#15 the Earl of Aikenberry: a man of character and Naughty by Nature

[merryclay]

I think the sliding scale might fall in the category of promiscuity if it sliiiiiides too far. Hopefully we've evolved a bit since 16th century. Maybe those folk songs would be a little bit like some of this music out there today that we don't want our kids to listen to. A small moral compass is never a bad thing. LOL!!!

[Bookwhore]

Welcome to all the newbies. You came on a weekend where the discussion got pretty deep. This was after about two weeks of guh and gah and smut. Heee. And I loved that in the midst of it I laughed a lot too. Some of these topics can't be discussed on other boards because the topic dissinegrates into something ugly. I've been impressed that this didn't happen and with everyone's help it won't happen. And then we can have our say and move on. For me the key is always remembering that most people are pretty strongly set in their thinking so just respect that. Having your say without trying to change anyone's mind or having the last word -- good conversation CAN happen. This past weekend was a great example of that. Thank you all.

Naturally I'm nowhere near caught up, but in my catch-up reading i came across this post and just wanted to say 'thank you' to the mods and admins for letting us have the discussion in the first place and not jumping in and shutting it down right away. It's really nice to be able to have a discussion that doesn't collapse into anger and tears and hurt feelings just because not everyone agrees.

Back to catching up.....

[Mandler]

English geeks majors! Nice to be in such good company.

Love Shakespeare (Henry IV, Pt. 1 rules!)

That's one of my favorite plays. I wasn't a huge fan when I read it in survey, warmed up to it and wrote a term paper on it in my Shakespeare class, and then ended up having it on my orals list as a senior. Fun stuff!

I think it comes down to respect. I wouldn't dream of denigrating their taste--in clothes, art, music, or anything else. Why would anyone feel it's ok to say nasty things about Clay to someone who is a fan? That's just downright uncouth.

*dreams of a world in which all people have this sort of respect* And not just in situations concerning Clay. Man, wouldn't that be amazing?

[merryclay]

I have a confession to make; I've been watching Clack all morning and I'm in a Clay fog stupor. I feel like I'm drugged. He does that to a girl. Anyway, He is so handsome, charismatic and talented. He certainly curls my toes. I really, really want Clay to have a kick butt CD and a TV show. Please, please, please!!!!

[KAndre]

Ha! Kirk could kick both Pickard and Sisko's asses in one tastefully torn shirt just before having meaningless sex with a mini-skirted go-go booted faintly green alien!

I didn't even realize the Lion King was a takeoff of Hamlet - ole Bill shoulda put a catchy song or two in it. And James Earl Jones' voice. And Clay singing ISY. I think I'd like Hamlet much better that way.

I was looking at the site I saw earlier with the 25 most monumental flops and my attention was caught by: The 25 Most Exquisitely Sad Songs in the Whole World. So of course I looked at it - and for most of them, I totally went "wha?" What do y'all think? Part of my problem is that I see a difference in "exquisitely sad" and "fucking depressing" - I like listening to "exquisitely sad" - being all sad (but underneath it all vaguely superior) - "fucking depressing" is just depressing and provides memories and notions that should be avoided at all costs:

25. The River (Bruce Springsteen) - FD. I've never heard this song before and will not listen to it again.

24. Nothing Compares 2 U (Sinead O'Connor) - ES. Prince is a lyricist I like and Sinead really does take this to another level. I badly want Prince to write something for Clay. I would also like to see Clay in one of Prince's old outfits. That would be pretty.

23. No Suprises (Radiohead) - FD. See #25.

22. A Change Is Gonna Come (Sam Cooke) - I love it but not ES. Because this song strikes me as hopeful/determined/ultimately triumphant.

21. Space Oddity (David Bowie) - FD and weird.

20. That's the Way I've Always Heard It Should Be (Carly Simon) - ES. Sweetly so.

19. Lost Cause (Beck) - FD. See #25.

18. I've Gotta Get a Message to You (BeeGees) - Neither ES nor FD. I've had this song for years - and clearly never actually listened to the lyrics before. And am still going "Huh"?

