#48: He is...therefore I fan.

[Couch Tomato]

The difference to me is I'm not upset not do they weigh on my mind. I don't even read the OFC message board or seek these people out. And really if not for suffering from a bit of lastworditis (which I think is rule number 2 here at FCA - see? not perfect) at the moment I would have been done after post number 1 on the subject. I honestly don't care if people don't like Clay but if they have the nerve to live up in his fan club and send me letters I WILL say say something about it andI do not feel I have to be kumbaya or understanding about them. Frankly I'm just responding to your reasoning on several issues including why I should be understanding about why they are like they are and that there are more important things in the world etc and why that doesn't really compute with me when it comes to this issue or life in general. As for Clay, I'm quite sure he isn't losing sleep, doesn't make it alright for these people to have their say with impunity. He's a better person that I will ever be.

I think you are assuming emotional reactions where frankly I think people are blowing off steam. It has long been something that has worked here. I doubt wandacleo or ncgurrrl are dreaming about the OFC right now and I know I won't be. It's pretty much how we got through 2006 with our sanity intact.

[claytonic]

Unfortunately, I DO know this person from Adam...and I can absolutely guarantee you that NOTHING she has ever done was for Clay or anyone else~it was for her. In many ways, I suppose we all do a lot of that....we just, in our heart of hearts, understand that is the case. And I think she does too, really.

One thing at least~she knows me well enough NOT to send me that letter.

RIGHT ON!

Basically we are all self-serving. I have made the biggest ever donation in my life to the Bush fire appeal, and that's because it makes me feel better about having a roof over my head and having everything I need within my reach.

[cindilu2]

Your examples make no sense to me as they have no relationship, in my mind, to some fan wanting attention and sympathy for being a Clay hater.

ETA Neither does your conclusion about what I said.

It makes no sense to you because you see things differently. Some of the clearest examples are made with analogies, where there is no relationship with the actual subject, it works better to remove oneself from the emotional factor and use clear cut examples.

I guess I know when I've be told.

Well I'm telling you - I agree with you, ncgurrl. Apples and oranges. The people who are still ragging on Clay are there for one reason only and we all know what it is - like couchie said - most are just afraid (or not allowed) to call them on it, and so it continues.

[claytonic]

Well I'm telling you - I agree with you, ncgurrl. Apples and oranges. The people who are still ragging on Clay are there for one reason only and we all know what it is - like couchie said - most are just afraid (or not allowed) to call them on it, and so it continues.

It doesn't matter what their reason is. What matters is YOUR reason for allowing it to matter to you. It's not bothering Clay, so it doesn't bother me.

[Couch Tomato]

my mom is so cute..you know that Amish friendship bread -- ok so somebody gives it to my sister. Instead of her doing it she brings over everything so my mom will do it for her. So my mom and my lioness are in the kitchen just a mixing and stirring and measuring and she's almost done when she realizes...she added all the ingredients before setting asside the portion to pass on to the next person. So now we have enough of this bread to last qute a while. And my sister is all concerned cuz she'll have to wait years for someone to give her more batter. LOL. I told her to just google..hell it's probably not even amish but I'm quite sure the recipe will be found to restart this chain letter from hell.

ETA: OK Claytonic..I'll let you in on a secret. I'm a beyotch and sometimes I'm right bitchy. I don't live for this convo but it will come up again the next time Clay blogs and the same people are still talking about Clay lying about lying. And I'll call them bizarre once again. Rest assured I won't go postal in the meantime. And when Clay calls me up and tells me to shut up about it, I will. I don't personally live by his moral code.

[cindilu2]

Well I'm telling you - I agree with you, ncgurrl. Apples and oranges. The people who are still ragging on Clay are there for one reason only and we all know what it is - like couchie said - most are just afraid (or not allowed) to call them on it, and so it continues.

It doesn't matter what their reason is. What matters is YOUR reason for allowing it to matter to you. It's not bothering Clay, so it doesn't bother me.

Then why do you keep the subject going? You seem to feel you've made your point.

And how do you know it doesn't bother Clay? That's a pretty bold statement of fact.

