflake Clay??? I absolutely love those photos! hee... To each there own :-)

Oh I'd say it's a lot more than "don't like"!

That's me with the bangs. I hate 'em.

That snowflake picture is one of my favorites of all time!!!!!

Nawww, I don't like it at all.

OMG!!! I love that so much!!!

I wants one!

I never thought that Clay would have what amounts to cosmetic surgery so I am feeling a little shocked. Apparently there is still some swelling in his face but since the surgeon broke and repositioned his jaw I am thinking that Clay of the oval/round jaw may be transformed into square jawed Clay.

I thought Clay's face had become much more square long before this surgery. I think it's related to getting older--mens' jaws develop last. I find him all kinds of sexy--more so now than ever. I wish someone would remove MY double chin! But, I wouldn't want to have my jaw broken, that's for damn sure.

I doubt that he would have had something done except for the fact that they were in there breaking his jaw anyhow. It explains the swelling/puffy jaw in the GLAAD pix that didn't seem in the right spot for TMJ surgery.

He had to have his jaw broken and repositioned due to TMJ, definitely NOT cosmetic surgery. That he took the opportunity to have some extra fat removed (again, caused by medication) at the same time is hardly a reflection on his character. He did say there was still stiffness and (he thought) some swelling. The tabs can't/won't say or spin it any worse than his fans have.

I don't really read anywhere other than the Shed, NNHB or here, so really this is the first I've seen any discussion of it. I took it for what he said it was...they were already in there, so why not get rid of an after effect from the Paxil that was bothering him.

I'm still curious about the scar under his skin that we first noticed during CITH, lol.

Clay is a lot more forthcoming to his fans than I'd be in his position.

I wouldn't tell anyone jackshit as whatever he says gets somebody's knickers in knots.

I admire his honestly big time.

Yup. I was surprised that he actually answered that question because he'd ignored previous questions about his jaw surgery.

The one question that I wish that he'd answer was as simple as, "Are you planning on touring this year?" A simple, "No. We weren't sure that my jaw would be healed well enough for a tour" would have been plenty for me.

I don't get the gay questions--I mean, would someone feel comfortable asking a man if he'd read any heterosexual biographies??

I was surprised that he answered that question but I think he was a little peeved and wanted to make a point.

So if I have to have my hips broken and repositioned, I can get the doc to suck out some of that fat around my ass? YEAY!

lol...On my long list of things I'd like to have done if I had a bunch of extra money kicking around and more nerve:

1. Have my upper hips liposuctioned and my butt lifted and/or some implants put in on my lower hips to make them look bigger than my upper hips, so I could stop looking less "apple-shaped" and more "pear-shaped". I was self-conscious in a leotard as a kid because I didn't look everybody else. I wear pleated pants from the 90s to try to camoflage my lack of lower hips. My hip shape is literally upside down looking...I hate it.

2. Have the chin thing done and something done with the skin that has turned my mouth into a 50 year old frown. All of a sudden, I look older. Around my eyes, I still look like I'm in my 20s.

3. Have my right eye lowered. My right eye has always been higher than my left one.

4. Have my boobs lifted and made the same size. I've always hated that the right one is way bigger than the left and they've been near my waist, even when I was in my early twenties.

5. Have the top of my ears pinned.

6. Have the scar lessoned from when I had abdominal surgery.

7. Have my teeth fixed.

In short, while I still miss Clay's old widdle teefies, I'd never in a million years think less of him for having his teeth fixed or his chin sucked or his ears pinned or whatever.

Seriously, I don't care if he had a little lipo for his chin fat...but I think it's interesting that he said that the chin fat was leftover from the Paxil---he's always has a little under there---even when he was a skinny boy! Genetics, I assumed.

Yup. Even when I was sick and lost a shitload of weight and was only 108 pounds, my upper hips still stuck out more than my lower hips. It's body type and where the fat cells are located.

Awe, poor baby, still a little stiff and swollen

Yeah and GBB over at the CH said he also had a little suck!!!

Heh.

If I recall correctly, the doctors I saw did say it can change the appearance of your jawline somewhat.

Kinda figured.