17. Back to Black (Amy Winehouse) - Neither ES nor FD. The lyrics look good but I playhate this chick's whiny freakin' voice. Let Clay sing it.

16. Shiloh (Neil Diamond) - Neither ES nor FD. Cat's Cradle did the theme better, IMO.

15. My Mom (Chocolate Genius) - Sad and deeply touching, but not exquisite.

14. Anyone Who Had a Heart (Dionne Warwick) - ES. Oh yes. Bacharach had a seriously talent for ES.

13. Naked as We Came (Iron & Wine) - Neither ES or FD. Just didn't like it.

12. In the Wee Small Hours of the Morning (Frank Sinatra) - Neither ES or FD. Just didn't like it.

11. Brick (Ben Folds Five) - FD. See #25.

I'll do the top ten later. I'm thinking of exquisitely sad songs for me. Clay's rendition of I Can't Make You Love Me works. Ben by MJ. Unchained Melody. Unbreak My Heart. Nobody Knows.

What songs make y'all feel good to feel bad?

[Bookwhore]

Oh my. This bears repeating.

[merryclay]

KAndre-- How about Clay's demo of "I'm Not Supposed to Love You Anymore". So sad, but hott.

Edited September 5, 2007 by merryclay

[playbiller]

I think the sliding scale might fall in the category of promiscuity if it sliiiiiides too far. Hopefully we've evolved a bit since 16th century. Maybe those folk songs would be a little bit like some of this music out there today that we don't want our kids to listen to. A small moral compass is never a bad thing. LOL!!!

The sliding scale to which I was referring wasthe sexual preference one. There must be a separate one for promiscuity from prude to rude!

Now the Oldie timie songs - well, they put today's songs to shame, but do give me an insight to humor hundreds of years ago. Mostly the songs are reprinted with a lot of *** and you have to guess a lot, when sung in public there is a lot of word substitution. The first white album I recall hearing about was Oscar Brands See first album. I never did purchase it, I suppose I should eventually, the price keeps rising.

By-the by - Oscar Brand has a wonderful tenor voice, now ravaged by age a bit, he is almost 90. He sang for a long, long time because he was not a drinker or smnoker and I can only hjope that longevity for Clay, singing bawdy songs, no so much. Brand also wrote a few songs, some of which are classics.

ETA - just trying to clarify

Hee, I wonder how many newbies are shaking their heads saying Star Trek? I do believe only one person who posted here has been to an ST convention.

ETAA: Oh look! He is still touring at his age!

Aug. 18, 2007 – 8 PM Guthrie Center

4 Van Deusenville Road

Great Barrington, MA 01230

(413) 528-1955

Sept. 15, 2007 Virginia Folklore Society

(202) 334-1701

Sept. 16, 2007 Takoma Park Festival

Wash. D.C.

(202) 334-1701

Sept. 29, 2007, 5PM Hally Wood Memorial Concert

(512) 809-7418

Oct. 5, 2007, 5PM Phoenix Airport

dickjonas@cableone.net

Edited September 5, 2007 by playbiller

[merryclay]

Playbiller, I understood your post. I've heard of this sliding scale.

[KAndre]

Ah well, I don't really like "I'm Not Supposed to Love You Anymore". Clay sounds good, but the song just doesn't work for me.

Toots, as others will tell ya, I don't like Lover All Alone either! I don't find it depressing per se, just faintly whiny. Wait! Let's stick it in Hamlet!

Ooo, can we talk about changing moral values both chronically and culturally? and how a lot of "family values" are a fairly recent invention? Shoot, we've changed a lot since the 19th century!

[Guest Toots]

KAndre....I just popped in to read and haven't really had time to think this thru but "Lover All Along" is one of the saddest most depressing songs I've ever heard. SORRY :5: but I don't like it and don't like hearing him sing it but with some more thought I'll find some I don't like even more.

Old Amy Winehouse is a serious junkie and drinker. Such a wonderful role model for our youth but I digress!

