# 12 An Evening With His Royal Highness Fantasy Fodder

[Gibby]

I don't know who photoshopped this pic, but it sure is nice. I would have a VERY difficult time restraining myself if I were to see this on a plane. He looks so yummy!

[ldyjocelyn]

I don't think the feet, and other corresponding body parts, are big enough...

[keepingfaith]

I don't think the feet, and other corresponding body parts, are big enough...

Girl, I don't know. That big toe looks pretty danged impressive to me. So photoshop or not, I'm saving it.

[muskifest]

Girl, I don't know. That big toe looks pretty danged impressive to me. So photoshop or not, I'm saving it.

BWAH! :lmaosmiley-1:

I'm in my new office! Just finished getting enough crap out of boxes to get some real work done...still have some boxes to go, but...

I'm CLACK deprived! It's been DAYS since I watched some Clay movin' and singin' and jabberin' and thrustin' and such...

Hey, today is dear hubby's birthday! He told me that he didn't need a present after this weekend watching Carrie do her thing....

[playbiller]

dayS or day?

[jmh123]

Still smiling about Clay loving that TV medley and theme songs. I don't know why I'm so tickled. I think because it's the Clay I love. No matter how much we try to explain him away - it's amazing how the Clive made me do it I see in comments that explain away his choices - and then he turns around and does TV theme song medley and it's one of his favorite things. That wasn't forced on him and it's chessier than anything on ATDW and that's my Clay. God I love him.

Yup - and even though some vocal fans have vocally condemned it, he just keeps on keeping on. That's my Clay too!!!!

couchie, I think the reason Clay loves the TV theme songs medely so much is becasue it "means something" to him. Unlike many (not all) of the covers on ATDW.

Silly me, I think many of the covers on ATDW mean something to him too.

But rest assured, the poddies will find something to angst about and ways to spin it. Yadda Yadda Yadda.........*g*

Hey! As this board's token poddie, I have to say that my only angst at the moment is that I'd like the new CD sooner rather than later, but that I'm willing to wait for what Clay wants to give us. Patiently. Sort of.

Proud to have you as our "resident poddie", artquest. You've really got to work on your angsting though--you have entirely too much fun with this fandom to be a proper poddie.

LOL Artquest is just masquerading as a poddie..

BWAH!!

Anyway, Clayzor, you hit the nail on the head. Clay talking more to fans is GREAT because frankly it gets his truth out there. I dont care if it bursts any of my own bubbles although I can't think of a thing that I have been spouting FOR him anyway. He has certainly so far made me realize more than ever that I don't know squat about what he wants and I just roll my eyes at people who talk like they do and write their instructional posts as if they speak for him and you need to recognize. As for myself, I've had some notions that I've already discovered are wrong.and it cracks me up.

But I'm glad he clarified his position on RCA because frankly that's the one area that really bothered me. Some peoples seemed surprised to find out Clay was still with RCA a few months ago although there had never been any indication to me that he was leaving. Of course nobody remembers saying he was going to leave RCA; they were just speculating. Except I know speculation when I see it and people I respected, or used to, made inferences more than once that he was with Warner..not hoped he was there, but acted like he was already there, or it was a matter of time until the announcement..In this case it didn't even matter to me whether it was true or not. If it was, then they were famehoing with their posts. And if it wasn't then they caused undue angst in the fandom. I no longer read their posts and god forgive me if I read something that wasn't there but I have pretty good reading comprehension. Yes, I can be a bitch. Sorry if that is news to anyone.

But I think in general, with Clay around, everything is much better, happier, calmer. In the absence of information, people just make up stuff and are able to cause angst. . That's not possible anymore for the most part. And that's great. and as a result I'm enjoying the fandom these days.

I think I might want to be couchie's minion!!

Not just inferences, couchie... outright lies. Manipulative outright doozies. Very amusing fiction, some of it. I had a whole pile of them directed right to me until I cut them off with the truth... and suddenly I was no longer seen as a viable conduit. But I did earn a featured spot in a very special blog story. LOL! Like I give shit one what any liar thinks of me. Send me a straight up bitch anyday. Face value, I can deal with. Manipulation, lies, and disrespect for an entire community... zero tolerance.

WORD!! Can you be two different people's minion at once?

Lover All Alone in the rain at Canandaigua is the single best moment thus far in my fandom. I doubt it will ever be recreated, and it was a privilege to be there.

It was unbelieveable. The rain was just pouring down in sheets, and the venue was so quiet you could hear it pouring, and there's this deeply moving, haunting melody. Sigh.

As a teacher, its my natural tendency to correct mistakes, and to help people understand information. It seems to me that Clay's been trying to do the same thing.

