# 8 My titanium balled, taking his life into his big hands,

[ldyjocelyn]

CG, I hear ya about the latest gerbil wheel. The thing that I can't understand is WHY people feel the need to take it so personally. I understand that it's the music BUSINESS, and that money has to be made. *shrug*

Ansa, I MOSTLY agree with your post. While I do agree that he may not be as totally hot as during the IT -- that's just on the face of it. We really don't know what the negotiators see in the background, and IMO he's gained a good reputation for being a touring master, one who can sell more than a few tickets pretty much by word of mouth.

But this:

If Clay wants to expand his fanbase he needs to either do it with a hit CD and radio play...or he needs to play small venues across the country...BUT the die hard fans can't imagine this...this would be a horrible way for Clay to go cos its a huge step down for him. eye roll here...

I guess I just don't see an "either/or" proposition here to expand his fan base. As a matter of fact, I think this concert tour may be a great way to expand that base. He's playing in places that require subscriptions, and many people who wouldn't give a second thought to attending a show of his will actually go to a show because of that subscription. Then, he'll win them over with his charm and talent. He's also playing places that seem to cater to families...and those families, IMO, when they find an artist they like, they do stick with them (at least until the kids turn rebellious. *g*) Again, the charm and talent will find their way to people. Just my rose-colored view of the world at the moment.

I am actually impressed that there does seem to be an effort to go to areas that haven't seen a non-Christmas concert in a while. Maybe I'm naïve, but I tend to believe that he and his people are trying for some regional representation. However, there are so many factors at play here: venues, orchestras, logistics - not to mention any other commitments he may have. Truth is, he will never please all of the fans all of the time. I prefer to be grateful for what we do get than bitter about what we don't.

Makes life a lot easier when I think that way, that's for sure. Great post Jenna!

[muskifest]

Crap...wanted to say something here, saw some great posts I want to read but gotta go somewhere with my boss in a couple of minutes and needed to say..

After being stupid and wandering back into foul message board waters and expecting to be able to read and write thoughtful, intellegent posts without being slammed for suggesting an opinion that doesn't fit the sheep mentality...

lordhelpus.

[Ansamcw]

If Clay wants to expand his fanbase he needs to either do it with a hit CD and radio play...or he needs to play small venues across the country...BUT the die hard fans can't imagine this...this would be a horrible way for Clay to go cos its a huge step down for him. eye roll here...

I guess I just don't see an "either/or" proposition here to expand his fan base. As a matter of fact, I think this concert tour may be a great way to expand that base. He's playing in places that require subscriptions, and many people who wouldn't give a second thought to attending a show of his will actually go to a show because of that subscription. Then, he'll win them over with his charm and talent. He's also playing places that seem to cater to families...and those families, IMO, when they find an artist they like, they do stick with them (at least until the kids turn rebellious. *g*) Again, the charm and talent will find their way to people. Just my rose-colored view of the world at the moment.

HEEE....I really shouldn't post when I'm all hot under the collar. I guess I was still in argument mode with some people elsewhere. When I am talking about expanding the fanbase...I meant geographically. I guess people were arguing that when he keeps catering to his strong market and neglect certain parts of the country...he fails to expand his fanbase in those areas. They die out and in the end it becomes harder for him to book concerts there cos there isn't much interest...but there won;t be interest if they don't go to those market so the problem becomes cyclical. That is why I say he either needs a big hit and radio play so that interest in him goes up all over the country or he can simply get booked in smaller venues, with much simpler set up in these market and build his audience that way. But to go with an expensive tour...and having a high overhead and hoping to recoup it on one show when you don;t have an assurance of a sell out may be too big a financial risk at this point.

[KAndre]

I've been quietly reading because frankly? 99.9% of the artists I like I've never seen in concert. Even if they played here. Just haven't been interested.

So I sympathize with those who need it - but will remain in a good mood until I find myself somewhere outside in a Texas summer...

[luckiest1]

I don't really have much to add. Great posts, Claygasm and JennaZ! :F_05BL17blowkiss:

[Ansamcw]

I've been quietly reading because frankly? 99.9% of the artists I like I've never seen in concert. Even if they played here. Just haven't been interested.