[laughn]

Here is my postition on sexual orientation - I never believed anything was just black and white, but all shades in between. Not only grey, but rose and yellow and brown and green (I do have a little crush on someone called Kermie). I honestly believe that there is a sliding scale in everyone since we appreciate people for who they are and what they do. Since I had my sea chantie stage, it is interesting how the sailors of old could get it on with each other at sea, yet still play in the whore houses on shore. Then there is the 16th century folk songs tell us about orgies where the partners were not so discriminatingto include treee stumps and animals. If you are interested, I suppose I can find/post some lyrics to back this up. The dividing people into gay/not gay is mostly new to this planet.

Instead of WORD, is it ok to say,'God, Yes!'? Then there was that span of time with the Greek and Romans when it was considered beneath a man to have sex with just a woman. Men on men were preferred as men held higher status, educated and all. Art history can be fun.

Ha! Kirk could kick both Pickard and Sisko's asses in one tastefully torn shirt just before having meaningless sex with a mini-skirted go-go booted faintly green alien!

I was looking at the site I saw earlier with the 25 most monumental flops and my attention was caught by: The 25 Most Exquisitely Sad Songs in the Whole World. So of course I looked at it - and for most of them, I totally went "wha?" What do y'all think? Part of my problem is that I see a difference in "exquisitely sad" and "fucking depressing" - I like listening to "exquisitely sad" - being all sad (but underneath it all vaguely superior) - "fucking depressing" is just depressing and provides memories and notions that should be avoided at all costs:

I haven't checked out the link yet, but I'm placing a ten down on Billy Joel's As So It Goes being in the top ten...and if not, it should be.

Edited September 5, 2007 by laughn

[Clayzorback]

I'll admit that some of the things I see spewed from fans toward other fans makes me cringe. I wouldn't treat my dog the way some of these people treat other people.

The is he or isn't he conversation was one I never tried to even enter into because it mattered so little to me and still does. I believe him...that's all I'll say about that.

What I hated most about the crap on the blogs is that they continued to paint of picture of this sadistic, abusive, lying, conniving a**hole...that's what pissed me off but it also made me realize very quickly that they were all in it for the shock value and they have/had a TON of fun screwing with the fans...

No thanks.

I think Clay gave the best advice. IGNORE.........In fact I think Clay fans should stop googling and stop going to the "hater's blogs." Stop engaging the likes of the scum bags such as PH and JP. Why give them the hits? They do love to screw with the fans. Why some fans want to keep obliging them is beyond my comprehension. They make matters worse for Clay by engaging the underbelly. As has been stated many times, nobody talks about this shit in the real world or is even aware of it.

Not sure if this is directed at me or not but, in case it is, I'm didn't get my information from the blogs, but I do know people who have made it their lives work to read each and every word and "report" it. I decided about 15 months ago to not read any of it but that doesn't make what I read disappear from my mind.

ETA: Ooooh...Star Trek the original is my favorite! It's on one of my local FOX stations on Sunday nights!!!

I was only addressing the subject matter of your post. Was not trying to accuse you of anything. Sorry if you took it that way. I also know of people who have spent their entire fandom trying to keep lists of "Bad fans" and lists of "who's who" on these hater blogs. Reading and following every minutia of info and keeping notes. It is sad. When do they ever have time to enjoy Clay when they spend 4 years trying to "protect" him from a handful of nobody people? I just don't understand that mindset. Do you? They think they have Clay's back, but they just can't see or understand that they are not helping, they are hurting. These are the type fans that I wish would leave the fandom.

Contrary to popular belief, the eHP is only mildly violent - the R rating was for other things - I swear! Besides, you only have Solo for proof! BWAH HA HA...ahem. Excuse me.

It's always about the hair! Always!

I think I will do a Regency buck Clay photoshop - long hair, clean shaven, eyefucking, delightfully tight pants...

That photoshop sounds like something I want to see badly. Hint hint KAndre . I love Clay's hair long in the back. I love it when it goes over his collar. So freaking hot. My son made me a cd of some of The Eagles greatest hits. Great band. I love them. Except I have to join jamar in her dislike for Hotel California. I know I am probably in the minority but I also don't like Desperato. Is there anyone that hasn't covered that song? Oh and I loooove the BeeGees............

