# 10 It isn't so easy to get your knickers off when they're in a knot.

[YSRN]

I am kicking myself now for buying that SONY 13 years ago. It isn't showing any signs of giving up the ghost anytime soon.

God, me too! Not to mention that sucker is HEAVY and I'm always moving it from one side of the room to the other. Never.satisfied.

However, my little Sony in my office doesn't even have a DVD connector on the back - that's how friggin' long they last - so I'm thinkin' that's reason enough to trade that sucker in for at least a small flatscreen. Ya think?

White garter, please. I'd like to depure all over again. What? That's not a word? Pfft.

Oooo, CG, that sounds like a fun job. Even IF there was no Clay involved. If nothing else, you'll get some good story out of it though, eh?

[Claygasm]

I asked this on the t-shirt thread but I am wondering,

Since Clay took it upon himself to rename this tour, should we have a new t-shirt design?

I mean, think of the possibilities! The graphics could be very interesting.

Maybe we could even use something like this:

What? It doesn't show his face!

[bottlecap]

I feel like I should post a bit of an apology. I admit I didn't really care about the OFC MB being down, as I don't post there and haven't always appreciated things I have read there in the past. I neglected to consider that the regular posters at the OFC (save for a few bad apples) have their own communities and groups of friends, and that the rug was really pulled out from underneath them. Some of the OFC posters that a made pitstops at CV over the week-end made me more cognizant of that fact. Nobody should have to lose their home because of a few sadly persistent cockroaches in the basement. As Clay said: "Bug spray people!" I'm sorry that I was thoughtless.

Hey, I even added a picture to my profile and an avi and actual made a post at the OFC yesterday! RAWK ON OFC peeps!

[ldyjocelyn]

{{{{{{{{{bottlecap}}}}}}}} You're a good, good person.

I am kicking myself now for buying that SONY 13 years ago. It isn't showing any signs of giving up the ghost anytime soon.

To you, YSRN and other Sony owners: my husband's Sony TV, bought in 1991, died 2 years ago (therefore allowing us to buy a 45" LCD High-Def TV). The TV in my office, from RCA, also bought in 1991, is still plugging along. *sigh* I would say there's hope for you. *g*

I'm in for a red garter, even if I can't go to Vegas.

I asked this on the t-shirt thread but I am wondering,

Since Clay took it upon himself to rename this tour, should we have a new t-shirt design?

I mean, think of the possibilities! The graphics could be very interesting.

Maybe we could even use something like this:

What? It doesn't show his face!

BWAH!!! But I think at this point, the tour will always be the DCAT. I'd love to have that shirt though -- would the graphic move like that? *g*

[KAndre]

The way I justified the purchase of my new TV - my mother's tv's (purchased sometime in the '80's) cord was frayed enough to shock people. She was willing to tape it up - I went no, no, no, here have my perfectly fine 27 in Sony TV/VCR combo that's only like 10 years old and will outlast my mother, me and everyone else in the family. I now just need to find another relative so I can get rid of the 32" CRT (which weighs a billion pounds).

Why the hell can't we just throw the things away?

[luckiest1]

Hee, I was bad. I had my grandmother's old colour RCA tv, and the damned thing was working fine. Problem was, it was so old, you couldn't use a cordless remote with it. And of course it did not have the right jacks for a DVD player. So when my son bought me a DVD-R for Christmas, I used that as my excuse to throw the thing in the garbage. Of course, it disappeared from the curb before the truck came the next morning. So maybe someone is still enjoying it's use? Unfortunately, I couldn't fit a larger screen TV in my cabinet, so I didn't end up with anything bigger. But it's definitely nicer!

At work, I got a beautiful 22 inch wide screen monitor for no reason at all! It wasn't even my decision. But man, do my wallpapers look good on it.

[rcknrllmom]

I asked this on the t-shirt thread but I am wondering,

Since Clay took it upon himself to rename this tour, should we have a new t-shirt design?

I mean, think of the possibilities! The graphics could be very interesting.

Maybe we could even use something like this:

What? It doesn't show his face!

okay, i just forgot wth I was doing!!

[laughn]

Ok, is anyone else straining (speaking of straining) to see just a little more to the 'left' every time the *cough* leg moves in that direction? Like I'm trying to look around the corner or something. (this could be what's causing my neck ache today. lol)

Yes, it's time to get a life...demmnit!

[muskifest]

I'd love to have that shirt though -- would the graphic move like that? *g*

Only if Clay wore it as boxers....while singing WDC....after grinding with Angela.

heh

and laughn....:lmaosmiley-1: I guffawed out loud here at work when I read this:

Ok, is anyone else straining (speaking of straining) to see just a little more to the 'left' every time the *cough* leg moves in that direction?

because I've been doing that 'little more to the left' move for about three years now---every damned time I star....er, glance at that gif. Guess the videographer was taking a moment there and couldn't keep the camera steady on the prize, huh?

BWAH and BWAH! So if upon meeting me for the first time, you see a tilt to my posture, you'll know why.

ETA: holyshit. An EAYOR woman did a montage at youtube. Careful....although it's not Clay singing, listen to the words and die many 'little deaths' while watching...whoa.

Edited June 12, 2007 by muskifest

[Ansamcw]

Hey for those interested....apparently Kelly has fired her managers.

I find this very interesting cos this was the same team that Clay left. I know lots of people were saying Clay was better off with them because they were more aggressive. Well I always thought that they seem to be commercializing Kelly to much and may be overworking her.

I also found this interesting cos it would seem like Kelly may not be happy with the current state of her relationship with RCA...and instead of quiting RCA...she fires her managers. VERY interesting indeed.

Wouldn't it be funny if she joins SAM...hee.

[muskifest]

Wouldn't it be funny if she joins SAM...hee.

Interesting....bedfellows...to be sure....

[playbiller]

This is US magazine - can we believe it is true? Sometimes these magazines gasp make things up.

ETA never mind, I see that People confimed it with the firm.

Interestingly he was co-Ep with Kelly on the new album. Things should be interesting.

Edited June 12, 2007 by playbiller

[lightmyfire]

This is US magazine - can we believe it is true? Sometimes these magazines gasp make things up.

Per HDD:

CLARKSON-KWATINETZ SPLIT: Amid a swirling media controversy and the imminent release of her third RCA album, My December, Kelly Clarkson has split with The Firm’s Jeff Kwatinetz as her manager. Clarkson made a point of telling interviewers she’s either written or co-written the material on the new album, but the first single, “Never Again,” met with a lackluster radio reception, while ticket sales for her upcoming tour are reportedly lagging as well. With relations increasingly tense between Clarkson and her label, someone had to take the fall, and it turned out to be Kwatinetz. Insiders say they warned the manager not to put himself in the middle of that kind of high-profile showdown, as he did with Clarkson and previously, Linkin Park. Clarkson’s last album, 2004’s Breakaway, sold 6 million copies in the U.S. and 10 million worldwide. The new album will come out as scheduled June 26. Now, who will Clarkson turn to for management? Action to come, my friends. (6/12p)

[keepingfaith]

Hey for those interested....apparently Kelly has fired her managers.

I find this very interesting cos this was the same team that Clay left. I know lots of people were saying Clay was better off with them because they were more aggressive. Well I always thought that they seem to be commercializing Kelly to much and may be overworking her.

I also found this interesting cos it would seem like Kelly may not be happy with the current state of her relationship with RCA...and instead of quiting RCA...she fires her managers. VERY interesting indeed.

Wouldn't it be funny if she joins SAM...hee.

Someone help me with this if I'm off base, but from what I know about contracts and the entertainment industry, I don't think the artist gets to quit unless there's a contract breach or unless the artist is happy to sit idle for the duration of the unexpired contract period, which could be years depending on the terms. You can fire your manager because they work for you ... but you can't fire the label because you work for them, and if you quit, you can't work for anybody else until the contract term expires, unless you were to have another label reach a monetary settlement with the original label for your release -- but for a successful artist the price would be astronomical. I assume that entertainment contracts have options so that upon certain periodic dates, the label can either drop the artist, or pick up the option to extend -- and there's nothing the artist can do about it. If you're not producing as expected you get booted, as was done with Tamyra Gray, Justin Guarini and, apparently, Bo Bice. If they give you the old heave-ho, you're free to make whatever new deals you want, but if you're popular and selling, well then they have you by the yin-yang. Times may have changed some things, but I doubt little has changed regarding who holds the aces. That's why railing against Sony/BMG/RCA/Clive etc. seems ridiculous to me -- they assume the risk, they make the rules and how much an artist gets to participate in the process depends on how good a lawyer he/she may have. Somehow I think Clay may have excellent representation, good enough to get him out of the 19 management deal anyway.

All I know are a few things about general contracts ... but I know that a contract can make you rich and tie your hands all at the same time. The nature of the beast.

[Ansamcw]

yup its all over...its on EW as well.