So I sympathize with those who need it - but will remain in a good mood until I find myself somewhere outside in a Texas summer...

That is sooo true!!! I don;t need to see an artist in concert to like them.

[bottlecap]

luckiest1, is your avi from your Gala photograph with Mr. Blindingly White Choppers? He's so cute, and darned if he doesn't know that all too well.

[luckiest1]

Heh, I wish. Us "cheap seats" patrons didn't get a meet 'n greet. I stole it from a pic I saw posted and cropped the chick out.

[FullyFunctional]

YSRN, I related so much to what you posted about your fandom. I pretty much have the same attitude you do. I'm trying to get to a "live and let live" place where other peoples' posts lose the power to bother me. I'm about three quarters of the way there, but I still have a strategically placed Maalox bottle lying around. Though the teeth are fine with me.

Clay is just not as hot as we was during IT. He sold out arenas then because he was billed with kelly and because invisible was a hit and he just got off AI.

Clay hasn't had a radio hit since Invisible. Most people across the country think he is no longer touring. If people are not aware his songs, why would promoters in these markets want to book him...

If Clay wants to expand his fanbase he needs to either do it with a hit CD and radio play...or he needs to play small venues across the country...BUT the die hard fans can't imagine this...this would be a horrible way for Clay to go cos its a huge step down for him. eye roll here...

I have to completely agree with you, Ansa. Much as I wish I didn't. Clay still is doing phenomenally well compared to most other artists, and I wasn't one who was wringing my hands when the sales for ATDW came in, but Clay has lost some fans over the past few years, and if he chooses to expand his fanbase, he does need to work on either radio play, more touring, or most likely a combination of both, as folks who haven't heard anything from Clay in the past few years are more likely to attend a concert if they have heard Clay on the radio.

I remember the early days of the fandom and how many people have kind of disappeared over the last few years. I think attrition is normal- many people have short attention spans or have life changes that make them abandon certain hobbies. Some people had unrealistic expectations of Clay that were not met, and left in a huff. I have to imagine some of them go through this pattern in life over and over. I know some people have left the internet fandom but still support Clay, but many really have moved on.

That all said, Clay can make a great living with the fanbase he has now, and he doesn't NEED to expand it unless he wants to grow his career to the next level. Frankly, though, I'd love to see some new blood in the fandom. I think radio play could help bring in a more casual, less intense (and demanding) kind of fan. I'd love to see the fandom a bit more mellow. Seeing the general freakouts and shaking fists over a single scheduling error is a bit more drama than I would prefer.

So many good posts today. I can't even begin to list them all. You guys rock!

[Couch Tomato]

I've never really cared about seeing an artist live before. Luther was my favorite artist before Clay and I guess I saw him live 4 or 5 times. I've seen Michael Jackson in some form or another 3 times. I haven't seen anybody else more than once.

But just have to see Clay. I love live Clay more than recording artist Clay. He can never record another album, get a permanent gig in Atlantic City or Vegas and sing cover songs for the rest of his life and I'd still be a happy camper. Heh. (dodges lightening bolts), I just associate Clay tours with travel ..I just assume I'll be on a plane.

Anyway, I'd rather they get the schedule together before making any pronoucements even it if takes another week or two. Thinking about all the parts that have to come together to make the tour work I do think it's an intricate negiating and planning process. Some said he should negotiate one place for one date.. I don't even know anything about that business but that doesn't really make sense to me. I just wish they had never posted that date on OFC..that was the mistake and I can't even blame them because I just assume some other part of Team Clay gave them that date as official.

It's so easy to say Clay should go here, here and here and guala it's done. Hell planning the preparty for JNT05 took a few years off my life. It was THAT stressful. But I had enough room, and I didn't run out of food and had enough money to pay without passing around a hat. I know not everyone can say that about their little small events. heee. And yet, still, some people walked out upset about something.

Hey Muski..see you at 6:00...on the dot. heh.

[Clayzorback]

Hee Hey muskifest, are we the only pervs on this board?