Hee kandre I bet you just lurve McArthur Park!

Oh and yes Will is my man!

IIRC that is one long song, but I always liked it. Did Richard Burton sing that?

I think I will do a Regency buck Clay photoshop - long hair, clean shaven, eyefucking, delightfully tight pants...

Sounds great. Post it soon, please!?!

Ah, yes, we've watched many a trek show at our house, too. My fav is still the original series. I was GLUED to the TV when it originally came out. It was my after-school activity. Now I like to watch them and laugh at the silly special effects, and sometimes the acting and the plot. But no matter how much I laugh, I do enjoy the main characters a great deal.

Because of that, one of my favorite movies is Galaxy Quest. What a hilarious spoof!!

Hi ho, hi ho, it's off to work I go ....

You know what is so funny? I used to love Star Trek. Boy I never missed an episode. Can't count how many reruns I watched or how many times. However, as I got older and would watch them, I couldn't understand how I ever liked that show. I thought William Shatner was such a bad actor in hindsight. I much prefer him in Boston Legal now. He missed his calling. He should of been acting in more comedies. The man has brilliant delivery and timing. Boston Legal is in my top 3 favorite shows. Grey's Anatomy and Lost being the other two.

Edited September 5, 2007 by Clayzorback

[luckiest1]

Ah well, I don't really like "I'm Not Supposed to Love You Anymore". Clay sounds good, but the song just doesn't work for me.

What is this sacriledge? Clay's version of this song is probably in my top 10 sad songs of all time. So is Bulletproof by Blue Rodeo. Lots more but I'll have to think on it a while.

playbiller, I too believe in the sliding scale.

[KAndre]

For my photoshop, I gotta get home - and start scanning in some of my trashy novel covers!

[muskifest]

Lover All Alone is EXQUISITELY SAD, dear GOD, yes it is and so EXQUISITELY BEAUTIFUL.

Would it be either of those exquisites if someone other than Clay were to sing it?

I have no fuckin' idea, and I don't care to find out. This is CLAY AIKEN'S song, demmit---sad or not. It's HIS and I think the melody is haunting and the lyrics are incredibly moving.

It's definitely one of those love to feel sad type songs for me...

OMG! I'm on top! (Muski rushes to lose 30 40 50 60 pounds so as not to crush anybody...)

Edited September 5, 2007 by muskifest

[Bookwhore]

And as much as I hate myself for it, I haven't worked up the nerve to "out" myself. It's not that I have a burning desire for them to like him, too (although, that would be nice), but I just hate that instinctive feeling to defend him that bubbles up when someone says something nasty. I know it's stupid. I know he's a big boy (pardon the smut) and can take care of himself. And I know I'm perhaps underestimating my peers. It's strange. I have very little anxiety admitting my fandom to people older than me, but to my peers, I get nervous. Through the last two years of college and since then, I've found a grand total of 2 people (in RL) my own age who also like him.

There's also the possibility that my head might explode if one more person makes that disgusted face and asks, "Is he gay?" Once, I responded with "Well, he wasn't last night." Unfortunately, the joke was lost on the receiver. Oh well. It's such a silly non-issue.

Awww Don't hate yourself, Mandler. It's not necessary for everyone to know every little thing about you, is it? I just pretend that I have a mysterious, secret part of my life and leave 'em guessing. I just recently (last week, thanks to LdyJ :F_05BL17blowkiss: ) put up a small poster of Clay in my office. but since it is related to my job, it fits without being too obvious. I used to wish I could just come 'out' to all my friends and family, but my efforts to do so have resulted in angry and hurt feelings on my part, so I'm not gonna try anymore. I'll just keep him all to myself (ok, I guess I'll share with y'all) - it'll be their loss.

[merrieeee]

Bawdy Songs....Carmina Burana anyone?

Lover All Alone is just so sad but one song of Clay's to me that is sad is Merry Christmas With Love. I just tear up every time I hear that one.