Note: I think hulu.com is only available in the US.

Yes, it is! :rant:

It had not been clear previously that he had had the "whole magilla"

Ya made me google FromClaygary!

I really enjoyed the UM youtube, and I'm hoping that Mr. Camerman on the other side of the piano will cough up his clack at some point. I read that someone asked him for it, so we'll see! He probably got a better angle.

I dunno. It looked like the camera was pointed at David at times and behind him even. Weird. Definitely the camera was not pointed at Clay.

QUOTE (aikim @ May 15 2009, 07:45 AM)

Clay singing UM at the DF Gala! EEEEEEEE!, It's beautiful!

Just saw it, it was so beautiful, what a thrill for those there to hear him sing it! Oh I so much what to go to the Gala!!

I have a hotel room booked for the Gala. I've never been to a Gala but lack of a concert season is prompting me to want to go. I need a ticket though. I think Justclay is planning to go and I have a friend Yeahyourgifted, who needs a ticket also. My friend Nicki bought one of the $1000 ones but with new car payments, I just can't justify spending $1000 for one night. I've never tried to get Gala tickets before, so not sure how hard it will be.

Problem is, if you watch him video he was focussing on David.

Yup...and behind him even it appeared sometimes. Ah, well...we got audio and some sort of an image, which was as much as I was hoping for.

Guess whose photo is used in the rotating cube advertising the top stories on Comcast today? Is it Idol #1?? #2?? #3?? Nope, it's Clay!

Meanwhile, on EW's Popwatch, an article about Scrubs is illustrated by, you guessed it, Clay guesting as Kenny: Scrubs is inching towards.....

Must be getting close to the American Idol finale or something....

Heh.

Thanks for the YouTube link! It's also an nice HBD gift for Solo!!!

Happy Birthday Solo!

I love these little birthday guys!!! Too cute!!!

You share a birthday with my friend Sparky/Clayphoria!!!

(a year ago we were traveling to Kimmel and the best, but unfortunately lost, version of Ashes!!!)

Did anybody ever try contacting Kimmel directly?

Thanks for the sendspaces Luckiest1!!!

Gonna post this and then keep going...

[claytonic]

The idea of the show is to "discover talent"...well, you'd think that showcasing Clay would be a way to blow their own horns.

Simon seems to look down his nose at Broadway

but broadway doesn't put people on stage unless they really are talented and can sing...so it's a compliment to be recruited to perform on Broadway.

I honestly don't think Simon looks down on Broadway, he's too entertainment-biz-savvy to not acknowledge what it takes to be able to play a lead role on Broadway where the artist has to be able to sing/act/dance, often all at the same time. In fact, just as some purists think only opera singers really can sing, there are purists who think that a true actor is one that can do live theater because film and television is easy-peasy when you can do retake after retake until you get it right.

What I think is that Idol was initially about finding a pop singer who had the potential to sell multi-platinum albums. Simon is great friends with Andrew Lloyd Webber, whose name is synonymous with some of the most successful productions on Broadway and West End. Many artists would "kill" to be cast in a lead role on Broadway or the West End. Simon's remark to Clay about "being Broadway" (not sure the exact words) may have sounded like a back-handed compliment, but it was most definitely a substantial compliment to be told that if he (Simon) was casting Phantom of the Opera, Clay would get the role. I always saw it as a compliment and simply took Simon's remark as typical of Simon wanting to shake things up to create 'controversy' and giving something for people to talk about. The more people talked about Idol, the better. There was no other reason for them to show those hideous auditions of people who couldn't sing a single note.... except to get viewers to talk about the show and create a buzz.

[Couch Tomato]

hee canfly I think that would win some sort of award...well if we gave out awards.

[canfly172]

QUOTE (liney23 @ May 16 2009, 10:38 AM)

keeping... what do you use to take screencaps? I'd like to be able to do that. I RC&S'd that Clay/Elvis pic so fast!

I have no special apps for it other than just plain Paint, because I am graphically challenged. But here's what I do -- Freeze the video where I want it, hit PrintScreen, paste in Paint, use the crop icon to enclose what I want

Thanks for the screencaps KeepingFaith.