Yup, and it seems that people aren't really listening, unless he says what they want to hear. As a teacher myself, I've always taught my students to use their critical thinking skills to judge what they read and make up their own minds what to think. Using those skills myself, I find it easy to be skeptical about sources that have said:

1) Clay's changing record labels, and RCA is trying to devalue him so he won't do well once he does.

2) Clay won't sing songs from ATDW on tour because he hates the album that much (it'll be like "Touch"), but he will sing songs from the new album to be released this past spring.

3) OK he has to sing songs from ATDW, because RCA is making him do it, but he won't SAY the name of the album and he certainly won't promote it

and so on....

I guess too, and I'll just speak for myself, what is gained if we only look back and point fingers, whether those fingers are pointed at Clive Davis or other Clay fans? I love the CD and I won't apologize for it. I think Clay was actually proud of his product, but once he'd read a lot of the "fan" reaction and complaining, I'm not surprised he refered to it as a coaster.

Yes, it was his sophomore CD, and covers aren't usually what one would expect. Maybe Clive's idea backfired, but was it really such a stupid idea? After all, Rod did it, it sold well, Barry did it, it sold well and these guys can't even sing anymore. Michael Buble is doing it. What would happen if someone with a voice like Clay Aiken did it, after all, his fans fell in love with him singing covers?......I can see that thought process and I don't have to see malice in it. I actually have seen a lot more malice coming from fans. That's my point of view, I think some others share it, some don't.

Yep, we all process information differently, What I saw happening during the release of ATDW made me want to spend a lot less time on the boards. I wanted to be celebrating just having a new CD and that became very hard to do while reading some of the larger boards. I came here, I don't think we have our heads in the sand, we just know how to enjoy our fandom.

Furthermore, I blame part of the less than stellar sales of ADTW squarely on the fans--I've heard non fans say, "Well, I heard his fans didn't even like it, so it must not be very good." That whole album thread campaign to "protect" and "support" Clay was the stupidest, most misguided piece of shit crap fan PR effort I've ever seen.

I find this part interesting. It actually could fit with a theory I have long held, one that disputes the gun-to-his-head "mandate" theory. Essentially my theory is this: He and Jaymes presented all they had recorded - including some covers - to Clive. He wasn't thrilled with any of it. Frankly I never thought Clay sounded like it was thrilled with much of it. Per one of Clay's blogs a discussion ensued about the kind of songs Clay likes to sing and he said singer's songs and the ones he enjoyed the most from what they had recorded tended to be the covers. So Clive - noting the success of Rod Stewart and *gag* Barry Manilow came up with the idea of doing a covers album. Clay naturally objected for obvious reasons but Clive pointed out that the alternative was he and Jaymes starting from scratch on an album of originals which could take a really long time and it had already been a really long time. So Clay decided to go with the covers idea rather than wait. This time, though, he would rather wait.

Makes sense to me! Probably not accurate, but if others can extrapolate why not me!

Pretty much the way I see it, FWIW.

This is what I don't understand. If Clive wanted to ruin Clay, make him become the next Rod Stewart or Barry Manilow, box him into a Michael Buble corner, then why did he allow Clay to go find his own EP (Jaymes Foster) and spend, or waste a year of the label's time and money, looking for and recording new songs? Why wouldn't he just tell Clay right from the get go he was going to do a cd of cover songs, like it or not? Why allow him to waste all that time and go through the motions? Why not just give Clay the list of cover songs he wanted him to sing on ATDW, and tell him to get your ass in the recording studio and "Get 'er done?"

Not to mention that he allowed Clay to go back and (re?) record those covers using his own choices of producers, arrangements, and so forth, even though it delayed the album by months and they lost the window of AI5 buzz.

Is this anntherese54's recap? 'Cause it is being posted over at the OFC that she gave details of a "horrible ultimatum" that RCA/Clive gave Clay (no longer a mandate) of "three years"...??? I am confused....

I read that too lightmyfire. I didn't see anything in that M&G recap that supports her claims. Some people just have to be right at all cost. Even if they have to spin everything to make it fit their theories.

Speaking of which....

The main point in all of this is that Clay didn't WANT to do a cover album!!! How is it you don't get that? With everything he's said here and there, how is it possible that he's still being deliberately misunderstood? When he calls ATDW a 'coaster', isn't it obvious that he doesn't have warm, fuzzy feelings about it?

Funny, but I didn't read a single post here that said he did want to do covers. He even said he didn't. So duh! However, I disagree completely that he doesn't have warm, fuzzy feelings about the album. I do think a lot of his positive feelings for the album were severely dampened by the fans' reactions, supposedly in the name of supporting him.

Furthermore, I think if ADTW had sold as much as MOAM had, a lot of fans (not all) who claim not to like it would be loving it. I haven't forgotten the initial reactions to MOAM--lousy production, voice sounds weird and not like Clay, canned instrumentation and so on. I didn't care for MOAM much at first, until Clay sold it to me with his live performances and the arrangements he worked out with his band. Great songs though. And, IIRC, those songs from the hallowed, now perfect and almighty greatest album EVAH were chosen by a guy named Clive Davis.

