#48: He is...therefore I fan.

[ncgurrl]

Sorry, but to me it is much simpler. They will not offer to Clay that which they expect from us. They want everyone to be as miserable as they are. I have no patience with the people who cannot offer an open heart to Clay yet want me to open my heart to them. It would be easier if they were not so damn hypocritical about the whole thing.

[FromClaygary]

CV has been reading Crisis in the book club and it has provided a great deal of insight about why people respond the way they do to homosexuality in general. Not saying it is helping me cope with some fans, but it helps to understand them a little better. It would be wonderful if some of them would just get their heads out of the sand and see themselves in some of the stories about the difficulty involved with coming out. Am amazed about how many young gay people are driven to suicide. I recommend the book highly and am only a handful of pages into it.

I am a few chapters into Crisis as well. It is amazing to read a book that agrees so wholeheartedly with my views.......I find it hard to read more than a chapter at a time though, because a lot of it is so painful. I will eventually make my way over to that CV thread and put in my 2 cents.

Luckiest1, where the dickens did you find that sucker? I ran a search for it at Chapters and there isn't a copy within 200 mi of me. Amazon.com is also out.

[claytonic]

Sorry, but to me it is much simpler. They will not offer to Clay that which they expect from us. They want everyone to be as miserable as they are. I have no patience with the people who cannot offer an open heart to Clay yet want me to open my heart to them. It would be easier if they were not so damn hypocritical about the whole thing.

I understand what you are saying .. to a "typical" fan, it is a simple problem that has a simple solution, and that is why I used the "food issues" analogy because it isn't about food, and it isn't about Clay. They do need therapy but like a lot of people who do need therapy, they don't see it that way or don't want to see it that way, everyone has their own agenda in terms of the painful stuff in their life. As couchie (I think) pointed out... the subscription renewal to OFC will be revealing, and possibly there will be some who still need to come back and continue their angst. That's their problem, though, and it only becomes our problem if we allow it to be and in a way, we are allowing it to continue to affect us just as they have allowed Clay's coming out to continue to affect them in a personal way. Everyone has a choice to step back and look the other way. If what they are looking for is attention ... then wouldn't it be best if we didn't acknowledge them? The OFC also has the power to make decisions, to NOT renew their subscription or delete their posts or ignore them altogether.

[muskifest]

Sorry, but to me it is much simpler. They will not offer to Clay that which they expect from us. They want everyone to be as miserable as they are. I have no patience with the people who cannot offer an open heart to Clay yet want me to open my heart to them. It would be easier if they were not so damn hypocritical about the whole thing.

...especially the bolded part!

[claytonic]

luckiest1, can you give us the author of Crisis? I'd like to recommend that book to my friend, sounds like it may help her. (I am not a member of OFC, when I first tried to join, I had difficulty, I think they had closed at that time or something. Then when I was able to join, I was reading - on here - about all the stuff going on there and I decided I didn't want to be in a position where I could be tempted to read those posts. Maybe that is why I am not really affected by them. I dunno for sure....)

[FearofH2O]

Everyone has a choice to step back and look the other way. If what they are looking for is attention ... then wouldn't it be best if we didn't acknowledge them? The OFC also has the power to make decisions, to NOT renew their subscription or delete their posts or ignore them altogether

.

I wish it was that simple claytonic. But I actually like to post at the OFC and there is thread after thread of "how unhappy are you" or "Are you renewing", which IMO are basically to bait posters to complain about the same things over and over. It just makes for an unpleasant atmosphere IMO.

[justclay12]

I've seen those threads over there Fear. I also saw a post or comment to Clay's blog, can't remember, where the person said she just joined back up to post how miserable Clay had made her. Those are the type of people who really worry me and make me so grateful for Jerome. And it is hard to look the other way when its constantly thrown at you.

