# 10 It isn't so easy to get your knickers off when they're in a knot.

[keepingfaith]

To beat the dead Page 6 one more time with feeling, I was told that the reason the reference to synchronized swimming under the Eiffel Tower became a focus for so many is because the International Gay & Lesbian Aquatic Games, featuring synchonized swimming, was being held in Paris ... and that was the reason for the snark in the gossip item, and why some people were so riled about it. But if you didn't already know about it, or Google something in the reference, how would people know this? And I think the games were over well before Clay went to Paris, so this was just a snarky remark by an idiot.

All in all, much ado about nothing, why does anyone care .... and, Laughn, this is brilliant and hilarious:

I told her to tell them that since he doesn't sing out of his penis I really don't care to keep track of what he does with that part of his body. (...and BTW, if he ever does, I wouldn't want to see the blood bath at Ticketmaster for front row seats.)

Edited June 13, 2007 by keepingfaith

[YSRN]

WORD ANSA

IMO there is nothing on the surface wrong with having a board like OC because even broaching the subject on most boards is a big fat no no. And I'm sure there are people like me who know people who are gay, choose to live a gay lifestyle, all their friends know about it, but their parents are still wondering when the marriage and babies are going to arrive. It's a deeply personal and emotional issue for a lot of people therefore it has the makings of interesting discussion. It may not be our business but we have named Clay's penis which is also a bit intrusive (yet fun heeeee). But I'm sure that doesn't sit well with some.

Take him at his word is a wonderful thing -- that's the philosphy I believe in. Having a difference of opinion, philosophy, or mindset and expressing it about anything in this fandom or about Clay should be ok. If people get pissed and mad because of something you express really, that's too bad. If someone thinks Clay is gay and will come out of the closet one day... really, WHO THE FREAK CARES. If it's on a board where that opinion is acceptable to say or discuss openly then fine.

If I think the mindless Clay conspracies are STUPID so what. (CLay was used to bring people into the stores tosell Daughtey? uh ok. STUPID!) That's just my opinion. I think the constant spying and policing of boards you don't even belong to, sharing their words all over out of context, contributes to the hostile environment. But that's another issue.

Ideas? Ok! Expression OK? What's not ok is to target people, harrass them, post their pictures and laugh. post addresses, intimidate, or generally cause mischief elsewhere or force your opinion down the throats of others in an agressive, hostile way. I would think people who do any of these things should be called out. I would think all of Clay Nation would be outraged even if you agree with their general philosphy.

I'm abhored by the treatmeant the Clayzorback told us about that she received at the hands of Chexxxys. And she isn't the only one. I know of 3 people who were targeted. Yet even Clazorback didn't want to type out their name? Why? I feel that sometimes I am being equated with that board and I cry foul at that right now. I actually believed 80% of the stuff in the original Chexxxy's blog but the blog comments were vile and had already started calling out people by name, lots of them people I knew. And you know what, some of the people being called out, well I won't be inviting them over to dinner myself. But where does it end. The first time I hear they harrased somebody I knew I removed that blog from my blog links and from FCA. I just don't endorse that kind of action. And I don't censor. There are only 3 Clay sites that I have refused to advertise. I don't care about content. I care about action and only on that basis have I refused to list a site.

ETA: This is a general post. I don't even know the policy of OFC and what is allowed and what isn't. As the official fan site of Clay I do think that is a different animal and should be for the most part a happy happy place. There are other places to get into serious topics. New fans should not have to jump right into the fray of the crazy ass world of Clay fans. But that is Clay's call and once decided that's it. The people who are then combative and hostile and posting to get a rise out of people should face the consequences of their ACTIONS. I hope that's clear.

That was hot! (tm Paris Hilton)

ooo... my ebirdie de-aliased. :F_05BL17blowkiss:

And that goes for all of you!

I'm never gonna catch up, am I? I hate work. Wah! I wanna post tooooo!

I leave with the vision of a singing penis in my head, thankyouverymuch.

Edited June 13, 2007 by YSRN

[muskifest]

I leave with the vision of a singing penis in my head, thankyouverymuch

And I'm waiting to see how long it takes playbiller to find a smiley of this very thing.

ETA: Oh, and laughn?

(...and BTW, if he ever does, I wouldn't want to see the blood bath at Ticketmaster for front row seats.)

ONLY front row? After four years of pictures and videos, I imagine more than just the first row would be good seats for THAT show...

