#36: It ain't my life, just my passion!

[Jaycee]

Just had a thought.....a couple of you have said recently you wouldn't listen to "X" song if Clay wasn't singing it - because of lyrics, or whatever. Do you think that's maybe why his CD isn't selling? Or radio isn't interested in him? Maybe there are people out there not as enamored of him as we are who think the lyrics or the sentiments are cheesy or whatever. Again - it was just a thought.

I don't know how to separate the two things....would I be listening to these songs if they weren't sung by Clay? That's a resounding NO, I don't tend to listen to much new music. Most of my favourite artists are older, don't get that much radio play anymore. But I don't think that the songs suck or the lyrics are cheesy (although I am sure there are people who think those things, which is fine). I listen because they're Clay, and I know they exist because I follow him. How do you separate the voice from the music? I can't do it. I think someone who isn't necessarily a Clay fan, but hearing them for the first time might be struck by the whole package....voice, music, lyrics....too. How do they come to listen to them? They hear them somewhere. So I think it's more of an exposure thing. More people need to become exposed to the music. As for why they aren't played on radio, I have no flippin' clue. They seem to have a bias against him (IMO). But maybe OMWH on AC will change that (if the "fans" would stop trying to sabotage it). Chug, chug, chug. *g* There are other means of exposure, other than radio. I think TV is great exposure. I think satellite radio (which does play him, I hear him in stores all the time) is great exposure. I think internet streaming and download sites are great exposure (think AOL music, AOL sessions, etc). I also think word of mouth is good exposure. Which is why I am not shy about letting everyone know that I like him. I gift CDs. I wear Clay shirts. I have a Clay license plate and Clay bumper stickers. I am a walking (and driving) advertisement.

I have been thinking about all of this for awhile... I guess since the CD came out and didn't sell like most of us, I think, expected. How DO you get the word out to those people that might be interested in Clay's kind of music, that he has something new? How would someone reach me? I am at work during the day, I get up early so I don't stay up late, so I am not seeing daytime TV or late night. I don't watch the Entertainment shows because mostly they irritate me. When I am in the car I am playing a CD and when I am walking I have my iPod. I simply don't know when someone is coming out with anything new. I know about Clay because I follow his career. I do hear about other people here on the boards and I will check someone out if I hear good things but that is about it. Also, when I check someone out and I like what I hear, I am not likely to buy the CD but rather a couple songs that I think I might like. If I do like the whole song I might get others later but still never buy the whole CD.

I think that is what casual Clay fans are doing. They hear some of the songs and they download what they like and don't bother with the rest.

What I am wondering about though is what has happened to the fans that bought 211,000 copies of ATDW in the first week. This was a CD that fans were not excited about, they bought it because it was Clay and bought maybe 1 or 2 copies instead of the 7 that they would have bought! <g> So figuring 2 a piece that is 100,000 fans that ran out the first week. Where did they go? Fans were excited about OMWH, I know that a lot of fans bought a lot of copies and gifted them to friends and family, I know I did, but still only.. was it 94,000 in the first week? Would that come out to maybe 30,000 fans that hit the stores? Where did the others go? Were they SO disappointed in ATDW that they were never going to buy a Clay CD again? I don't personally know alot of Clay fans. I know people that say they like him but they don't buy DC's or go to concerts so I hardly call them fans. The fans that I do know are still around.

Do any of you know people that have left the fandom since ATDW came out? I know that through the years people have left for many different reasons but it seemed strange to me that fans that didn't leave during the mess, have left since and I don't understand why. How do you get them back?I really don't think that the changes in the music industry has anything to do with the first couple week sales, those are fans that are waiting for the new CD and they are going to buy it. I think it does effect the sales to casual fans though.

This has turned out to be long.. sorry! I am not around a lot so I don't have much chance to join in. I end up doing it all at once.

[cha cha trusty]

jaycee - you bring up some interesting points.

I know at least 3 people who are fans, in varying degrees, and have been fans of Clay ever since American Idol.

(BTW - The Wildcard Show is being repeated on Idol Rewind this week!)