That's about as complicated as I get too, lol. I used to use wmv to do screencaps from vids but printscreening makes more sense cuz it's bigger.

It's amazing how the quality of downloads has improved in the last 6 years huh?

Just keep practicing the smut... please!

I must say that I enjoy all of Clay's extensions.

So sayeth the queen of smut...

Thanks for all the thanks. That's what happens when I get holed up in my bedroom for 2 hours with a laptop. The kitchen guy was using an airgun to do the trim and the dogs were going ballistic, so I took them up with me to calm them down.

Wheeeeeeeee! I have a computer desk again! With shelves and a drawer and everything! My external hard drives can finally come out of storage.....goldarngirl will be happy.

I can't wait to see this new kitchen one day!

Reed updated his public myspace comments...here's one he approved...

QUOTE

May 11 2009 11:47 AM

A quote from Lucille Ball:

"Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead."

I went "Awwwwwwwwwww..." when I read that earlier today. It's cute in that, from what I understand, Reed approves the comments that can be posted.

I triple dog dare anyone to have a problem with the lipo! Triple Dog!

lol...I don't have a problem with the lipo but I was thinking that 30Rock was filmed prior to "the little procedure"? :chair:

Who is the dude with the white hair? I've been meaning to ask.

If I follow the order of the names from the Huffington Post site then it's Michael McDonald. Who him?

hee canfly I think that would win some sort of award...well if we gave out awards.

Heh. I wasn't done but I was afraid that the board would reject it cuz of too many emotes or did you up the limit? I used to have to chop quotaramas up into 3 or 4 parts.

OK. I'm done now.

[canfly172]

'cept to say, lookit all of the crap I quoted and I didn't eff up, even once!!!

Go me.

[justclay12]

hee canfly I think that would win some sort of award...well if we gave out awards.

Just be grateful that she didn't bring over 3 page explanations of something. It's a wonder she doesn't have carpal tunnel.

I have to head to bed now because I have to get up tomorrow at 6am, which is an ungodly hour for someone like me, but wanted to let you know I was still alive. Finished my finals- got 2 A's and 2 B's for the semester, yay me- and I've been moving for what seems like the last 6 months but has only been a month. That includes painting and all that wonderful stuff, which is why I haven't been around. Between school, work, and moving, I'm exhausted. Thank goodness for summer break.

Good God, she done posted again. What a blabbermouth.

[djs111]

Didn't know what that style of sneaker was called but I like the untied look

Converse Slips - I have about seven pairs - they are really comfortable. Not untied - there is a band of elastic under the tongue that holds the shoe on your foot, it is not made to use shoelaces.

Of course, I am pretty sure Clay wears the $125-or-so John Varvato designer slips. I wear the $50 (but I can always find them on sale for lots less) Chuck Taylor slips.

choose chuck taylor all star

or pick slip-on

I think most people assumed Simon meant "gay" when he said "Broadway". Season 2 was still in the We Are Only Looking for a Pop Star stage of American Idol, plus Ruben was so much the judges' favorite that anything Simon said to Clay seemed like something that was meant to discourage votes for him.

Broadway of itself is not a pejorative, but that is how Simon seemed to use it - it is all in the delivery and intention.

If I follow the order of the names from the Huffington Post site then it's Michael McDonald. Who him?

Doobie Brothers.

(Cannot stand his voice, but prolly am quite alone there.)

[claytonic]

I think most people assumed Simon meant "gay" when he said "Broadway". Season 2 was still in the We Are Only Looking for a Pop Star stage of American Idol, plus Ruben was so much the judges' favorite that anything Simon said to Clay seemed like something that was meant to discourage votes for him.

Broadway of itself is not a pejorative, but that is how Simon seemed to use it - it is all in the delivery and intention.