[claytonic]

The difference to me is I'm not upset not do they weigh on my mind. I don't even read the OFC message board or seek these people out. And really if not for suffering from a bit of lastworditis (which I think is rule number 2 here at FCA - see? not perfect) at the moment I would have been done after post number 1 on the subject. I honestly don't care if people don't like Clay but if they have the nerve to live up in his fan club and send me letters I WILL say say something about it andI do not feel I have to be kumbaya or understanding about them. Frankly I'm just responding to your reasoning on several issues including why I should be understanding about why they are like they are and that there are more important things in the world etc and why that doesn't really compute with me when it comes to this issue or life in general. As for Clay, I'm quite sure he isn't losing sleep, doesn't make it alright for these people to have their say with impunity. He's a better person that I will ever be.

I think you are assuming emotional reactions where frankly I think people are blowing off steam. It has long been something that has worked here. I doubt wandacleo or ncgurrrl are dreaming about the OFC right now and I know I won't be. It's pretty much how we got through 2006 with our sanity intact.

Couchie, you were the one who told me how to deal with negative comments about Clay when it was upsetting me.

I took your advice.

It worked for me.

So I am passing it on.

The need to go on and on about Clay fans that can't let it go is no different to the way they go on and on about THEIR feelings. There is a simple solution, but it involves choice. I chose to take your advice.

[claytonic]

Well I'm telling you - I agree with you, ncgurrl. Apples and oranges. The people who are still ragging on Clay are there for one reason only and we all know what it is - like couchie said - most are just afraid (or not allowed) to call them on it, and so it continues.

It doesn't matter what their reason is. What matters is YOUR reason for allowing it to matter to you. It's not bothering Clay, so it doesn't bother me.

Then why do you keep the subject going? You seem to feel you've made your point.

And how do you know it doesn't bother Clay? That's a pretty bold statement of fact.

Why do YOU keep the subject going?

As for Clay, I don't know for sure what's going on in his head except that he made some choices for himself. He has also made some choices about allowing people to post what they want. I accept his decision.

[cindilu2]

Who is upset?

Venting and being upset = not the same thing. Just like Clay allowing things on the OFC does not = not bothering him to read hateful things about himself.

[Couch Tomato]

The difference to me is I'm not upset not do they weigh on my mind. I don't even read the OFC message board or seek these people out. And really if not for suffering from a bit of lastworditis (which I think is rule number 2 here at FCA - see? not perfect) at the moment I would have been done after post number 1 on the subject. I honestly don't care if people don't like Clay but if they have the nerve to live up in his fan club and send me letters I WILL say say something about it andI do not feel I have to be kumbaya or understanding about them. Frankly I'm just responding to your reasoning on several issues including why I should be understanding about why they are like they are and that there are more important things in the world etc and why that doesn't really compute with me when it comes to this issue or life in general. As for Clay, I'm quite sure he isn't losing sleep, doesn't make it alright for these people to have their say with impunity. He's a better person that I will ever be.

I think you are assuming emotional reactions where frankly I think people are blowing off steam. It has long been something that has worked here. I doubt wandacleo or ncgurrrl are dreaming about the OFC right now and I know I won't be. It's pretty much how we got through 2006 with our sanity intact.

Couchie, you were the one who told me how to deal with negative comments about Clay when it was upsetting me.

I took your advice.

It worked for me.

So I am passing it on.

The need to go on and on about Clay fans that can't let it go is no different to the way they go on and on about THEIR feelings. There is a simple solution, but it involves choice. I chose to take your advice.

But I'm not upset. There's the difference. I actually don't mind talking about this crazy ass fandom. It has long been a fun topic for me..just go search the clackhouse with the term Clorilla - or hell, have you been reading here for the past 2 years? I started the thread at CH years ago..even before the real crazy hit in 2006. You're trying to cure me when I don't want to be cured. If I come to you AS YOU DID and say..oh this really bothers me and why are these people doing this and I can't sleep at night..then you can throw my words back in my face. But to me this is just chatter and I will continue to talk about it until I'm bored or you're bored and ready to move on or everyone wakes up in the morning and shoots us.