(where's that banging on the coke machine emoticon when you need it?)

Heh, my belief - which pod people seem to not recognize - is that we don't know sooooo much more than we know. I want to be a FAN - so I come to the board where FANS come to PLAY! (little joke there). I have to admit I had a wonderful time at the concerts because I went with other FANS - Like the EHP and my sister. Where we oohed over Clay, talked about how great Clay was and how great the seats were and how great the venue was , etc. ....

I am not and nor do I want to be Clay's mother, manager, promotor, public relations. I just want to be a FAN - what is so hard to understand about that?

I resent people who want me to worry about Clay. to run Clay's life or career. I hate that, it interferes with my FANdom. You see, my job is to be a fan, to buy fan stuff, listen to music and to attend concerts and watch TV shows.

Preach it sistah!!

And I wouldn't be surprised to learn the demo material coming in geared itself to the CCM market. And that was not going to fly. JMO.

Exactly. I've been saying this for a long time. And a lot of the same fans whining about the covers album (and who seem to have forgotten how badly they ripped apart most of the "new songs" from the JBT, and Jaymes Foster) would've been hating on the album of originals just as loudly.

[YSRN]

From CV:

QUOTE(misschris @ Jul 23 2007, 03:34 PM) *

Speaking of CB, member there says they met a meet and greeter from Canadaigua. They were told that the spray tan and no hair has to do with the future and we will know in a month what it is about.

So Clay tells and expects us to wait a month. He is very trusting. And he was also bruised. Hmm I wonder if he shot something for TV or a commercial.

Or a photoshoot. Or calendar?

This is some new information. Yes it is driving me crazy. Anyone? Guess?

Photoshoots are photoshopped all the time. Why does his entire body have to be tan? I am thinking it was something that was filmed then.

Guesses anyone?

And lookie here, Kelly was manipulated, mandated, forced, blackmailed apologized to Clive. While I'm certain this is the work of some PR spinmeister somewhere and mostly bullshit, I'm pretty sure there was no loaded gun involved... Just like I think the "fight" (hers) was the same thing. PR, spin, and bullshit. Wee. The circles keep a turnin'.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,290458,00.html

Kelly Clarkson Apologizes to Clive Davis

Kelly Clarkson is setting the record straight about her record — and her career.

In a posting just added to the front page of her Web site, Clarkson takes great pains to apologize to BMG North America chairman Clive Davis for comments she made about him regarding her struggling album, “My December.”

Click here to read the posting.

Clarkson says: “A lot has been made in the press about my relationship with Clive. Much of this has been blown way out of proportion and taken out of context.”

Davis, she says, "is one of the great record men of all time. He has been a key advisor and has been an important force in my success to date. He has also given me respect by releasing my new album when he was not obligated to do so. I really regret how this has turned out and I apologize to those whom I have done disservice.”

The statement also emphasizes that she wants “my band, my advisors, those close to me and my record label to be one big, tightly knit family. Like any family we will disagree and argue sometimes but, in the end, it's respect and admiration that will keep us together.”

It’s no surprise that Clarkson is in a quick retrenchment mode. “My December” sold about 41,000 copies in the last week, bringing the total to just about half a million. That’s a disaster when compared to Clarkson’s last CD, “Breakaway,” which sold millions and launched several hits including the blockbuster “Since You’ve Been Gone.” Clarkson’s single from “My December” has still logged an impressive 875,000 downloads.

But “My December” is not a singles-oriented album, so it’s not getting much airplay. On top of that, Clarkson was forced to fire her manager, Jeff Kwatinetz, of the Firm, replace him with country superstar Reba McIntyre’s husband and cancel her planned tour. Considering the time and money that are supposed to go into putting together an album release (marketing, etc.) these days, these results are catastrophic.

This column thought that Clarkson could perhaps add some more radio-friendly tracks and re-release “My December” in the fall. But insiders at RCA Records, her label, say that’s unlikely. “My December” is going to run its course, I’m told, and then fade into record business history as an interesting mistake.

Edited July 23, 2007 by YSRN

[Clayzorback]

Posthoing....found by CAP at CV, an article for tonight's show from The Oakland Press:

Interesting that he's talking about boxes...

I love him so very much. (I like being schmoopie too institches....but I think you knew that....)

Thanks for posting that ldyjocelyn. It sure sounds like Clay doesn't want to be boxed in as just a singer. He is so multi talented isn't he? I think he can do just about anything he wants if he puts his mind to it. I think he has been using this tour as a platform to practice, a bit, for TV. LOL Mastering and polishing his comedic skills.

What I found interesting was the mention that ATDW was a spin off of his JBT. It sure seemed, to me, that that played a part of the covers cd, big time.