I hear you Claygasm and Ansamcw. I never got so tired of hearing about how Clay never comes to California last year. Hell he is in California and NYC for most all of his TV tapings. At least they get that. He has never been to my state either, but you don't see me whining and complaining nonstop. Usually, the only time I ever mention it, is when I am making the point to the whiners that they aren't the only ones who never get him. He has told his fans that he is not in charge of booking the venues. It isn't personal. I can empathize with fans to a degree, but to blame Clay, take it so personally, and beat a dead horse, is too much. We all want to show him that we love and support him. I also realize that fans can't keep spending exorbitant amounts of money to travel long distances to see him all the time. It is heartbreaking when you want to go, participate, have fun, and show your support, but can't afford to keep traveling all the time. BUT, it isn't Clay's fault. Fans just need to understand things. Stop trying to make Clay feel so bad about something he can't control.

I agree with Ansamcw and Claygasm about tour bookings. Money is always a motivating factor. First I think it has to do with supply and demand. They have to find areas and venues that they think they can sell out. They also have to find cities that have local orchestras because they are not traveling with one. Then I think they also look at areas that have a demographic they are targeting. This tour is going to appeal more to the retirees and middle to upper aged fans. IMO I think that is one reason why we see so many tours booked in the East and in Florida. He does extremely well in these areas, for his Christmas tours also, and they have a high concentration of older people. JMO No tomatoes please. I also think that Clay is working on an image change and he is trying to rebuild (for lack of a better word) his fanbase. He certainly could stand to start turning over some of his existing ones, if you know what I mean. He has lost fans, it is evident. It is also normal. I think he knows that it is unlikely that he is going to fill up 15,000 seat arenas, right now. He is going to have to do the smaller ones and work himself up to the big ones again. Gaining a new, and enlarging his existing, fanbase. Slow and steady wins the race. I have all the confidence in the world in him.

I've been quietly reading because frankly? 99.9% of the artists I like I've never seen in concert. Even if they played here. Just haven't been interested.

So I sympathize with those who need it - but will remain in a good mood until I find myself somewhere outside in a Texas summer...

Sweating to the oldies with Clay! There's a weight loss program I could go for.

[muskifest]

I have to completely agree with you, Ansa. Much as I wish I didn't. Clay still is doing phenomenally well compared to most other artists, and I wasn't one who was wringing my hands when the sales for ATDW came in, but Clay has lost some fans over the past few years, and if he chooses to expand his fanbase, he does need to work on either radio play, more touring, or most likely a combination of both, as folks who haven't heard anything from Clay in the past few years are more likely to attend a concert if they have heard Clay on the radio.

I remember the early days of the fandom and how many people have kind of disappeared over the last few years. I think attrition is normal- many people have short attention spans or have life changes that make them abandon certain hobbies. Some people had unrealistic expectations of Clay that were not met, and left in a huff. I have to imagine some of them go through this pattern in life over and over. I know some people have left the internet fandom but still support Clay, but many really have moved on.

That all said, Clay can make a great living with the fanbase he has now, and he doesn't NEED to expand it unless he wants to grow his career to the next level. Frankly, though, I'd love to see some new blood in the fandom. I think radio play could help bring in a more casual, less intense (and demanding) kind of fan. I'd love to see the fandom a bit more mellow. Seeing the general freakouts and shaking fists over a single scheduling error is a bit more drama than I would prefer.

So many good posts today. I can't even begin to list them all. You guys rock!

Fully Functional I really agree with your post and bolded the parts I particularly gave a to..

And Clayzorback....huh?

Hee Hey muskifest, are we the only pervs on this board?

You're kidding me, right? Don't let anybody here fool you. They like to read 'that stuff', too!

[Claygasm]

IMO I think that is one reason why we see so many tours booked in the East and in Florida. He does extremely well in these areas, for his Christmas tours also, and they have a high concentration of older people.

No tomatoes but there are more old people in the east? Ok, Florida maybe, but the east in general? I don't think so! I would love to see the census figures that lead you to that conclusion!

I also don't think this tour will appeal mostly to old people - or even middle-aged people. Perhaps a more sophisticated audience, but not necessarily older. Its not just old people who like symphonies! And this is not a classical symphony concert anyway. Not only old people like covers for that matter!

I think you see tours booked often in the east because there is a higher concentration of people (of any age!) in a small geographical area than most parts of the country. He can get to a lot of places in short periods of time and draw upon a larger population. I really do not think age has anything to do with it!

Now excuse me while I just grab my cane and throw my shawl over my shoulders and sit in my rocker while listening to the symphony on my Victrola.....

ETA: And just because I know you have all been dying for this news, DNA tests have shown that Larry Birkhead is Anna Nicole Smith's child's father.

Edited April 10, 2007 by Claygasm

[muskifest]

ETA: And just because I know you have all been dying for this news, DNA tests have shown that Larry Birkhead is Anna Nicole Smith's child's father.

I just hope that has some beneficial meaning for that little baby's life. What a horrible circus that has all been.

Yes, couchie...I'll be there by six...we need to take Shadow with us again, I think. I also think we need to increase our distance traveled AND our rate of covering that distance. JMO...

(besides, I wanna have a beer afterwards... :medium-smiley-070: )

I'm cracking up over the invisible tomatoes re: old people in the East... 'cause I gotta tell ya...Los Angeles must be in the EAST if the Valentine's Day Jimmel Kimmel audience was any indication of the WEST!

:04:

[Clayzorback]

I knew when I hit send I was asking for it. HaHaHa When I say older people I mean people in the mid 40's on up. I really, really think that is the age group Clay appeals to the most, and who they are mainly targeting. I confess I don't have any figures or anything, of the average age of Easterners. It was just an opinion based on my observations. I did spend a week on vacation covering quite a bit of the Eastern states, last Summer. What? That doesn't count? LOL One thing I learned when traveling in the East is to not stop and ask for directions. Some people like to mess with you & send you on wild goose chases. LOL I'm just teasing you Claygasm.

I do think you can get a pretty good idea of the age of Clay's fans by checking the age of the birthday people on his OFC everyday. It is quite telling. Of course I know that he appeals to people of all ages. I just think he appeals more to an older audience. I do agree with you that he is also trying to capture a more sophisticated fanbase. The orchestra and venues that are membership driven, will help to do this. I'm really excited by that idea.

EDT: Horray for Larry Birkhead. I sure hope that baby will be loved and wanted for the right reasons.

Muskifest, I think the audience at any taping pretty much looks like the one you are talking about at Kimmel. *g*

Edited April 10, 2007 by Clayzorback

[playbiller]

The age of fans - well there are fans and there are fans -

To travel on short notice - you need to have money and either a lot of seniority or no job. = mature

To get front row seats or better -= you need a lot of money and time to play ticket master tango = mature.

Who goes to symphonies - a mixed group, but generally people with some taste and MON-EY.

Got to run (heh) the doctor is sending me for tests today, she thinks I have picked up a low grade infection from the dogs (wash those hands!!!)

Edited April 10, 2007 by playbiller

[JennaZ]

I think that when one looks at his shortage of radio hits, the fact that he's on his sixth solo tour is actually hugely impressive. And these aren't exactly club dates either.

I suspect that he's going where promoters think they can earn money, which includes a lot of areas where he's done well in the past. My guess is that this evening with the orchestra is being sold to a more sophisticated crowd, but the fact that many of these are outdoor venues, to me, means that there is the potential to draw more casual fans. In some areas, the venue itself is nearly a draw on its own, especially where the evenings are cool and comfortable. Many orchestras may bring their own audiences as well, audiences who may find Clay even more entertaining than they expected. I can already imagine him charming the crowds with his wit, and stunning them with his vocal prowess.

To me, this tour sounds like a smart move. No, it's not a rock concert, but how many in the general public really look at him as a rock star? It does promise to have some pop songs, even if there is an orchestra present. I don't believe it will be used to support that phantom album so many of the poddies seem to think exists. However, I do think that by the end of the tour, a fair number of people will buy ATDW, maybe MCWL,tickets to a Christmas concert,and quite possibly, his next album. It won't drive ATDW up the charts, but I do believe it will win him more fans.