One is online, on a couple message boards, but hardly posts or even lurks much now. One is online and doesn't post or lurk much either. The third isn't online but gets the CNN email newsletter and knew about OMWH coming out. Of the three, only one actually bought any music, and that was not a CD, it was just a couple songs (I'm not sure which ones or how many) from itunes. None of the three have actually bought a CD.

They've stated that they just haven't had time, RL and other interests got in the way, or "they couldn't find it."

I just wonder if this might be a microcosm of what's happening out there in greater numbers?

[luckiest1]

Jaycee, welcome! I want to be sure to say that I love when people delurk and post. Because now I'm going to disagree with some of what you said. *g*

I don't think you can accurately compare figures from 2006 to 2008, because the industry is changing. People are buying less and less CDs each year, whether it be because of the economy, or advancing technology, or the ease of downloading things for free. Take your pick. Sure, I would have loved to see OMWH sell more right out of the gate, but I don't think that it sold poorly. And depending on what Clay has up his sleeve for the next little while, it could pick up again. Who knows?

Also, I don't agree with the following statement:

What I am wondering about though is what has happened to the fans that bought 211,000 copies of ATDW in the first week. This was a CD that fans were not excited about, they bought it because it was Clay and bought maybe 1 or 2 copies instead of the 7 that they would have bought! <g>

Sure, some fans (the more vocal ones) may have been disappointed in ATDW and refused to buy it, or only bought one or two copies. But the majority of the fans (IMO) were pretty darned excited about it and bought their fair share. I know I was, and did! I think you will find that we are, for the most part, a pretty ATDW-loving board. *g* So no, I don't believe that the fanbase dropped off because of ATDW. I am not sure that I agree that the fan base has really dropped off all that much. I think it's like any fanbase, people come and go, the die hards stick in there. I just don't think you can assume anything about the fan base by comparing 2006 sales numbers to 2008 sales numbers. I think there are too many other factors to take into consideration.

[duckyvee]

Something About Us

Mental Subtitle: Chick Song Number Two

(There are only two.)

I like this song, but it's the least interesting of all of the tracks on the CD to me. I skip it sometimes.

Favorite Line: "a perfectly perfect love"

That's tells the whole story, really, and I love the way Clay sounds when he sings those 4 words.

[luckiest1]

Something About Us

This is a song that didn't hit me right off the bat like the others did. It's a different genre than what I generally like. But it's grown on me. I think it's a great love song, one for the ages. I loved Clay's QVC performance of it, he was so into it. That tells me he loves it (just my own opinion). And I love when he loves something, it really gives him that little extra spark. So I can't wait to see this one live as well!

Hee, can you tell I'm bored at work today? And the boss is away?

[Jaycee]

Jaycee, welcome! I want to be sure to say that I love when people delurk and post. Because now I'm going to disagree with some of what you said. *g*

I don't think you can accurately compare figures from 2006 to 2008, because the industry is changing. People are buying less and less CDs each year, whether it be because of the economy, or advancing technology, or the ease of downloading things for free. Take your pick. Sure, I would have loved to see OMWH sell more right out of the gate, but I don't think that it sold poorly. And depending on what Clay has up his sleeve for the next little while, it could pick up again. Who knows?

Also, I don't agree with the following statement:

What I am wondering about though is what has happened to the fans that bought 211,000 copies of ATDW in the first week. This was a CD that fans were not excited about, they bought it because it was Clay and bought maybe 1 or 2 copies instead of the 7 that they would have bought! <g>

Sure, some fans (the more vocal ones) may have been disappointed in ATDW and refused to buy it, or only bought one or two copies. But the majority of the fans (IMO) were pretty darned excited about it and bought their fair share. I know I was, and did! I think you will find that we are, for the most part, a pretty ATDW-loving board. *g* So no, I don't believe that the fanbase dropped off because of ATDW. I am not sure that I agree that the fan base has really dropped off all that much. I think it's like any fanbase, people come and go, the die hards stick in there. I just don't think you can assume anything about the fan base by comparing 2006 sales numbers to 2008 sales numbers. I think there are too many other factors to take into consideration.

Thanks for the welcome!! <g> I don't mind being disagreed with at all.