It never occurred to me that Simon was implying "gay" with his Broadway remark, not even when I watched the whole series properly for the first time, several years later when I already knew the rumors, not once did I think there was any gay implication about Clay in any of his performances. Call me naive but truly I didn't. It did occur to me that Ruben was favored but by the final stages of the show, I am sure TPTB would have been just as happy with a Clay victory, after all the bottom line was always about money and they KNEW that Clay had been receiving remarkable numbers in viewer votes and reaction of the public during his home town visit was indeed, as a radio station guy said, akin to "Elvis is in the building" (or something like that). Having watched Simon making controversial-type comments in numerous shows (Idol, XFactor, Britain's Got Talent), I have come to the conclusion Simon is first about creating a buzz, and buzz means ATTENTION. Australian Idol has a similar judge who, although lacking Simon's extraordinary persona, also liked to create controversy and attention for the show by, for example, telling a popular female contestant (who came 4th in the first series) that she needed to lose a couple of pounds or wear something more suitable. The audience was SHOCKED, and the media went into a frenzy the next day, with most TV channels covering the incident and women's groups snarling at the judge. I have no doubt in my mind that the judge himself didn't for one moment intend to hurt the contestant over an issue such as weight, he himself had two teenage daughters at the time. His only intention was to create attention for the show, and it worked, and the 'incident' even became an ongoing gag during the Idol tour for that year.

As I said, the bottom line was always about $$$, and Simon had already been through the Pop Idol experience, the first Idol show in the UK, where the winner was gay and a huge success. Simon himself has always shrugged his shoulders at gay implications, reminding people this wasn't the 'dark ages' (my term, not his, but the context is the same).

[canfly172]

hee canfly I think that would win some sort of award...well if we gave out awards.

Just be grateful that she didn't bring over 3 page explanations of something. It's a wonder she doesn't have carpal tunnel.

I actually kinda think that I do...but it's more the little broken bone in my left wrist that bothers me cuz I don't use a mouse with my laptop, so I use my left wrist a lot, lol.

Good God, she done posted again. What a blabbermouth.

:finger:

I have to head to bed now because I have to get up tomorrow at 6am, which is an ungodly hour for someone like me, but wanted to let you know I was still alive. Finished my finals- got 2 A's and 2 B's for the semester, yay me- and I've been moving for what seems like the last 6 months but has only been a month. That includes painting and all that wonderful stuff, which is why I haven't been around. Between school, work, and moving, I'm exhausted. Thank goodness for summer break.

After all of the insults, I suppose that you're expecting some sort of congratulations for the marks and a :therethere for all of the moving shit and painting that you've had to do?

I think most people assumed Simon meant "gay" when he said "Broadway".

Who is "most people"? It never occurred to me and I'm pretty sure that it never occurred to most people because unless you were on the boards at the time (which I wasn't cuz while I was watching, I didn't have internet), you would never have heard any gay implications or questions...until near the end if you had happened to catch the right interview with the gay question. First time I heard any "gay question" was well after when I found DVDs for sale on ebay of TV stuff and got to watch the Diane Sawyer interview...sometime in either late 2003 or early 2004. Don't hit me for buying clack on ebay OK? I knew nothing about downloads until sometime after I got my first laptop in March 2004. Point is that it never once occurred to me that Clay might be gay, nor did I know that there was any question until I heard Diane Sawyer ask it.

re: Simon just trying to create "buzz'. He's seemed quite different this year than in the past because for whatever reason, they must have decided that the act was OTT. I would have sworn that Simon and Ryan hated each other last year and the year before yet this year, there is really none of that.

If you re-watch AI2, Simon also made a lot of complimentary comments towards Clay. I think a lot of his "mean" comments were intended to "test" contestants to see how they would react to harsh criticism. Clay passed with flying colours. Simon complimented him on that after and said that he took criticism like a grown-up vs Josh, who didn't.

[djs111]

Who is "most people"? It never occurred to me and I'm pretty sure that it never occurred to most people because unless you were on the boards at the time (which I wasn't cuz while I was watching, I didn't have internet), you would never have heard any gay implications or questions...until near the end if you had happened to catch the right interview with the question.

Yep, sorry, I am referring to the boards. A lot of us were ultra-sensitive about Clay.

And we caught ALL the interviews. And vaulted them. And dissected them.

Also, "most people" who mentioned Clay to me who were not fans seemed weirdly and compulsively compelled to mention that Clay was obviously gay. Family, friends, work acquaintances, wide variety of people.