ETA: and this isn't the OFC. I wouldn't go over there and say 2 words to those people or try to tell Clay how to run his board. If it were me I would have cut them off last year and sent them refunds. I'm not so delusional to think Clay would ever do the same.

[wandacleo]

The need to go on and on about Clay fans that can't let it go is no different to the way they go on and on about THEIR feelings. There is a simple solution, but it involves choice. I chose to take your advice.

You're kidding, right?? There is nothing the same about evil-hearted bitches out to ream Clay every chance they get and the sapheads trying to pretend it's ok as opposed to people who are offended that (supposed) Clay fans attack Clay. There's a limit to how far one can stretch a simplistic platitude.

[cindilu2]

Oooh, what a nice dream, couchie. Heck, I'd pay extra to join if only they'd do that!

ETA: *offers wanda ficticious first-born child* Amen!

[claytonic]

But I'm not upset. There's the difference.

I guess different words have different meanings for people. If someone goes on and on and on about something, to me, they are upset about it. Otherwise, they wouldn't be using up so much negative and aggressive energy to express themselves.

But I'm not upset. There's the difference. I actually don't mind talking about this crazy ass fandom. It has long been a fun topic for me..just go search the clackhouse with the term Clorilla - or hell, have you been reading here for the past 2 years? I started the thread at CH years ago..even before the real crazy hit in 2006. You're trying to cure me when I don't want to be cured. If I come to you AS YOU DID and say..oh this really bothers me and why are these people doing this and I can't sleep at night..then you can throw my words back in my face. But to me this is just chatter and I will continue to talk about it until I'm bored or you're bored and ready to move on or everyone wakes up in the morning and shoots us.

As for 'curing you when you don't want to be cure', when you said all you wanted to do was celebrate Clay, I took you at your word.

Let's get the other facts right.

Firstly, I had ONE experience with negative comments about the photobooth pics, and I mentioned it. You told me what to do and I did it. Problem solved. I was "upset" for maybe 10 minutes, not months. It was OVER.

I never said anything about not sleeping at night, quite the contrary, I am often listening to him singing when I fall asleep.

Edited to add the above

OK, I've only just had that light-bulb moment.

Some people feel entitled to go on about those who can't just build a bridge and get over it at the OFC.

Now that I understand that, I'll STFU.

[Couch Tomato]

Yes people are entitled to talk about anything they please here. Frankly you can continue to talk about it if you so choose. I like the subject and can postho with the best of them. I completely understand your position. Others here share it. But I lost patience 2 weeks after this thing began. We are now entering 6 month territory. I don't see myself softening any time soon. This is a Clay board - there's no doubt there will be people having a variety of opinions. I wasn't trying to talk you out of yours or tell you to STFU - was just unwilling to except your analysis of how this was affecting me and my life.

As for your analogies - they didn't compute with me. I'm a diabetic and know I need to lose weight. I try and I fail. What I don't do blame is my favorite restaurant whose only job is to give me what I pay for or the supermarket for having the nerve to have cake on their shelves. I don't see where people have any self awareness that this is their problem to resolve.

ETA: and I'm up too late...because all the great love songs from the 70s infomerical is on. Bwah..some of these songs were talked about last week. But I heard without you and it made me want to listen to Clay's version. oh I think I will go do that... let's see if I can resist this 5 easy payments of 29.99.

OH MY GOD, David Soul. Don't give up on us Baby. You know...I loved him when I was young..forget Starsky..I was a Hutch girl.

[luckiest1]

I <3 wandacleo's posts. I have no patience left and have to walk away when this particular dead horse gets beaten again, because I know I will break all kinds of posting rules and probably get myself banned.

Luckiest1, where the dickens did you find that sucker? I ran a search for it at Chapters and there isn't a copy within 200 mi of me. Amazon.com is also out.

I ordered it from Chapters online, probably 6 weeks ago. Guess it's a good thing I did! You are welcome to borrow it when I am done (hopefully by the next cluncheon).

We rewatched Under The Tuscan Sun last night. I <3 that movie.