This is from the transcript of Larry King Live on September 27, 2006:

AIKEN: "Lover All Alone" was actually a song that David Foster wrote the music to about six, seven months ago and he gave me the music and he said write some lyrics to this. And I have never written anything, you know, like that in my life. And so I thought to myself, we'll try it. And I finally sat down one day maybe five months later and took a crack at it and came up with this. And what ended up coming out of that was something a little more depressing than the album intended. You know, we wanted to do a love song album and "Lover All Alone" is not...

KING: ... Too sad.

AIKEN: A little too sad.

Unless Clay has absolutely no concept of time and space, I think it's pretty clear that Lover All Alone was not on the 2005 album ~~ which may or may not have ever existed. I tend to think that Jaymes and Clay presented to Clive what they considered to be the best tracks they had recorded, and Clive didn't think they were good enough ... not that Clay wasn't good enough, but that the songs weren't good enough. According to Clay's timeline above, David Foster would have given him the CD of the LAA melody around January-February 2006, and Clay would have penned the lyrics and recorded in June-July 2006. I do recall that in Jaymes' blog of July 17, 2006, she said that the album had finally been completed the night before. This could have been the recording of LAA.

I know I'm being a little devil here. And I don't mean to rub salt into fresh wounds about BFM, but I'm really glad that Clay didn't like that song. It very much reinforces my feelings about his musical instincts.

One note: I was at the airport yesterday, passing the time waiting for another delayed flight, and was reading a Blender magazine left on the seat next to me with Kelly's picture on the front. Kelly explains the confrontation with Clive by saying that he told her he didn't like her songs .... and Kelly told him, "You're 74 years old! You're not supposed to like this kind of music!" She's got some brass ones, that girl!

I think the recording process will get smoother and easier as time goes by. Clay felt extraordinary pressure for his sophomore album, and was pretty clear that he didn't think they had the caliber of songs he wanted to sing. I know he didn't want a covers album, and actually I don't think it would have been Clive's first choice either. It was a matter of time because of the need to get something out there. I think that if anything mandated a covers album in 2006, it was the success of the JBT in 2005. I think that's the reason for the backup plan when the originals on track weren't lighting anyone's fire. Clay said that they originally were going to go with loves song covers from the 1950's. JBT all the way, IMO.

Anyway, I'm loving this tour so danged much that it has revitalized ATDW for me -- and I already loved it immensely. But now I listen to TOA over and over and over. And Without You freshly blows me away. Everything he sings in concert are now the ones I MUST hear. And while RHW, LNM, BW and EID were big favorites, I don't feel compelled to listen to them as much as the ones Clay is singing now. I think the label should release TOA as an AC single. I like that it doesn't have a piano intro, that it is dramatic, has excellent lyrics and melody, a beautiful string arrangement, and that Clay sings it like no other ever could.

Thanks keepingfaith for presenting a timeline for LAA. You are on the same wave length as me with your feelings about things. Only you verbalize it better than I do. *g* :F_05BL17blowkiss:

I believe the time line tells the story of ATDW. JMO..

Kelly played the ageism card and in the words of YSRN..It's really unbecoming. JMO.

And I wouldn't be surprised to learn the demo material coming in geared itself to the CCM market. And that was not going to fly. JMO.

kandre could be right that this is partly staged, hoping to help her sagging sales. I have wondered this myself. You know controversy sells? LOL

You touched on something that I have been feeling. I have wondered if a lot of the original songs they presented to Clive had too much of a CCM feel to them. Either that or they were just too safe and boring. In lieu of Clay's statement, when asked if he would do a CCM album and he said that the label would not support that, I suspect this could be a real possibility. I think Clay feels pressured by his own moral beliefs and his fans to remain family friendly and be a role model. That probably limits his song choices tremendously.

I don't know who photoshopped this pic, but it sure is nice. I would have a VERY difficult time restraining myself if I were to see this on a plane. He looks so yummy!

Whoa. Thanks Gibby.

YSRN thanks for this. Long time no see Waldo.........

jmh123 it is funny isn't it? King of Cheese Clay just keeps on going no matter how much his fans do protest. I think Clay was very proud of ATDW and he clearly stated it was more like him than anything he has done. I can only imagine how crushed he was that some fans trashed it so badly and continue to do so to this day. They most certainly played a huge part in disappointing sales. I hope they are proud of themselves.

Great post and because I loved it so much here you go:

Have a good evening everyone and have fun to all our concert attendees tonight...............