I was only comparing the 2 CD's because there was a lot more excitment for OMWH then for ATDW and normally that would have been translated into more sales, not less. I know that the economy is different and maybe that is really what it is all about. We saw what Lil Wayne sold a couple weeks ago. His fans are the age group that I would normally think are getting free downloads and file sharing but they seemed to go out and buy the CD's.

I admit that I am worried about concert attendance. I don't want to worry but that seems to be what I do, I get it from my mother!! Are people that can't, or won't, spend $10 for a CD going to spend $50 or more for a concert? I will but then I bought 8 CD's.

I don't want to be totally negitive, I just love Clay a whole lot and want him to be very successful and around for a long time.

[duckyvee]

Lucky, your mention of the QVC performance brought the AOL Sessions performance of SAU to mind. I thought that was perfection!

[Jaycee]

Something About Us

This was probably my first favorite but it only lasted a couple weeks and then started slipping. I don't skip it (I don't skip any of the songs) but sometimes I will realize that it played and I didn't really hear it.

[Couch Tomato]

Well I actually can just look around me to know that many die hards are gone and probably for any number of reasons. I've never really thought "we" had all that much impact anyway, even during MoaM... there were 2.8 million other albums that were bought by people who liked Clay. I think most of the people that I know that have drifted away did so because of real life. I saw one of those people when I was in NYC... and she used to be die hard internet and now she didn't know when his album was expected out. However, she did go to Spamalot and I suspect she'll buy his album - if she didn't yet, eventually.

I love ATDW still... I honestly don't think the people who saw Clay on American Idol, the other 2.8 million people would be upset at the idea of a covers album. I think that's reserved for the die hards. The friend I mentioned above - even though she hasn't followed CLay closely in a couple of years she somehow learned he HATED ATDW! But if people like an artist I would think they'll give his new music a chance even if they were disappointed in one of the previous ones. It's hard to remember now, but many were disappointed in every album he's ever put out for various reasons.

It's a beautiful album and personally just feel more people need to be exposed to it. People really need to be hit over the head with something over and over and over again often times before they remember that oh yeah, Clay has an album out. And I really think that Clay's fan base needs more traditional means to be exposed to him rather than the internet.

As for the fandom's excitement.. if you think about it it's very different than the old days. The fresh blush of excitement is really gone in a lot of ways. People don't even seem to enjoy Clay as much and the time span between how long we enjoy something before we start complaining has really diminished. It's just not the same. Think about how booming things used to be and now they are just dead. It's hard to know what Clay fans that lurk think or feel. And I'm not just pointing fingers at all...I didn't go to a cd release party, didn't want to go to one. BURNED OUT on them and big gatherings altogether.

The one thing I wish he could have gotten was Idol..I think it would have made a huge difference simply because that's the audience that fell in love with him in the first place.

[justclay12]

I think that all those fans that have kind of dropped out because of real life or board animosity or whatever could be brought back very easily if they were exposed to Clay's music in some dramatic type of way. For instance, if a song would be used in a movie or tv show soundtrack or on SYTYCD, which is how I wound up downloading a copy of Celine Dion's song, because I heard it there and liked it. I doubt if he'd want one of his songs used for a commercial like Kelly's songs but I think that is how she wound up getting a lot of sales. I do respect him for that choice though.

I do still think that Clay is going to be doing a lot more publicity later. He said he was going to take some time off and do the Unicef stuff and then more promos and so far he's done 2 out of 3. Plus, I still think there is something coming up, some suprise that he has up his sleeve and I can't wait to find out what it is.

[luckiest1]

Well, I'd love to stay and chat, but heck, I put in an extra hour yesterday so I'm getting outta here early! WHeeeeeeeee! Have to do the 3 hour round trip drive tonight with my son (to meet his dad) but at least that means I can listen to my music.

[aikim]

I think a lot of fans just got burned out on the message boards; especially during the whole ATDW drama...and left the boards all together or just lurk now and then, but don't post.

Kim

[luckiest1]

Last post, I swear!

I think leaving the online fandom, and leaving the fandom, are two very different things.