[claytonic]

Yes people are entitled to talk about anything they please here. Frankly you can continue to talk about it if you so choose. I like the subject and can postho with the best of them.

I completely understand your position. Others here share it. But I lost patience 2 weeks after this thing began. We are now entering 6 month territory. I don't see myself softening any time soon. This is a Clay board - there's no doubt there will be people having a variety of opinions. I wasn't trying to talk you out of yours or tell you to STFU - was just unwilling to except your analysis of how this was affecting me and my life. .

Well, my understanding about THIS Clay board was from what you and others have said, that all you want to do is celebrate Clay, and I believed it. Therefore, I didn't understand how dredging up negative stuff and keeping it alive fits into the equation. I wasn't here in 2006 but I was here for the coming-out stuff, and it did take a day or so to sink in but after that I was and am just happy for Clay that he's happy and the only negativity I feel is sadness for those who so far have been unable to move forward with anticipation for "the best that's yet to come".

I was initially answering Fear's post, and since I like and respect Fear enormously, I expected a discussion and exchange of opinions but NOT with the level of aggression that transpired with others. Fear wasn't involved at all.

You say there are others who share my position yet no one agreed with me, and it didn't occur to me until right now that perhaps there are those who feel intimidated and uncomfortable about expressing an opinion that does not match those of the aggressors. Frankly, I almost felt bullied into retreating. If you want me to never disagree with certain members of this forum, tell me now because if there are some rigid unspoken rules, I'd like to know what they are.

As for your analogies - they didn't compute with me.

I'm a diabetic and know I need to lose weight. I try and I fail. What I don't do blame is my favorite restaurant whose only job is to give me what I pay for or the supermarket for having the nerve to have cake on their shelves. I don't see where people have any self awareness that this is their problem to resolve.

Actually, they compute exactly in terms of the point I was trying to make, which was basically, regardless of whether or not you (for example) blame your favorite restaurant for your health/weight issues, no one knows what it feels like to walk in your shoes with regards to your health and the implication from me was that any finger pointing is unfair and cruel, as unfair and cruel as it was for Clay to be thrashed by people who have no idea what someone in his position has gone through in the last 6 years.

So what I was trying to say was I don't know what it is like to wear the shoes of someone who has a problem with something I don't understand.

Hopefully, I am a little clearer now.

OH MY GOD, David Soul. Don't give up on us Baby. You know...I loved him when I was young..forget Starsky..I was a Hutch girl.

OK, on this I agree with you! I adored Hutch and just went to find this song on YouTube. It's there, I'd forgotten how good looking he was and great he sounds with this song.

[djs111]

unfortunately, some parents don't even have the ability to just open their arms and hearts and simply accept without judgment because they are too worried about what "people will think", and so they have their own issues that aren't necessarily visible either.

Absolutely nothing in anyone's life is really something that can be explained away or dismissed or simplified so easily by anyone else. Such a black and white view of anyone else's problems is pretty much always going to be incorrect, dismissive, and assuming that one is absolutely correct and the very pinnacle of what is "right" when really all you can be right about is yourself. Weight issues, Clay issues, parenting issues.

I have not noticed any angsting, really, in the discussions about the People Who Can't Let Go - it is something interesting to talk about, is all. And, like Couchie or someone said, this is not CNN.

Some people feel entitled to go on about those who can't just build a bridge and get over it at the OFC.

I don't understand the "entitled" label - is there some standard or list of rules that I missed on this subject? I don't lose sleep over this, I find it interesting. When there is stuff here that doesn't interest me I just ignore it.

Perhaps a factor here is that this whole not getting over it thing might be closer to home for some people than for others, depending on how long one has been on the boards with this community, and not just something that can have a label slapped on it and dismissed. And a lot us us are, um, "multiple-boardal" - that is actually one of the reasons this board got populated, with people who can and do post elsewhere and are part of more than one community. Kind of interesting, really, the different layers and permutations of what is posted on other boards when filtered through this one. And it is why there is a category for Home Board.

