# 10 It isn't so easy to get your knickers off when they're in a knot.

[rcknrllmom]

I have seen some people I've been posting with for several years now slowly turn into paranoid, bitter people I don't even recognize. The fandom has apparently ceased to be a source of light hearted fun and celebration for them a long time ago. They've spent so much time dwelling in the muck and mire, keeping up with all the haters and swamp dwellers, that they believe that the entire world is an ugly, hateful place. It's amazing how trivial all the "hater" activity is when you just stop looking for it.

WORD WORD WORD!

Thanks FullyFunctional for saying it so well. I had about given up on the boards until Cindilu and Carolina Clay pointed me in this direction.

:F_05BL17blowkiss:

Glad to see you here, too! I mostly lurk, I keep trying to not just lurk....one of these days I will have more than two minutes to sit down and maybe then I can put together a coherent thought or two!

and OH THREE WEEKS and I am on a plane to Houston!!!!!!!!! :TourExcite:

[luckiest1]

cindilu2, I don't see our discussion here condoning rampant speculation of Clay's sexuality as much as it is speaking out against cyber-bullying and condemning what seems like draconian measures against people who don't deserve to have their pictures posted and their private lives disturbed. The point is that if the OC is annoying to one, one does not have to go there. I don't understand why some of the "fighting warriors for Clay" keep visiting a board they so revile, but then again, I don't understand the urge of those same "warriors" to continue feeding at the trough of hate at the hate blogs either.

I really think there have been two separate topics here - cyber-bullying, and speculation about Clay's sexuality. Unfortunately, they intersect as some people cyber-bully because of the speculation. I agree with everyone here who's said that cyber-bullying is despicable, and it shouldn't be swept under the rug. HUGS to FullyFunctional and Clayzorback and anyone else who has been targeted.

On the topic of speculation about Clay's sexuality, I have to agree with everything cindilu2 has said. I find it disrespectful for a fan who is fully aware of Clay's stance on the matter to continue to do so, especially after all that's gone down in the past couple of years. However, I don't feel the need to get defensive over it - I know how to scroll, and to avoid those places that make it a topic of discussion. I also feel that sometimes, people lump "gay fans" into a generalized heap of those who like to speculate, and to me, that is wrong. Being gay or even gay-friendly doesn't make you less sensitive to what Clay's been through, or make you predisposed to want to speculate about his sexuality. Nor does it make you a cyber-bully by default. There is a lot of middle ground there.

Edited June 14, 2007 by luckiest1

[bottlecap]

Phew! I opened FCA with my eyes half closed this morning, 'cause I wasn't sure what kind of graphics might have, you know, popped up overnight. Some stuff might be a lettle difficult to explain at work...

Other than that, I have nothing articulate to say. Love you guys! :F_05BL17blowkiss: And,

[laughn]

On the topic of speculation about Clay's sexuality, I have to agree with everything cindilu2 has said. I find it disrespectful for a fan who is fully aware of Clay's stance on the matter to continue to do so, especially after all that's gone down in the past couple of years. However, I don't feel the need to get defensive over it - I know how to scroll, and to avoid those places that make it a topic of discussion. I also feel that sometimes, people lump "gay fans" into a generalized heap of those who like to speculate, and to me, that is wrong. Being gay or even gay-friendly doesn't make you less sensitive to what Clay's been through, or make you predisposed to want to speculate about his sexuality. Nor does it make you a cyber-bully by default. There is a lot of middle ground there.

So very true. I don't think anyone, any group, should be painted with broad strokes.

Pet peeve time...

Articles like the Star ('milk, duh!' smelly feet) and the Canoe/page6 (screeching diva) don't bother me nearly as much as little shit like this...

This was from an article in the News and Observer this morning about the guy trying to build up the North Carolina History Museum with a North Carolina Hall of Fame

Dream of fame is a long haul

So Poole acknowledges that expanding the hall of fame concept -- and making it interesting and engaging --would be challenging and expensive.

"But think of all the amazing people who have come from this state," he said.

There are the obvious superstars: Jesse Helms, Billy Graham, Michael Jordan and Clay Aiken. (Just kidding!)

At least with the diva crap or the sexual innuendo I pretty much consider the source, figure they're idiots in the first place and move along...but because this comes from a 'legitimate' news source I have sat around re-reading for an hour now trying to understand the dig..Is it really a dig? Why did she say that? Why be a snot? Maybe I'm misreading this thing. I better start over... *sigh*

Edited June 14, 2007 by laughn

[cindilu2]

cindilu2, I don't see our discussion here condoning rampant speculation of Clay's sexuality as much as it is speaking out against cyber-bullying and condemning what seems like draconian measures against people who don't deserve to have their pictures posted and their private lives disturbed. The point is that if the OC is annoying to one, one does not have to go there. I don't understand why some of the "fighting warriors for Clay" keep visiting a board they so revile, but then again, I don't understand the urge of those same "warriors" to continue feeding at the trough of hate at the hate blogs either.

Which is why I ended my post as I did - with my stance on the (disgusting) behaviour of those who did what you mention. The body of my post was in response to a specific statement, not the general conversation on the board. I personally have never even seen the OC site, or Chexxxy's, or even fff's. I wasn't fretting over their very existence. I don't 'defend' Clay to people, not on the net, and not IRL. (My standard answer to the is he? question is - a) he doesn't sing with his penis (how apropos!) and 2) either way, I'm not going to get to have sex with him, so why would I care?) I just wanted *my* position on the subject to be clear.

edited cuz it won't let me type B and ) - changes it to BWHAHA!

Edited June 14, 2007 by cindilu2

[jamar1700]

:F_05BL17blowkiss: Hey guys!

The work thing has been kicking my butt the last couple of days...as I knew it would. I've gone in early and stayed late since Monday. The good news is that the transition is over, the merge is complete and it took less time than expected. Minor problems have cropped up but with the help of the Tech Gods they've been easily fixed, worked around or not my problem! So when my Boss returned from said suspiciously time vacation last night and called me to find out how horrible it all had been I could (sorta truthfully) say ... ain't no thang but a chicken wing.

*whew*

---

Lots of interesting conversation here. I'm too time challenged to go back and do quotes...sorry.

I don't know nothin' 'bout this xxxxxy person or her blog and I'm sorta sure that I'm better off for it. I don't know much about the hater blogs either, definately better off for that. If I weren't on the boards I'd know nothin' 'bout 99.99 % of the crap and disses and drama and the angst.

When I was a kid and would whine or complain ... my Mama would ask "whose behavior can you change?" At the time I thought she was pushing me off with an easy platitude, but the older I got the more I embraced that rehtorical gem. In fact, it's probably the one thing that I can say, even now, that makes my kids eyes roll to the back of their heads. Simply because they heard it soooo often. But I know that for each of them it has hit home and they've all told me that it helped them deal with certain things in their life. And they've all found the hidden irony, as I did.

---

re : gaydar

Son #2 was a CC runner in HS & College. He's got a true runner's build. Muscular, but long and lean. 6'1 about a buck fifty. He's always been his own person and never did one thing because everyone else was doing it or because it was cool. He has his own out there fashion sense and eclectic tastes. And he pings that gaydar thing. Now, I don't care if anyone thinks my son is gay. I don't care if he is gay. I want my children to be happy and I don't feel I get to choose what makes them happy. That said, Son#2 is not gay. That doesn't stop gay men from approaching him in bars and other public areas. Most are very respectful & some apologetic when he politely turns them down. To his credit he doesn't get mad, he finds it odd but also oddly amusing. He always says it's nice to know if the whole hetro thing doesn't work out that he's got options. *g*

---

WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! It's getting closer and closer!

:Tour3: :Tour3: :Tour3:

Edited June 14, 2007 by jamar1700

[cindilu2]

re : gaydar

Son #2 was a CC runner in HS & College. He's got a true runner's build. Muscular, but long and lean. 6'1 about a buck fifty. He's always been his own person and never did one thing because everyone else was doing it or because it was cool. He has his own out there fashion sense and eclectic tastes. And he pings that gaydar thing. Now, I don't care if anyone thinks my son is gay. I don't care if he is gay. I want my children to be happy and I don't feel I get to choose what makes them happy. But the fact is that Son#2 is not gay. But that doesn't stop gay men from approaching him in bars and other public areas. Most are very respectful & some apologetic when he politely turns them down. To his credit he doesn't get mad, he finds it odd but also oddly amusing. He always says it's nice to know if the whole hetro thing doesn't work out that he's got options. *g*

I love your #2. BWAH. Good answer!

[KAndre]

Man, y'all are entertaining...

Twenty-one days and counting...

As for that NC Hall of Fame blurb...I first would have gone Jesse Helms?!??!?! That's who I would be up in arms over. I guess the author was trying to be funny...and failed miserably.

[Couch Tomato]

To his credit he doesn't get mad, he finds it odd but also oddly amusing. He always says it's nice to know if the whole hetro thing doesn't work out that he's got options. *g*

Wow, thanks for the story adn I love your son. Uh, how old is he again? I have a neice, gorgeous girl, college graduate... very smart except when it comes to the idiots she gets involved with.

As for that NC Hall of Fame blurb...I first would have gone Jesse Helms?!??!?! That's who I would be up in arms over. I guess the author was trying to be funny...and failed miserably.

I didn't get it either Because they said Clay last am I supposed to believe he's the only one not worthy of Hall of Fame. I didn't read it that way. I lumped that whole group in together and so none of it made sense. They tried a little too hard there. Kinda equate this with streching my brain around to get to the whole gay synchronized swimming connection. I would have lived to a hundred and five without gettting there.

[playbiller]

FYI for fans who becamse fans after 2003

The clayboard store is having a sale. They used to charge a lot for things, but now there are out of print copies for not much off of cost.

They have BTOW single for $7 and WTWNN for $8 - I don't want to tell you what I had to go therough to get a cracked sealed copy, these are nre.

store you are not going to get these too many opther places for this price.

I guess they must have bought a boatload.

Disclaimer: I have nothing to do with selling this stuff, I just think it is worth looking into if you want a copy and missed it.

[luckiest1]

FYI for fans who becamse fans after 2003

The clayboard store is having a sale. They used to charge a lot for things, but now there are out of print copies for not much off of cost.

They have BTOW single for $7 and WTWNN for $8 - I don't want to tell you what I had to go therough to get a cracked sealed copy, these are nre.

store you are not going to get these too many opther places for this price.

I guess they must have bought a boatload.

Disclaimer: I have nothing to do with selling this stuff, I just think it is worth looking into if you want a copy and missed it.

Wow, this is neat. I had no idea they even had a store!

[bottlecap]

Wow, this is neat. I had no idea they even had a store!

Yeap, last year I ordered the pre-MOAM stuff from the Clayboard store so I could have a complete collection of Clay's recordings for my clack collection. Still hoping it will all be eBay platinum someday when I need to finance my retirement... That's why we need to keep recruiting the younger fans - so when they are in their high-earning years, they'll buy all our "vintage" Clay stuff from us.

[Couch Tomato]

Wow, this is neat. I had no idea they even had a store!

Yeap, last year I ordered the pre-MOAM stuff from the Clayboard store so I could have a complete collection of Clay's recordings for my clack collection. Still hoping it will all be eBay platinum someday when I need to finance my retirement... That's why we need to keep recruiting the younger fans - so when they are in their high-earning years, they'll buy all our "vintage" Clay stuff from us.

Are you saying you found a clingle Bottle and the malingerer who promised to send you one a year ago is off the hook? Where is the I'm so embarrased emoticon?

[ldyjocelyn]

play, thanks for letting me know about that. I ordered two copies of WTWNN -- as I realized that I didn't have a copy of that in my collection. And like bottlecap, I've got to be complete, you know?

Wow, this is neat. I had no idea they even had a store!

Yeap, last year I ordered the pre-MOAM stuff from the Clayboard store so I could have a complete collection of Clay's recordings for my clack collection. Still hoping it will all be eBay platinum someday when I need to finance my retirement... That's why we need to keep recruiting the younger fans - so when they are in their high-earning years, they'll buy all our "vintage" Clay stuff from us.

We can only hope. Either that, or in my case my husband will be going through all this stuff after I'm dead and buried, tossing it in the trash.

[YSRN]

To his credit he doesn't get mad, he finds it odd but also oddly amusing. He always says it's nice to know if the whole hetro thing doesn't work out that he's got options. *g*

Wow, thanks for the story adn I love your son. Uh, how old is he again? I have a neice, gorgeous girl, college graduate... very smart except when it comes to the idiots she gets involved with.

Hey, don't be givin' me kids!

[cindilu2]

FYI for fans who becamse fans after 2003

The clayboard store is having a sale. They used to charge a lot for things, but now there are out of print copies for not much off of cost.

They have BTOW single for $7 and WTWNN for $8 - I don't want to tell you what I had to go therough to get a cracked sealed copy, these are nre.

store you are not going to get these too many opther places for this price.

I guess they must have bought a boatload.

Disclaimer: I have nothing to do with selling this stuff, I just think it is worth looking into if you want a copy and missed it.

Wow, this is neat. I had no idea they even had a store!

Yep. But don't get too excited - they don't ship to Canada. *g*

FYI, the Clingle used to sell on CA.com for $20

I would love the WTWNN just because the 'B' side is one of my favorite things.

[playbiller]

If someone wants to have me order it for them and to pass it on with a little added for shipping, just let me know.

I am still at home, waiting for yet anotehr doctor';'s appointment, which is the extent that I will discuss this disgusting thng. I am hoping to finally get my packed up car down the beach this afternoon.

[Clayzorback]

I think one of the reasons Clay's sexual identification is so fascinating to pop culture is that to accept that he's straight might prove that people's gaydar is BS--and that bugs people. They want to feel that they can tell these things by looking at somebody, but life just isn't that simple.

jmh I think another reason Clay's sexuality causes such controversy, among some fans , is because, if he were, they could no longer support him. Because they believe that is a sin. It goes against their religious beliefs. So they have to smack down anyone that even hints that it might be a possibility he is.

I have seen some people I've been posting with for several years now slowly turn into paranoid, bitter people I don't even recognize. The fandom has apparently ceased to be a source of light hearted fun and celebration for them a long time ago. They've spent so much time dwelling in the muck and mire, keeping up with all the haters and swamp dwellers, that they believe that the entire world is an ugly, hateful place. It's amazing how trivial all the "hater" activity is when you just stop looking for it.

I have heard this same story from more than one fan, FullyFunctional, who has said exactly what you have just said.

Why do some people feel the need to be driven so hard to keep looking for crap in all the wrong places? How do they find the time? Reminds me of this saying. "If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?"

Cindilu...I do think that Clayzor was mostly talking about the people that are fan policing and harassing other Clay fans. I do believe that they may be motivated by more than concern for Clay. That kind of behavior comes from a hateful place IMO.

Thank you Ansamcw for clarifying my post. I thought I was clearly speaking of some of the members of Chexxxy's Place, and their agendas, and not everyone else. I was not trying tp paint the entire fandom with a broad brush stroke. Sorry if I offended anyone. Try as I might to be articulate, I seem to fail at it and offend someone everytime. LOL

To further clarify. I am not gay. I am not a member of The Openly Clay Board. I am not a lurker there. I don't even a have their link, or a desire for it. I am not supporting the antagonistic posts, that some of them make on Clay's board either. I wish they would stop it, because it just hurts their cause and it hurts the overall atmosphere of Clay's board. However, I can understand, to a point, why some of them spend so much time in baiting the Chexxy's Place members. They have had every member of their board publicly outed, with pictures and personal information, over the entire internet by these OTT invested "Clay Protectors." They've been made fun of and ridiculed way beyond the norm. Much worse than anything they evr said about me or some of my friends. They have all been cyber stalked. So yes, I can sure see where their hatred comes from. I still wish they would stop, though, and take the higher road, for Clay and the rest of his fans who deserve a better OFC. I also want to say that I am not advocating that fans be allowed to sit around and discuss "Is he? Isn't he. Is he? Isn't he...Clay has stated that he isn't and that should not be up for debate on his OFC. I don't see any positives to doing that either lightmyfire. I just have concerns with the over censorship that some of the Fan Police want to have instilled at OFC. I am glad that Clay seems to not want that either.

ClayzorGreat post! I wish my name wasn't on that board but it is and she won't remove it so I guess I will have to live with it.

[[[hugs]]] jerrijan I think a lot of people signed up when Chexxxy's first opened, just to read and see what all the hoopla was about. Once they realized, they did exactly as you did, left the place never to return. I bet Clay knows that.

Clayzor- I am so sorry to hear about what happened to you as well. I know there must be others out there who could take their power back as well. I will fully admit that I allowed myself to be intimidated until I realized that their whole point was to intimidate.

Thanks FullyFunctional. I'm sorry you had to be a victim as well. Glad you took your power back. I've had unkind words spoken about a few of my friends too, but that is their story. Not for me to tell. To my knowledge I was not cyber stalked, per say. At least it wasn't put in their Hall Of Shame, or posted publicly on their board. However, I have no doubt they know my real name and have a photo of me, because my old home board probably has a mole or two in it. LOL They mainly just despised me because they didn't like my in your face tactics with certain fans. Fans who were bringing their back channel rumors and angst onto Clay's board and trashing his ATDW cd. Some people had it coming and needed it. Respect is earned not an automatic given with me. IMHO The poddies, which some are members at Chexxxy's Place as well, didn't like their conspiracy theories about RCA and Clive being countered with logic and common sense. Bwahaaaa. They blame me and a couple of others for a lot of stuff on OFC and they have accused me of some stuff and told lies about me. Didn't bother me one whit. Consider the source and feel sorry for them, that is all you can.

On to being happy in Clayland.

Singing penis songs?

1.If you think I'm sexy, and you want my body come along and tell me so.

2. When I get that feeling I need sexual healing, sexual healing

3. Sky rockets in sight afternoon delight

4. Your body is a wonderland, it's a wonder I don't lose my hand

5. I must be doing something right, I just heard you sigh. Lean into my kiss and close those deep blue need you eyes.

Dang it with messing up all the quote thingies. Hee

Edited June 14, 2007 by Clayzorback

[Sally]

G'Morning FCA! My sister (a life-long Paul McCartney fan) sent me this link from "The Macca Report"

http://music.guardian.co.uk/pickardofthepo...2101913,00.html

"This week, Anna Pickard watches and picks apart the video for Dance Tonight by Paul McCartney"

If you haven't seen the video, there is a YouTube link at the end of her review.

Sis loved it....I do too!

[muskifest]

He always says it's nice to know if the whole hetro thing doesn't work out that he's got options.

Woot! :lmaosmiley-1: And this is something I could even hear Clay saying, too! BWAH! (Oh, and pssssttt! jamar--never mind about Couchie's niece ....I have a beautiful 16-year-old daughter he should meet. )

And KAndre, I did the same triple take over Jesse Helms, too. I'm FROM North Carolina and have always been embarrassed to share something with that man.

I had an emotional evening last night, y'all. A wakeup call, for sure. Got all kinds of thoughts and feelings rumbling around in this bloated body and underused brain. Nothing to go on about here, but just wanted you guys to know that this place is the first stop when I open the internet...and usually the last stop before logging off.

:F_05BL17blowkiss:

Oh, and regardless of real life stuff....

[keepingfaith]

When I was a kid and would whine or complain ... my Mama would ask "whose behavior can you change?"

Loved your post jamar! And the quote above reminds me of some of my favorites from A Lazy's Man Guide To Enlightenment --

What am I doing on a level of consciousness where this is real?

Love as much as you can from wherever you are.

Go beyond reason to love: It is the only safety.

and my personal favorite:

What did you think it was that needed to be loved?

[playbiller]

shastasheene posted this on CB - I have never seen this after the R&K show interview - is it old? Have wee seen it before?

I think I am getting Clack overload. It is all blurring together

[Sally]

When I was a kid and would whine or complain ... my Mama would ask "whose behavior can you change?"

And the quote above reminds me of some of my favorites from A Lazy's Man Guide To Enlightenment --

What am I doing on a level of consciousness where this is real?

Back in the 1980’s New Age minister Terry Cole-Whitaker wrote:

“What You Think Of Me Is None Of My Business”

I never read it, but over the years the title of the book has stayed with me.

It really is true… people will think what they will, and form their own opinions no matter what I do. At the end of the day, living MY life and staying true to My values is the most honest and liberating thing I can do.

I think Clay gets it too. :F_05BL17blowkiss:

[cha cha trusty]

OK you guys - slow down - I'll NEVER catch up!!!

Back later and I hope I have something to post about.....

On Topic - -How about that Aiken guy???? Rawwwrr!!

:medium-smiley-070:

:TourExcite:

[cindilu2]

shastasheene posted this on CB - I have never seen this after the R&K show interview - is it old? Have wee seen it before?

I think I am getting Clack overload. It is all blurring together

Yup, it's in the Vault under Online Media. There were so many mentions right around that appearance, it probably got lost i the shuffle. He's such a classy guy. I *heart* him.