[aikim]

Last post, I swear!

I think leaving the online fandom, and leaving the fandom, are two very different things.

Exactly! That is what I was trying to say; I think more fans have left the online fandom than the actual fandom.

Kim

[Bella19]

I have to add to the conversation about fandoms changing and casual fans out there.

I'm another long time Trekker (Deep Space Nine) - was heavily involved in the fandom, posted on boards, sent info to sites, joined one actor's fanclub and went to lots and lots of conventions. When I was involved, I never expected my interest to wane. After DS9 ended, I was still a pretty intense fan until about four years ago, when my Clay fandom grew very deep roots. My older daughter, a fellow Trekker, always says that I like to be current and, as much as I still love DS9, Clay made my life a lot more fun.

I talked about this scenario with a number of RL Clay friends - some are shocked and don't believe me that anyone's interest would change, others agree because they've seen it happen too.

As for the casual fans, I do have one NJU story from lunch with a friend on Monday this week. She's one of my two co-workers who are HUGE fans of Clay. Neither of them can travel due to family and health commitments, but are eager to hear and see any information and links I send them. They both loved the Amazon videos. On Monday, my buddy Shirley and I were discussing his career and how much she loved the videos from OMWH. This was the first cd I didn't gift to her, and she made a point of saying, "I'm going to buy it because I want the stores in Canada to know he has fans here."

Shirley also made a point of saying how much she loves ATDW and that she thinks his version of the songs are better than the originals - she plays it all the time! Hey, I still play it in the car all the time and it's loaded on my iPod too.

My other friend Cathie made a point of asking for OMWH for Mother's Day and emailed me the day after to tell me how much she loved it and couldn't stop playing it, especially because "you can sing along with the songs." She said she streamed the links that I sent her "with the door closed so that I can dance around the room."

Talking to either of these ladies always makes me feel great.

Oh goodie, I'm finally out of here in 15 minutes and off work on Monday, to lengthen my Canada Day weekend!

[Tijala]

Crash Oh wow, I didn't watch the news last night but just watched this video of the crash yesterday.  I didn't realize it was a Waste Management transfer truck that was involved.  I used to work for the Waste Management transfer station and I knew the driver that died.  I can't believe it.TGIF.  Time for my Good News marathon.

Oh Couchie, how terrible! I'm so very sorry. I remember the feeling of numbness when I was watching the news one night and saw that a former co-worker of mine lost his son in Iraq. I knew this young man very well...we all attended the same church. I just couldn't believe it.

I am not really a music person per se; that is, before Clay, I didn't listen to much music; the oldies or talk radio in the car, that's about it.  Now, I listen to just Clay; sometimes the new stuff, sometimes the demo's or concert audio...but I enjoy him so much that I don't need anything else.Guess that is why radio isn't such a big deal to me; I know it is important for him; but I just wouldn't have the patience to listen to the radio just to hear a Clay song...I would rather put on a CD.  It is interesting about OMWH, when you actually read the lyrics to the songs; they do all sound pretty depressing, but I don't get that feel listening to them...if they were all slow, draggy songs I guess I would have a problem with them...but I do think the CD is pretty upbeat despite the content and I do think that in these times, the messages are relevant.Kim

I've been a music person my entire life. Some members of my family were professional singers/musicians, so I was exposed to music since birth. There was always a very eclectic mixture of music on the stereo. Everything from Nat King Cole, Streisand, Errol Garner to movie soundtracks. I really miss those days. Something About Us...I LOVE this for the reasons ^^...it takes me back to that wonderful music I listened to as a kid.

jaycee - you bring up some interesting points.  :)I know at least 3 people who are fans, in varying degrees, and have been fans of Clay ever since American Idol.(BTW - The Wildcard Show is being repeated on Idol Rewind this week!)One is online, on a couple message boards, but hardly posts or even lurks much now.  One is online and doesn't post or lurk much either.  The third isn't online but gets the CNN email newsletter and knew about OMWH coming out.  Of the three, only one actually bought any music, and that was not a CD, it was just a couple songs (I'm not sure which ones or how many) from itunes.  None of the three have actually bought a CD.They've stated that they just haven't had time, RL and other interests got in the way, or "they couldn't find it."  I just wonder if this might be a microcosm of what's happening out there in greater numbers?