This is not my own little opinion saying "oh shut up and don't post about whatever", it is me saying that the "oh shut up and don't post about whatever" doesn't really apply at this particular board, which is why the martyr stuff (not from any particular person, really!) always makes me laugh - not being agreed with is not the same as being "told not to post" or whatever. That applies to a lot more people than just the people with impaired bridge-building abilities!

Pretty much anything Clay-related can be posted on this board - BUT then we are going to comment, agree, or disagree on it, there is no "last word" on a subject. There are lots of other boards like that.

Heeee.....I am actually a lot more squicked out at the constant need, by some, on other boards, to make every Clay comment into a specifically gay comment, as if Clay has turned his entire wardrobe into rainbow tshirts or something.

Clay did not want to be defined by his sexuality, but some of his fans are doing just that - to them he is not a singer who happens to be gay, he is a gay person who happens to be a singer. I swear I could actually hear the construction noise from that particular box to put him in being built.

To me, the constant need to stress the gay thing seems just as "off" as whatever is labeled homophobia. But that's just me; I know how to scroll.

Claytonic, there is a difference between expressing an opinion and expressing the wish that others would stop posting about things we don't like. You happened to spark a debate, is all - that's what I love about this board!

any finger pointing is unfair and cruel

Yep! ANY finger-pointing. Anyways, we are just commenting. We are not dredging up stuff, we are commenting on stuff that is happening right now. With people we "know". On boards we belong to.

We are still celebrating Clay (looks at all the pretty pictures)!!!!!!

If you want me to never disagree with certain members of this forum, tell me now because if there are some rigid unspoken rules, I'd like to know what they are.

I don't understand - of course you can disagree with anybody, but you should expect to be disagreed with right back. And IMO if people don't speak up and post because they are afraid to be disagreed with, then perhaps they don't understand how boards work!

[aikim]

Good Morning Everyone,

Geez...you go to bed, you miss all the good convos. Having been at the OFC the last couple of days, it appears that the majority of the strugglers have left...at least I didn't see the any of the usual suspects. Don't read the comments to Clay's blogs.

As far as discussing the negative aspects of the fandom; I think discussion is good...too much in this fandom is swept under the rugs or relegated to PM's; as Couchie if more boards allowed open discussion, the whole FMB situation would not have gotten as out of hand as it did.

Guidelines and rules are great, but if they stifle discussion instead of encouraging it, than you have a problem...this is what is great about this board...we actually have the freedom to say what we feel...but because of that freedom you have to also own your post and realize that some are going to disagree with you...doesn't mean you are wrong or that you aren't entitled to your opinion...but a good discussion is about back and forth and there will be disagreements.

Gerbil wheel discussions are the norm for this fandom and we all have to decide for ourselves whether we want to get on that particular wheel or not...sometimes I do, most times I don't, but when it is slow and there is not a lot of Clay news...the wheel is going to get a work-out.

My pearls of wisdom for the day...now on to the fun stuff:

21 Days until Daylight Savings Time!

33 Days until The First Day of Spring!

52 Days until Judge Aiken is holding court on ANTM!

Everyone have a great day!

Kim

[merryclay]

Well, I came, I read and I still don't know what's going on, I think I'll cook breakfast. Have a great Sunday.

Did someone say Clay was gay? LOL!!!

Seriously, in my book, six months is long enough for most anything. Wars have been fought in less time.

[FearofH2O]

You say there are others who share my position yet no one agreed with me, and it didn't occur to me until right now that perhaps there are those who feel intimidated and uncomfortable about expressing an opinion that does not match those of the aggressors. Frankly, I almost felt bullied into retreating. If you want me to never disagree with certain members of this forum, tell me now because if there are some rigid unspoken rules, I'd like to know what they are.

claytonic

I'm just too lazy to argue. I just read and nod my head. Good thing the Clay boards don't depend on my to keep up the discussions.

<snip>

Heeee.....I am actually a lot more squicked out at the constant need, by some, on other boards, to make every Clay comment into a specifically gay comment, as if Clay has turned his entire wardrobe into rainbow tshirts or something.

Clay did not want to be defined by his sexuality, but some of his fans are doing just that - to them he is not a singer who happens to be gay, he is a gay person who happens to be a singer. I swear I could actually hear the construction noise from that particular box to put him in being built.