A few years back I shared an office cubicle (IT work) with two adorable Indian guys - one older, married, the other younger, single - and a woman who was the most negative and judgmental person I have ever had the misfortune to have known. NOTHING was exempt from a scathing remark.

When they asked me what I was doing on the next weekend, I said Clay Aiken concert.

Older guy - oh I love his voice but he is gay.

Younger guy - he has a nice voice

Happiness-sucking beeyotch - never heard of him. So she googled. And brayed at the top of her lungs - Look at him!!!! He is gay gay gay!

I just asked what that had to do with anything - no answer.

And the media had already started with the gay rumours.

So we have just had different experiences.

[muskifest]

I've always entertained the possibility that Clay was gay...but it never stopped me from my fantasies, fo' sho'.

Anyhoo...we actually had to bring in the fan from the garage and..(GULP!) turn it ON here in the SF Bay Area today...and it's supposed to be even hotter tomorrow. Of course, this news is most likely a kick in the nuts for those who regularly MUST live with air conditioning. We don't even have AC in our house! I think hubby and I are going to the movies tomorrow to beat the heat...

It's weird without my Carrie in the house. She's on a school trip to Wash. DC and won't be back for a week... And an era ended today when my older daughter, Alex, played her last soccer game for the team she's been with forever. She started playing when she was 6 years old...not with THIS group of girls, but with some who ended up on this team with her a few years back. They're all off to college in the fall....

Have a great weekend, everybody!

[canfly172]

I'm glad that I missed all of that shit djs111.

I just lived in my own little sheltered world where I re-watched my VCR tapes from the last 6 episodes (once I started recording) over and over...especially BOTW and Mack The Knife and I watched the "looking up my nostrils" and Brooke Burke making the Clay makes my heart go pitter patter stuff. No idea who Brooke Burke is but the name is emblazoned upon my memory, lol.

I was however totally devastated when I accidentally taped over the end of TITN on the Miss America Pageant, when I very quickly grabbed a tape to shove in the VCR when they announced that Clay would be singing the Star Spangled Banner during the World Series. I had no warning cuz like I said, I wasn't online at the time. I found about about him being on Oprah well after the fact and valiantly tried calling to see if I could get a tape (cuz they did make copies of episodes) but they wouldn't do THAT one because he was such big star and all...so some copyright thing.

I was so excited to find out that I could get that stuff on DVD. I had NO idea that there was a whole network of messageboards and clack sites.

ETA: I just saw your post about the heat Muski. We're supposed to get a real cold snap Sunday night with a risk of frost. That happens rarely for the May 2-4 weekend (that's Victoria Day in Canada...traditionally around May 24th but it's mostly pronounced May Two Four cuz it's apparently a good excuse to buy a Two Four of beer and go camping or partying). Sometimes it's decent but often it rains and sometimes it's cool.

High of 12 tomorrow and a low of -2 on Monday night. That's Celcius...not sure of the exact translation but 0C = 32F, so likely that's 31 or close to 30.

[djs111]

I'm glad that I missed all of that shit djs111.

The fun, friends, and snark on the boards more than made up for it, believe me.

Bolt Babes, Sucksters, PROCers, Broads, and on and on - it really was fun and also some very very funny laugh out loud stuff.

Alas, a lot of the snark is gone, too many people taking themselves too seriously or something. There is a lot of fun stuff stored in the public archives at the CH, tho.

And the sharing was, and is, just incredible.

[luckiest1]

I can't wait to see this new kitchen one day!

Soon, I will post "completed" pictures. Soon. When I finally get my f*^&* dishwasher and microwave installed. Soon. It's only been a month, there's no rushing these things.

IMO, Simon always used Broadway as a gay put-down back in Idol's heyday. I have no idea if he still does. Perhaps he has a clue now. You couldn't pay me to watch the show, even though I know many people who are raving about Adam Lambert. If he makes a go of things after Idol, I may check him out. That's the real test. I think it's silly if sites are "ranking" these kids against prior season's contestants before they even leave the freaking show.