If it were possible, I'd love to see a poll regarding fans like this. That's very interesting. I'd love to know why someone thought that Clay has lost 3/4 of his fan base? What are they baseing this opinion on?

Here is a great blog mentioning Clay in Somalia...I wish other bloggers and media would get a clue.

http://timworstall.typepad.com/timworstall...aiken-on-s.html

[cindilu2]

I think leaving the online fandom, and leaving the fandom, are two very different things.

Amen to that. My fandom of Clay Aiken is stronger today than it was five years ago.

The boards for the most part have become toxic to me - I have almost no desire to get involved. Sure the 'friends' part - the hugs and prayers and my-dog-has-fleas part of the board-dom is as strong and wonderful as ever, but sadly those things don't seem to extend to Clay. Somehow being a fangirl became a bad thing; excited, optimistic enthusiasm rendered opinions invalid. That's how it feels to me anyway, and at this point I can't be convinced otherwise.

He's been out of Spamalot less than two months. Six weeks since his last tv appearance. And yet to read the boards you'd think he had disappeared from the planet (while giving the finger to his loyal fans on the way off). After he told us time and time and time again he was taking some time off. After he told us what their expectations were for this CD and radio play. Fans-as-experts have once again convinced a portion of the fandom that they know better than Clay. His blog might as well never have happened. Even his humanitarian endeavour is generating bad-will and angst from some people. The mind boggles. I'd use the words entitled needy fuckers, but that has gotten me in trouble in the past, so I won't.

I still believe (and will until time or Clay proves me wrong) that there are things in the works for Clay and OMWH. Plans that have been in place all along. (However, I don't kid myself that there will be any self-examination or apologies on the parts of the know-it-alls when it does.) Until then, that mean green mother from outer space will continue demanding blood. Meantime, I don't work for Clay - marketing and promotion is his business. Enjoying his product is mine.

[playbiller]

Heh, I was a DS9 fan but found the boards too intense, somewhat like Clay fan boards. Ha!! I started out on political boards an then I found TVclubhouse, still like that place, although it is almost impossible to read. The big brother board complained about the editing and manipulation of the show, but after the second year it was not so interesting because the manipulation just became too much and the casting went from real people to models and actors from Boogie's restaurant. I love the Amazing race butprefer real people, some of the casts come from Boogie's restuarant. (reality casting central - see top model real world and several other reality shows)

Bumped off the beach because I can't find my 40 badge have to buy a new one when I dry off - it is 10 miles from here. eta - got a new one - must not lose it!!!

My theory is that many of the positive fans were driven from the on-line fandom because of the Fake Clay influence. I have told this story before but I was modded with the exact same oddly worded message from 3 different board moderators - think they talked to each other much? Wish I had saved it because it was such an odd turn of phrase something about me not knowing what they knew. You could not claim ATDW was not going to destroy Clay's career and Clay had to get out of the RCA contract. Some people who mostly lurked just left because they were not happy. Don't now if they follow Clay anymore. I did notice that one person who told methey were leaving because Clay got fat is back, so maybe some will come back, but not if it is not fun.

I am waiting for the second wave, and hoping it is there.

But the crap has done it's damage as well, I am talking to a 16 year old on another board that was upset about Clay and said that it is hard to be a teen fan of Clay because of how he makes the news each time and she wanted him to stop. I told her it was not his fault, but I know where she is coming from

[Couch Tomato]

I think leaving the boards and leaving the fandom are different as well...BUT those two groups are still "united" and different from the majority of Clay's fans that have never been on a message board to begin with. IMO. We are a miniscule part of the equation anyway.

I do think part of what Jaycee was asking how do those people who aren't in tune to everything Clay find out about the album. I went to my local target over the weekend and they did have clay but he is no longer with the new releases or "hot" albums. He was there under his name but do casual shoppers really peruse through the alphabet in all the genres when they shop for music?

[cha cha trusty]

Check it out!!!