To me, the constant need to stress the gay thing seems just as "off" as whatever is labeled homophobia. But that's just me; I know how to scroll.

Although I agree and disagree with some of what you say, I just picked one. (See above about me being too lazy)

Of the people that I know are gay, their sexuality has not ever been a topic of discussion. We talked politics, career goals, religion and family. I don't think I ever talked about being straight with anyone either. Well except for my best friend in college, but jeez we shared a bed when traveling so eventually we discussed everything.

I do think for some fans it is a new topic so being gay will be discussed until who knows when. I want to hear career plans. I'm leaving Clay's personal life to himself but if he wants to come over and have dinner with us, I'll talk about anything he wants to discuss. And he can bring with him anyone he wants to.

I'd better enter that HGTV sweepstakes or I'm in trouble. Per my husband. I don't know why he would want another house.

[georgiesmybaby]

It's been a rough week. I'm still struggling with family issues and trying to find some way to save the house.

And one of my dearest friends, our own Claylove, moved back to her home this past week....which unfortunately happens to be on the opposite coast from NC. Claylove is an amazing person and a loyal friend. The west coast fans are fortunate to be getting her back. Take good care of her, k? Logically, I know she's where she belongs, in Cali with her family; and I know that she's right where she really needs to be at this time; but my heart already misses her terribly...there was such comfort in knowing that she was just down the road.

I guess this contributes to the gerbil wheel, but I have no problem with fans who are genuinely grappling with disparate feelings and beliefs but are still respectful of Clay and others. The infamous "support" board, however, is in another category altogether. The only thing that board supports is the constant reviling and bashing of Clay Aiken. I do not think a lot of them will "build a bridge and get over it." Not anytime soon, at least.

Their mantra, which is repeated over and over and over again, is "Clay Aiken is not the person we thought he was in any way, and we are so disappointed." Newsflash: That river runs both ways. They are certainly not the people that many of us thought they were, either, and we are very, very, disappointed in them, too. And furthermore, unlike Clay, they had a choice. Rather than becoming bitter and wallowing in recriminations, they could have chosen to simply walk away from Clay and the fandom with dignity and class, taking all of the memories, the joy, and many intact friendships, with them. Instead, they have chosen to be vindictive and "ugly," whether posting publicly admonishing Clay personally, or slinking in the shadows, attempting to draw other fans away from Clay.

I love what you are doing with the FCA TBAF fundraiser, Couchie. Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of money, and I don't have a collection of very valuable things. Heck, the only thing I own signed by Clay is the Spam playbill. I'm really not that into autographs, so the few times I've had an opportunity to get something autographed, I didn't get it autographed for me. But I DO have a friend who has pulled back on her fandom-FTR she'd begun prior to 2008 -anyway she has some very cool "stuff" and has said we can have it for future TBAF purposes.

Annabear, maybe I missed something but puppy supplies...are you getting a puppy?

Fear Hope work is going well

[annabear]

We rewatched Under The Tuscan Sun last night. I <3 that movie.

I love this movie, too, luckiest. Thanks for the recommendation of The Secret Life of Bees. I'll have to check that one out - I remember someone mentioning that they really liked the book.

I am actually a lot more squicked out at the constant need, by some, on other boards, to make every Clay comment into a specifically gay comment, as if Clay has turned his entire wardrobe into rainbow tshirts or something.

Clay did not want to be defined by his sexuality, but some of his fans are doing just that - to them he is not a singer who happens to be gay, he is a gay person who happens to be a singer. I swear I could actually hear the construction noise from that particular box to put him in being built.

To me, the constant need to stress the gay thing seems just as "off" as whatever is labeled homophobia. But that's just me; I know how to scroll.

I've got to agree with you on this, djs, but then there are those who seem to go overboard no matter what the topic du jour may be.

As far as discussing the negative aspects of the fandom; I think discussion is good...too much in this fandom is swept under the rugs or relegated to PM's; as Couchie if more boards allowed open discussion, the whole FMB situation would not have gotten as out of hand as it did.

