#31: The Very Handsome Sir Clay of Aiken

[annabear]

A great response to the People review, from Mandler at getclayaiken (with her permission):

I'm still confuzzled, by the way, as to how "vanilla" has become a dirty word. What's does a chocolate ballad sound like? Are there chocolate chip cookie dough ballads? Moose tracks ballads? Butter pecan ballads?

Mmmmmmmm...ice cream....

I happen to like vanilla. And I also happen to like ice cream. I think Clay is a rich vanilla with a buttery, thick, luscious caramel core. Heh.

[cindilu2]

A great response to the People review, from Mandler at getclayaiken (with her permission):

I'm still confuzzled, by the way, as to how "vanilla" has become a dirty word. What's does a chocolate ballad sound like? Are there chocolate chip cookie dough ballads? Moose tracks ballads? Butter pecan ballads?

Mmmmmmmm...ice cream....

I happen to like vanilla. And I also happen to like ice cream. I think Clay is a rich vanilla with a buttery, thick, luscious caramel core. Heh.

The stick isn't bad either

[luckiest1]

Wheeeeee! We're back! I hatesssssss when the board goes down.....

[ldyjocelyn]

Good Lord....what was that? Man, I was getting the DT's after only an hour of trying to get in.

I deem it time for a pretty picture....

[muskifest]

Saw this on CH:

calclay wrote:

Three and a half stars and many appearances didn't do Ashley much good. She only sold 41k in her first week.

GAWD...doesn't this MEAN anything to the 'cool' crowd? DUH. :8:

[annabear]

Eeeeep! Rumor going around here at work this afternoon is that they let a bunch of people in my old department go this morning.....

[cindilu2]

Saw this on CH:

calclay wrote:

Three and a half stars and many appearances didn't do Ashley much good. She only sold 41k in her first week.

GAWD...doesn't this MEAN anything to the 'cool' crowd? DUH. :8:

Is it wrong that this makes me giggle? Dang, we need a Not Dead Fred emotie (but it has to have Tom's eyes, and be able to dance and sing and quite possibly do the Highland Fling).

Annabear - eek! I hope all is well for you.

[pkmiller]

I'm sad that the reviews are not better...has Billboard written theirs yet? Although they don't sound like actual "reviews" of the music...more of the "man". Do you ever wonder what happened? In 2003-20004 Clay was everywhere and people loved him! What happened?

{{{{{annabear}}}}}

[annabear]

So far so good up here. Our project team was moved up to the far west corner of the top floor of the building. We kid about being "forgotten" up here. When sh..stuff like this starts happening, we kinda start hoping that's the truth!

Although they don't sound like actual "reviews" of the music...more of the "man".

Bingo! That's exactly what they're doing, pk. And of their pre-conceived, warped notions about the man, at that.... :italianflick:

[cindilu2]

Hopefully anybody who actually would look to a magazine for a music review would in turn have enough savvy to see that there isn't anything about the music in things like those two reviews. Does that make sense? If I really wanted somebody else's idea about what I might like to listen to and read something like that - I'd disregard it. Dang, I know what I'm trying to say here - does anybody else? It's why I'm just not getting upset over them.

[ldyjocelyn]

cindilu, I know exactly what you are saying. I'm an oddball in the fandom, for I have bought music (and seen a movie for that matter) because of reading a review. Having said that, if there's no actual, you know, TALK about the music, it doesn't make sense to me for me to even pursue it.

I'm still trying to figure out the best answer to atinal's question, "is pop music dead?" My feeling is "no." And honestly....I think there is a wild disconnect that goes on between critics and what some of the general population wants. I know some people don't like the comparison, but I think Celine Dion is a good example. Sings pop songs. Derided by critics (and other people too, I know...but I like her). And sells a gazillion copies. I see Clay the same way.

As Clay said -- here's to not caring.

[KAndre]

Heh, I've been reading this Slate article about Mariah Carey (and some of the reviews of someone who has sold more than 61 million albums were horrendous - and don't get me started on the attitude about melisma). It caught my attention because from the beginning of this fandom, there has been a fair amount of dissing on melisma and this very same author in the New York Times used the AI2 CD as a horrible example of it (though she mainly called out Ruben and didn't mention Clay). He now is taking it all back about Mariah, and finally has said what I've always said about Mariah: she is all about the talent and the prowess. Give 'em 5 - 10 more years - some of them will eat crow and admit to the talent and prowess.

And what ldyj said!

[pkmiller]

I sought out reviews a few months ago...I was thinking about buying a John Legend CD but knew nothing about him. I'm sure there are others out there who do that too.

My question is how did we go from Best Pop CD of 2003 to schmaltzy ???? And what does his alleged sexual preference or lack thereof have to do with anything??? What in the heck is that doing in a "review"? When they review a CD for Elton John do they say he is g.a.y?

[cindilu2]

cindilu, I know exactly what you are saying. I'm an oddball in the fandom, for I have bought music (and seen a movie for that matter) because of reading a review. Having said that, if there's no actual, you know, TALK about the music, it doesn't make sense to me for me to even pursue it.

I'm still trying to figure out the best answer to atinal's question, "is pop music dead?" My feeling is "no." And honestly....I think there is a wild disconnect that goes on between critics and what some of the general population wants. I know some people don't like the comparison, but I think Celine Dion is a good example. Sings pop songs. Derided by critics (and other people too, I know...but I like her). And sells a gazillion copies. I see Clay the same way.

As Clay said -- here's to not caring.

But that's not quite what I'm saying. I haven't ever decided for or against buy a CD (or seeing a movie, or reading a book) based upon a review. BUT, if I went looking for one with that in mind and read something like these I would disregard them because they aren't about the music.

pkmilller - one person (Billboard - was it Chuck Taylor or Fred Bronson?) gave the 'best cd of 2003' review. Clay has never been a critic's darling and I doubt he ever will be. (Unless KAndre's plan for world domination kicks in quicker then we'd hoped *g*)

And the media in general has changed, yes even since 2003 - it gets more salacious and superficial every day and isn't showing any signs of slowing down. In fact it seems like it's accelerating. The media world is an ugly place, and sadly, people like Clay get chewed up in it.

Here's to not caring? I'll drink to that.

[ldyjocelyn]

cindi -- I actually do think you and I are saying the same thing. It's just that I HAVE read reviews that are about the music...and have then purchased an album because of said review. If I read a review of an album that really doesn't talk about the music, I ignore.

So, are we on the same wavelength or not?

Yes, the media is changing at a rapid pace. Why? IMO because of the internet...which is just as salacious, maybe even moreso. It's a weird world we live in right now.

[JennaZ]

While some do read reviews, musical tastes are so radically diverse and varied, that I tend to believe that generally, music reviews are less influential than reviews of, say, films or restaurants. Of course, YMMV. I'd love for Clay to get more positive ones, but the fact that he hasn't doesn't really surprise me or worry me.

I agree that Clay does currently have a "coolness" issue that may hinder his acceptance among some. That may be something that he'll always have to bear, but the thing is, fashions and fads are fluid. What is cool one day can be uncool the next, and vice versa. Sometimes, a change in circumstance, or even just an odd, random event, can turn the tide.

I've often thought that Clay's sense of humor, properly presented, could ultimately be that trigger. Often, we've heard anecdotal evidence that his humor in concerts, or his performance in Spamalot, caused someone to gain a new respect for him. Yes, it's partly about the jokes, but I think that can and has bled over into an open-mindedness when it comes to his performances. People go in thinking that he's going to be a musical bore. They come out realizing that he's a funny, self-deprecating guy who, by the way, sings pretty well.

Clay seems to realize this, as his interviews about Spamalot seem to suggest. Using humor to sell music isn't a typical thing for an artist to do, but for someone as unusual as he is, with the "coolness" issues he has, it may not be a bad thing to do. I don't know if it will be enough, but I do think it's worth a try. Maybe he's not well-respected as a music artist. But he does seem to be respected as a Broadway performer, and perhaps even as a television personality. If that respect percolates and grows, I can see it affecting how people view his music as well.

I guess I'm just not willing to write him off as terminally "uncool." Maybe he'll never be universally beloved. Perhaps Grammy's and glowing reviews are not in his future. It's possible he won't be the Elvis-level superstar many want him to be.

However, with the right circumstances, at the right time, I do think it's possible for him to become more popular. And if that happens, we can always say, "We knew him when..."

[Clayzorback]

Well, I'm gonna come down a teensy bit on the side of rohdy's daughter - sometimes money is NOT enough to make up for crazy. Or rude. Or completely and totally unreasonable. It costs money to deal with those people too (ah, the joys of working in a service industry). And from the last Houston concert, I've seen the crazy, the rude and the completely and totally unreasonable - and there was a LOT of stuff I wouldn't have put up with.

"The Prayer" simply doesn't do it for me - though he and Hannah sound really, really good. I like a little of deep-voice Clay, but too much of it always sounds less natural to me than that gorgeous lyric tenor he tends to fall into. Not that fond of the song either, though I've heard some gorgeous versions of it.

.

Bwahaa. Cracked me up. Just like when ldyjocelyn said bang to Claygasm when she said shoot me.

The Prayer didn't do it for me either. Andrea Bocelli and Celine Dion's version is awesome as well as Josh Groban and Church's? version. I am not a fan of Clay in the deep voice either. It comes acrosss as appealing more to real old people. Sorry.

I'm pretty sure I read on here a recap from someone who had a meet and greet with Clay. It is reported that some one asked him why he doesn't get radio play. IIRC he said that it was his fan's fault. Because they annoyed the DJs and station programmers and became a nuisance until he was blackballed. So yes. I can certainly understand why some venues and some people and places would not want Clay's business because of his OTT fans. I think a prime example of being OTT, at a concert, is when fans bring their roll of duck tape with them, and walk the aisles telling perfect strangers to let them cover the flash on their cameras. Because it hurts their baby boy's eyes. Are you kidding me? NO!!!! OTT behavior that I can't stand is his mother hen protectors. The ones who worry and engage the swamp people like Perez Hilton and John Paul ass. The ones who send piles of useless information about a couple of nut jobs to Clay's attorneys. Thinking they are doing Clay a favor. OTT behavior like the fans that are sure to write the reviewer of that People Mag and let them know, in no unccertain terms ,what a piece of shit they are for dissing their boy. OTT? Fans that tell reporters that Clay is the Savior. Oh God, we could go on and on about the reputation Clay's fans have given themselves and it isn't very pretty IMHO. I think it was ldyjocelyn who used the word overkill. Perfect word to describe some behavior.

Pop Music, in my estimation of what that is, is alive and well on AC/HOT AC. Clay's single is listed on the Spincrease chart on All Access as having 6 stations playing him now with an increase of 15 spins. If I read that correctly. It will take awhile longer to get in the top 10 on AC, but once he is there he will be played forever.

I imagine that a lot of these music reviewers are young people. People who are used to reviewing rock music and not so much AC music. I pay no attention to music or movie reviews. I also agree that the people review is probably pretty accurate in their description of Clay's ballad songs. His way of singing some ballads could be described as Schmaltzy or cheesey. That's true. That stuff is likely not to be a radio hit. Clay likes to choose songs and sing them in a way that is a throwback to another era. He really was born too late. Hopefully, though, if they release Ashes or Fallen they will have a hit on radio.

Anyway I think the male music critics just have penis envy, and are frustrated musicians who could never make it big themselves. Giving bad reviews, to those who can, is as close to being in the limelight as they will ever get. Female critics would change their opinions of Clay if they could see how nicely he fills ouy a pair of white slacks.............

[cagney1950]

I have been really enjoying peeking in throughout the day here at work.

I was just going to post that Billboard was out of step with most reviewers in 2003 in their praise of MOAM. I remembered ravenously collecting reviews...still have some yellowed copies in my Clay box! One review that I liked was from Elysa Gardner from USA. I think she gave him a 2 star out of four but it had alot of specific remarks about the album and hope that Clay would get material that his voice deserves. With the exception of Billboard, I don't think any review of MOAM was higher than 2 stars out of 4. I think EW gave it a C.

I have always enjoyed reading reviews and yes, they have influenced me to buy albums even when I knew little about the artist. I was hoping that favorable reviews in outlets like People might predispose the nju to give Clay's album a try. Actually the sliver of a silver lining in the People review is the recommendation to download Something About Us. That is truly such a gorgeous song, gorgeously sung that it might tempt people to listen to the snippets available at Amazon and Walmart and the listening stations at the record outlets.

(I think I got my love from reading the Saturday Review as a child. My parents got it and true to my nerd nature then (still going strong) I loved to read it.)

musikest, I think you asked a question earlier today about the group that got a poor review even though the reviewer admitted not listening to the music. I think that was Black Sabbath and the reviewer was from Maxim. There was an interesting story about reviewers and how they review music on Weekend Edition on NPR on March 15. (I remember because it was the weekend I was going to Spamalot!). Anyhoo, they were making the point that often reviewers only listen to an album once and that is not enough in order to really appreciate a song. They said, how many of you bought an album, didn't like it the first time through, and then grew to love it? I know my purchase of Jack Johnson's On and On was like that. I heard one song on the radio, bought the cd, and then thought "they all sound the same." But as I listened, each developed there own personality. I absolutely love that album now.

I find it astonishing that Ashlee Simpson's album only sold 41k. She has had some hi profile gigs like DWTS. Has anyone heard it? Is it any good?

I do take issue with "schmaltzy" to describe this album. Well maybe OMWH could be described that way but the other songs don't give me that sense at all. Lover All Alone...in what universe is that shmaltzy?

The VHI did not review OMWH and really didn't for most of the "must hear" cds they posted. I wonder if such a listing is publicity driven. They certainly did not make the description sound interesting. And we know that it took Clay just minutes to write the lyrics once he got down to it, but I remember in some of the concerts over the summer he left that part out, just said it took him 7 months.

[wandacleo]

We're supposed to care about reviewers who slobber all over audio-corrected monotonous songs by people who lipsynch their way to stardom???

Elvis got BAD reviews.

We know how that worked out.

[ldyjocelyn]

Clayzor, I mostly agree with you about some of the "mother hens" in the fandom. However, regarding the duct tape issue...heh. Clay is actually the one who suggested that, in one of his OFC blogs right before the JNT 2005. And as far as I know, no one ever came to blows over that; in fact, more than a few people got a clue that flash photography at a concert isn't a real good idea (and that it doesn't help anyway).

Man, I think I need to listen to deep voiced Clay again. Can someone hand me my walker? *g*

cagney -- nice to see you posting here. I totally agree with you about "living" with an album for a while. I've revisited albums that I listened to once, maybe twice...only to find that I missed some gems the first time around. Heck, I've felt that way about some of Clay's songs -- Lonely No More didn't capture my attention right away, but soon, I was humming that song every chance I got.

Oh, but it was the Black Crowes with the faux album review. Here's an article about it....

[Couch Tomato]

Deep voiced Clay always sends shivers down my spine. I really love his entire range. Somebody said this is the best duet he's ever done... and I agree. I can't think of a one that I enjoyed more.

I don't care about reviews. Haven't since he got crucified for MoaM and a lot of what he has done since then. I don't expect anyone to give Clay a chance. I haven't really heard anything but the Slovenia clips but still, I won't give them the beneift of any doubt just because they've heard the album and I haven't. If they've heard it.

Going to the show in a few hours. Today I got lost on the subway; that was fun. Went to Lower east side which seemed really dead. There is a lot of cheap shopping there. Do they promote that area at all? So walked down Delancy street, went to the tenement museum, ate at Katz's deli, then took a bus up to the United Nations and took the guided tour (where I lost my camera)..did all this with my lurker friend that arrived in town yesterday. Now off to eat before the show. I love NYC.

[gbmifan]

I am one who does read reviews but only do to see if I will agree with them. Almost every movie I haved loved the critics hate. When I purchased Rascal Flats last CD I new EW said it was along with Clay's the top 5 worst album of the year, but I really enjoyed it. I take out a lot of CD's from our library to see it I will like them before I buy. Some of those who have got great reviews I have hated. Everyone tastes are different. I was hoping this time that Clay would finally find respect, but it looks like it will be the same thing again. I am not going to get upset, I am going to enjoy this great CD .

I had to wait to see QVC this week because I am probably the only one who does not have cable. I did download a couple song prior to watching the show on Tues. at my mother. Remember she is 87 and did tape it for me. She was funny, she at first did not like his hair, but after she watched it several times decided that it did look good. It just looked so different to her.

I did have my friend order a CD for me. I hoping when I get to Walmart on Tues. they have the bonus CD, if not I know I will survive and just pick up the other one.

[cagney1950]

idyjocelyn, thank you for the correction. Somehow when I wrote Black Sabbath it didn't seem write. Well I got the Black part right! :biggrin:

[annabear]

Man, I think I need to listen to deep voiced Clay again. Can someone hand me my walker? *g*

[PermaSwooned]

Oh thank goodness y'all are back. I KNEW you'd be having some good discussion. I wrote up a very pithy post and then....couldn't post it!! I tried somewhere else, but it's just not the same. So here it is:

I've been attempting to be all Zen-like about Access Hollywood, VH1, People, etc., etc., but it's not working all that well, so I figure I'll just rant once and then let it go. Hopefully. Scroll at will.

OK. I'm pretty peeved...I have to admit it.

I think that Clay worked really hard to make this a quality album. I think that he and Jaymes searched long and hard to find Kipper, and I think they struck gold. I think the album is very eclectic, and that though the arrangements are varied, they are all really excellent to my ears. I still think that this is the closest to LIVE Clay that has ever been captured in the studio, and I think that about pretty much every song. The album presents a fabulous opportunity to appreciate the many facets of Clay Aiken and how beautifully he's evolved.

I think that he hoped (and I certainly hoped) that using a producer of Kipper's stature to produce a cohesive CD and having songwriters like David Foster and Ryan Tedder involved would lend some credibility to the project. Any reasonable person might think that.

But nooooooooooooooooooooooo!! After all, it's Clay Aiken that they're reviewing. Don't mention the incredible vocals. Don't mention how he can change up his interpretations to fit the song. Don't talk about how carefully the songs have been selected lyrically to fit the theme of lessons learned as we grow-up and mature. Nope, nope, nope. Just throw in some references to American Idol!! Do they really think he was TRYING to copy Daughtry??? Jeee-suz!!! What maroons!!

I was particularly taken with how they eliminated all possible boxes for Clay. Schmaltzy ballads just don't work in today's music scene, but God forbid he try to sing anything else!! Clay is a very smart man. He said that he tried out a few songs, and he enjoyed singing them, but didn't think he could pull them off. He used an example of a Maroon-5 type song that was probably better left to Maroon 5. He knew. Many of us thought he was overly cautious, but he knew.

Years ago I was watching Prime Time or one of those shows when they were on almost every night. They were introducing a new musical artist from Canada. He was really young, but wanted to bring back smoooooth older music. They sort of figuratively patted him on the head and said "isn't that cute". I didn't hear any more about him for quite some time, but eventually he started to catch on and has certainly become quite successful. He's never been a Top40 artist, although he's been in the right age range for most of his career, and yet he's played on AC radio, his albums sell well and he sells out on his concert tours. Y'all know who it is...Michael Buble. It just killed me to watch him sell out 3 shows at the Greek in nothing flat when Clay couldn't do it even once on a Saturday night in August. So what makes MB so bullet-proof? I don't think he sings as well as Clay, he's not as interesting as a performer, I don't think he's as naturally funny, and I don't think he's any "cooler" than Clay in his musical stylings. But no one cares where his feet are on an airplane or that he takes his bodyguard to an industry party. No one complains that he's a Sinatra wannabe or even a Harry Connick wannabe. He just keeps trucking right along, doing his thing and raking in the money.

Maybe it's because he never DID try to break into Top40 radio. They never have known what to do with Clay. I love rockin' Clay in concert, and I think Fallin' may be my favorite cut on the album, but honestly I think he'd be in a different place now if they had concentrated on AC radio in the first place. JMHO. Oh well.

I'm heading to NY tomorrow to see our amazing BF in Spamalot as he takes his final bows. I am so, so grateful that Clay and all of us have had Spamalot to celebrate this year. They celebrated when he arrived there, they promoted him as a big star, he was given a warm welcome, was treated with respect and affection by his castmates, got good reviews and played for delighted audiences every night. I loved that Hannah & Clay, who both had their Broadway debut on the same night, were given such a great ovation at BC on Monday. That was special. I'll tell you, I live in California, and trekking off to NY is a big deal, but I'd gladly do it again multiple times to see him treated that well again.

I'm supposed to be packing, but I'm remembering back to when we got the People/EW reviews for ATDW. The big comparison on reviews then was that the incredible talented *g* Paris Hilton got stellar reviews and zillions of stars for her debut album. The reviewer freely admitted that there was so much ProTooling and production that she may not even have been in the studio, but it was "catchy". Lord save us. There are none so deaf as those who will not hear.

I really need to get back to packing. Right after I increase my order at Walmart.com.