The early days of my Clay fandom were discovering the clack (prior to the AI finale cuz by that point I'd discovered the boards and spoilers) and taping the episodes and special appearances on the VCR so I could make edited copies that included only Clay parts, heh. After that it became a few crazy years of attending as many concerts as I could with my daughter, generally 7 - 10 a year. I am glad that we went overboard and did so much (even if my Visa isn't).....I always told myself that I should take advantage of it because it could end anytime. I do believe that we still have much to look forward to but things are different now. I hope Clay announces something "soon" though so I have more to put on my calendar besides gala, which I am really, really, really looking forward to. Seems as though just about everyone in the fandom will be attending this year, with no tour on the horizon. Maybe tickets won't be as easy to come by as last year, but I'll find one, come hell or high water.

[aikim]

Good Morning Everyone,

I never thought Simon meant gay with the Broadway comment; but there were fans on the boards who did...I think he was just being honest...Clay did not fit the image of what they. American Idol, thought a pop star should be and he did/does have a voice perfectly suited for Broadway. I got raked over the coals pretty good for saying that at other boards, cuz, God forbid you ever agree with anything that Simon says.

1 Day until The NCT Awards!

152 Days until The BAF Gala!

Everyone have a great day!

Kim

[claytonic]

I don't understand why it isn't cool to agree with Simon. Sure there are times when he is off target but the guy is no idjit (who did I steal this word from? I love it....) he has uncanny instinct when it comes to what will "work" in the music industry. Just look at the success of the ".... " Got Talent, Idol and XFactor franchises plus a load of other projects he has been involved in; look at his brainchild, Il Divo.

I know we all love to hate Simon, but without Simon, the music landscape, as it is today, would look very different. I may not always like him, but I always respect his professional opinion.

[aikim]

Speaking only for myself...I don't hate Simon, or Kathy Griffin or Kelly Ripa or Conan O'Brian or anyone else were supposed to hate because they "did Clay wrong"...I may not like things they have said or done...in that case...I don't watch shows they are on and move on.

Never have understood the "grudge" mentality in the fandom...and I think it is kind of hypocritical that fans who are pulling out their hair and gnashing their teeth at the hate thrown at Clay...do the same thing to other celebrities...but of course, that is in defense of Clay so that is okay.

Clay is a celebrity...he is going to have jokes made about him...he is going to have things said in the NE about him...just like every other celebrity...it comes with the territory...you either have to learn to deal with it and let it roll off your back or you are going to spend inordinate amounts of time being angry and frustrated and life is too short to live that way.

Sorry for getting so heavy on an early Sunday morning, but this just hit a nerve with me.

Kim

[luckiest1]

Eh, I dislike Slimon and Kathy Griffin because I think they are worms, not just because they "did Clay wrong". Kelly Ripa is a ditz. Don't watch Conan so don't care much about him. To each his/her own is always my motto.

Hee, I'm watching Asheville clack and laughing my ass off at Clay's antics. Eeep, eeep, eeep! Bwah ha ha.

[djs111]

Eh, I dislike Slimon and Kathy Griffin because I think they are worms, not just because they "did Clay wrong". Kelly Ripa is a ditz. Don't watch Conan so don't care much about him. To each his/her own is always my motto.

Yep. Exactly.

The night Conan equated Clay being gay with pedophilia (kid cowering in a shower) ensured that I will always think Conan is an asshole. That is feeding hate and misconception for a cheap laugh. Didn't matter if it was about Clay, it was sick.

I don't get into any sort of "group think" about anyone.

If I think someone is a horse's ass, based on stuff they say about anyone, I don't really care what anybody else thinks, it is not relevant to my opinion, because we are all entitled to one, and no one is in charge or "right" for everybody else.

If I don't care for someone because they have said crappy things about Clay, it is because they said crappy things, it is indicative of their character, has not much to do with "defending Clay".

Simon sneering at idol's charity, for instance, sealed the deal for me. Of course, when AI had a charity and splashed it all over the TV, that was an a-okay "for the children". Don't like hypocrites, again, nothing to do with Clay per se.