Guidelines and rules are great, but if they stifle discussion instead of encouraging it, than you have a problem...this is what is great about this board...we actually have the freedom to say what we feel...but because of that freedom you have to also own your post and realize that some are going to disagree with you...doesn't mean you are wrong or that you aren't entitled to your opinion...but a good discussion is about back and forth and there will be disagreements.

Gerbil wheel discussions are the norm for this fandom and we all have to decide for ourselves whether we want to get on that particular wheel or not...sometimes I do, most times I don't, but when it is slow and there is not a lot of Clay news...the wheel is going to get a work-out.

Off to make some Snickerdoodle coffee, do homework & make a few trips to Goodwill. Hope everyone enjoys what's left of their weekend!

ETA: Hi georgiesmybaby! Sorry you're still having a tough time with the family and finance issues. Glad to hear claylove made it back to California safely, but sad that she's now so far from you. Yes, I'm adopting a puppy.....

This pic is from 2 weeks ago, I think. I went over to my friend's house to visit & play with him, his 2 brothers & 1 little sister this week. They're all so freaking cute! I'm trying to come up with a name. Should I stick with "G" names? My cats are Gabbie & Gidget, although that "G" thing wasn't planned with them. I was kinda maybe thinking of naming him Sir Robin.... Suggestions welcome!

EATA: AMEN, aikim! AMEN! I said the exact same thing 6 months ago and I say it again today.

[aikim]

Do you know how tired I am of hearing the phrase "He's not the person I thought he was"...he is exactly the same person only difference is that we now know he is gay.

If he isn't who some thought he was than that is on them...they were fans of an illusion and not a reality and it isn't fair to blame Clay for that.

Kim

[merryclay]

It's been a rough week. I'm still struggling with family issues and trying to find some way to save the house.

And one of my dearest friends, our own Claylove, moved back to her home this past week....which unfortunately happens to be on the opposite coast from NC. Claylove is an amazing person and a loyal friend. The west coast fans are fortunate to be getting her back. Take good care of her, k? Logically, I know she's where she belongs, in Cali with her family; and I know that she's right where she really needs to be at this time; but my heart already misses her terribly...there was such comfort in knowing that she was just down the road.

I guess this contributes to the gerbil wheel, but I have no problem with fans who are genuinely grappling with disparate feelings and beliefs but are still respectful of Clay and others. The infamous "support" board, however, is in another category altogether. The only thing that board supports is the constant reviling and bashing of Clay Aiken. I do not think a lot of them will "build a bridge and get over it." Not anytime soon, at least.

Their mantra, which is repeated over and over and over again, is "Clay Aiken is not the person we thought he was in any way, and we are so disappointed." Newsflash: That river runs both ways. They are certainly not the people that many of us thought they were, either, and we are very, very, disappointed in them, too. And furthermore, unlike Clay, they had a choice. Rather than becoming bitter and wallowing in recriminations, they could have chosen to simply walk away from Clay and the fandom with dignity and class, taking all of the memories, the joy, and many intact friendships, with them. Instead, they have chosen to be vindictive and "ugly," whether posting publicly admonishing Clay personally, or slinking in the shadows, attempting to draw other fans away from Clay.

I love what you are doing with the FCA TBAF fundraiser, Couchie. Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of money, and I don't have a collection of very valuable things. Heck, the only thing I own signed by Clay is the Spam playbill. I'm really not that into autographs, so the few times I've had an opportunity to get something autographed, I didn't get it autographed for me. But I DO have a friend who has pulled back on her fandom-FTR she'd begun prior to 2008 -anyway she has some very cool "stuff" and has said we can have it for future TBAF purposes.

Annabear, maybe I missed something but puppy supplies...are you getting a puppy?

Fear Hope work is going well

I hope I don't get in too much trouble. I agree with the evaluation of the "Support" boards.

I'm not ultra-enlightened on all liberal matters, but I do think after 6 months--Sh** or get off the pot/boards. Some just want to get even, some just want to be noticed and some just want to play games. No, I'm not a heartless bitch. I'm a very niice person. LOL!!!