[FromClaygary]

luckiest1, can you give us the author of Crisis? I'd like to recommend that book to my friend, sounds like it may help her. (I am not a member of OFC, when I first tried to join, I had difficulty, I think they had closed at that time or something. Then when I was able to join, I was reading - on here - about all the stuff going on there and I decided I didn't want to be in a position where I could be tempted to read those posts. Maybe that is why I am not really affected by them. I dunno for sure....)

I'm not sure if luckiest1 is around right now, but it's Mitchell Gold and Mindy Drucker.

Crisis at Amazon

Hmmm....I see it's actually available now. When I looked yesterday, it was out of stock.

[claytonic]

Sorry, but to me it is much simpler.

They will not offer to Clay that which they expect from us

. They want everyone to be as miserable as they are.

I have no patience with the people who cannot offer an open heart to Clay yet want me to open my heart to them.

It would be easier if they were not so damn hypocritical about the whole thing.

...especially the bolded part!

Ah you see, you are expecting them to be the same as you, and in a perfect world, that is how it would be, with everyone sharing the same values. It isn't a perfect world, and I am not perfect by a long shot and I cannot think of anyone who is close to it even if they have qualities that I am in awe of. Not even Mother Teresa who had her own agenda on certain issues that created a furore with certain groups. Yet she appeared to be selfless, the epitome of compassion. Everyone is different, and for me, this situation with the troubled Clay fans is really a non-event compared to problems most of us have at home in some shape or form. Right now, for me to think about being upset with anyone who isn't loving Clay in a balanced way "like I am", I only have to think about the people who burned to death last week, and to think of their family and friends who are left with nothing but the clothes on their backs, and to think of the emergency people (the equivalent of your 911) who listened to the screams of terror from people calling from their cell phones, to the emotional state of a mother who got a call from her 21 year old son who, clutching his girlfriend, died on the phone saying goodbye to his mother. Some things CAN be simple if we put things into perspective.

[wandacleo]

It's always true that there are horrible things in the world that can make everything else pale in comparison.

That doesn't make the whiners any less obnoxious and doesn't mean they should have free rein to ruin OFC.

Sadness in the world doesn't excuse people being complete total homophobic bitches.

[Couch Tomato]

I know I'm not perfect. I have my issues but just because I'm imperfect doesn't mean I have to step back and not call crazy crazy. I have no angst over these people but I'm not going to act like they aren't there either when it comes up.In this fandom we like to keep that ugly stuff hidden like it doesn't exist - that's why baby mama and her gang got away with crap for so long. But some of these people clearly want people to join them in being upset with Clay - I got a long ass tome from some woman about how much she did for Clay and how he lied and used her for years and only came out because he had a relationship he was tired of hiding and it had nothing to do with Parker. Well, I call bullshit on that and the more that kind of talk just goes by without somebody saying that it is YOU who are whacked the longer they will be around to bring another person into their fold. And frankly it we were only allowed to be engaged about things of utmost world importance than this board wouldn't exist. The world however doesn't work that way - thank god.

What gets me about this letter is that it she didn't know me from adam. It was very obviously a chain letter that she is sending out to god knows who. And her two posts on this board were nonsensical and didn't even make much sense yet she found a way to put together a 10 paragraph dissertation on Clay's failings. And every time some new "reveal" happens this woman and who knows how many others will relieve some fresh silly pain all over again and then of course add a new paragraph to her tome.

[Clayzy]

Not to randomly change the subject or anything (mostly because everything I think has already been said, so no need to be repetitive ) but does anyone know anything about a good audio-from-video ripping software program? I'm computer illiterate, but I'd like to take some of my video-only Clack and be able to listen to it in my car, so I need a (hopefully) easy to use program... Anyone know?

ETA: Whee! Thanks, keepingfaith!

[keepingfaith]

does anyone know anything about a good audio-from-video ripping software program?

I use the Video mp3 Extractor. It's freeware and can be downloaded here:

http://www.geovid.com/Video_mp3_Extractor

[ncgurrl]

Sorry, but to me it is much simpler.