ETA - fan age. I do think there are still a lot of under 40 fans. We just don't have the time or resources to travel to many concerts or buy broker tickets.

Edited April 10, 2007 by JennaZ

[muskifest]

However, I do think that by the end of the tour, a fair number of people will buy ATDW, maybe MCWL,tickets to a Christmas concert,and quite possibly, his next album.

Agreed, Jenna! That is, of course, if the dang CDs are there for sale! :medium-smiley-070:

the fact that many of these are outdoor venues, to me, means that there is the potential to draw more casual fans. In some areas, the venue itself is nearly a draw on its own, especially where the evenings are cool and comfortable. Many orchestras may bring their own audiences as well, audiences who may find Clay even more entertaining than they expected. I can already imagine him charming the crowds with his wit, and stunning them with his vocal prowess.

Yep, yep! And oh, how I love the word "prowess" in context with Clay....don't you? :TourExcite:

Hey, couchie! Uh....I wonder if we can make our walking time 6:30? I keep finding things I need to do before I leave work today---leaving for the conference early tomorrow morning...

any chance?

Edited April 10, 2007 by muskifest

[YSRN]

I'm not going to giggle as much every day when we change thread titles. My tab bar is so entertaining.

And so endeth my well thought out post of the day.

[Couch Tomato]

I'm not going to giggle as much every day

Girl yep... the only thing that shows on my tab on my computer at work is titanium balled...yikes.

And I'm all up for a longer walk Muski, if you think you can handle it. heee

[Divayenta]

I'm not going to giggle as much every day when we change thread titles. My tab bar is so entertaining.

And so endeth my well thought out post of the day.

Oh, jeez, Y :medium-smiley-070: , my tired eyes saw "get clit Clay" or something like that. I guess Sanjaya got to me tonite!

[bottlecap]

Are you tired of Gala pictures yet? Too bad, because I came across a couple more from irishbookgal that I really like.

"Huh?"

I just like the sweetness of his expression in this picture.

[pkmiller]

I know it is not up on the OFC but our local FOX news station in Tulsa tonight said Clay Aiken would be in Tulsa. After the AI recap, Clay Looney (go figure- Clay announces Clay) said "another American Idol, Clay

Aiken, remember him?, is coming to Tulsa, July 7th at the Brady Theater. Clay Aiken has released 3 CD's, including a Christmas CD. I am sure it will be a sell out".

(Meanwhile, they showed the totally hot pictures from the photo shoot taken for ATDW.)

So is it "official" now? :Tour3:

http://www.fox23.com/content/links/default.aspx

[bottlecap]

Hee. Latin Night on AI was, um, interesting, wasn't it? As the show went on, I kept thinking about what I would want to hear Clay sing in the genre and I decided he should do "I Need to Know" by Marc Anthony. And lo and behold, a little later in the show, Blake sang that very song, and sounded pretty decent I thought.

J.Lo actually seemed like she was a pretty coach and had good advice. Who knew? And Sanjaya? Actually wasn't too awful, even with his underage attempts to eyef**k the camera. He's not as good as the Master*, but still, Sanjaya was trying.

And I'd be more than happy never to hear "Turn the Beat Around" ever again on AI. It gives me bad flashbacks to Carmen in Season 2. Yeeks....

*See this montage by huskerfalcon on youtube to refresh your memory, if necessary.

[ldyjocelyn]

bottlecap, thanks for the new pictures. Love the sweet look one.

pkmiller, thanks for that word on the Tulsa show. At this point -- I'm not sure what I'm gonna do. I might, MIGHT be crazy enough to change my flights to add the Tulsa show. Not sure how I'll get from Houston to Tulsa, though. Driving wouuld be insane -- but with some Clay buddies, it might be OK. Flying -- more cost. I'll have to think about it.

Leaving for a day of travel soon, to arrive in Florida by early evening! Unfortunately, I think I've got a cold, so that's going to make flying VERY interesting. OTOH, I'm leaving storms and possible SNOW here. Thank goodness. Everyone behave here, OK? (Sheyah, right....I know most of you guys all too well. *g*) I'll try to check in when I can. That's what laptops are for, right?