[Kareneh]

That was some good cup of tea! But I'm back now. I have a cooling cup of Starbuck's coffee here to keep me company now and a bottle of water because WW says I HAVE to. I thought I would work on pix all day but so far......I haven't gotten around to it. I seem to be distracted by clack and the whole afterglow of being at concerts. I don't know what it is but when I get like this, there isn't much anyone can do to get me moving. I just want to sit here and enjoy all those moments over and over again. Probably by the weekend it will hit me that the California trip is only a few days away and I'll begin the scramble to get ready for that but dammit......I'm leaving for Asheville and Knoxville (and a month in Nova Scotia) two days after I get back from Indio. I think I'm going to have to get all that ready this week. That means a shitload of.......

wait for it........

....ironing.

The pix are going to have to wait.

Kidding.

Hee.

muski, Congrats to Carrie and the Blaze!! I loved your recap of the tournament. It just doesn't get any better than that. What a great and exciting weekend you guys had.

Oh, I knew ya'll would be ever so articulate while I slept!! And you were. Can we not get on some sort of same schedule here? Why must I be a night owl AND live in PST?!

YSRN, I had a hell of a time adjusting to central time when I moved to Houston from Atlantic Canada which is on Atlantic time and 2 hours later than central. I'm a night owl, too, and it wasn't as much fun being up anymore when most everyone was gone to bed. I still miss most prime time programing on TV because it starts at seven and not nine o'clock.

jmh123

QUOTE(cindilu2 @ Jul 22 2007, 09:36 PM) *

Lover All Alone in the rain at Canandaigua is the single best moment thus far in my fandom. I doubt it will ever be recreated, and it was a privilege to be there.

It was unbelieveable. The rain was just pouring down in sheets, and the venue was so quiet you could hear it pouring, and there's this deeply moving, haunting melody. Sigh.

Oh, it was sublime. You can hear the sound of the rain in the video, particularly jojo's and Clayfanin VA's. I wouldn't say it translates exactly as it was but I am so glad that it's there. I agree with cindilu2. It was my most magical moment ever, too.

I really wish I was in Sterling Heights tonight! I was so close (Toronto) two days ago. I should have hung around....sigh.....so what if I'm only going to see my husband for 12 more days until Labor Day weekend......sigh Labor Day isn't that far away is it?

I think I'll banish that thought. This tour will be all over by Labor Day and that makes me sad. In the meantime, I'll be happy. And happy for everyone who's going to tonight's concert. Enjoy!!

I'll get back to work...

Oh.....and I think I'll put the kettle on.

Edited July 23, 2007 by Karen Eh?

[Claygasm]

Its the end of the day. My boss has left and I immediately had to sneak on to see what's happening at FCA!! I so miss not being able to be here during the day!

Ah huskerfalcon!! I loved meeting you and encouraged you to post your strong opinions here because I too have strong opinions. And you know what? I still want you to post here and I still loved meeting you and hope we can meet again.

But..... I was told often in my early posting days that its not so much what you say but how you say it that rubs some the wrong way. While I disagree with much of what you said, what got me upset when reading it was the way it implied those who disagreed with you were WRONG (and possibly stupid) when in fact your opinion is just that - your opinion. As an opinion it has as much validity as anyone else's. But it is not known fact. Unless I am wrong, you never sat in on the meetings with Clay, Jaymes and Clive nor have ever shared any intimate conversations with Clay about this. I don't know your sources, but if there is one thing I have learned over the past year, "insider" information can sometimes be full of crap. I just wish you had expressed your strong opinion as opinion and not as someone correcting those of us with differing opinions because we are wrong.

But I still love ya!

I don't think there is anyone who believes Clay's first choice for his sophomore album was a cover's album. But I personally do not take what Clay supposedly said at the M&G as blackmail. My interpretation, and the interpretation of some who were there, was not that it was a covers CD or else sit around doing nothing for 3 years, but rather it was do a cover CD if you want something out in 2006 or else you will have to start from scratch and that could take a long time to get an album out. I think the 3 years was an arbitrary number he used, not a mandate (there's that nasty word again!) from the label.

JMO and all that.

Oh, and all the evidence points to LAA NOT being among the material first presented to Clive as I don't believe he even had the music yet. This is based on Clay's words so I choose to believe he's right.

As for the coaster thing.... He seems to like than analogy because he also called LTS a coaster!

Silly boy.

Claygasm, so you're a Phillies fan, were you a fan when Mick Schmidt played for them? I went to high school with him. Nice guy.

Mike Schmidt was one of my very favorite Phillies!! He and Steve Carlton. In fact, I was lucky enough to attend both their Hall of Fame induction ceromonies! Tim McCarver was a client of mine and he got me tickets - in the VIP section no less!

Ah the brief glory days of the Phillies!

KAndre - once again you show why I became your minion!

Muski - you have me rooting really hard for the Blaze - and especially for Carrie. It breaks my heart to think you won't be at some, or even all, the California shows. Here I thought finally I would be on your coast with you to see Clay rather than the usual other way around! But if you have to miss any - or even all - at least its for a very, very good reason!

Go Blaze!

Now I must go home!