They will not offer to Clay that which they expect from us

. They want everyone to be as miserable as they are.

I have no patience with the people who cannot offer an open heart to Clay yet want me to open my heart to them.

It would be easier if they were not so damn hypocritical about the whole thing.

...especially the bolded part!

Ah you see, you are expecting them to be the same as you, and in a perfect world, that is how it would be, with everyone sharing the same values. It isn't a perfect world, and I am not perfect by a long shot and I cannot think of anyone who is close to it even if they have qualities that I am in awe of. Not even Mother Teresa who had her own agenda on certain issues that created a furore with certain groups. Yet she appeared to be selfless, the epitome of compassion. Everyone is different, and for me, this situation with the troubled Clay fans is really a non-event compared to problems most of us have at home in some shape or form. Right now, for me to think about being upset with anyone who isn't loving Clay in a balanced way "like I am", I only have to think about the people who burned to death last week, and to think of their family and friends who are left with nothing but the clothes on their backs, and to think of the emergency people (the equivalent of your 911) who listened to the screams of terror from people calling from their cell phones, to the emotional state of a mother who got a call from her 21 year old son who, clutching his girlfriend, died on the phone saying goodbye to his mother. Some things CAN be simple if we put things into perspective.

Your examples make no sense to me as they have no relationship, in my mind, to some fan wanting attention and sympathy for being a Clay hater.

ETA Neither does your conclusion about what I said.

[Clayzy]

I think claytonic is just saying that there are bigger things in the world to expend energy on.

But it's midnight and my brain may not be working properly, so. Don't take my word for it!

[wandacleo]

There ARE bigger things to think about. But message boards and fanclubs are not CNN. There's a place for the miseries of the world and a place for escape. THIS is supposed to be fun. I have plenty of anxieties in real life to worry about.

[claytonic]

It's always true that there are horrible things in the world that can make everything else pale in comparison. That doesn't make the whiners any less obnoxious and doesn't mean they should have free rein to ruin OFC.

Sadness in the world doesn't excuse people being complete total homophobic

bitches

.

Of course that is true, but why let it bother you, it is THEIR problem, they are living with the misery of having a closed mind and heart. Why allow it to perpetuate the angst in yourself over THEIR problem. I don't see Clay weeping over it, in fact, he appears to be getting on immensely well with the life he wanted for himself. So I take my lead from him and allow people to be who they are, and if they are important to me, I will be there for them IF they want me to be, just as I hope they will be there for me when I hit a bump in the road and get stuck for a while.

Recently, I posted MY angst about going to a blog site that covered those photobooth pics, and all the horrible comments that were made. I was upset because I felt they were wrong and unfair and how dare they hurt Clay.

I brought my distress into THIS board, and couchie pretty much said (paraphrasing) sh*t comments happen, she reminded me that I frequent YouTube and I read stuff about Obama, and that was very true, it's the same thing. I could drive myself crazy being upset with some of the things I get sent about Obama but unless I know the person and know I can have a decent exchange of communication with them, thrash their email.

I also realized that there will ALWAYS and FOREVER be people who don't like Clay and nothing anyone says or does will change that, I am talking about people who have some kind of agenda about hating Clay, not the people who don't like him just because they prefer heavy metal or something....

When I stopped reading those comments, I stopped having anything to feel protective about regarding Clay. Clay is the last person I need to worry about, in fact, yet again, he has shown me in his subtle way, what matters, and what truly doesn't. It is all about choices and those of us living in the developed world have many choices, even though it doesn't always seem that way.

[wandacleo]

Look--I'm NOT angsting. I don't worry about Clay one bit. I simply find these whiners and bitches and complainers sickening.

That's different from angst--it's pissification.

It's not something I'm losing sleep over--just clarifying a point. It's pretty much a fact that they have poisoned the OFC--and I find that disgusting.

[Clayzy]

*pounds head against a wall*

Does anyone know where on earth videos are typically saved to in iTunes? I can't find them to convert them... I tried the library, but it's just showing me music... Yeah, completely computer-illiterate. That's me. Argh!

[claytonic]

Your examples make no sense to me as they have no relationship, in my mind, to some fan wanting attention and sympathy for being a Clay hater.

ETA Neither does your conclusion about what I said.

It makes no sense to you because you see things differently. Some of the clearest examples are made with analogies, where there is no relationship with the actual subject, it works better to remove oneself from the emotional factor and use clear cut examples.

ETA:

By getting upset or annoyed with a situation I can't control is giving that situation more power than it deserves. And yes, we are all here for fun, the enjoyment of being part of the appreciation of Clay, and that is a choice we make. The more we expend our energy to something negative, the more power we give it. Truly, Clay appears to be well and happy and I choose to allow that to influence my happiness in Clay nation, not the bunch of people that Clay has chosen not to expel. He must have a reason for allowing those people to exist at his official home on the net and I think it is better to accept his choice in the matter and and make the best of it by not reacting to stuff that distorts our experience.

[wandacleo]

*pounds head against a wall*

Does anyone know where on earth videos are typically saved to in iTunes? I can't find them to convert them... I tried the library, but it's just showing me music... Yeah, completely computer-illiterate. That's me. Argh!

Well, I have a Mac, so if you have a PC it might look a little different, but under "Library" I have a listing that says "Music," and under that is "movies" and that's where the movies are.

[FromClaygary]

I got a long ass tome from some woman about how much she did for Clay and how he lied and used her for years and only came out because he had a relationship he was tired of hiding and it had nothing to do with Parker. Well, I call bullshit on that and the more that kind of talk just goes by without somebody saying that it is YOU who are whacked the longer they will be around to bring another person into their fold. And frankly it we were only allowed to be engaged about things of utmost world importance than this board wouldn't exist. The world however doesn't work that way - thank god.

What gets me about this letter is that it she didn't know me from adam. It was very obviously a chain letter that she is sending out to god knows who. And her two posts on this board were nonsensical and didn't even make much sense yet she found a way to put together a 10 paragraph dissertation on Clay's failings. And every time some new "reveal" happens this woman and who knows how many others will relieve some fresh silly pain all over again and then of course add a new paragraph to her tome.

Unfortunately, I DO know this person from Adam...and I can absolutely guarantee you that NOTHING she has ever done was for Clay or anyone else~it was for her. In many ways, I suppose we all do a lot of that....we just, in our heart of hearts, understand that is the case. And I think she does too, really.

One thing at least~she knows me well enough NOT to send me that letter.

[ncgurrl]

Your examples make no sense to me as they have no relationship, in my mind, to some fan wanting attention and sympathy for being a Clay hater.

ETA Neither does your conclusion about what I said.

It makes no sense to you because you see things differently. Some of the clearest examples are made with analogies, where there is no relationship with the actual subject, it works better to remove oneself from the emotional factor and use clear cut examples.

I guess I know when I've be told.

[Clayzy]

*pounds head against a wall*

Does anyone know where on earth videos are typically saved to in iTunes? I can't find them to convert them... I tried the library, but it's just showing me music... Yeah, completely computer-illiterate. That's me. Argh!

Well, I have a Mac, so if you have a PC it might look a little different, but under "Library" I have a listing that says "Music," and under that is "movies" and that's where the movies are.

*flings self at wandacleo's feet babbling praises*

I shouldn't try to negotiate with my computer at almost one in the morning. The computer takes advantage of me every time! Thank you so much for helping me put it in it's place!

[claytonic]

I guess I know when I've be told.

ncgurrl, I am not necessarily saying I am right and you are wrong because your experience and your feelings are no less valid than mine. Just that I am just as frustrated as you are, but in the opposite direction. Hope that makes sense.

ETA: Edited because I accidentally typed wandacleo instead of ncgurrl. Apologies!