I don't understand why it isn't cool to agree with Simon. Sure there are times when he is off target but the guy is no idjit (who did I steal this word from? I love it....) he has uncanny instinct when it comes to what will "work" in the music industry. Just look at the success of the ".... " Got Talent, Idol and XFactor franchises plus a load of other projects he has been involved in; look at his brainchild, Il Divo.

I know we all love to hate Simon, but without Simon, the music landscape, as it is today, would look very different. I may not always like him, but I always respect his professional opinion.

But - everybody doesn't agree or disagree en masse - you can see that just by reading this page. I don't really think there is a "isn't cool" factor any more, that is a straw man. There is no "we all" - just look how many Clay fans seem to find more happiness in pointing out what they perceive as flaws.

Plus I find Il Divo boring, like a barbershop quartet that lasts all day. Very pretty, not distinctive. Yes it is popular with a lot of people, but Simon has nothing to do with why I don't care for it. That charge gets flung around quite a bit, as if music being subjective is a thing of the past. Makes the people saying that seem silly, really.

Anyhoo...we actually had to bring in the fan from the garage and..(GULP!) turn it ON here in the SF Bay Area today...and it's supposed to be even hotter tomorrow. Of course, this news is most likely a kick in the nuts for those who regularly MUST live with air conditioning.

Heeee.....I bet my definition of hot is different from yours! I can say, from my experience, that Florida is not as hot and humid as anywhere else I have lived - Philly, Illinois, North Carolina. Tokyo is a humid mess in the summer. Florida, not so bad.

Sunny Florida here - we won't be doing the costly air conditioning thing this year. BUT - we have discovered that cross-ventilation and ceiling fans and a couple of window fans make things quite pleasant, and the air is fresher and dust does not get endlessly recycled. And no worries about open doors and windows wasting electricity.

Years ago I was looking through the John James Audobon house in Key West - he slept there, evidently - and the only part of the house that was air-conditioned was the room with his paintings. The house was filled with beautiful wooden antique furniture. I asked the docent if the heat and humidity was not bad for the wood, because everything looked so lovely, and she said it is when you air-condition only part of the time that it is bad, it is the changes that hurt the wood.

[merrieeee]

I save my hate for people who have personally done me or my family/freinds wrong! However I do dislike KR, KG and their ilk! I don't think it is neccesary to bring down others for any reason and especially just to get a cheap laugh.

Simon is only interested in things that he in essence brought to life. The problem as I see it is that he didn't see the potential in Clay at the beginning and IMO would didn't support him because of that. Oh he saw a good singer but couldn't figure out how to mould him into what he saw as a commercial viability.

Yeah he's good at manufacturing singers and groups and "discovering" them but if he didn't well it's bye bye!

[KAndre]

Hell, I agree with Simon most of the time - but when I think he's wrong, it's usually spectacular...and frankly his whole schtick is to be polarizing and OTT and to get those reactions from viewers. I always thought in the context of AI and was they were looking for (especially in the early seasons) the Broadway thing was both a gay implication and a way of saying noncommercial. Compared to general pop stardom, Broadway stardom currently is very much a niche market - and Broadway, at least in the States has always been something of a gay haven. And frankly Simon has never claimed to be looking for an artist - he's always been looking for someone with commercial success. Simon is very successful in a very derivative way (can't stand Il Divo but loved Amici Forever). But derivative works in this culture.

Kathy Griffin I disliked long before Clay (she was in some TV show with Brooke Shields I think). She reminds me too much of that blond bitch who makes a living putting people down and has had enough plastic surgery to make 15 million Barbies, Joan Rivers.

I still can't get past the numbers in the fandom who still seem to worry that things are "cool" or not. But then, I've never really got the concept. I just know what I like. If others like it, fine; if they don't, also fine; if the hoi polloi think it's wonderful, even better.

[jamar1700]

I don't get into any sort of "group think" about anyone.

If I think someone is a horse's ass, based on stuff they say about anyone, I don't really care what anybody else thinks, it is not relevant to my opinion, because we are all entitled to one, and no one is in charge or "right" for everybody else.

Well...I was gonna say a bunch of stuff but this pretty much covers it.