[jmh123]

I'll get back to work...

Oh.....and I think I'll put the kettle on.

Well that was worth waiting for. My my my my my my my.

[JennaZ]

Great posts, everyone!

If others feel the need to see Clay as a victim, to spend their days fuming at RCA, or to wallow in misery and worry, so be it. That's their right. That's their fandom. Personally, even if the relationship between Clay and his label were worse than I believed, there really isn't anything I could do about it. And in fact, it's my understanding from recent M&G comments that he doesn't want fans to do anything more than buy his album. I choose to (horror of horrors) take him at his word.

Jmh, great list of things that have been promulgated as "fact."

Very interesting apology from Miss Clarkson. No doubt, some will claim it's staged, but I do think her situation shows what might happen when an artist doesn't listen to her label. Her fans may disagree, but IMHO, her songs haven't soared due to lack of label support. I think they're just too dark and bitter, and not as good. She probably would have benefited from more time - but she held her ground - and had to bear the consequences.

ETA more on Kelly: I actually do think that she's apologizing because she and/or her new manager realized that ranting against RCA/Clive Davis did not help her situation, and because it's beginning to seem as though her artistic choices did not turn out to be as profitable as she thought they'd be. I don't believe her battles with Clive were invented to sell albums. I wouldn't be surprised if she once thought it gave her more rock cred ("fight the power, man!"). But I do think she thought she was right. Maybe she thinks the apology will lead to more money for radio support. It will be interesting to see what, if anything, happens after this. Like I said before, I think her problem wasn't just the label. I think it was the music.

As for Clay - here's my theory: I suspect he has more than just 5th Grader and the skating show in the works. I think he did tape something for television, something we won't see until later.

My gut says that Clay recognizes that in some ways, he's more a product of television than radio. In fact, I'd even venture to say that he has better professional relationships in TV than in music. I would not be surprised if he is making a serious effort to break into television in a major way. This could be brilliant. If he can establish himself in TV, the radioplay could follow. It's not the standard route, but he's not your standard artist.

I mean, this is pure speculation. However, we all know what a TV fan he is...

Edited July 23, 2007 by JennaZ

[YSRN]

If others feel the need to see Clay as a victim, to spend their days fuming at RCA, or to wallow in misery and worry, so be it. That's their right. That's their fandom.

I do agree 100%. Everyone has the right to be a fan in whatever way they choose, IMO. Thank you for saying it better than I do. Or did. Or should.

As for Clay - here's my theory: I suspect he has more than just 5th Grader and the skating show in the works. I think he did tape something for television, something we won't see until later.

I think something like this too... but why hairless? And it was something that made him sore and bruised him? Did he mud wrestle with Kimmel or something? Was it for something comedic? Serious? A spot on Jericho? Did he survive a nuclear attack only to have all his body hair burned off in the explosion? What?

eta... I just realized that if all his body hair burned off... his clothes would have been burned off too... *ponders*

OMG, I just had flashbacks to Nothing But The Truth and a wicked sunburn!!! I never did finish that story. I wonder if anyone has it somewhere?

Would someone make me pack, please!?!

Mmmm, little beads of sweat by the nose. Yum.

*turns up the heat on that kettle*

Edited July 23, 2007 by YSRN

[playbiller]

I wish he had said more time than a month - if it was 2 months then it might have been an episode of Jericho - payback, babeeeeee

[KAndre]

Heh, "standing up against the man" Kelly isn't selling albums either, so we are going back to "I'm so lucky, I luv everybody, Clive is sweet for such an old dude, the establishment rulez!" Kelly.

See, I see this and I see PR - admittedly bad PR, but again meaningless spin. And neither the previous spin, nor the current spin makes me like Kelly's current output any better.

Or what JennaZ said in a much meaner way. To me, Kelly really is nothing much more than the current pop princess - for a while, wasn't some in the fandom using the Duffster as a benchmark? Not seeing a lot from her now are we? Kelly might be a better singer, but frankly I don't find her to be a better songwriter.

[jmh123]

ACK - I thought I'd lost it but it was here all along in an open window. Just as well, because it deserves to stand alone. This is the perfect summary of the whole album mess, IMO, in one sentence.

He's neither a victim or the master of the known universe who is entitled, let alone able, to have all he wants at all times.

Anyone who's interested in some really good posts about a lot of topics that are often debated should check out the Clay Chat thread where I found this post.

[keepingfaith]

You know, I just thought about a few people over at OFC who said a fews months back that they wouldn't even spend the money to see any of this tour if it was going to be predominantly ATDW songs. But of course they didn't believe he would sing more than a couple of songs from the album, but that he would sing new material from the album released back in the spring, and stuff off the album that never existed. A whole lot of people that really didn't like ATDW were certainly sure that he would sing BFM on this tour. Oh, that's rich! Hey, whatcha wanna bet they're all attending anyway?!