I love Clay Aiken and I'm proud of him. Clay, come to my house , sometime, if you want to see a real dysfunctional family. You guys are just "pikers".

[FromClaygary]

Heeee.....I am actually a lot more squicked out at the constant need, by some, on other boards, to make every Clay comment into a specifically gay comment, as if Clay has turned his entire wardrobe into rainbow tshirts or something.

Clay did not want to be defined by his sexuality, but some of his fans are doing just that - to them he is not a singer who happens to be gay, he is a gay person who happens to be a singer. I swear I could actually hear the construction noise from that particular box to put him in being built.

To me, the constant need to stress the gay thing seems just as "off" as whatever is labeled homophobia. But that's just me; I know how to scroll.

Oh, thank you!! I wanted to say that several times and just couldn't phrase it without being nasty.

Squicks me out too; and I also know how to scroll. Haven't had a SINGLE conversation with my gay friends about being gay....I may want to at some point, to clarify something or other that comes up from their perspective, and I hope that I can do so without offending...but it is SO not "what defines them" for me.

Good Morning Everyone,

Geez...you go to bed, you miss all the good convos. Having been at the OFC the last couple of days, it appears that the majority of the strugglers have left...at least I didn't see the any of the usual suspects. Don't read the comments to Clay's blogs.

Thanks for reminding me, meant to say~when it was mentioned here, I went and read all 167 (at the time) comments on Clay's blog; of that 167, there were 2 that were from nutjobs. Now, I do realize that really, that's 2 too many....but to me, it seems to be improving. I haven't looked since; maybe they turned the tide. But it was looking good at that point.

It's been a rough week. I'm still struggling with family issues and trying to find some way to save the house.

And one of my dearest friends, our own Claylove, moved back to her home this past week....which unfortunately happens to be on the opposite coast from NC. Claylove is an amazing person and a loyal friend. The west coast fans are fortunate to be getting her back. Take good care of her, k? Logically, I know she's where she belongs, in Cali with her family; and I know that she's right where she really needs to be at this time; but my heart already misses her terribly...there was such comfort in knowing that she was just down the road.

I guess this contributes to the gerbil wheel, but I have no problem with fans who are genuinely grappling with disparate feelings and beliefs but are still respectful of Clay and others. The infamous "support" board, however, is in another category altogether. The only thing that board supports is the constant reviling and bashing of Clay Aiken. I do not think a lot of them will "build a bridge and get over it." Not anytime soon, at least.

Their mantra, which is repeated over and over and over again, is "Clay Aiken is not the person we thought he was in any way, and we are so disappointed." Newsflash: That river runs both ways. They are certainly not the people that many of us thought they were, either, and we are very, very, disappointed in them, too. And furthermore, unlike Clay, they had a choice. Rather than becoming bitter and wallowing in recriminations, they could have chosen to simply walk away from Clay and the fandom with dignity and class, taking all of the memories, the joy, and many intact friendships, with them. Instead, they have chosen to be vindictive and "ugly," whether posting publicly admonishing Clay personally, or slinking in the shadows, attempting to draw other fans away from Clay.

I love what you are doing with the FCA TBAF fundraiser, Couchie. Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of money, and I don't have a collection of very valuable things. Heck, the only thing I own signed by Clay is the Spam playbill. I'm really not that into autographs, so the few times I've had an opportunity to get something autographed, I didn't get it autographed for me. But I DO have a friend who has pulled back on her fandom-FTR she'd begun prior to 2008 -anyway she has some very cool "stuff" and has said we can have it for future TBAF purposes.

Oh, so many WORDs!! Claylove, not sure if you've arrived yet but if so, hope things are settling. Although I know we'll see you, somehow it's just not the same. You certainly are in our thoughts!

And this "Newsflash: That river runs both ways. They are certainly not the people that many of us thought they were, either, and we are very, very, disappointed in them, too. And furthermore, unlike Clay, they had a choice. " just had to be repeated.

For me, that's the crux of the whole thing. Right there.

.....and yaaaaay!! for the pulled-back friend! Nothing less than I would have expected. Now THAT's the way to work it. :thbighug-1: