#48: He is...therefore I fan.

[Couch Tomato]

ETA: Just wanted to say that Scarlett's posts yesterday were interesting because she was saying something new, and it led us somewhere interesting.

what I loved about her post is that she just posted the possibilities without a dogmatic approach to how Clay fits into it all. In fact she said - hopefully this will work for CLay OR the next person..somebody, anybody. Loved that. It was refreshing.

[aikim]

I was in no way implying that I know better than Clay what is best for his career or that I know anything about his career...just my opinions based on what we do know. I would be the last person to give Clay career advice since I know nothing about the music industry and I have always said that what we don't know is a heck of lot more than what we do know.

But you know, there are always two sides to a story and I don't think RCA is totally to blame for whatever some fans think when wrong with Clay's career.

Sorry if I gave the wrong impression.

Kim

[claytonic]

"Oh, he once gave up meat for two years, so prolly he stubbornly refused to go to Clive's party or live in Los Angeles or cooperate with scum media, and therefore his career is in the toilet and it is all his fault" seems to be that bizarre storyline.

There is no thought on my mind that he would have seriously compromised his career due to that level of stubbornness, but I understand stubbornness, yet I couldn't have done what he did even as a teenager, the worst time of my stubbornness.

Maybe you're right and he exaggerated his stubbornness, but I can't speculate on that, I can only go by what he said happened.

And yes, every single person in this fandom is subjective to varying degrees, because that is what people do if they are "attached" to Clay the way we are. For my part, this is all just hot air blowing around and we can analyze all we want because if that is what gets us through another day in this fandom, then so be it, it isn't going to kill anyone and those who are annoyed by it, don't read it, no one is forced to read another person's post. Besides, none of this analyzing is going to affect or influence Clay, he has a mind of his own and he has a network of people who will guide and advise him. His experience in teaching special needs children has been, I believe, invaluable to him. It would have given him the tools to deal with unexpected situations. I think it also gave him the capacity to deal with the kind of people who are much more difficult to handle than any special needs child. He's not perfect but he can take care of himself. At the end of the day, he's still singing to me, and not worrying me at all, because I am not conceited enough as to think that he needs me to worry about him.

[Couch Tomato]

You didn't Aikim. I'm with you on knowing very little about the music business and even less about Clay personally.

Claylove I did something administrative on your behalf. If you can't get in contact me.

Is clay stubborn? I don't know. I've seen it used on things like...

he won't stopped interrupting WDC out of sheer stubborness

I don't think that's stubborness. He liked his way better and it was the best way he felt to give his band the props it deserved.

I think Clay has a very good idea of what he will do and won't do and sticks with it. But he has been known to also change things that don't work. I've always loved how his shows evolved because he would fix what didn't work as he went along. And when he didn't change things - like not sing YWT - I don't think that's out of subborness or spite.

Career wise, I don't know.. doing JBT every year, not going to places to be seen with the right people and photographed and hob nobbing... singing SLOOOOOOOOOOOOW songs when he has a choice.. heee. does that qualify as stubborn? Don't think so.

My auntie made me eat grits when I was little although I told her my mom didn't fix those things for me. I refused to eat them for the next 20 years. ha! Now that's stupid and stubborn cuz I love grits. hee.

[Clayzy]

You didn't Aikim. I'm with you on knowing very little about the music business and even less about Clay personally.

Claylove I did something administrative on your behalf. If you can't get in contact me.

Is clay stubborn? I don't know. I've seen it used on things like...

he won't stopped interrupting WDC out of sheer stubborness

I don't think that's stubborness. He liked his way better and it was the best way he felt to give his band the props it deserved.

I think Clay has a very good idea of what he will do and won't do and sticks with it. But he has been known to also change things that don't work. I've always loved how his shows evolved because he would fix what didn't work as he went along. And when he didn't change things - like not sing YWT - I don't think that's out of subborness or spite.

Career wise, I don't know.. doing JBT every year, not going to places to be seen with the right people and photographed and hob nobbing... singing SLOOOOOOOOOOOOW songs when he has a choice.. heee. does that qualify as stubborn? Don't think so.

My auntie made me eat grits when I was little although I told her my mom didn't fix those things for me. I refused to eat them for the next 20 years. ha! Now that's stupid and stubborn cuz I love grits. hee.

Interrupting WDC? I'm confused! (Happens a lot, unfortunately. )

[ldyjocelyn]

Interrupting WDC? I'm confused! (Happens a lot, unfortunately. )

Hee, that's OK. During the Independent Tour, with Kelly, Clay first sang When Doves Cry. I want to say that when Clay was the "closer" for a particular show (ie., Kelly's set first, Clay's last), the band put a musical interlude toward the end of the song, and that was when Clay introduced the band. More than a few fans had problems with this, not because they felt the band didn't need recognition, but because they felt it ruined the "flow" of the song -- meaning, IMO, that Clay stopped being "hawt" at that moment to do those introductions. It wasn't a big deal to me, although I did laugh about it at the time.

If anyone can provide a clip via YouTube to help clayzy, that would be great.

[Jaycee]

"Oh, he once gave up meat for two years, so prolly he stubbornly refused to go to Clive's party or live in Los Angeles or cooperate with scum media, and therefore his career is in the toilet and it is all his fault" seems to be that bizarre storyline.

There is no thought on my mind that he would have seriously compromised his career due to that level of stubbornness, but I understand stubbornness, yet I couldn't have done what he did even as a teenager, the worst time of my stubbornness.

Maybe you're right and he exaggerated his stubbornness, but I can't speculate on that, I can only go by what he said happened.

And yes, every single person in this fandom is subjective to varying degrees, because that is what people do if they are "attached" to Clay the way we are. For my part, this is all just hot air blowing around and we can analyze all we want because if that is what gets us through another day in this fandom, then so be it, it isn't going to kill anyone and those who are annoyed by it, don't read it, no one is forced to read another person's post. Besides, none of this analyzing is going to affect or influence Clay, he has a mind of his own and he has a network of people who will guide and advise him. His experience in teaching special needs children has been, I believe, invaluable to him. It would have given him the tools to deal with unexpected situations. I think it also gave him the capacity to deal with the kind of people who are much more difficult to handle than any special needs child. He's not perfect but he can take care of himself. At the end of the day, he's still singing to me, and not worrying me at all, because I am not conceited enough as to think that he needs me to worry about him.

Personally, since I am more of a reader then a poster, I like to read a lot of different thoughts. We are here for Clay and to talk about Clay and it is much more interesting to read different ideas then to just read the same thing. I don't have an idea in the world how Clay feels about any of this, so anything I might say would only be what I think. I thought about writing down my thoughts but you will be happy to know that I talked myself out of it.

[djs111]

I think the word "stubborn" is a hot button for me since using it implies that the person applying the stubborn label is right, and the person who is deemed stubborn is wrong.

Really all that has happened is that the "stubborn" person didn't do what someone else wanted them to do. Implies some sort of superiority, and I sure don't see that. And flinging that label around when no one knows what really happened, or how Clay feels about how his life and career should go, seems, well, senseless at best.

Certainly it is interesting to hear conjecture about what if this or that, but the "stubborn" thing is pretty much illogical.

[aikim]

Nevermind...since the gerbil is finally off the wheel, might as well not throw him back on there.

Kim

[Couch Tomato]

I think the word "stubborn" is a hot button for me since using it implies that the person applying the stubborn label is right, and the person who is deemed stubborn is wrong.

Really all that has happened is that the "stubborn" person didn't do what someone else wanted them to do. Implies some sort of superiority, and I sure don't see that. And flinging that label around when no one knows what really happened, or how Clay feels about how his life and career should go, seems, well, senseless at best.

Certainly it is interesting to hear conjecture about what if this or that, but the "stubborn" thing is pretty much illogical.

well you said yourself it's a hot button issue for you. I don't think it is for most people - just another discussion point. Haven't seen absoluteness in the discussion.

I certainly don't mind discussing it. It's more interesting than say... his hair.

going out into the storm... I see you down there K. you're in charge .don't break anything

[KAndre]

Ooooo, this has been a looooong frickin' week! My new TV is up (though the frickin' cable itsn't working - I need AT&T U-verse so frickin' BAD!)

Stubborn? It's all relative...I sincerely believe that all coping mechanisms people develop work for them on some level - having a justified reputation as being stubborn can eliminate a lot of annoying people bugging you about stuff you don't wanna and ain't gonna do...compromise only if necessary. (Y'all can probably tell I'm a little biased). OK, quick question: how can one rodent type thing sort of eat the other rodent type thing? Semi-cannibalism? Hokay!

RCA? Totally indifferent one way or another. Prior to Clay, the only label I paid any attention to was Motown, and that was mainly for the style of music...turns out Barry Gordy was something of a son of a bitch - just like just about every other record dude out there. Anyway, to me it looks like everybody and their brother are starting their own record label these days - and push comes to shove the majority of working musicians don't have a major label contract. I personally think in his heart of hearts, Clay is an entertainer. Now what audience he plans on entertaining, I don't know. As long as it's public, I'll be there. And there hasn't been an online fan that has yet to convince me of their expertise.

Clay Aiken? Sings pretty all the frickin' time; can occasionally look real good; one of the good things in my life.

[Clayzy]

Ooooo, this has been a looooong frickin' week! My new TV is up (though the frickin' cable itsn't working - I need AT&T U-verse so frickin' BAD!)

Stubborn? It's all relative...I sincerely believe that all coping mechanisms people develop work for them on some level - having a justified reputation as being stubborn can eliminate a lot of annoying people bugging you about stuff you don't wanna and ain't gonna do...compromise only if necessary. (Y'all can probably tell I'm a little biased). OK, quick question: how can one rodent type thing sort of eat the other rodent type thing? Semi-cannibalism? Hokay!

RCA? Totally indifferent one way or another. Prior to Clay, the only label I paid any attention to was Motown, and that was mainly for the style of music...turns out Barry Gordy was something of a son of a bitch - just like just about every other record dude out there. Anyway, to me it looks like everybody and their brother are starting their own record label these days - and push comes to shove the majority of working musicians don't have a major label contract. I personally think in his heart of hearts, Clay is an entertainer. Now what audience he plans on entertaining, I don't know. As long as it's public, I'll be there. And there hasn't been an online fan that has yet to convince me of their expertise.

Clay Aiken? Sings pretty all the frickin' time; can occasionally look real good; one of the good things in my life.

Partial eat-age, I imagine... My family used to have a zillion gerbils when I was little (yeah... never get two gerbils and trust the pet store employee when he says that they're the same gender) and one of the females was rather nutty and sort of ate her babies. Came home from school one day, looked in on the babies and went... where's the other half of that baby?

We had some cuddly gerbils and some mean ones. They were the devil to find if they ever got out of their cages. Unfortunately the sweetest one we ever had got out of his cage and found his way into a box fan. That was sad.

Not to be all depressing or anything. :o

[claytonic]

RCA? Totally indifferent one way or another. Prior to Clay, the only label I paid any attention to was Motown, and that was mainly for the style of music...

turns out Barry Gordy was something of a son of a bitch

- just like just about every other record dude out there. Anyway, to me it looks like everybody and their brother are starting their own record label these days - and push comes to shove the majority of working musicians don't have a major label contract. I personally think in his heart of hearts, Clay is an entertainer. Now what audience he plans on entertaining, I don't know. As long as it's public, I'll be there. And there hasn't been an online fan that has yet to convince me of their expertise.

Have you read the book "Dreamgirls" by Mary Wilson? I couldn't put it down, I then read everything I could find on Berry Gordy. Of course, the book is from Mary's perspective, but some of the stuff about Florence Ballard was... interesting and scary... even if only half of what Mary said was true, it painted a certain kind of picture of Gordy. Of course, Berry's very close friend Smokey Robinson (who named his own son after Berry) was furious at the way the Berry Gordy character (played by Jamie Foxx) was depicted in the movie Dreamgirls.

Anyway, if Clay's happy, I'm happy. Maybe I will forever remain the only person in the fandom who has never seen him live but I can live with that because I have his CDs, I have his YT stuff on tap and I have all those DVDs you sent me which are more carefully stored away than anything else I have on disk. Que sera sera ...

djs111: Maybe the word "stubborn" has stronger implications to you than it does for me. As a stubborn person myself (albeit less so now that I am older), I just think it is part of my personality that works in my favor sometimes, and doesn't at other times. When it isn't my friend, I just think about it and learn from it. It's just a part of life. I don't think anything I have been stubborn about has resulted in something terrible. I just made bad decisions at times. We all do.

[spikesmom]

I'm so far behind that I can't comment on everything - not that I do usually anyway...

But on the stubborn issue: I'd like to think he's learned enough in his life to pick his stubborn battles. Who knows if he was asked to do something that would compromise his values/morals. If so, then I can totally understand being stubborn. I don't have a problem with stubborn if it's for the right reasons and I don't know what his were - assuming he was actually playing the stubborn card. I know no one was saying he was wrongly/incorrectly being stubborn - just my thought.

Clooney, Pitt - eh, can take them or leave them. I did find a little Robert Downey Jr. love after Ironman... I kinda like Bill Pullman (Independence Day, While You Were Sleeping). And I love me some Hugh Laurie... especially when I can hear his natural voice. Oh yeah.

Cute puppie anna! And Gnocchi would be a cute name (assuming you are thinking of that)! I love gnocchi...

[luckiest1]

We had some cuddly gerbils and some mean ones. They were the devil to find if they ever got out of their cages. Unfortunately the sweetest one we ever had got out of his cage and found his way into a box fan. That was sad.

Eeep, reminds me of my daughter's hamster. He used to run in one of those plastic balls, around the house. One day he went down the stairs and the ball opened and he escaped. We found him a few days later behind the washing machine. It wasn't pretty, I think he'd ingested laundry soap or something.

I know we've discussed Slumdog Millionaire, the movie, but has anyone read the book? It was previously published as "Q & A" but has, of course, been rereleased as "Slumdog Millionaire". The differences are apparent just by reading the back cover.....I think I may enjoy the book quite a bit more than the movie.

Looking forward to Amazing Race tonight.....but I think it's going to conflict with the Oscars. I'm going to be doing a lot of channel flipping!

[Bella19]

Looking forward to Amazing Race tonight.....but I think it's going to conflict with the Oscars. I'm going to be doing a lot of channel flipping!

Me too! I actually checked to make sure that TAR was on and it is, but it's one hour earlier. I think I may watch a dvd tonight, if I get tired of channel flipping.

[wandacleo]

Clay looks happy.

Good enough for me.

[Clayzorback]

I think the word "stubborn" is a hot button for me since using it implies that the person applying the stubborn label is right, and the person who is deemed stubborn is wrong.

Really all that has happened is that the "stubborn" person didn't do what someone else wanted them to do. Implies some sort of superiority, and I sure don't see that. And flinging that label around when no one knows what really happened, or how Clay feels about how his life and career should go, seems, well, senseless at best.

Certainly it is interesting to hear conjecture about what if this or that, but the "stubborn" thing is pretty much illogical.

You're kidding right? Bwahaa!!!! Clay is most definitely one stubborn diva man. Now, if Kelly Clarkson can get away with calling Clay a diva or princess, then I guess I should get a pass, seeing as how I am a fan.

I find it incredable that some of you would call Clay a liar. He most definitely said his fans cost him radio play. Perhaps he was lying but he did say it. It is not my words, I just agree with him. IIRC it was a fan who reported him saying that in a M&G. However, you all know how my memory is. I'm not going to go searching for where he said it, but come on. Love me or hate me you should know after 6 years I don't have a reputation for being a liar. He also said the other things I mentioned he said.

Which part of my posts did you agree with, couchie? You said you didn't agree with most of it. So does that mean you agree with something? That gives me hope. I would be shocked if anyone on here, or any other board, ever agreed with me at all. That has been my experience on message boards. It usually doesn't take more than 5 seconds for someone to come swooping in to tell me they don't, and point out the error of my thinking. It doesn't bother me anymore. Used to hurt my feelings, but now it just rolls off my back and does'nt cause me one minute of discomfort. Nor do I feel the need to explain myself over and over again anymore. I'm not a 24/7 susie sunshine type of gal. I see both sides of issues, negative and positive and that is how I post.

I haven't ventured to other boards but I can just imagine what they are saying. I don't think Clay can't/won't have a career but I don't think it will be of the superstar magnitude he once had is all. It may be something I won't want to follow, as closely as I once did. However, I hold him in high regards regardless of what I might joke around and say about him or even when I seriously get put out by him. Which I have. I haven't forgotten my one lone trip to see Spamalot. HaHaHa! I love the kid. He deserved a shot and he got it. He's got this far, now the ball is in his court, as to whether he suceeds or not. I feel I've done my part and about all I can to help him. I have others in my real life who depend on me too. So., Take it away Clay...........Do Your Thang!!!!

I don't understand how a fan of Clay's can be involved on message boards and not have things filtered through other fans past behavior, or present. I can see not wanting to talk about it, perhaps. However, to just ignore things that have happened in this fandom over the past six years? Like they never happened, and certain people should just be forgiven and given a pass for their behavior? Especially, when they were so, so wrong about things they did to hurt Clay? You people are a better person than me. I don't sit and rag about it all the time, but I won't forget it or stop resenting it. Bet Clay won't either. I couldn't consider myself a fan of Clay's if I wasn't totaly disgusted with what some of his fans have done, supposedly in his name. I understand you people want to move on, but not everyone is ready or willing to. Clay's lost a lot of fans due to other fans behavior towards them. People should be honest about that if nothing else. Let fans express their disappointment or concerns. What harm does it do in the grand scheme of things? Really? If Clay doesn't want to hear it then he shouldn't read the boards. In fact he should of quit reading them 5 years ago IMHO. *g* I don't think I have ever said anything about him that I wouldn't say to his face if he asked me about it. Like I said he doesn't have to like me personaly for me to be a fan of his talent.

He is stubborn, and at times he is also lazy. He knows it, I know it, his mother knows it, why try to stiffle discussion about it?

What happened to ANSAMCW-Jenna-claygasm and a few others? I really miss them on this board. I hope they are still Clay fans.

[annabear]

Posted by dotsomeis at the OFC, with permission to travel:

I attended a performance last night [Friday] in New York of Lincoln Center's American Songbook series, An Evening with Alan Mencken. Some of you may recall that Mencken wrote the music for "Proud of Your Boy" and appeared on the Aladdin DVD with Clay.

One of the songs Mr. Mencken performed was, in fact, "Proud of Your Boy." He gave a very touching intro to it, and mentioned that Clay Aiken participated in the recording of the song for the DVD. Those of you who have watched the DVD know that it was emotional for the writers.

Also, Sean was played percussion in Mr. Mencken's 4-piece band!

It was a great event.

[FromClaygary]

Looking forward to Amazing Race tonight.....but I think it's going to conflict with the Oscars. I'm going to be doing a lot of channel flipping!

Me too! I actually checked to make sure that TAR was on and it is, but it's one hour earlier. I think I may watch a dvd tonight, if I get tired of channel flipping.

OMGoodness, thank you! I would have been choked if I'd missed it.

[jamar1700]

Hopefully my last post on the mini-pc.

I just bought an iMac!

eta....this edit brought to you by Apple!

[Couch Tomato]

I didn't point out the error of your thinking. I just don't agree with it. That's all. And I don't agree with the construction of your arguments to make Clay a co-signer in all you find wrong with the fandom. Lord knows I have a love/hate relationship with the fandom - I have a six year record on that but I'm still here enjoying myself on daily basis so I've always found that the good outweighs the bad. I know that your feelings are colored by some online wars that seemed to have gotten really personal over the years. Fortunately I've just never been engaged in that sort of thing.

Just have your say - accusing everyone else of calling Clay a liar probably won't help you engage. You can believe what you want. Others can believe what they want.

If someone posts after you they aren't swooping down. Do you want a conversation or should people just ignore you. I don't believe the conversations going on today are constructed around your posts at all - we are all just sharing.

As for Clay being lazy - whatever. I wish I was that lazy that I can do the things he's done over the years. But I really wish you wouldn't insinuate things about Clay or Faye or his business that suggest some sort of personal relationship. Maybe I'm misreading you but it often feels that way to me.

People come and go. Whether they are on this board or not I'm in touch with all. I consider all three you mentioned friends. And they are all still fans of Clay. If you miss them, you can always let them know. Boards change. People change. People find boards that fit them better. Some find things in their life that utilizes their time more. I think since most of us came here from somewhere else that is something very easy to understand.

ETA: even in the hottest heat of 2006 - i never stopped loving this fandom. I roll my eyes a lot - a whole lot - and will speak to specific things when the irk me - but yeah I am not sitting on any resentments that rise to the level that I think of them whenever I'm discussing Clay. There may be some people out there that I won't read a post even when it shows up in my facebook unexpectedly but I'm just pretty darn good at moving on and not holding grudges about things that aren't life or death.

Jamar: You got a MAC? It's just such a PC world that I'm scared to get a MAC. Mac Lovers let me know..I may consider it for the next computer.

[clayzedover]

WTF???

http://www.amazon.com/Playlist-Very-Best-C...4&sr=1-1#mo

[Couch Tomato]

bwah..well I guess RCA will release an album every few months..they sure have a lot of Clay songs. And no I won't be boycotting - hope tears run dry is in there.

[clayzedover]

Are Sony and RCA still together, or are they also divorced?