Thinking about the M&G report when someone asked Clay if the fans could put pressure on the label regarding his albums and Clay reportedly said to just buy them even if they're crap .... why does that CMSU in such a big way? It.just.does.

I love him.

A quick aside re Kelly. I think the PR for Kelly so far has been a trainwreck. I can't imagine this was any kind of professional stunt .... unless that's why she just fired her manager! If it was done to push albums, then it was cockamamie thinking, because I don't think it helped her at all, unless she was just trying to alert some of her preteen fans that maybe this one wouldn't be so interesting for them. I don't think an album of bitter songs appeals to anyone! And especially not other bitter people!!!! But in the spirit of full disclosure, I've never listened to the entire album ... I lost interest in it early.

[lightmyfire]

Great posts, everyone!

If others feel the need to see Clay as a victim, to spend their days fuming at RCA, or to wallow in misery and worry, so be it. That's their right. That's their fandom. Personally, even if the relationship between Clay and his label were worse than I believed, there really isn't anything I could do about it. And in fact, it's my understanding from recent M&G comments that he doesn't want fans to do anything more than buy his album. I choose to (horror of horrors) take him at his word.

Jmh, great list of things that have been promulgated as "fact."

Very interesting apology from Miss Clarkson. No doubt, some will claim it's staged, but I do think her situation shows what might happen when an artist doesn't listen to her label. Her fans may disagree, but IMHO, her songs haven't soared due to lack of label support. I think they're just too dark and bitter, and not as good. She probably would have benefited from more time - but she held her ground - and had to bear the consequences.

ETA more on Kelly: I actually do think that she's apologizing because she and/or her new manager realized that ranting against RCA/Clive Davis did not help her situation, and because it's beginning to seem as though her artistic choices did not turn out to be as profitable as she thought they'd be. I don't believe her battles with Clive were invented to sell albums. I wouldn't be surprised if she once thought it gave her more rock cred ("fight the power, man!"). But I do think she thought she was right. Maybe she thinks the apology will lead to more money for radio support. It will be interesting to see what, if anything, happens after this. Like I said before, I think her problem wasn't just the label. I think it was the music.

I agree JennaZ. I never believed this situation between Kelly and her label was a PR stunt or a publicity tool invented/structured to create hype. I believe it is the real deal. But, as you and I have opined previously, payola is over hyped and no amount of finances appropriated for radio support is gonna gain a spin if the PD refuses to spin the material. So, I don't view this apologetic statements as a strategic/tactical measure for label support to radio. Kelly carelessly played the ageism card, it backfired and her new founded management team is attempting to repair the damage to her image/reputation.

[muskifest]

OMG, I just had flashbacks to Nothing But The Truth and a wicked sunburn!!! I never did finish that story. I wonder if anyone has it somewhere?

Would someone make me pack, please!?!

Oooh, I'm flattered, YSRN! Interesting...I have that whole story printed out and it is one big sucker! At one time I started rereading it, with the express purpose of really, really editing and trying to make it better...I'd put about 50 chapters in a little binder and carry it around with me, my red pen flying over phrases and pages while riding to and from work on the bus...heh. I remember one person in particular on EAYOR who was horrified---HORRIFIED, I tell ya!---that I would dare write any harm to those lips in my story! (Oh, and I know that the whole story is still at EAYOR.---I never moved that humongous thing over to CV.)

So...another one here at the office bites the dust. Just got the word that a program associate gave her two weeks notice today. Why, you ask? She got a job at a school, but mainly---once again---it was because that WOMAN here, who was her immediate supervisor, made her life a living hell. Let's see---that's five people in two years that have left and given THAT WOMAN as a key, if not THE key reason for their resignation.

duh....think something should be done to kick THAT WOMAN out on her ass? duh. god.

I'll definitely be going in to propose a new job scope with appropriate and corresponding salary before the end of this week. Just had a meeting with the big boss and he was outlining the things he wants me to do, considering the loss of this person and that person. Fine. More money, please....and less bullshit about getting some help. Thank you.

I think something like this too... but why hairless? And it was something that made him sore and bruised him? Did he mud wrestle with Kimmel or something? Was it for something comedic? Serious? A spot on Jericho? Did he survive a nuclear attack only to have all his body hair burned off in the explosion? What?

eta... I just realized that if all his body hair burned off... his clothes would have been burned off too... *ponders*

This CMSU, YSRN! And I'm having a blast thinking up reasons for Clay's hairless and bruised state...oh yes, I am.

Wish I had time to write up a quick, dirty about it.....

Ok...off to work again. Is there a concert tonight? Wait...what should I care? It's hubby's birthday!