Edited June 13, 2007 by muskifest

[Ansamcw]

WORD couchie

I do understand the need to rant and I am certainly guilty of criticizing other fans behavior. BUT what is totally UNACCEPTABLE...is the need to cyber bully, cyber stalk, harrass fans that are not up to some peoples standards or even do that to haters. What makes it worse is that they are doing this in Clay's name and as Clay fans. Don;t they realize that their action reflects so badly on him and on the fandom in general? Don't they realize that there is a human being with friends and family behind every SNs on the board that deserves respect? Clay would certainly be appalled by this behavior and every Clay fan should be appalled and work to stop this behavior.

((((Clayzor, fullyfunctional and others that went through this kind of harassment.)))

[laughn]

ETA: Oh, and laughn?

(...and BTW, if he ever does, I wouldn't want to see the blood bath at Ticketmaster for front row seats.)

ONLY front row? After four years of pictures and videos, I imagine more than just the first row would be good seats for THAT show...

OMG, I must be tired...It took me a minute and then I

You're correct of course muskifest...I would imagine even the peeps in row 20 wouldn't need binoculars.

Couch Tomato... (favorite parts of a great post)

Take him at his word is a wonderful thing -- that's the philosphy I believe in. Having a difference of opinion, philosophy, or mindset and expressing it about anything in this fandom or about Clay should be ok. If people get pissed and mad because of something you express really, that's too bad. If someone thinks Clay is gay and will come out of the closet one day... really, WHO THE FREAK CARES. If it's on a board where that opinion is acceptable to say or discuss openly then fine.

<snip>

Ideas? Ok! Expression OK? What's not ok is to target people, harrass them, post their pictures and laugh. post addresses, intimidate, or generally cause mischief elsewhere or force your opinion down the throats of others in an agressive, hostile way. I would think people who do any of these things should be called out. I would think all of Clay Nation would be outraged even if you agree with their general philosphy.

[Couch Tomato]

You're correct of course muskifest...I would imagine even the peeps in row 20 wouldn't need binoculars.

Now that's just dirty <TM CHA but with a sly smile>

[rcknrllmom]

On the subject of the OFCMB, there is a thread with well over 200 responses now, in The Man, begging Clay to sing LAL on the tour. I don't have a problem with people expressing their love for the song, but I tend to get a little bit put off by all the posts expressing how disappointed they will be if he doesn't sing it. How about just waiting until the first show and being happy about what he does choose to sing?

But that's just me, being a bitch again.

would I love he sang it, of course....would I be disappointed if he didnt? Nope....

[cindilu2]

So far OFCMB is reminding me of that old Barney song.......I love you, you love me, we're a happy family......how long can that possibly last?

I'm behind, but had to respond to this. How long?? Oh, prolly until the second verse kicks in..

'then a shot rang out and Barney hit the floor, no more purple Di-No-Saur...'

:medium-smiley-070:

[playbiller]

yes, Muskie, I have seen a singing penis, I don't know where but I had.

The grand fight

There are so many fights going on

the fight to manage Clay's career - fans vs professionals - and, no, the fans are not the professionals I am speaking about.

The fight to define Clay's sexuality - we all know this one

The fight to define Clay msically - we also know this one, I hope people some day realize that Clay has to evolve on his own and can not be defined by a few fans.

The fight to ship Clay - This is my personal Ick, I don't mean jokes of little fantasies, there are people who are doing some very serious shipping out there and won't be questioned.

The fight about Clay's family and friends - there are people wh think Clay's family and /or friends influence him too much - well, until you are in that group, I don't think you get a vote!

There are so many useless battles, I wonder if some people will ever recognize the peace. I don't think it will ever be possible for Clay to produce and album that just gets welcomed.

[ldyjocelyn]

I must be the only one not quoted by ldyjocelyn! Oh wait you have to post to be quoted

See -- not all that hard, really. I'm glad you posted so I can quote you...and you know what? I'm looking forward to seeing Clay too! I'm in the "don't care" camp -- he could do the entire concert standing on his head, and I'd be perfectly happy. (And hey -- Waldo would be that much closer to the microphone on the mic stand then! Hee)

It seems to me if you try to hide all the negative crap, or worse, fight about it, you give it more power...and any power is more than it deserves. For me, it's better to read it, figure out what that one kernel of truth might be, snort at the stupidity, laugh if you can, wrinkle your face in disgust, then move on...

In my mind, this kind of goes against the grain of "ignore, ignore, ignore" -- but yet, it also makes perfect sense to me. Do I go looking for crap comments on my man Clay Aiken? Nope. But when I do stumble upon one, I'll generally get the gist of it, and then do as laughn says -- either snort, laugh, wrinkle, and MOVE ON!!! It doesn't seem that hard to me, but it must be to others. But, I'll keep saying it over and over again -- Clay doesn't need my protection.