Clay has the first four places on the AOL Top 11 now!!

http://music.aol.com/top11?themeName=defau...videoID=2131399

[Tijala]

I think leaving the online fandom, and leaving the fandom, are two very different things.

Amen to that. My fandom of Clay Aiken is stronger today than it was five years ago.

The boards for the most part have become toxic to me - I have almost no desire to get involved. Sure the 'friends' part - the hugs and prayers and my-dog-has-fleas part of the board-dom is as strong and wonderful as ever, but sadly those things don't seem to extend to Clay. Somehow being a fangirl became a bad thing; excited, optimistic enthusiasm rendered opinions invalid. That's how it feels to me anyway, and at this point I can't be convinced otherwise.

He's been out of Spamalot less than two months. Six weeks since his last tv appearance. And yet to read the boards you'd think he had disappeared from the planet (while giving the finger to his loyal fans on the way off). After he told us time and time and time again he was taking some time off. After he told us what their expectations were for this CD and radio play. Fans-as-experts have once again convinced a portion of the fandom that they know better than Clay. His blog might as well never have happened. Even his humanitarian endeavour is generating bad-will and angst from some people. The mind boggles. I'd use the words entitled needy fuckers, but that has gotten me in trouble in the past, so I won't.

I still believe (and will until time or Clay proves me wrong) that there are things in the works for Clay and OMWH. Plans that have been in place all along. (However, I don't kid myself that there will be any self-examination or apologies on the parts of the know-it-alls when it does.) Until then, that mean green mother from outer space will continue demanding blood. Meantime, I don't work for Clay - marketing and promotion is his business. Enjoying his product is mine.

Heh, I was a DS9 fan but foundthe boards too ingtense, somewhat like Clay fan boards. I started out on political boards an thenI found TVclubhouse, still like that place, although it is almost impossible to read. The big brother board complained about the editing and maipulation of the show, but after the second year it was not so interesting because the manipulation just became too much and the casting went from real people to models and actors from Boogie's restaurant. I love the Amazing race butprefer real people, some of the casts come from Boogie's restuarant. (reality casting central - see top model real world and several other reality shows)

Bumped off the beach because I can't find my 40 badge have to buy a new one when I dry off - it is 10 miles from here.

My theory is that many of the positive fans were driven from the on-line fandom because of the influence the Fake Clay people had with board moderators. I have told this story before but I was modded with the exact same oddly worded message from 3 different board moderators - think they talked to each other much? You could not claim ATDW was not going to destroy Clay's career and Clay had to get out of the RCA contract. After I would get edited, I would get a bunch of PMs from people wanting to know what I said or congratulate me for saying what they thought but did not have the nerve to post. Of course there were people who PM'd trash to me as well, so be it. But some people who mostly lurked just left because they were not happ. Don't now if they follow Clay anymore. I did notice that one person who told methey were leaving because Clay got fat is back, so maybe some will come back, but not if it is not fun.

I am waiting for the second wave, and hopng it is there.

But he crap has doe it's damage as well, I am talking to a 16 year old on another board that was upset about Clay and said that it is hard to be a teen fan of Clay because of how he makes the news each time and she wanted him to stop. I told her it was not his fault, but I know where she is coming from

cindi and play, I agree with both of you. It's a shame that trying to be positive gets you in trouble these days. I got in big trouble via PM with a mod over a certain negative poster and was told I had to respect this person. And I think also that not being allowed to discuss various "messes" and being treated like children have contributed to this.

At this point, I'm not sure there's going to be a fall or Christmas tour. I think we'd be seeing some ticket pre-sales by now...but who knows. I like being fan-girly and I'm not going to let anyone or anything prevent me from doing so. I'm not always going to like Clay's hair or something he wears from time to time, but I'm his for life. I'm certain that Clay has projects in the works of some type or another. Maybe he's planning to tour after the first of the year...or another stint on Broadway, or even a movie role. Whatever he chooses to do, I'll be right there with him.

That's just nuts that HD corrected anyone's spelling. I think I saw on some board somewhere that someone's grammar was corrected too...