[YSRN]

I agree JennaZ. I never believed this situation between Kelly and her label was a PR stunt or a publicity tool invented/structured to create hype. I believe it is the real deal. But, as you and I have opined previously, payola is over hyped and no amount of finances appropriated for radio support is gonna gain a spin if the PD refuses to spin the material. So, I don't view this apologetic statements as a strategic/tactical measure for label support to radio. Kelly carelessly played the ageism card, it backfired and her new founded management team is attempting to repair the damage to her image/reputation.

Hmm... maybe not invented to create hype, but perhaps used and spun and accented to create hype. I can believe it happened, just like I believe Clay was told to do covers, but management can spin that anyway they want to make a point - as I believe we have proven over the past six months or so. The same story can be told six different way - the facts don't change, only the hyperbole.

Perhaps her old management chose this route (ala ultimatum, mandate, blackmail, fight, win) and Kelly balked, but it was already rolling, so it happened...and now her new found management is cleaning up?

*still not packing*

Edited July 23, 2007 by YSRN

[playbiller]

Here is the thing that I dont understand about the Kelly "fight" - after she fired her manager, she was still saying the same things, at times it seemed worse. I know some interviews were old, but others were new.

The whole phrasing seems quite stilted to my ears, so I wonder if it is pat of some sort of deal, like we won't beat your ass in public, kind of thing. As far as more money for radio - I think she had plenty of money for radio, you can't put lipstick on a pig and call it miss America, people just don't all likethe songs. There ahs already been a very expensive video, what more shouldthere be now?

Yay - another CLay night, - hoping good weather for all of you - this has been a strange year.

[JennaZ]

Here is the thing that I dont understand about the Kelly "fight" - after she fired her manager, she was still saying the same things, at times it seemed worse. I know some interviews were old, but others were new.

This makes me think it wasn't hype created by her old management, something she resisted, but something that actually happened, something she felt very comfortable discussing publicly. The media may have encouraged and exaggerated it (because its juicier to tell a story about Sweet Miss American Idol vs. The Big Bad Record Label), but she kept giving these quotes. I suspect she really believed that sales would justify her stance in the end.

Hmm.... What kind of role would cause Clay to shave, use tanner, and be bruised? You know, I could actually imagine him in Jericho as a kind of survivor, or sorts. Why shave? Well, if they had to apply make-up (of bruises, cuts, radiation marks, etc.), they might want a clean, smooth surface to work with. Bruising could result from some sort of physical action or stunt. The tanner...well, because he is kind of pale.

Or it could be comedic. A lot of physical comedy can be uncomfortable (pratfalls, etc.) Again, hair might be shaved if they wanted to apply something to the skin (like the Kimmel tatoo).

It will be fun to find out!

[lightmyfire]

I agree JennaZ. I never believed this situation between Kelly and her label was a PR stunt or a publicity tool invented/structured to create hype. I believe it is the real deal. But, as you and I have opined previously, payola is over hyped and no amount of finances appropriated for radio support is gonna gain a spin if the PD refuses to spin the material. So, I don't view this apologetic statements as a strategic/tactical measure for label support to radio. Kelly carelessly played the ageism card, it backfired and her new founded management team is attempting to repair the damage to her image/reputation.

Hmm... maybe not invented to create hype, but perhaps used and spun and accented to create hype. I can believe it happened, just like I believe Clay was told to do covers, but management can spin that anyway they want to make a point - as I believe we have proven over the past six months or so. The same story can be told six different way - the facts don't change, only the hyperbole.

Perhaps her old management chose this route (ala ultimatum, mandate, blackmail, fight, win) and Kelly balked, but it was already rolling, so it happened...and now her new found management is cleaning up?

*still not packing*

I believe the key to the entire Kelly/Clive situation is that her manager also played the role as Executive Producer to this effort. In my opinion, the WSJ pretty well hit the nail on the head in their piece.

[YSRN]

I believe the key to the entire Kelly/Clive situation is that her manager also played the role as Executive Producer to this effort. In my opinion, the WSJ pretty well hit the nail on the head in their piece.

I don't remember if I read that or not. I'll have to go hunt it down somewhere.

You know, to avoid packing.

Hee.

Thanks.

KarenEh... that's some serious traveling schedule you have going on. I'm only going to Boston, NH, Boston home in three days... LOL. I already miss my cute dogs! Wah!

[lightmyfire]

I believe the key to the entire Kelly/Clive situation is that her manager also played the role as Executive Producer to this effort. In my opinion, the WSJ pretty well hit the nail on the head in their piece.

I don't remember if I read that or not. I'll have to go hunt it down somewhere.

You know, to avoid packing.

Hee.

Thanks.

KarenEh... that's some serious traveling schedule you have going on. I'm only going to Boston, NH, Boston home in three days... LOL. I already miss my cute dogs! Wah!

You are welcome. I am multi-tasking...listening to the Democratic Debate and reading threads.

Have a safe trip tomorrow... :F_05BL17blowkiss: