#31: The Very Handsome Sir Clay of Aiken

[cindilu2]

Well, I'm gonna come down a teensy bit on the side of rohdy's daughter - sometimes money is NOT enough to make up for crazy. Or rude. Or completely and totally unreasonable. It costs money to deal with those people too (ah, the joys of working in a service industry). And from the last Houston concert, I've seen the crazy, the rude and the completely and totally unreasonable - and there was a LOT of stuff I wouldn't have put up with.

But that applies to every single portion of the service industry. I've worked with the public for 25+ years in the automotive field and I can tell you I've dealt with enough crazy, demanding and sometimes demented people to fill a venue (and a bigger one than Clio, lol). They put the crazy Claymates to shame. The public is whacked, y'all. It's not limited to Clay fans. ETA: but like the Clay fans, it's the small minority that you remember. Doesn't mean I can throw them out of the shop (the equivilent of ignoring the wants and needs of the customer because I may not like them, or even the product they're buying). Sometimes I feel like we buy into the image as much or more as any of 'them' do.

[merryclay]

I'm sad Spamalot is coming to an end. I bet he is too. For the first time in his professional life it seems he was accepted without question, innuendo, or gossip. He was just accepted because he is who he is: mad talented and a great guy.

CG... As I'm sitting here listening to The Prayer yet again, I have such a schmoopie feeling in my heart. You said something I have said many times. He has been totally accepted in Spamalot as he has been very few times in his life... with no pre-judging, just an acceptance of his massive... talent and his wonderful, sweet personality. They know what we know about him and that makes them very fortunate and smart folks.

I think this run in Spamalot has given him so much confidence and happiness, not just for what he has found he has in him to do, but to know he really does belong in such an incredible group of people. Now he really has a reason to ignore the bullies still in his life. He knows they don't matter even more than ever now.

God, I'm schmoopie tonight! This is just me, but I feel the fandom tried to get him to understand how lovable he is and how funny and mad-talented and he accepted that to a certain extent. To be loved and accepted as an equal by a group of people he considered mad-talented themselves, has, I think, made more firm what we have been trying to tell him for five years.

He has fought an uphill battle since his audition to be accepted for his talent and for who he is. Now he's found that in a Monty Python play on Broadway. Who'd of ever thunk it! I love that man and this journey we're on with him!

Told ya'.... schmoopie!

Word!!! Wouldn't it be nice if Hannah and Clay could perform that song at the Tony awards? Just dreaming. I will cry when Spamalot is over.

[KAndre]

Well, I'm gonna come down a teensy bit on the side of rohdy's daughter - sometimes money is NOT enough to make up for crazy. Or rude. Or completely and totally unreasonable. It costs money to deal with those people too (ah, the joys of working in a service industry). And from the last Houston concert, I've seen the crazy, the rude and the completely and totally unreasonable - and there was a LOT of stuff I wouldn't have put up with.

But that applies to every single portion of the service industry. I've worked with the public for 25+ years in the automotive field and I can tell you I've dealt with enough crazy, demanding and sometimes demented people to fill a venue (and a bigger one than Clio, lol). They put the crazy Claymates to shame.The public is whacked, y'all. It's not limited to Clay fans. Sometimes I feel like we buy into the image as much or more as any of 'them' do.

I know that's true and don't think anyone should have to put up with it, for anything. Not just crazy Clay fans. Technically, I work in the service industry and there are some clients we just don't deal with. And we are talking fees in the 6 figure range (lord, I wish I worked on commission sometimes). Sometimes, it simply is not worth it. I'm not talking about the image - I'm talking about the true incredibly difficult to deal with, and cannot be satisfied ones. Who DO exist. It's like teenagers and the mall - most of them are not troublemakers and lord knows they spend tons of money - but a company has successfully been selling a thing called "Kids Be Gone" only audible to teens and young adults - because the small percentage of crazy makes it not worth it.

As I've said repeatedly, I don't buy into or own any "image" - I react to reality.

[cindilu2]

No, nobody should have to put up with rude behaviour. I got a little off-point with correlation to my industry, when the subject is Clay. Do you really think that the behaviour at any Clay concert has warranted an 'I don't want them here' attitude. To the point that he shouldn't be booked? I certainly don't. Did they bust down barriers? Abuse security and safety measures? Curse out staff? Trash dressing rooms/venues? The 'crimes' of Clayfans might be some OTT behaviour - but it's such a small percentage. I just don't buy it as any kind of justification for passing him over for a booking.

I did edit my post before it was quoted to add 'but like the Clay fans, it's the small minority that you remember. Doesn't mean I can throw them out of the shop (the equivilent of ignoring the wants and needs of the customer because I may not like them, or even the product they're buying).' And that's what I'm saying - the ratio of 'crazy' to 'butts in seats' at Clay's concerts to me simply doesn't justify it.

[claytonic]

Generally (but there are exceptions), major tours are set up and managed by the concert promoters, whose business is to research potential touring artists. Usually a tour coincides with a new album, so the promoter gets a deal with the record company as well since they obviously stand to benefit from the publicity and interest generated by the publicist for the tour. Often, the opening act is an artist that the record company wants to promote, so its a win/win.

When a tour is negotiated, the artist's management negotiates with the promoters, and it often is a 70%/30% either net or gross (usually the latter); of course the artist gets the bigger slice.

Promoters are highly selective but are also risk takers since a tour that does not meet ticket sale expectations can really be devastatingly costly. Because the promoters carry a lot of the financial burden, they often have private investors, a bit like investors in a movie production although they have absolutely nothing to do with the entertainment industry. This is generally for big name artists, especially with international touring, whereby the artist's manager has to rely on the promoter's experience and knowledge about the artist's potential for their specific location.

For Clay, I imagine that they would also use the Fan Club database to determine where the fans are mainly located.

[KAndre]

Curse out staff during the ticket ordering? Yes. Tie up customer service rep for an ungodly amount of time just to reject 4th row center tickets because they weren't good enough? Yes.

This was not concert behaviour. This was behaviour during the ticket buying time, and the people who have to deal with the crazy get to decide how much crazy they are willing to put up with. Neither of us know where their line is. Things you and I might roll our eyes and deal with - somebody making minimum wage or a volunteer working for a venue out of love may not be able to tolerate.

And since rohdy's daughter has a solid track record of apparently being successful without having to deal with the (admittedly) small but memorable amount of crazy, why would she want too?

[ldyjocelyn]

cindilu2, I don't necessarily think it's the behavior at the concerts -- it's the behavior BEFORE the concerts, such as during the ticket buying process. I've heard stories of fans mouthing off to ticket sales coordinators when shows were announced -- because they didn't get front row seats. What about those people who call the venues every half hour to see if they've booked Clay? (For the record -- I think calling venues every few months to see if they have any interest in booking Clay is not a bad idea. But there's such a thing as overkill....) And while it may be a minority that would do that -- damn it, we all know that the squeaky wheels get the grease. It may be totally unfair, but I think it happens. JMO.

Or, what KAndre said when I was typing (and getting interrupted 5 times)....

[cindilu2]

Hee, uhhuh. That's why I added a whole bunch of 'to me's to my posts ;-)

It's all about personal perspective - since she's allowed to use hers to judge which acts get booked, I focused on that. All the points about ticket buying behaviour, etc - totally valid. But again I ask, is that limited to Clay fans? Spending time on the phones? Dealing with the limited amount of crazies - part of the job! I'm in no way excusing the behaviour - but it's part of the job.

Wasn't that duet awesome? Did y'all know he has a CD coming out on Tuesday? I've heard some of it. It RAWKS!!

Heheh.

[KAndre]

No, and we are not saying it's limited to Clay fans, but I'm sure there are other acts that don't get booked as well because they don't want to deal with that act's crazies either. I'll bet rohdy's daughter has a whole list of people she just bypasses, rohdy (and by extension, us) frankly just don't care about the others.

Yeah, spending some time of the phone and dealing with some clients is a part of the job - but some of the behaviour I've heard is definitely not.

The duet was OK, to me.

But yeah, the CD RAWKS!

[Iseeme]

Morning.

Uhhhh - seeing where the fans are located would be a big waste of time for a promoter - Clay's fans have been flying the friendly skies for 5 years. And what board would provide that information?

I have to agree with Cindilu - I've only heard and read reports about phones ringing off the hook and people overwhelming ticket booths. I would think that would be the holy grail to a venue!!! Have all those people clamoring for tickets to fill their seats!!! It's not like Clay's fans are doing drugs in the parking lot and so drunk they're hurling in the aisles. Bwahhhh - I have this mental image of us middle-aged sometimes slightly overweight women rioting at a venue! Hee! Jerome would come out, raise one eyebrow, point a finger, and we'd all be quiet and lined up in single file.

For those of you who get Google alerts there was an interesting one this morning with that insipid disgusting creature Perez Hilton. He was asked how his blog started and that he told Howard Stern it had something to do with Clay Aiken. When asked what he wrote Perez said that Clay was gay - but that he has repeatedly denied it. Interesting. I wonder if Clay's legal teams have perhaps had a chat with this cretin. I've never seen him back off from his stance. He does go on to make a remark but it was lightweight compared to what he usually does. He did say he got death threats from Clay's fans. Again - you have to watch out for us violent middle-aged sometimes slightly overweight women. We're dangerous!

I'm so excited for all of you who are seeing Spamalot this weekend. I have 3 friends who are going to all 4 shows and are promising lots of phone calls before and after the performances. I can't even imagine what will be going through Clay's mind when he takes that final curtain call! What a run! What a marvelous decision to do that play! Someone was posting last night about how this was probably the first time Clay has been completely accepted for his talent without all the other bullpotty that can surround what he does. We know he tries to ignore the negative side of his celebrity and this must have been so heart-warming and satisfying for him. I hope he's able to keep in contact with some of the friends he's made from the show.

I have to teach a quilting class in a town about an hour away from here today so won't be on the board much. I hope that means some exciting news will come out.............usually does when I'm away!

ETA: a bunch of you posted while I composing! I'm sorry - I just don't see a venue not booking someone because fans are clamoring to buy tickets. I also dont' see that Clay's fans are worse than someone trying for Springsteen or Rolling Stone tickets. It's the ticket-buying process. I don't know rohdy or her daughter but ........ my son used to work concerts in SoCal. He told me one time about MC Hammer and crew literally destroying the room where they were eating with a food fight, ripping stuff off the walls, putting holes in the carpet, etc. etc. They were not asked back to that venue again. Seems to me like that's alot worse than someone getting upset because they can't have 4th row seats.

ETA #2 - there's a new CD coming out Tuesday? Oh WOW! (tm Dennis Galahad)

[Gibby]

I think all of us have seen OTT, crazy, extremely demanding people in whatever line of work we are in. In the hospital, it's often a lose-lose situation when those type of people or their families get sick. They are ridiculously demanding and unreasonable when life or limb are in peril, or even if they just have a hangnail. I have compassion for people in difficult situations, which is why I work in a hospital in the first place. But I (and other staff) feel disgusted when patients or families want special privileges at the expense of other patients and families, some of whom are in worse situations.

I'm lovin' the pics of Clay and Hannah together! They are really a gorgeous couple, even with Clay's eyeliner! The eyeliner doesn't stand out to me as much in the pics with Hannah as it does in stage door pics.

Well, I'm off to work. Wonder what new Clay stuff will come up today? It has been an exciting week so far!

[cindilu2]

So the bottom line then is that it's the fans fault that he will never get booked at that venue?

I find that hard to accept in a world where 'crazy' is kind of the norm. The entertainment world.

[Iseeme]

Cindilu - I LOVE your avatar! Just thought I would mention that!

[KAndre]

Well, not to put a fine point on it, venues are all about the fans. Fans ultimately are the reason someone gets booked or not. If you have no fans, you ain't gonna get booked, no matter what a wonderful act you are. If you don't have enough fans, you ain't gonna get booked (again, no matter how perfectly lovely the performer is). If the fans you bring in isn't worth the hassle, you ain't gonna get booked (yes, Clay could be the sweetest thing since sugar - but the people in the ticket office aren't dealing with sugary sweet Clay - they are dealing with psycho fan from Houston who is treating them like shit).

Clay is expensive and for smaller venues, profit margins are thin. And in the local entertainment scene, a lot of people don't just work venues for money.

[atinal]

The Wal-Mart snippets are up!!

[Iseeme]

Well in the last two days we've determined that Clay won't/can't/probably never will tour in the West because there just aren't enough people and that venues won't book him because his fans go into a frenzy over tickets.

Poor guy. I wonder if he realizes how self-limiting he is!

[luckiest1]

In my opinion, make-up is completely appropriate for Clay's television/stage/photo-op appearances, but...even if he wore eyeliner habitually in "real life", my reaction to that would STILL be about me, not Clay.

Just wanted to say WORD and :F_05BL17blowkiss:

Uhhhh - seeing where the fans are located would be a big waste of time for a promoter - Clay's fans have been flying the friendly skies for 5 years. And what board would provide that information?

I seriously doubt that a handful of fans flying into a specific venue would make that much of a difference. Yes, sometimes there is a larger percentage than a handful (i.e. a special appearance like the Las Vegas skating show or the Raleigh CFC gala, or the first or last venue of a tour) but for a regular run of a concert tour where people have 25, 30, even 40 venue to choose from, I don't think this would even make a dent. Of course promoters have to book in towns & cities where people are most interested.

Are there any more appearances this week (other than Spamalot)? I have to go back and find aikim's fantastic countdown....

BTW no Spam reports from last night?

ETA: Are the Walmart snippets different?

[atinal]

A: Are the Walmart snippets different?

luckiest, I think there are some differences in the snippets, plus there is the snippet for the bonus track

[ldyjocelyn]

WalMart snippets includes the bonus track!

I like it. A lot.

[Iseeme]

Well Luckiest, I seriously doubt it's only a handful! The 4-fer in California last year was a perfect example!!!!! There were out-of-staters abounding at those concerts!!!!! Look at the people that fly in to NC when he appears "at home!" I have friends here in CA that go to numerous concerts out of state. Oh wait - they HAVE to if they want to see him "live!"

But all of this discussion boils down to whether this CD is going to take off like a rocket! If it does, than I would bet that past experience and history will only be a small factor in where Clay gets booked!

I saw a stage door report from last night at CV and some pictures!!!! Nothing much new from all the other stage door reports. His hair is shorter and redder and he looked mussed and cute! I'm glad he's coming out again - that's nice for the folks that haven't had the benefit....

[KAndre]

Well in the last two days we've determined that Clay won't/can't/probably never will tour in the West because there just aren't enough people and that venues won't book him because his fans go into a frenzy over tickets.

Poor guy. I wonder if he realizes how self-limiting he is!

Well, no - and it's not quite fair (and more than a tad annoying) to pull broad generalities and exaggerations out of specific situations. Clay has toured in the West - not as much as some would like, and not the type of tours that some would like, and not specifically where some would like, but it's not like he stands on the eastern shore of the Mississippi and pointed his middle finger at all points west. And venues clearly book him - we have been discussion one that will not - two reasons were given, and neither of the reasons were unreasonable in my eyes.

[JennaZ]

Thanks for the touring information, claytonic and rohdy.

I do think that earlier in his career when he was still relatively hot off Idol, he did have a major promoter who organized (and bore the financial risk) of his tours. I suspect that more recent tours have been the result of bookings made through CAA. My guess is that they do send out information to venues and then, they really do wait and see what offers come back. They sort through them, determining which ones make sense logistically and financially, and then plan the tour based around that.

Yes, if he really wanted to play in a venue that did not request him, they could try to book it directly, but that would probably involve a significant financial outlay. Multiply that by a region, and we could be talking a lot of money with a lot of risk. I don't know if he'd want to do that, even if he could.

I can believe that some overzealous Clay fans can be a headache for a venue. And it may not necessarily be that they're unbearable. It may simply be that the venue can earn the same amount of revenue from a booking that's easier to manage, and so they choose to do so. However, FWIW, I tend to doubt that fans are the primary reason he doesn't get bookings in some places.

Honestly, I suspect that there are people out there--promoters, venue managers, etc.--who just don't quite believe in Clay as an artist, and thus, don't think that he could be a profitable act. There is information out there that suggests otherwise, but if someone just doesn't "get" him, especially if they haven't seen him on television recently or heard his music on the radio, that person might pass over him for someone they understand more. I'm not saying this is right or smart, but I could see it happening.

However, if Clay were to have a successful album, and that success was brought to the public eye, I do think that venues all over the country would be more eager to book him. And with enough success, the big promoters and sponsors would return as well. But I don't think it's just about the numbers. It's about perception. They'd have to believe that he is a "hot" and "in-demand" artist, someone who could bring in the crowds.

And who knows? Maybe with this album, it will happen.

[luckiest1]

I found this one Spam report from ClayReno at the CB:

Iphone briefs tonight

SD with huge crowds 8-10peep deep

Clay took a while to come out

lots and lots of young kids in large groups

Orchestra packed no empty seat

Audience loud &very energetic

The show very much on fire

Steve Rosen new Bedevere back and great

Nun still out but sub is fine

Clay on fire brought down the house on solo

Loud laughter thoughout the show

Standing ovation and very loud applause for Clay

Hannah acknowleged the reception gave a nod to Clay

Lots of Claymates in the house

NJUs very impressed a/Clay they also went to SD

What a fantastic night

See y'all tomorrow good night.

And this from butterflyshine at CV:

hopefully this won't bore...stage door pretties...no recap tonight, figured i would focus on the important things

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a213/but...71_filtered.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a213/but...73_filtered.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a213/but...74_filtered.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a213/but...75_filtered.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a213/but...76_filtered.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a213/but...77_filtered.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a213/but...78_filtered.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a213/but...79_filtered.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a213/but...80_filtered.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a213/but...81_filtered.jpg

[Iseeme]

Well Kandre - We spent alot of yesterday talking about why he wouldn't/couldn't/shouldn't tour in the West. We also spent alot of yesterday talking about what's OTT and what isn't and how people view that differently. And then today we start off the morning describing OTT behavior at ticket booths like it's an every-concert occurrence and that's why "some" venues won't book Clay ( maybe!) So I'm sorry if my post was annoying but I still think that pretty much sums it up! Broad generalizations and exaggerations are made here frequently - I guess they just become annoying if you dont' agree with them.

Not trying to start anything here - honest. But I don't think your post was fair.

And now I must leave for work. I'll read about my crucifixion tonite! :F_05BL17blowkiss:

[JennaZ]

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