McArthur Park was sung by Richard Harris I believe.

Edited September 5, 2007 by merrieeee

[Guest Toots]

Did jamar ever say Hotel California was her least favorite song? That was a wild guess on my part. I also love Desperado but it's a bit on the sad side!!

I see Muski tuned in and threw darts at me.....I'm expecting many more. Can't help it, just don't like the song!

Jeez louisez, suez mez!!!

[KAndre]

Solitaire works better for me than Lover All Alone. Mandy (hush, couchie!) is sadder when Barry Manilow sings it, but Clay's rendition is more wistful (if I'm not looking at him, 'cause if I'm looking at him, it's clear he's laughing).

[Guest Toots]

Lover All Alone is EXQUISITELY SAD, dear GOD, yes it is and so EXQUISITELY BEAUTIFUL.

Would it be either of those exquisites if someone other than Clay were to sing it?

I have no fuckin' idea, and I don't care to find out. This is CLAY AIKEN'S song, demmit---sad or not. It's HIS and I think the melody is haunting and the lyrics are incredibly moving.

It's definitely one of those love to feel sad type songs for me...

OMG! I'm on top! (Muski rushes to lose 30 40 50 60 pounds so as not to crush anybody...)

Use your knees Muski!

[ldyjocelyn]

To recap for my taste:

LURVE the Eagles, especially Don Henley. Dislike "Hotel California" an awful lot though. OTOH, "Desperado" is one of the BEST "depressing" songs IMO.

ICMYLM by Bonnie Raitt -- simply haunting. Love it immensely. ICMYLM by Clay Aiken -- not quite as haunting for me, but I think he was finally "getting" the song by the end of the tour. (Of course, it didn't help that this seemed to be the "I LOVE YOU CLAY" song....)

My other choice for depressing but I love it nonetheless is "Nothing Compares 2 U." A pure masterpiece, IMO.

LAA is beautiful -- but I've honestly never cried during a listen to that song, not even live. And I know it's sacriledge around here (practically), but it's not even my favorite song on ATDW. HYCA or BYLM are....hee.

"Not Supposed to Love You Anymore" -- fantastic demo. One of the few demo songs I still listen to on a regular basis.

Other than that....nuthin'.

[Clayzorback]

Richard Harris. Ah thanks. I knew it was Richard something.

Okay I need to contribute some pics.

For those who love the broad shoulders. That would be me too. Hee

One more......

Edited September 5, 2007 by Clayzorback

[muskifest]

I see Muski tuned in and threw darts at me.....I'm expecting many more. Can't help it, just don't like the song!

Huh? No arrows at anybody, Toots! I was just doing my gushing thang for a Clay song... (oh, and the 'use your knees' advice? but then everything just.... hangs down, you know? )

Yeah, KAndre, Solitaire kills me too but I think I've come to associate that so much with the power note, I don't get so weepy over it...and Mandy? Can't stand it, no matter who sings it.

[Clayzorback]

This song makes me tear up when I hear it.

Sarah McLachlan - Angel

Spend all your time waiting for that second chance

For the break that will make it OK

There's always some reason to feel not good enough

And it's hard at the end of the day

I need some distraction or a beautiful release

Memories seep from my veins

Let me be empty and weightless and maybe

I'll find some peace tonight

In the arms of the Angel far away from here

From this dark, cold hotel room, and the endlessness that you fear

You are pulled from the wreckage of your silent reverie

You're in the arms of the Angel; may you find some comfort here

So tired of the straight line, and everywhere you turn

There's vultures and thieves at your back

The storm keeps on twisting, you keep on building the lies

That you make up for all that you lack

It don't make no difference, escaping one last time

It's easier to believe

In this sweet madness, oh this glorious sadness

That brings me to my knees

In the arms of the Angel far away from here

From this dark, cold hotel room, and the endlessness that you fear

You are pulled from the wreckage of your silent reverie

In the arms of the Angel; may you find some comfort here

You're in the arms of the Angel; may you find some comfort here

Edited September 5, 2007 by Clayzorback