[aikim]

Agree with Cindy, Luckiest, Play and Tijala; to me; the biggest problem regarding the online fandom is the lack of respect for Clay; his family and associates at times. You can disagree with something Clay has said or done or not like his background singers or how his hair is on any given day...but do it respectfully. It is the tone and choice of words that annoys me.

Kim

[cindilu2]

I absolutely believe there will be a Christmas Tour, provided there isn't some huge reason why not (another commitment of some kind). I also think that will lead into a winter/spring OMWH tour - though that is less certain. Not a doubt in my mind there'll be a Christmas tour.

Couchie, I understand the question of 'what can we do'... I just don't see it as something that is up to us to do. All of that is on Clay and Team Clay. I do understand that some people have the need to feel that they are doing 'something'. I also think however, that that need is a big part of the reason for the angst and the upset. That somehow 'we' fail.

I absolutely believe that the economy and record sales in general is a large part of the reason for the numbers. Nobody could have more promotion and radio play and buzz than Madonna. Are her numbers in perspective given that kind of push? I don't think so. Sure there are some runaway successes, but they are few and far between. I have no fears for Clay's career - he will have the career he wants. Do I think it's possible that the ugliness over the last few weeks is enough to make him re-think what he wants? Sadly, yes. But I also believe that he sees a bigger picture than I do, and that the end game is too important to him to give up.

And aikim, this has always been the point of contention for me. I don't think there is any way to say 'I don't like your mother' or 'you make stupid decisions' or 'your hair looks like shit' and have it be respectful. It's just not respectful to say those things about/to another person. There is no way someone could say them to me and I would feel respected. It might be funny. It might be true. It's surely within people's 'rights' to say it. But it ain't respect. Don't believe me? Try saying it about a board member.

[muskifest]

But he crap has doe it's damage as well, I am talking to a 16 year old on another board that was upset about Clay and said that it is hard to be a teen fan of Clay because of how he makes the news each time and she wanted him to stop. I told her it was not his fault, but I know where she is coming from

This, sadly, is a real result of the media's focus on the 'weird' news about Clay more than his actual music and talent, IMO. Kids are especially vulnerable to peer pressure and desirous of being accepted into the 'cool' crowd. Both of my own kids think Clay is 'just weird'. When he was on AI they liked him---had fun watching him each week and thought his voice was great. But since then, they usually see pics of him in mags or on blogs/websites with captions making fun of his hair or how he looks like a girl (with Hannah in NYC, for example); they read about his perhaps fathering a child with someone closer to their MOTHER'S age (ewwwwwww!) than to his; they don't hear his songs on the radio or see his videos on any shows; the tv shows he's on in interviews aren't ones they watch, for the most part...

So I do believe the "young" fans are the ones who have it the roughest. Just admitting you're a Clay Aiken fan is probably a courageous decision!

I'm still in the wait and see car, myself---for all things. That incudes re: the baby making business and the cd promotion business and the next career move business. None of those things are MY business (but in the case of the baby making, I'd be willing to pretend that I could help him out--he wouldn't need to know THE TRUTH until we'd practiced a few thousand times, right? )...

Bottom line for me? I love the man and his mad talent, and I have faith in him and his ability to steer his own course. He's hawt and sings purdy and does really good things for other people.

What's not to love?

[liney23]

My middle DD liked Clay on AI. She was disappointed in ATDW. Was wanting him to sound more like he did on Idol only she can't define what she means by that. I think AI was sooo exciting... to watch him change and just keep singing the heck out of every song he picked made many think that his cds would be the same way, not realizing that the accompanying excitement wouldn't be there and that has affected the number of people buying his cds. Not sure I'm explaining this too well, but I just know my DD hasn't liked anything he's done since Idol and can't explain why.

I think someone once called it the WOW! factor. Clay had it every week on Idol so people got used to it and expected it from him in everything he did. When he turned into a not-on-Idol singer with some WOW and some wow and some not so wow, those who were addicted to the WOW turned to others who could give them their hits.

Those of us who are still here are here cause we're fine-tuned (brilliant) enough to get that WOW! from him without the manufacturered excitement of AI.

I don't know if that made any sense whatsoever, but maybe you get the gist????