With just two weeks to go before the release of her much-anticipated (and recently leaked) third album, My December, EW.com has learned that Kelly Clarkson fired her management team Monday night (June 11). A SonyBMG source confirms the split between Clarkson and The Firm's Jeff Kwatinez, and hinted that internal bickering between SonyBMG and Clarkson about the songwriting and direction of My December likely played a role with their parting.

''He exacerbated a thermonuclear situation,'' says one source close to the situation. ''Jeff did everything he could to control Kelly and her career suffered. He should have steered her in the right direction.''

When reached for response, a spokesperson at RCA, Clarkson's label, had no comment.

With the single ''Never Again'' stalling on the charts and the album predicted to underperform, the timing of the firing says a lot about where Clarkson sees herself positioned in the pop world. She certainly hasn't been shy about sacrificing a bit of pop appeal for a more independent rock route (''I know it's not going to do what Breakaway did, 'cause it's not as mainstream. I get that. Some of the songs are not what 10-year-olds are probably going to listen to,'' Clarkson told EW earlier this year), but another insider says there were bigger problems than just specific songs. ''It's been a poor setup,'' claims the source. ''Tour markets were misread and all the fighting with the label has taken attention away from the one thing that matters: her music.''

In fact, another source suggests that the album, if it hasn't made its way to the pressing plant yet, may actually get shelved so that Clarkson and her label, headed by music legend Clive Davis, can reconsider some of the tracks. ''It's not too late,'' says the source. ''The label was supportive of Kelly in terms of putting the song out, but this album can't flop. She needs to get the right advice and counsel

Its funny cos you can already see the difference in the stories according to who is reporting. Apparently The Firm has a very good relationship with HDD so they have it slanted to the Firm while EW seem to be on RCA's side.

Clay was actually quoted in the Elle Kelly article as very suportive of Kelly...so I think they have been in touch through this time...wonder what he thinks of all this.

what I find very interesting is the reaction of the Clay fans...I have seen some real anti-RCA actually be on Clive's side on this. with clay saying Clive is suportive about the next CD and Kelly taking RCA's side over her managers..maybe RCA ain't that bad...

[lightmyfire]

You are correct keepingfaith Kelly can not fire RCA/19R.

I believe she made the right move..we shall see....

Edited June 12, 2007 by lightmyfire

[playbiller]

I thought we knew hpow Clay got out of the 19 deal. I thought he could prove that they did not forward offers to him, they just turned them down without giving hem a choice - hence not managing in his interest, but in the interest if another client. . i.e. a Letterman appearance that was turned down because he would not hire Ruben to appear, and that Rolling Stone had to offer a cover to Ruben to get one of Clay. Note: nothing in this is meant to be against Ruben, he and Clay were just supposed to do what they said.

ETA - I thought the firm and 19 are co-invovled and that Clay left just after the merger when his manager left the firm.

Edited June 12, 2007 by playbiller

[Ansamcw]

yup keepingfaith...my bad... she can't quit RCA, just lazy writing on my part. But she could certainly continue with her rebel artist stance and continue with this feud with Clive till the end. But by firing her manager , its clear she is wants to keep a good relationship with the label.

[keepingfaith]

yup its all over...its on EW as well.

With just two weeks to go before the release of her much-anticipated (and recently leaked) third album, My December, EW.com has learned that Kelly Clarkson fired her management team Monday night (June 11). A SonyBMG source confirms the split between Clarkson and The Firm's Jeff Kwatinez, and hinted that internal bickering between SonyBMG and Clarkson about the songwriting and direction of My December likely played a role with their parting.

''He exacerbated a thermonuclear situation,'' says one source close to the situation. ''Jeff did everything he could to control Kelly and her career suffered. He should have steered her in the right direction.''

When reached for response, a spokesperson at RCA, Clarkson's label, had no comment.

With the single ''Never Again'' stalling on the charts and the album predicted to underperform, the timing of the firing says a lot about where Clarkson sees herself positioned in the pop world. She certainly hasn't been shy about sacrificing a bit of pop appeal for a more independent rock route (''I know it's not going to do what Breakaway did, 'cause it's not as mainstream. I get that. Some of the songs are not what 10-year-olds are probably going to listen to,'' Clarkson told EW earlier this year), but another insider says there were bigger problems than just specific songs. ''It's been a poor setup,'' claims the source. ''Tour markets were misread and all the fighting with the label has taken attention away from the one thing that matters: her music.''

In fact, another source suggests that the album, if it hasn't made its way to the pressing plant yet, may actually get shelved so that Clarkson and her label, headed by music legend Clive Davis, can reconsider some of the tracks. ''It's not too late,'' says the source. ''The label was supportive of Kelly in terms of putting the song out, but this album can't flop. She needs to get the right advice and counsel

Its funny cos you can already see the difference in the stories according to who is reporting. Apparently The Firm has a very good relationship with HDD so they have it slanted to the Firm while EW seem to be on RCA's side.

Clay was actually quoted in the Elle Kelly article as very suportive of Kelly...so I think they have been in touch through this time...wonder what he thinks of all this.

what I find very interesting is the reaction of the Clay fans...I have seen some real anti-RCA actually be on Clive's side on this. with clay saying Clive is suportive about the next CD and Kelly taking RCA's side over her managers..maybe RCA ain't that bad...

This is going to be an interesting development. Knowing how much some fans dislike both Clive and Kelly, I'm curious to see whom of the two they dislike the most!! HA!

What I find strange about Kelly is that she claimed she's never been in love and never spoken the words "I love you" romantically .... and, if that's true, where's the anger coming from in her new album?

[Ansamcw]

I thought we knew hpow Clay got otut of the 19 deal. I thought he could prove that they did not forward offers to him, they just turned them down without giving hem a choice - hence not managing in his interest, but in the interest if another client. . i.e. a Letterman appearance that was turned down because he would not hire Ruben to appear, and that Rolling Stone had to offer a cover to Ruben to get one of Clay. Note: nothing in this is meant to be against Ruben, he and Clay were just supposed to do what they said.

ETA - I thought the firm and 19 are co-invovled and that Clay left just after the merger when his manager left the firm.

I don't think we know anything for sure. I think all of that are just speculation. He left The Firm with Simon Renshaw who was his manager under The Firm. He surely had the choice to stay with The Firm but ended up leaving as well for a much smaller set up. I really didn't think he was a good fit for The Firms corporate style.

[playbiller]

I sweart I thought this happened around when they merged, only Dudley istelling me there was no merger. I wonder what all that joint Elvis ownership talk was about them.

Edited June 12, 2007 by playbiller

[Ansamcw]

Well she did say that NA was written 2 years ago. So the only reason to still sing it now is if its still relevant. BUT if she was never in love??? I would say that was a strange choice.

I really like Kelly...I just was not too happy with her cd. I listened to the leaked tracks...and only liked one and was ok with two...the rest was disappointing. I really think it was too soon for her to go solo on the writing of the songs.

[Ansamcw]

But he left the firm just after or just before the merger, that much I do know.

Yup I do think Simon was not happy with the direction they were going. I think The Firm is actually thinking of starting their own label. Creating too much conflict of interest for the artist.

[Claygasm]

This is going to be an interesting development. Knowing how much some fans dislike both Clive and Kelly, I'm curious to see whom of the two they dislike the most!! HA!

Ah yes. There are fans just salivating at the thought that Kelly might fail, yet they're torn because that would mean Clive was right and they want him to fail too.

What to do. What to do.

I hate the way so many Clay fans hate Kelly. What did she ever do to them? I mean she wasn't even on Clay's season of AI! They are obviously very close friends (though some fans seem to be in denial about that too....). You would think Clay being so close to her would be good enough for them. But no. They are just so damn jealous that thus far she has been more successful than Clay.

I think the article saying that Kelly's career has suffered may be a bit premature, though. Her album will still sell millions I bet. Not as many as "Breakaway" though and she may not get the constant radio play she did with that album, but it will sell multi-platinum I bet. Trouble is, when you have a mega-hit like she did, she becomes a tough act to follow - even for herself.

You know, we always applaud Clay for following his heart, for standing up for what he believes in. Well, I applaud Kelly. If she "fails", at least she failed on her terms. I am sure she could have made another "Breakaway" and been all over the radio again. But in her mind I suspect that would be selling out. I admire her for not doing that. I am even tempted to buy her album just because of that.

[Clayzorback]

Do I remember correctly, that the guy who headed up the Firm had a drug controversy surrounding him? Cocaine? Something about him not taking things seriously? Or am I tired from laundry and having a brain fart? I have those a lot you know....

Breakaway, sold 6 million copies in the U.S. and 10 million worldwide.

Question. Did breakaway sell a total of 16 million or a total of 10 million? With 6 being in US and 4 being overseas?

Not a fan of Kelly's really. I always thought Clay would have longer longevity but I could be wrong. Carrie Underwood could outlast them both. LOL Don't hit me............