So I'll just say

I always thought in the context of AI and was they were looking for (especially in the early seasons) the Broadway thing was both a gay implication and a way of saying noncommercial.

And I wasn't on the boards during the run of the show and that is most defintely the message I got.

I don't understand why it isn't cool to agree with Simon.

Well I don't get to decide what's cool for you or anyone else...but if you agree with Simon and choose to say so, more power to you. But we all form our own opinions based on our own experiences and we may also choose to share them.

---

One of the main reasons I stopped watching the show around the 5th season was I got very bored with the Simon character, and the Ryan character et. al. That is the way they came off to me. As characters in a show. I just didn't have the desire to sit there and watch the same show year after year. Especially since I do just fine finding artists that I like on my own.

[aikim]

New UM Clack in the CV vault.

Kim

[claytonic]

But - everybody doesn't agree or disagree en masse - you can see that just by reading this page. I don't really think there is a "isn't cool" factor any more, that is a straw man. There is no "we all" - just look how many Clay fans seem to find more happiness in pointing out what they perceive as flaws.

Actually, I wasn't necessarily talking about the fandom, I just happen to come across too many people who seem to go out of their way to disagree with Simon. And they are entitled to their opinion ... some of them remind me of people who are full of criticism of the government, yet they have no ideas on how to fix the problems faced by politicians.

Plus I find Il Divo boring, like a barbershop quartet that lasts all day. Very pretty, not distinctive. Yes it is popular with a lot of people, but Simon has nothing to do with why I don't care for it. That charge gets flung around quite a bit, as if music being subjective is a thing of the past. Makes the people saying that seem silly, really.

Of COURSE music is subjective!!! I personally don't know a single person who would disagree with that.

Well, the example given (Il Divo) wasn't to prove anything except that Simon has an instinct for what works commercially. I can never forget how he predicted that not only would Carrie Underwood win season #4 but that she would outsell everyone else. I didn't think Carrie could beat Bo Bice, so I was amazed when she won, and now it seems she could pass Kelly Clarkson. I don't think Simon particularly liked country either, but that didn't get in the way of his vision for commercial success. That is all I am saying.

I should probably be a little clearer. Because of the job I previously had, I came to the conclusion that all music was good if it was uplifting and moved people. I knew a few closet ABBA fans who felt it was not cool to admit they liked ABBA. (ABBA was huge in Oz) At that time, I had some friends who were ONLY into classical music and looked down on any other forms of music. I found the whole thing ridiculous, I was never ashamed to state what I liked. While I have always like classical music, there is some classical stuff that I just can't listen to because it is depressing and/or jarring to me.

Well I don't get to decide what's cool for you or anyone else...but if you agree with Simon and choose to say so, more power to you. But we all form our own opinions based on our own experiences and we may also choose to share them.

That's stating the obvious.

[djs111]

Of COURSE music is subjective!!! I personally don't know a single person who would disagree with that.

Bwah! Just for one example, I have been told I don't like Josh Groban because I am being "faithful" to Clay. By a single person, in person, although I have seen that sentiment expressed on the internet.

I used Il Divo as just an example, too - they are just not my cuppa, Simon has had many triumphs of musical finds, but I rarely want to buy anything by them. I shudder to think what he may do with Susan Boyle. I guess I would invest in some of Simon's picks, but I would not buy them.

some of them remind me of people who are full of criticism of the government, yet they have no ideas on how to fix the problems faced by politicians.

The alternative is to say nothing. And that would be wrong. I feel dissent with what one thinks is wrong is actually needed.

From what I see, we express ourselves with our votes, it takes a while, bit complaining does further the dialogue. And a lot of the complaints I see do express alternatives.

For the first time in my life, for instance, I have no idea how I want to vote next time.

And politicians do take note of widespread complaints - if only because they want desperately to be reelected.

While I have always like classical music, there is some classical stuff that I just can't listen to because it is depressing and/or jarring to me.

Oh, hey, I love Placido Domingo and Jose Carreras, but don't care for Pavarotti. The Flower Song is irritating, but a well-done Nessun Dorma brings me to tears every time.