Whatever. I actually can see why someone who's LOOKING for Clay being gay could look at that picture and apply some stereotypical "identifiers" to it so as to make them "conclude" that he is. But...when I look at that picture, the feelings I get have absolutely nothing to do with him not wanting to do wonderful heterosexual things to and with me.

So sue me.

To paraphrase Clay: people will see in him what they want to see in him. I do find it incredibly funny that sooooooo many people see in him "gay" and yet just as many see the total opposite.

I love Clay like I love chocolate cake and ducklings (and that's a LOT), but at no time do I take on any part of his life as my own personal battle. He's a strong man, and he appears to be telling us that he lets the annoying parts of life just roll off.

AMEN. :F_05BL17blowkiss: to you, Clayzor and the others who have been targeted.

I guess for me it all boils down to -- what is the freakin' point of it all? It just seems so crazy to me to want to go out and create havoc in other's lives like that. Doing it in Clay's name just makes it all that much more bizarre.

As for fan input, I think Clay does read the boards, but not as frequently or extensively as many fans think he does. Some things impact what he does. Some things don't. It's not a bad idea to see what fans think, but he has a better understanding of the realities of his own situation, and he has his own emotional, artistic, and business needs. I don't think anyone should become a slave to their fan demands.

Totally agree. I've seen it implied on boards that "Clay must be reading us!!!!" when something happens. Maybe he does...and maybe it's just happenstance, you know? It's also funny to joke around with that for a while, but when it gets repeated enough, I guess some start to believe it.

So true, fullyfunctional. It's very easy to lose perspective when one focuses too closely on the negative. Yes, there is a lot of evil in the world. However, there's also a lot of goodness and joy. I wish more people allowed themselves to experience it.

And in the end, goodness and joy is what makes this whole thing fun -- plus drooling over Clay.

I leave with the vision of a singing penis in my head, thankyouverymuch

And I'm waiting to see how long it takes playbiller to find a smiley of this very thing.

ETA: Oh, and laughn?

(...and BTW, if he ever does, I wouldn't want to see the blood bath at Ticketmaster for front row seats.)

ONLY front row? After four years of pictures and videos, I imagine more than just the first row would be good seats for THAT show...

Shoot, I think I could purchase a ticket for the cheap seats in the last balcony and be good to go on that one.

New title thread poll going up within the hour.....

[ldyjocelyn]

OK, poll is at the top of each page.....

[cindilu2]

Ha! First vote - so I'm 100% right at the moment.

[playbiller]

Here is a dancing one, not so much a singing one - let me know if I should not post this and I will change to a link

Edited June 13, 2007 by playbiller

[YSRN]

LOL!!!

That is frightening! That someone actually made it...

That thing looks like it's looking for water!

Edited June 13, 2007 by YSRN

[laughn]

playbiller...If I wasn't laughing so damn hard, I might be mortified by that thing...is that what they call vibrato??

[playbiller]

OK, here is a video

Waring - adult content - actual video of a real penis singing.

Edited June 13, 2007 by playbiller

[muskifest]

I'm thinking that's Clay during his Livin' La Vida Loca dancing....

[cindilu2]

BWAH!! I don't know about the new thread titles, but that fella sure suits THIS one.

[jmh123]

I am one of the members of the OFC that prefers discussion of Clay's sexuality to be off limits on the site.

For example, I am reminded of the disgusting, disgraceful tabloid media frenzy in Europe during Mercury's last days here on earth.

What positives/enhancements are provided by including facets of Clay's personal life to the site/message board? I am seriously attempting to understand the importance or need.

I don't think there is a positive. Ansa's already explained that wasn't her intent to say that there was, but it's still a good question. When I first got on the boards and learned that the topic of Clay's sexuality was not allowed, I didn't understand, but after reading several long debates on the subject at boards that did allow it, I came to understand, and then it was like, "Well, duh." No amount of debate is going to determine the answer to the question, and it's really kind of ridiculous to think that it would. The tabloids and haters seem to think it's because fans are afraid of the subject, but really, it's just that it's pointless for people to be debating on the basis of pure conjecture. Gaydar? It's been shown many times to be useless. There was a show for awhile on cable called, "Gay, Straight, or Taken," on which women would spent a good amount of time with each man before deciding who fit into which category. I never saw an episode on which they were able to pick the gay man. No stereotyped behavior they claimed they saw was an indicator, because--duh--outside of TV and theatre, and outside of the deliberately signalling behaviors you see now and then, there is no classic "gay" behavior.

I think one of the reasons Clay's sexual identification is so fascinating to pop culture is that to accept that he's straight might prove that people's gaydar is BS--and that bugs people. They want to feel that they can tell these things by looking at somebody, but life just isn't that simple.

I love Clay like I love chocolate cake and ducklings (and that's a LOT), but at no time do I take on any part of his life as my own personal battle. He's a strong man, and he appears to be telling us that he lets the annoying parts of life just roll off.

He's quite a man, isn't he?

I have seen some people I've been posting with for several years now slowly turn into paranoid, bitter people I don't even recognize. The fandom has apparently ceased to be a source of light hearted fun and celebration for them a long time ago. They've spent so much time dwelling in the muck and mire, keeping up with all the haters and swamp dwellers, that they believe that the entire world is an ugly, hateful place. It's amazing how trivial all the "hater" activity is when you just stop looking for it.

It's sad to see this happen. I wish there was some way to convince them to come out in the light. It's a much nicer world out here, and these things become surprisingly inconsequential very quickly.

I came across this Technorati blog chart yesterday, and it makes me smile. The latest tabloid flap is literally a blip on the radar compared to the excitement of his not appearing on the American Idol finale this year--heh.

More misc stuff--here's an article from the Denver Post on John Meyer that concludes with a Clay mention:

Mayer would have an uphill battle if he wanted to court the critics. Despite his training at Boston's prestigious Berklee College of Music, his breathy, guitar-based songs lean more toward adult contemporary than blues-rock. His audience consists largely of young women, and his personal life places him squarely in the tabloids.

"If he did things to appeal to the largely young, white-male rock critics he might lose his audience," Wallach said. "He knows which side his bread his buttered on, and would never do anything to alienate his core."

Of course, this assumes that pop stars like Clay Aiken or Rob Thomas need to appeal to rock critics. In many cases it would have no effect on their careers. And who says critics would even care?

"As a member of the press, I know we all need stuff to latch on to," Pitchfork's Phillips said. "But honestly, I'd much rather listen to most Britney Spears songs than most Strokes songs."

There was a time when Meyer and Thomas supposedly had much more "cred" than Clay, yet here they are lumped together. Interesting....

Edited June 13, 2007 by jmh123

[KAndre]

Hell, the MSN review of Macca's new CD mentions how Paul wasn't the "cool" one like Lennon...which is one of the the reasons I think both "coolness" and "cred" are a tad overrated...

[Ansamcw]

play...about that gif??? BWAH ...I will let ldyj or couchie figure that one out...hee.

so what exactly is the OFC rule about Clay's sexuality? I know we don't discuss the is he or isn;he question here in FCA...we just take him at his word but do discuss the ramifications of it...how it affects Clay and the fandom and why the fascination.

eta: Oh I like that little blurb jmh. Its interesting that I think some fans want Clay to get the cred Mayer gets...and apparently he also has a problem with that. Its all perspective I guess.

[Sally]

I have seen some people I've been posting with for several years now slowly turn into paranoid, bitter people I don't even recognize. The fandom has apparently ceased to be a source of light hearted fun and celebration for them a long time ago. They've spent so much time dwelling in the muck and mire, keeping up with all the haters and swamp dwellers, that they believe that the entire world is an ugly, hateful place. It's amazing how trivial all the "hater" activity is when you just stop looking for it.

WORD WORD WORD!

Thanks FullyFunctional for saying it so well. I had about given up on the boards until Cindilu and Carolina Clay pointed me in this direction.

:F_05BL17blowkiss:

[JennaZ]

eta: Oh I like that little blurb jmh. Its interesting that I think some fans want Clay to get the cred Mayer gets...and apparently he also has a problem with that. Its all perspective I guess.

Yeah, I think "cred" is all relative. A lot of popular artists never have "cred" among critics. Sometimes, just the fact that an artist is popular makes them "commercial" and therefore "uncool" among those with "artistic" pretensions.

FullyFunctional, Couchie -- you make some strong points about the bullies who expose people's public lives. It's bad enough to malign people known by their board names. However, IMHO, exposing their personal lives goes way over the line.

I'm with you on this:

As the official fan site of Clay I do think that is a different animal and should be for the most part a happy happy place. There are other places to get into serious topics. New fans should not have to jump right into the fray of the crazy ass world of Clay fans. But that is Clay's call and once decided that's it.

I'm glad there seems to be some attempt at civility, at least for now. I'm not saying it should be free of debate. I just think that a board associated directly with Clay should be a welcoming place.

[luckiest1]

So far OFCMB is reminding me of that old Barney song.......I love you, you love me, we're a happy family......how long can that possibly last?

I'm behind, but had to respond to this. How long?? Oh, prolly until the second verse kicks in..

'then a shot rang out and Barney hit the floor, no more purple Di-No-Saur...'

:medium-smiley-070:

BWAH cindilu2!

[artquest]

So, what songs would a singing penis sing? I mean, besides Touch?